Why I am not a vegan

[Diana]

However,I am saying that the root of the system is profit.(which you did not comment on in my post) The system is there to make money and profit, to extract energy from others(including animals) rather than to nurture and sustain.

So if we buy into the for profit system in any way, then we are supporting the System. In truth there is no us/ them, we are in it together and we collectively support a System that enslaves and oppresses.

I understand your point.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with money or profit. However, buying from greedy profiteering definitely supports the system. It's the greed (STS actions) that distorts the system. I love what you said above about nurturing and sustaining.

The movie, Zeitgeist, explains this concept very well.

That is certainly true. But also the changes that manifest come from within, if it is a true change. A true change is pure, flows freely, is natural and not forced, and certainly not forced by others. So it will manifest as the changes occur within.

True. But would you want to wait for pedophiles to change while your children are being molested? The thing is, the pedophiles will change eventually as they unravel their demons. In the meantime, you would want to protect your children—not by punishing the pedophiles, but by protecting your children.

That's how I feel about the animals (and all life). I would want to protect them from us and our cruelties.

Someone who is vegan might look with contempt on me because I raise chickens and eat their eggs. But is that a consciously aware judgment? Probably not, imo. To me it is a very life-affirming, conscious choice. A way to remove myself from the horrors of the system. A way to help others be more aware and get my family involved. It's been good for us.

I think you might be mistaken there. I certainly would not.

That's why I feel less badly about human suffering than I do animal suffering. (Don't get me wrong here, it's all horrible and breaks my heart.)

Oh my. I think compassion is compassion. the 4D we are creating is a society for humans. Animals will be there, I'm sure, but we have to get the humans up to speed.

Yes, compassion is compassion. That's why it continually amazes me that most humans seem to have a disconnect when it comes to life other than human.

4D is not just about humans. It is never just about humans. What about the planet we live on, or whatever life form we live on in 4D? That's one of our inherent problems—this egocentric view. I don't think that's what you meant, but there it is.

I feel less badly about cruelty to humans because of our collective culpability. You alluded to this yourself in that we all buy into the for-profit systems of cruelty.

I think that means, getting out of duality, realizing we are in this together, and make life-affirming choices which are probably different for different people. A farmer who raises chickens on a small scale, organic free range, who does it compassionately to support his family has a honorable profession if you ask me.

On the other hand, a for profit company who imports quinoa to make profit for stockholders, I am not so sure those actions are as evolved toward 4D as the above named farmer. If I were making an aware and conscious choice, I personally would choose buying eggs from the farmer, rather than the quinoa.

Your scenario is definitely a huge step in the right direction. But since we don't need food from animals to survive, then I personally envision moving away from it altogether, and toward gentler and gentler energy exchanges. This would include the same change from commercially farmed plants (from STS systems) to locally, lovingly farmed, or personally gardened, vegetables and fruits.

In regards to your comments about the human race changing from within, the concept of eating animal flesh is relevant. The brain chemistry, hormonal releases, and cell memory involved keeps us closer to the predator/prey instinct/compulsions when consuming animals.

It seems like such an agonizingly slow process waiting for humans to change/evolve. That is fine and probably as it should be according to the way this existence was created. It's just that more than humans suffer from human evolution. And now we are technologically so savvy we are manipulating genetic material as well as having the ability to destroy the planet and everything on it. The change from within needs to happen soon.