Courting the maiden

[Minyatur]

Yet you bought them from those who extracted them for money?

Indeed. And I still drive a car that requires gasoline, which is rarely extracted with "compassion". As I've mentioned, it's a series of doing better than before. I am frugal with gasoline, instead of driving a hummer, I drive a Kia that gets 30+ MPH. And you're right, I probably should be more aware when I purchase stones. Luckily, I live somewhere where I can purchase "locally harvested" minerals! That's a good one to start working towards - buying from the small-time miners who do it out of love for having a "job" in nature where they do understand the courtship dance involved, and not just to make a quick buck. Thanks for helping me with that one.

I can provide more help. You smoke weed? Well you could vaporize it instead of smoking it which would allow chemicals that vaporize at a lower temperatures to not be destroyed by the flame and provide a different high. Imo, the vaporizer ends up paying for itself because in my case it really made me lower my consumption a whole lot, guess that would depend on the kind you get though.

I'm not sure why you speak of Gaia's will, I highly doubt Gaia has a desired outcome toward this, while you seem to see a prostitute I see a mother that both freely gives and resist depending on what her children needs. If she is blown up then she lets it happen out of love and will reform again into something new, I don't see how further cycles mean the earth being blown up, I could see that happen as a counter-measure to the forced harvest.

I think Gaia would be fine harvesting in any direction, just as repeating cycles. Like I said those who want to see the harvest happen are external to it and also forcefully make it happen.

I'm just quoting other channeled materials, including Ra, which state that Gaia is moving into 4D+. I'm assuming this is her will. I speak of it because it does matter. Again, Carla could have harvested 6D negative and learned all those lessons, just as Gaia could let herself be blown up. You keep using the word prostitute as if it were a dirty word, and I assure you that I do not think lowly of anything that prostitutes itself, which is one of your problems with this analogy. It isn't about judging the prostitute, it's about attempting to refrain from the act of plunder - and Gaia being plundered to disintegration would indeed make her the prostitute in the analogy, and us humans receiving that which is "without great virtue".

What do you take of the word "virtue" as Ra describes it in the archetype?

Well I am under the understanding that these Logos allow themselves to evolve through what inhabits them. As such Gaia is moving into 4D because she is made to move into 4D. I think the channelings make it clear that if there was no wanderer incarnating, then the Gaia would not shift into 4D and the harvest would miss and the cycle repeat. Also it seems that the confederation is not able to increase the planet's polarity much without incarnating. That is because from outside of it they need to respect the free will of it's inhabits to send in their vibration, whereas incarnating allows them to bypass this and increase the planet's polarity to a harvestable state.

Anyway my point about this is not to thoroughly discuss it, this is just an example of what can seem positive to many yet feels deeply like plundering to my soul and this is certainly not because I want this see this world harvest STS either.

About virtue, like everything I've been saying, it is relative to yourself. You can feel virtuous in your ways and that you wouldn't be in another's ways, yet that other person vsn feel virtuous in it's ways and wouldn't feel so with your ways. In my case I spoke of the positive traits I seek to hone in previous posts, which would be what I'd consider myself to be virtuous in honing within myself.

I agree our bodies are a world of their own. Each of us has the responsability of our inner world as we grow as co-creator just as mankind was given this place to grow as co-creator.

Though you scoff at the idea of considering Gaia's will? I'm almost certain that the cells in my "world", including those that are independent lifeforms, consider my will.

I think the will of Gaia is to allow what grows within itself to grow as this was the purpose she was formed. 3D is the density of self-awareness, this is a stage for mankind to develop self-awareness as co-creator. Gaia does give them the karma they build for themselves, not as revenge but as a teaching tool.

I still think you can crystalize your heart into a channel unto those higher vibration of love.

Like I said I work on all my chakras and the heart is the one I've been working on most into by far.

That's certainly possible, but this card is especially, specifically, about the green-ray. Not higher, balanced love, but polarized love.

Yeah I still was writing about the green-ray. Higher, balanced love is still polarized green-ray.

I was not trying to make you follow both paths but expand what each path can be. I get how my examples seemed to

focused on doing what seem without love but the point was to find the ability to be able to perform them with love, or rather understanding that not everyone will find being loving in the same manner. My examples were not to always do them, they were more meant to say that if one finds a way to serve which one believes is always valid, then I don't see how it is all that different from plundering. My examples were meant to hint that even if an action is valid a 1000 times, the 1001th time can call for a different course of action because each moment has a different inherent underlying complexity but that to know this I believe requires to use the transformation of the mind, to be open that each moment is unique and although the mind perceives the same setting, the heart through the High Priestess can feel resistance on particular occasions toward doing the exact same deeds that are usually always well, and that to ignore this is somewhat to plunder in my view.

That's why we disagree. In my analogy, the prostitute is calling to you - her face is painted, her leg is sticking out, she beckons like a siren to a sailor. This is what Ra means when he says "Both the deep mind and the virginal mind await the reaching" - you must LET GO of one of the hands of the priestess - yes, indeed, ignore her wishes. This can be your interpretation of "plunder" but this is my interpretation of the Lovers card per Ra. We are in disagreement.

I think you miss that I haven't been trying to tell you that you should plunder anything but that you can still meddle with what you consider prostitutes. They probably need more love than a virginal maiden that has never been wronged.

My example was somewhat abtract, if your High Priestess would call you to do that then there should be a reason for you to. You can turn the McDonald example into simply being called to purchase one particular piece of meat you are called to (reincarnation of a past pet... anything) and rather than eating it, hold it into your hands into meditation to help heal that one particular entity you were drawn to.

Again, this was not an absolute example. Can happen in myriads of ways, someone can offer you one on the street and tell youl it'll be thrown if you don't take it. Then you have to chose between letting it rot to waste and taking in as part of yourself and part of the karma with you. Then again the point is not that you need to do this, just that openness to see love being present in many ways open oneself toward being called to more opportunities to serve.

Again, refer to my previous analogy and quote from Ra. The prostitute is still asking for service. You must let her hand go for the transformation to occur.

Ever thought that a prostitute can be courted? You're not plundering because you give love to something that has been plundered.

Surely but this does not deny that Ra probably had so much more to teach about each card than what was passed on and expressed this process of study to be highly individual if I remember well.

I never tried to make it not about the STO polarity. More that the way and path for me to find STO within myself can differ than what you found for yourself. I didn't resonate with courting but did more with the notion of plundering which is to be let go of, I may have seen it as more abstract than you did because I am aware there is no actual plundering ever taking place and that it is more of a matter of personal feelings.

What makes you think that I'm being 100% literal? I've discussed the ways that I myself, "plunder". I can think of others. Sometimes, I meditate for "utility", which frustrates me on both ends. I also smoke much more marijuana than I would be if I were "courting" it. These are pretty big "infractions" in my book and I'm exploring ways to correct them. It's your own personal problem with the idea that you could possibly be plundering something, it seems, as you've yet to admit that you think you take advantage of anything's resource. Again, the prostitute WANTS to be "plundered", or taken advantage of for her resources - though, there is still an energy exchange. I am not being literal. As you've said, nothing is actually being -plundered-, it is just give-and-take - this is the Transformation of the MIND, an internal process that is indeed wholly personal. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and something has to be abandoned.

Like you said it's my own personal problem to deal with how I feel about things and pursue my path upon my ever changing self, which is why I don't see much of a point to write it out because I know what applies to me won't necessarily apply to others.

Like you said there's no plundering, so to use the transformation of the mind I use my own feedback of my own experience and if I were making choices as if I felt like someone else then it wouldn't allow me to polarize in any direction.

Like I said above, this was more about one particular occasion you would feel highly called to do this (heart) and that your mind (intellectualizing) is your resistance toward it.

With how you are to make fruitful examples, I need the tables to be turned in a way which is much less intuitive. The point was still that you hear a call.

And again, the point is that the prostitute calls as well, you must let her go, because it is the compassionate thing to do.

My example still wasn't about plundering but offering what is required by other-self in a loving way. And again, can you court a prostitute?

When Ra spoke of their own 3D experience, they said that from a standpoint of wisdom they had an overabundance of love, which caused two positive wanderers to walk the STS path upon their world as to offer an alternative to those who did not fit on this strictly compassion mindset. To me that means that higher positive intent found focus upon the negative because it was what their world required most. It was not as they intended, but I still think it is the purity of their initial intent that lead them to serve as they did.

And, Ra had a relatively successful third density experience in spite of it all - they just came and muddled with ours in their eagerness to serve. Are you mad at them? Do you wish they hadn't?

Just like STS entities, they need to use others to advance their own evolution.

More than Ra, it is the brothers and sisters of sorrow that I feel like conquer worlds and worlds for selfish reasons while using selected others as a pretext to do so. That they do this to learn lessons they constantly avoid learning and have no desire to learn, they want to dwell in a positive intent they avoid questioning further to not shake the light they dwell within. I do think past a certain point, this becomes plundering because there is a lack of desire to better their ways of service and move forward.

I do find the purity of their intent quite beautiful, but their unwillingness to learn and desire their to blind themselves to the inherent selfishness of what they do however many times they repeat it again and again, does give me mixed feelings. I still believe most of those of Ra don't do this.

About the fool, as I became more aware I started to perceive why I have been acting as I had up until now, the unconscious reasons to what I was doing. I saw some say that becoming aware for example is to let go of things like eating meat that only takes place because of being unaware, yet I think that becoming even more aware for those would be to become aware of the positive intent which set them to initially eat meat while wondering why it could have been seen as useful and valuable by the them which was most conscious.

Okay, yes, but what you are describing are what I would call 4th/5th density lessons, not 3rd/4th. The Fool isn't here to get wiser, the Fool is here to fall in love. Sorry, that's just the way it is. I mean, obviously you still have freedom to do what you please within all realms in the infinite creation, but the archetypical cycle is about the 3rd density experience of opening/denying the heart chakra - the Fool being Foolish and falling in love. Wanderers being foolish to come help aid the planet.

Like I said, we can come here for myriads of reasons. I am quite fond of 3D and it's veil.

I don't deny that aspect of 3D either, everything being polarized you still need to deal with polarity in whatever you do.

12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? What density do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction.

While I get that I give tool of justification, I believe it is your duty (edit: fate, else it goes against my signature) to find justification to what others do, to allow yourself to see the underlying love in each and every of their action if you truly seek to find love within yourself. So while you can feel that you plunder in acting a certain way, I believe you will find more love within yourself by seeing that others do not truly ever plunder and that there is beauty in what they do always. Whatever we say, we speak of love and light and unity each time we speak of others.

Yes, again you speak of the "higher love" where no one is plundered because all wills are known. But in 3rd density, with the veil, and confusion, this isn't as easy as you make it sound. Wisdom doesn't help prevent plunder, compassion does.

Well if you want to not brush away the veil that is in your face even as you get more and more aware of it, would this not hint toward a certain unwillingness toward something?

Like I said in another thread, I believe each path is the shadow self/light self of the other path. As such STS is the hidden hypocrisy and selfishness of the STO path made apparent, just as STO is the hidden innocence and beauty of the STS path made apparent. None truly containing either any more than the other and I believe this does matter as I highly doubt your soul has an understanding of polarity at the level of 3D native and that to truly unveil yourself is to unveil that within yourself you most likely already are very aware of both polarities being a paradox and that you perhaps have already solved within yourself from before incarnating. And if this is so, then you can extend much further and deeper what it can mean for yourself to be loving in greater ways.

Sigh.... of course I understand these things, Minya. I've told you this. I'm not trying to talk about the greater love and the resolution of the paradox here in this thread, I'm talking about the archetype 6. I understand that there is no judgement, there is no real "bad", BUT, Ra gave us these tools to refine our consciousness with polarity in the context of 3rd density incarnation. You keep scoffing as if this is a meaningless exercise but I assure you the the whole of the archetypes are not a meaningless exercise to be learned nor are they yours to be rewritten on a whim. You are absolutely free to experience your own expression, but to act as if you are above the archetypical system of the Logos as offered by Ra seems quite lofty.

I have been doing nothing but attempt to discuss how we can learn to be more loving in greater ways, through the transformation of the mind. I do think that compassion and the STO path does lead to a higher/more balanced love but this is not the discussion I am attempting to engage in at this moment. It's about polarity.

Becoming aware of these things does have an impact on how you will feel about things and in turn on your polarity. If you peel off your veil you can't bound yourself to remain as you were before and here again there is an act of letting you as you've been saying yourself. To open yourself to higher ways known as known to your soul, you need to acknowledge that within yourself you know better and must make a choice to open yourself to this inner experience which contains so much more than a single lifetime, you need to let go of your ways of service to perceive that you have a greater potential within yourself and that unwillingness to connect to this potential that you hold and which is within your reach, also can be considered plundering, because you won't seek to offer the best you can offer and make a choice to dwell in a lesser state than you can reach.

I don't think any of this is unrelated to the archetype. Just like you say you can move on to ways that are without plunder, this doesn't mean that it stops there on the first basic level and that you can't do more and more. Like I said there are degrees of awareness which allow you to perceive much more than your conscious mind can perceive, and this awareness can make you act differently than you used to if you want to remain as loving and with the same positive intent in what you do.

I don't disagree with what you've been saying, what I disagree with is that what I've been saying is unrelated to it.

I meant more that there is a point those quotes tells us to not seek love in how it has been romantizied by our poets and such.

By a child you mean the first one of the 3 figures that represent an elevation?

I don't think it was saying not to seek that love, but that there was a "greater love", the love you are talking about, the second distortion, the creative principle of Love. This is the balanced, non-judging, open, infinite love you are talking about, but again, I'm trying to talk about a slightly lesser but still applicable love, that of the green-ray.

That's an interesting way to describe it. I always saw the figures responding to the call of the trumpeter, and the child as the final one to emerge from the sarcophagus.

While I think the creator basically is an eternal child, since the card is about transformation should not the movement reflect the transformation of one? I see it as symbolizing growth.

As I see things I have been working from the same quotes you did with different interpretations. l really don't know either why you feel like reducing courting/plundering to a polarized (positive/negative) relationship takes away everything the image seeks to teach.

It's not reducing it to polarity that I have a problem with in your interpretation, it's the fact that you deny that you must sacrifice certain actions for a transformation to occur, and you are telling me that BECAUSE I sacrifice actions I'm avoiding the transformation. You think the proper course to using the transformation is to give in to every whim of the High Priestess. I'm saying that the archetype says that you have to discern certain whims to stop feeding in to.

I also do not think you have taken many of the Ra quotes on this archetype into consideration, especially since you keep arguing with these words as if they were mine when they are not. I assure you, semantics mean much less to me than the average verbose forum poster. I am able to interchange other analogies/words, but they have to retain their meaning in the context of the original analogy. I'm not the one who can't work with Ra's analogy, so it's not up to me to rewrite the book (though I'm apparently trying).

It is also a bit frustrating to me when I ask you to discuss other concepts in the card to help elucidate the differences in our views and you say things like "I'll come back to that later." - Ra says the first step to learning the archetypes is to look at the symbols and decide what they mean to you, personally. You reject the symbols, so how have you practiced this study?

Where in this card does the symbolism say "This card isn't about polarity, it's about higher love" - a few have said the closed eyes of the male, but the fact is, eyes closed or not, the male cannot -move- without releasing a hand. I'm really curious to know what you think the triangles mean in the context of seeking unpolarized love, and the bound arms.

The "higher love" that you are speaking of, IMO, is represented by the Significator of the Spirit - there, there is one male and one female, holding hands, eyes open, looking at each other, with the sun behind them. No crossed arms, in fact, no desire to go anywhere but stay in their circle, gazing at each other. I think this is the card you are talking about/resonating with.

I'll just state again that all my posts spoke of polarity. I think you miss that your understanding of yourself and the world that surrounds you has a great impact on your polarity and how you will apply it to maintain/increase it, which might be why you see it as unrelated. Much like I said just above, if you want to disconnect yourself from both higher ways and higher love which you know of, it makes me question what it means to you to have positive intent.

I did not reject the symbolism of the card, all I've been saying is that I think the word "courting" was a stupid way to state the idea. Just a personal preference. I still think the card is quite good. And while I agree with the symbolism of the card, I still think you want to restrict the scope it can contain and apply to. About the triangles, I do see it as you spoke of it and I do think I have expressed that a few times already although indirectly.

I never spoke of attaining unpolarized love, what I say is that you can extend positively polarized love to infinite potential as long as you are able to distill it within yourself as such.

If I scratch a dog belly I don't think to myself that I am courting the dog... anyway...

Since courting seemed to be romanticized of a word, I thought the quotes I shared could be helpful in explaining why I think this word is not the best word to describe a loving focus upon others and interactions with them.

Here I would like to again note that it is not I that has extrapolated the concept of courting to mean "a means to an end that is literal sex". Of course you aren't trying to have sex with the dog, but you are showing it affection, compassion, adoration etc. These other words that I was using that you also seemed to have a problem with in associating with this card.

I'm not talking about sex... I'm not courting the dog because I am not seeking anything from it but am simply sharing a moment with it. I already said to me courting implies trying to win something.

I did not have a problem with the other words.