09-17-2015, 01:16 PM
(09-16-2015, 09:08 PM)Monica Wrote:(09-14-2015, 12:08 AM)anagogy Wrote: I once read a transcript from a past life regression of a woman that was burned at the stake for her pagan beliefs. As her body burned, her consciousness left the body, yet the body still went through all the death throes you would expect from someone burning alive (much to her chagrin, as she didn't want her captors to get the satisfaction of thinking she suffered). This same soul regressed into the soul state stated this option is available to all souls, and that furthermore, when the higher self sees little to no probability of survival, normally moves the spirit out of the body before violent bodily death occurs.
Just because that particular person had that particular past life memory doesn't mean that this happens to everyone who dies in what seems to be a painful death.
Simple observation shows that many people (and animals) suffer horribly, yet survive it. For example, victims of torture who were later rescued, burn victims, people who suffered with chronic pain for many years, and myriad other examples. Many people (and animals) survived extreme anguish and physical pain. Their Higher Selves didn't yank them from their bodies to spare them the pain, did they? No they didn't. So why would we think that the Higher Self would do so at the moment of death?
Pain exists. People (and animals) suffer. It isn't accurate to assume that they are somehow spared that suffering, when countless people (and animals) have survived extreme suffering, and countless people have shared their stories about how horrible it was.
We can't get let off the hook by assuming that farm animals aren't suffering at the hands of humans. There is absolutely No basis for that.
(09-14-2015, 12:08 AM)anagogy Wrote: Of course we fear what we don't understand, but I think humanity at large would be surprised how "not a big deal" it is from the time/space perspective.
Death might not be a big deal.
But killing is very much a big deal.
...
Pain is pain. Suffering is suffering. When one talks about karma, it is often said that if a person kills another person in one life, they will balance the karma by suffering or being killed in a subsequent life. (This is simplistic and does not take into consideration the nature of time outside of 3D.)
The suffering a person experiences in this life before death is not something anyone can deny. It may be true the person's soul desired it. But the suffering does exist. This speaks to people learning about free will after individuation.
So how does this work with un-indivuated animals? What I can't grasp is why a cow, pig, chicken, fish, etc. would choose the method of factory farming in which to serve and evolve. I get, in a very speculative and theoretical way, that any service is service, and it can be infinite in nature. But no matter how it's looked at, the service to humanity to spend a life of suffering, imprisonment, and unkind death just doesn't add up. Unless we are looking at a planet on a trajectory toward the negative.
If we don't turn this around, assuming there is a dance in play here where factory-farmed (and other sufferings caused by humans such as hunting and killing a doe who is nursing a fawn) are in service to humanity, where are we headed?
And the bottom line is, why would anyone conscious of this want to contribute to it? If humans must exercise free will in a way that causes suffering, why would a wanderer from a higher density or anyone here who is consciously evolving on the path of oneness want to participate? For my part, I have a hard enough time letting humans do what they will. And of course, as has been said many times, one cannot be aware of everything. But I am talking about conscious awareness—making choices that directly contribute to suffering.
Is there anyone here who would buy a (real) fur coat? Is it not obvious that if you did you would be supporting the fur farm industry? Is it necessary to buy a mink coat? It is the same with meat.