(12-23-2010, 10:54 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: I'd agree but unfortunately however murder is defined by human law.. Cetaceans are not recognized as entities that can be murdered...
according to Ra material, the soul is responsible with anything that it gets involved in, even if it is in a baby body yet. there is no age. from the moment of inception, responsibility begins.
my understanding is that, there is no limit to responsibility. anything will be balanced. doesnt revolve even a bit on the 'human law'. it doesnt matter how the society consciousness here perceives things. it may delay things or it may make things go round about. but eventually everything will balance.
even the killing of bedbugs.
(12-23-2010, 01:53 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: You can't think like that can you?
If you take tomatoes of the land, to feed hungry children you're acting both STS and STO... Because not only do you feed the hungry, you also take food away from insects, worms and bacteria. When you choose to let fleas bite you, not only do you choose to feed the flea, you also allow diseases to spread more easily.
If you willingly destroy the land so no crops will grow there... That's evil right? What if not doing it caused your villagers to die of starvation? If you willingly cut down forests for money. That's evil right? What if without that money your family would die? Isn't it equally evil to let people die by not acting to provide for them?
If you could kill a specific man using a timemachine by giving his mother contraceptives, not only did you stop a life from existing, you prevented the second world war. So killing is right if the person is a bad person? What if he'd incidentally start a war but is firmly opposed to wars himself?
In my opinion every action is inherently neutral.
It is only the meaning that we personally ascribe to it that defines whether the action is positive or negative. This judgment is in the mind. And separate from the judgment are the causal consequences of an action. Which are in fact tied into the action.
Mother earth gives and takes. Meaning sometimes I feel warm in the sun, sometimes I feel wet and miserable in the rain. Sometimes bounty is on my path, sometimes I go hungry. Sometimes I am healthy sometimes I am ill. Is mother earth STS or STO?
No, she gives and takes in the ebb and flow of life... And so do I... I've killed fleas... As a dog owner I've probably killed whole societies of them. If I didn't my dog would have been miserable, and so would everyone around her have been.
STS and STO are very broad catagories. Helpful in every day decision making. And I do believe polarizing yourself to STO and thus being a conduit to light is not only noble but necessary. I believe choosing not to kill a flea is inherently noble as a motive. But I doubt the world truly is divided into STS or STO...
I think the question is. What are the likely consequences of your actions and are they in line with your goals?
balance.
anything will be balanced.
(12-23-2010, 11:37 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Please, whales and dolphins are obviously higher-order mammals, like chimps, but nonetheless they are definitely 2D creatures in 2D vehicles - no matter how much we can relate to their intelligence and behavior.
that is the current planetary society's perception of things. ironically it ranks entities so that, the current dominant species, itself, stays on top of the pile, conveniently.
it doesnt need mentioning that a whopping amount of perceptions of this planetary society regarding consciousness and existence, do not hold. and continually changing.
cetaceans distinguish in between entities. they are able to distinguish a human from another entity. moreover, they are able to distinguish a human in distress, from a human that is not in distress.
dolphins do not go about rescuing people who are swimming leisurely at sea. but, the cases of dolphins rescuing drowning people are numerous in history.
even humans are not able to perceive such distress in the middle of a city on average.
the whales who are able to attack and eat anything at sea, do not attack humans.
it can be expanded into various other branches of examination. but, these are sufficient indicators to an EQ that even surpasses humans.
in regard to iq, the researches show that the cetaceans are quite capable enough, even to the point of being trained for sinking battleships by attaching the explosives strapped on their backs to the bottom of the ships, leave aside other researches in regard to cognitive capabilities of these entities.
if you put it into context, unfortunately probably 50-6% of the human population would even rank behind cetaceans in regard to iq. (not even mentioning eq). yet, noone is ranking them as 2d entities.
its just a body. body is dependent on the choice of the logos and the chemicals available within the planet, as Ra tells us. moreover, they say this is a moment's choice by the logos and can change.