03-09-2019, 12:54 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2019, 11:32 AM by redchartreuse.)
(03-09-2019, 12:26 AM)xise Wrote: even crazy people can end up having valid positions.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut! Totally, and there are other issues we can see today where, just because somebody perceived as "crazy" says X, then people start presuming that "X" automatically must be a "crazy idea" with no merit worth consideration.
An example which comes to mind is bringing up non-human causes of climate change, and being immediately accused of being a "climate change denier." Um, no, actually, but rather if we took a closer look at the non-human causes of climate change, perhaps we might find new avenues for reducing our own impact that we hadn't previously considered.
Or even flat earth theory. Sounds totally absurd, but actually there is a legitimate hypothesis out there that our entire universe is actually a 2D disk, and what we perceive as 3D is a hologram. So maybe... maybe there is something to that. Maybe something worth our consideration.
It doesn't seem to me that are views are quite as as oblique as you suggest. You offered the word "crazy" which I did not suggest. Rather, I would suggest there are rabid crazy people, and those are the ones to look out for.
Plenty of super nice and interesting crazy people around too. But we just tend to call those people creative.
Quote:There are a lot of crazy people out there, and I think it's very useful to be able to filter out the good arguments from the crazy ones, if you want to end up with the truth (or something close to it).
Well, yes. And here's the thing. Someone can literally buy a bathroom picture book of logical fallacies for like $10, and start learning about them while they take their morning crap. (There are several nice websites dedicated to this sort of learning that are totally free. I just happen to like the imagery of the bathroom book.) After a very short while, they will find themselves rather empowered... not only more empowered to communicate their views to others, but vastly more empowered in being able to discern when they are being manipulated, or being presented with false information.
Because the false information is typically based on facts. It is the false relationships that are drawn between the facts that creates the delusion, and each of these can be described in terms of logical fallacy. But sadly, things have gotten so bad with this nowadays that a Russian social media troll doesn't even need to present the false arguments. In fact, to do so would be a liability because it wouldn't be long before somebody with a well-trained mind would come along and point out the fallacy.
Here's all they need to do. Put out a set of "facts"... say 20-30% true provable facts, 30-50% debatable facts, and 20-30% lies (or "alternative facts"), and then say:
"Here are the facts, you decide."
And the person with the untrained mind, and resulting chaotic emotional nature, will come along and simply project whatever false logic relationships onto those facts that fits their personal narrative at the time, and move along. Sooner or later, they will inevitably come to a "community" of like-minded folks (HINT: The same trolls run the online communities.) where they claim there is an area of "open debate" on the topic.
So then all these people now emotionally invested in a particular false theory come in, and they start re-presenting the set of facts along with their own false connections. In essence, doing the trolls work for them. (Isn't that nice?) But since almost none of the community members, by definition, are able to discern a false argument from a true one, it all comes together as some sort of hodge-podge mish-mash fantasy world which is nearly impenetrable by reason.
Next thing you know, a crazy man gets elected President.
All of this... could be prevented by taking 15 minutes a day for two weeks to learn about logical fallacies, and then applying that knowledge in one's own life. Yet, most people simply will not do it. It feels threatening to them... scary.. they seem to feel that their feelings themselves are at risk. But the intellect doesn't take away from our emotions any more than our emotions take away from our intellect. They are not opposites, but complements. They are intended to work together.
Quote:the underlying situation that creates emotion for the issue for people, crazy or not.
Which in your view would be...?