Why I am not a vegan

[Monica]

For those of you who only feel well on a low-carb diet (such as myself),

There are ways to do low-carb without eating animals.

I would like to share with you an interesting quote.

...we would note that not only the animals but the plants also are growing within the creation of the Father, blooming and dying at a rhythm of their own. In a very real way, it is as much of an offense, one may say, to pluck a bean or dig a potato from the ground as it is to slaughter an animal, for you have interrupted the cycle of its life and its dancing with the Creator as you do so...

Q'uo is consciously channeled by Carla, who has her own biases like everyone does. I don't take consciously channeled info as authoritative, because it is distorted by the person channeling it.

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Why not? What is the difference?

What, the difference between someone who is vegan, and someone who has basic human morals? That's a pretty absurd question.

No, what is the difference between having convictions about saving younger 2D selves, in contrast to having convictions about saving human victims?

Are you 'rigid, fundamentalist and self-righteous' for having those convictions?

I don't think so. You tell me.

Then that is a double standard. You say I am 'rigid, fundamentalist and self-righteous' because I speak up on behalf of animal victims, yet you think you aren't those things also in regards to your own convictions. That is a double standard.

Agreed. But that doesn't apply here at all.

I think it does

If so, then women championing rape victims, those fighting to end slavery, or those who helped the Jews during the holocaust, and everyone else helping any other victims, are all 'rigid, fundamentalist and self-righteous'.

Then are you saying we should be tolerant of murderers and rapists? And never try to raise awareness about human murder and rape? (since that would be 'moralizing'.)

Absolutely not. I am not in any way opposed to moral standards.

Why, then, are you opposed to us speaking up for our own moral standards?

Or is it only YOUR personal standards that you respect? You do not respect the convictions of others?

Why do you say 'of course not'? Isn't that a double standard? Why is it ok for you to 'moralize' about your convictions that murder and rape are wrong, but it's 'self-righteous, arrogant and judgmental' if vegans do the same?

Monica you are making a really strong generalization and assumption here. I am talking about what came across to me in our discussion here in this thread, not "vegans".

What if this was a discussion forum about, say, rape? And there were members who said rape was ok? What if you felt compelled to speak up for rape victims, and then someone told you that you were 'moralizing' and 'rigid and self-righteous' for championing the victims?

This does not apply to vegans as a group, in fact I think vegans should stop thinking of themselves as different or set apart from meat-eaters.

Vegans aren't setting themselves apart. Vegans are championing the oppressed...the victims. The oppressors don't like that, just like slave 'owners' didn't like the freedom activists.

We are one humanity and we need to start acting that way. One Earth. One humanity.

Only humans? What about our younger 2D other-selves? Why not include them too?

We need to create a food system that works for everybody and is nurturing, sustaining and loving.

That is impossible while still raising animals for meat, torturing and killing them. That's simply not loving, no matter how you slice it.

I wasn't aware that people sell their chickens. In fact, I adopted 3 old ones that someone needed a home for and that is how I got started with it.

Good for you. If you re-read my original post about the chickens, you asked what I thought and I said I support backyard chicken-raising, and I even explained how I disagree with most vegans, because of my childhood being around chickens and observing that the hens lay eggs anyway. I then ASKED you what happens to the old chickens after they no longer produce eggs, and told you that my only concern was that they may get sold for meat.

There is NO WAY that original post was judgmental towards you! I answered your questions fairly and honestly.

As have you made a ton of assumptions. And it makes a difference because if you are making judgments about people who raise backyard chickens, I don't think that is helpful to your cause at all, I think it really hurts the cause of a sustainable and nurturing food supply.

That is absolute BS. My original post about chickens wasn't judgmental, and I made no assumptions about your particular chickens.

Well, like I said, you could put your money where your mouth is and adopt some, like I did, and encourage others to do the same.

I have been very patient but your sarcasm and continual jabbing are really getting old.

Well we have to feed humans too.

The planet can sustain a LOT more humans by feeding plants directly to them, instead of feeding plants to farm animals then eating the animals. The meat industry is extremely inefficient. This is well documented.

Spiritual people are not blind to this issue. You are making a big judgment/ assumption there and it would be helped by making the assumption that spiritual people care, are loving, and want a better world for all of us.

Been there done that. See the original meat threads, from several years ago, that went on for many months.

I was appalled at the end of it, when I realized just how much denial is here with 'spiritual' people.

I tiptoed around for years. I have been courteous but I'm no longer tiptoeing. I haven't made any direct insults towards anyone, yet several people continue to be sarcastic and fling insults.

I am appalled at the lack of courtesy displayed here. And NO, I cannot be accused of that. I have consistently spoken of ideas and concepts, NOT individuals. That is a fact.

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Hmm... I personally feel that what you describe, Monica (paying people to watch slaughterhouse movies) is an STS act. Getting someone's consent to traumatize them in a way which makes them change their behavior sounds pretty STS to me.

No one is being forced. It is truth. It is real. We cannot 'make them' change. We're only paying them $1 so there's no taking advantage of desperate people either. And if killing and eating animals is no big deal, then it shouldn't be traumatizing to anyone.