03-11-2017, 09:35 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2017, 09:39 AM by Agua del Cielo.)
I was not speaking of you, NightOwl, i am sorry if it came across like that!
And i also agree with much of what you said!
And, i also do not advertise drowning and getting lost in emotions and also not falling into a victim thing, i totally agree with you here!
What i try to advertise is allowing the emotions fully, with complete awareness. there would be no space for a victim Identity then.
But this would require continous practice.
On social vs. personal pain, i was inclined to say all pain is Personal.
But youre right, there is also collective pain.
i would say however one can only heal and deal with the personal "portion", that part one experiences.
on pain aus a result of mind constructs:
i would not completely agree here.
From my experience out of inner work the sequence would be:
First you have a painful experience in very Young years, Most likely the first 1 to 3.
As a means to defend the pain a mental construct is being "born".
This construct in later years leads to misconceptions and causes pain.
The very basis however would be the original pain.
and this pain will be contained in the further, related experiences, but only as a much weaker echo.
By allowing these emotions and experiencing them consciously, the need for defense gets lessened (obviously) and sooner or later one will get deeper and deeper to the very root.
And, there is no need to pass on that pain anymore, since one is able to hold it oneself!
The intellectual route is quite different.
I dont want to invalidate intellect here, not at all. It has it's place definetely.
However, no thought is the truth or can be the truth.
A thought is an abstraction, a means of seperation.
Experience love, or pain for example.
Now THINK about love. This is completely different and is not Love anymore, but an abstraction of love.
Each thought seperates you from yourself, you dont experience yorself anymore but an abstraction of you.
It is simply impossible to think and to be conscious at the same time.
When we think, wie are unconscious.
Now this is no accident, but an important function of the ego.
One of the reasons it was installed in the First place was to seperate one from the pain one experienced, and it was very successful in this.
When the pain has been severe enough and fear continues, a highly intellectual approach is very likely, since it will seperate you constantly from yourself and thus controlling and suppressing old and potentially new pain.
The intellectual road on the spiritual path would try to dissolve the Defense mechanism by means of the Defense mechanism itself.
This is not likely to be successful i believe.
edit:
I have to add, i really really like this discussion! Thank you for sharing, inspiring, and pointing out different aspects
And i also agree with much of what you said!
And, i also do not advertise drowning and getting lost in emotions and also not falling into a victim thing, i totally agree with you here!
What i try to advertise is allowing the emotions fully, with complete awareness. there would be no space for a victim Identity then.
But this would require continous practice.
On social vs. personal pain, i was inclined to say all pain is Personal.
But youre right, there is also collective pain.
i would say however one can only heal and deal with the personal "portion", that part one experiences.
on pain aus a result of mind constructs:
i would not completely agree here.
From my experience out of inner work the sequence would be:
First you have a painful experience in very Young years, Most likely the first 1 to 3.
As a means to defend the pain a mental construct is being "born".
This construct in later years leads to misconceptions and causes pain.
The very basis however would be the original pain.
and this pain will be contained in the further, related experiences, but only as a much weaker echo.
By allowing these emotions and experiencing them consciously, the need for defense gets lessened (obviously) and sooner or later one will get deeper and deeper to the very root.
And, there is no need to pass on that pain anymore, since one is able to hold it oneself!
The intellectual route is quite different.
I dont want to invalidate intellect here, not at all. It has it's place definetely.
However, no thought is the truth or can be the truth.
A thought is an abstraction, a means of seperation.
Experience love, or pain for example.
Now THINK about love. This is completely different and is not Love anymore, but an abstraction of love.
Each thought seperates you from yourself, you dont experience yorself anymore but an abstraction of you.
It is simply impossible to think and to be conscious at the same time.
When we think, wie are unconscious.
Now this is no accident, but an important function of the ego.
One of the reasons it was installed in the First place was to seperate one from the pain one experienced, and it was very successful in this.
When the pain has been severe enough and fear continues, a highly intellectual approach is very likely, since it will seperate you constantly from yourself and thus controlling and suppressing old and potentially new pain.
The intellectual road on the spiritual path would try to dissolve the Defense mechanism by means of the Defense mechanism itself.
This is not likely to be successful i believe.
edit:
I have to add, i really really like this discussion! Thank you for sharing, inspiring, and pointing out different aspects