/scratcheshead
The issue seems to be a fundamentally philosophical one. There are ideologies which are rooted in the ancient past which are at the heart of these issues still today. That is, the ideas of man's dominance over Earth, the many old religious ideas of man's rights over women and in general an attitude that the world is for 'conquering'. Let's keep in mind that there is also a huge case of men abusing men in the same way as women, there are hordes of examples of men sexually and emotionally dominating other men, and many cases of male-male pedophilia. This coupled with the belief that men have a nearly uncontrollable 'drive' makes for a very dangerous set up mentally. However, few people would realize that that is in essence the same as the feminism issue, it is the oppression of those deemed weaker than oneself. That is why men who have been easily controlled and abused have all throughout time been equated with women and girls and why that insult still persists in boyish circles today.
Now I'm not really much of a feminist exactly but anyone who takes some time to read history can see these facts laid out. It's not even hard to find, you just have to look at the ideologies. The issue is that it isn't actually very easy to change peoples' beliefs on a large scale because these ideologies are still persistant and so are always pushing back against more compassionate ideas.
On the men's side of the issue, there are actually a lot of men who do take the side of women and push for respect, but the issue there is insular communities. That is, it's easy for people to isolate their influences. Gangs work that way. Even regular families can work that way.
If someone goes out in to the world and sees an inspiring idea and then goes home to ongoing abuse and ideological attack then it will be much harder for them to believe in that inspiring idea. So I see a double edged sword. Yes, it is the responsibility of men to educate themselves, however many if not 'stopping in their tracks' won't even take the time to fully consider the issue. In that, I think saying 'go teach yourself' is kind of shooting the idea in the foot because then they will just go and learn about it according to their interpretation and biases and will cherry-pick whatever already suits them and in the end, they will learn nothing.
I wish I had came upon this whole debate earlier and I might have had some useful motions to make but alas.
Personally, many women close to me have experienced sexual abuse and rape so I know it is a real 'every day' issue. Some have experienced it from their families which are the most dangerous situations. I, however, don't think I can really convey nor can speak for the pain that women feel. I can affirm it is there and validate it and support the healing but I think fundamentally as a man it is important for me to acknowledge that I do NOT share in the same pain even if I can empathize or sympathize with it. That is, I think there is a tendency for people to try and 'equalize' the pain but the fact is that the suffering is not the same. Simply stating that everybody suffers does not equalize the nature of everyone's suffering and to wash over suffering in a generalized way is a very broad way of ignoring the details of the issue. Of course, a man who has actually experienced these things would have more ability to identify with the same suffering.
The issue seems to be a fundamentally philosophical one. There are ideologies which are rooted in the ancient past which are at the heart of these issues still today. That is, the ideas of man's dominance over Earth, the many old religious ideas of man's rights over women and in general an attitude that the world is for 'conquering'. Let's keep in mind that there is also a huge case of men abusing men in the same way as women, there are hordes of examples of men sexually and emotionally dominating other men, and many cases of male-male pedophilia. This coupled with the belief that men have a nearly uncontrollable 'drive' makes for a very dangerous set up mentally. However, few people would realize that that is in essence the same as the feminism issue, it is the oppression of those deemed weaker than oneself. That is why men who have been easily controlled and abused have all throughout time been equated with women and girls and why that insult still persists in boyish circles today.
Now I'm not really much of a feminist exactly but anyone who takes some time to read history can see these facts laid out. It's not even hard to find, you just have to look at the ideologies. The issue is that it isn't actually very easy to change peoples' beliefs on a large scale because these ideologies are still persistant and so are always pushing back against more compassionate ideas.
On the men's side of the issue, there are actually a lot of men who do take the side of women and push for respect, but the issue there is insular communities. That is, it's easy for people to isolate their influences. Gangs work that way. Even regular families can work that way.
If someone goes out in to the world and sees an inspiring idea and then goes home to ongoing abuse and ideological attack then it will be much harder for them to believe in that inspiring idea. So I see a double edged sword. Yes, it is the responsibility of men to educate themselves, however many if not 'stopping in their tracks' won't even take the time to fully consider the issue. In that, I think saying 'go teach yourself' is kind of shooting the idea in the foot because then they will just go and learn about it according to their interpretation and biases and will cherry-pick whatever already suits them and in the end, they will learn nothing.
I wish I had came upon this whole debate earlier and I might have had some useful motions to make but alas.
Personally, many women close to me have experienced sexual abuse and rape so I know it is a real 'every day' issue. Some have experienced it from their families which are the most dangerous situations. I, however, don't think I can really convey nor can speak for the pain that women feel. I can affirm it is there and validate it and support the healing but I think fundamentally as a man it is important for me to acknowledge that I do NOT share in the same pain even if I can empathize or sympathize with it. That is, I think there is a tendency for people to try and 'equalize' the pain but the fact is that the suffering is not the same. Simply stating that everybody suffers does not equalize the nature of everyone's suffering and to wash over suffering in a generalized way is a very broad way of ignoring the details of the issue. Of course, a man who has actually experienced these things would have more ability to identify with the same suffering.
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