The Ivory Tower and the pursuit of knowledge

[reedfish]

Reedfish,
its not about right or wrong.

I realize this is impossible to convey as a theory or concept, at least very hard.
It has to be experienced.

An example of what i mean (when i say "you" i dont mean only you):

As long as you are ( for whatever teason) identified with the intellectual mind, you will stay "in there" if ever possible.
Whatever we might discuss here then, you would view with the intellect.
If the identification would be so strong you would not be able to imagine consciousness without thought.
You would probably think that you eitherfall asleep or become unconscious.

Now, thats the very purpose of meditation, silent meditation (aiming for stillness).
To still the mind, to loosen that identification and to open yourself for a greater consciousness.

When you, in meditation, experience a state of non-thought, you will without s shadow of doubt experience a few things:
1) awareness or consciousness does NOT rely on thought, not at all
2) thought actually is what makes awareness impossible
3) you will open for your greater consciousness, gradually

If you do silent meditation for some time, its impossible to not agree on this.
But if you do not meditate, if you refuse to let go of the intellectual control, you will just not be able to make this experience.
And, honestly, do you see what this would mean, if it were true?
There would absolutely be no point in discussing this.
As long as you insist on restricting yourself to the intellect, you would just not know, what i am talking about. But there would also be no way to explain it.

I mean whats the very point of debating with someone, as an example, if there is "life afterdeath" or not? You would have to experience it to know and no amount of debating will take you there.

Now, experiencing a greater consciousness in a state of stillness is not that hard, but withoutexperiencing it, any debate is pointless.
Just like vegetarians debating over t-bone steaks.

There is no judgement involved orintended.
If its the path for the moment, perfect!
I was on that road, too, i perfectly understand this.
Its always a matter of "what do i need at this very moment?"

You might perceive this as arrogant, maybe it even is.
But i think clear direct words areneeded here, a diplomatic cautious approach will not help anybody.

Let me say two more things:
I entered this thread because kevn was making a very good and important point.
And i came to support his point, since i felt you were disecting and distorting the important insight he shared.
And many people read thesethreads, not only the members.
So i sometimes feel the need to really support.

Another thing is, instead of endlessly debating if or if not the intellect is a useful tool in seeking, i would prefer to move considerably deeper and rather offerhelp or exchange ideas HOW one can out of this restriction.
But instead the arguments and statements get ever more daring in order to (thats my impression) to defend the defense :/

I dont know if you re familiar with the Quo channelings (they are really worth reading and available here). And i dont wanna instrumentalize quotes to prove my point.
But to them this very information (about the intellect) seems to be very important, they speak about ever and ever again, that its the very hope of the entity when entering the incarnation to realize the intellect is just not a useful tool on the spiritual path.
You might want to check these out!
They also cover many many interesting and (compared with thra material) more "practical life" oriented ideas!

Quo has "their" opinion on the matter, I have mine. You're completely "right" of course - and I know you're "right" as well. Apparently what baffles you is someone whose "faith" in the correctness of what you're saying is so strong, so unquestioning, so un-curious about experiencing what you apparently (I could be "not right" ) think is "important" to experience, yet unimaginably and nonchalantly says "not now, I'm busy".

>> But to them this very information (about the intellect) seems to be very important, they speak about ever and ever again, that its the very hope of the entity when entering the incarnation to realize the intellect is just not a useful tool on the spiritual path.

So you're saying the "veil of forgetfulness" is not useful? I'll question Quo's opinion, but am a bit more hesitant to question the Logoi's opinion! I'm with you though! The Creator could be out of his friggin mind!

I'm 54, and have been pursuing metaphysics (among other things) aggressively since I was 22. My library fills an entire bedroom. And oh have I tried to meditate! I had a few "flashes", a couple of "glimpses" - enough to satisfy me about the "truth" of everything. I once after an untold period of sitting and clearing my mind, once felt the little ant walking around my third eye chakra. In my twenties I could sit in full lotus position (loosened my knees to the point of instability!) I'm a trained hypnotist, talked to the higher selves of numerous people. The message for **ME** (not for you and not for anyone else) was always the same - "DON'T BOTHER - too dangerous for YOU". I **FELT** this and was told this on NUMEROUS occasions. When the time is right, the veil will lift without effort - or so I was repeatedly told. At this point I don't really care anymore. This is not a world that supports this kind of pursuit - and I didn't need meditation for anything other than ripping the veil of forgetfulness into a thousand tiny little pieces and recovering the POWER I know I can have. (Something the Buddha disapproves of anyway.) My faith/knowledge of the greater ineffable existence is truly unquestioning. For me it's as real in my gut as this laptop I'm typing on - more so in fact. It's not even up for debate. For me, the intellectual material available like Ra, Seth and countless more has helped to fill the void in the meantime. (Milarepa is my hero.) It's a very POOR substitute - but I am deeply grateful for it nevertheless. I crave and consume heavy protein all the time - my wife makes nothing else. Someone is always shoving a beer in my hand (not my wife she doesn't drink) - and I almost never drink alone. I drink to get along. I prayed for a metaphysical mate and got one all right - the most tight lipped one you'll ever meet who says her only job is to "protect me" - after we were married and she moved from Ukraine (an aggressive matchmaker set us up - I felt I had no "choice" in the matter. It was a 'take it or leave it' deal, and it was clear to me there would be no other offers forthcoming). REALLY??? You can't make this s*** up!!! If a life was EVER planned to actually discourage meditation to the greatest extent possible - it's MINE.