03-21-2019, 10:59 AM
(03-20-2019, 10:03 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:(03-20-2019, 11:45 AM)Diana Wrote: The difference is that we are all here in discussion. Presumably, we accept the idea, since we are here to discuss, that others' opinions may be given.
I really don't see us all being here incarnated on Earth circa 2019 and "crossing paths" as any different than us all "being here in a discussion forum" in terms of the level of consent required to use the spoken or written word in the presence of other selves.
To me, there is a difference. When I come here, and I see threads with subject lines, I assume these threads are created for the purpose of discussion. Out in the world, this is not the case. People go about their business, shopping, working, taking care of their families, and all the things people do. They don't necessarily want to discuss anything, so this is not a given in the world of human interaction. Many are asleep, as you point out, so evolving is not usually a conscious goal. I do think evolving is an innate imperative, but most people resist that which points out the need to change or grow. So I don't think there is any level of consent one can assume with human interaction in general. But here, on this forum, there is a level of consent (unless I am completely misled on this point).
(03-20-2019, 10:03 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:(03-20-2019, 11:45 AM)Diana Wrote: The other difference is attachment to outcome.
Certainly, becoming attached to outcomes is a potential hazard of interacting with others. But I'm not sure why you see this as a difference between myself and Minyatur, or why you would choose to insert yourself into this perceived difference- unasked for- to ostensibly make a point of how important the asking is.
I don't need to be asked by anyone to participate in any discussion here. I can see that maybe you feel I singled you out. That was not my intention. I was just expressing my thoughts on the subject—which are not rigid by the way. I reserve the right to change and evolve my perceptions.
(03-20-2019, 10:03 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:(03-20-2019, 11:45 AM)Diana Wrote: If Minyatur speaks of what he sees, I'm fairly certain he is not attached to an outcome; he is expressing what he notices.As far as I am aware, Minyatur has not authorized you to speak on their behalf. And so I can only accept this comment to the degree in which your offering of it gives me information about you , and not about Minyatur.
Fair enough.
I was responding to the posts, but I have known Minyatur for a number of years now through these boards. In truth I was using his (presumed) standpoint as a basis of comparison.
(03-20-2019, 10:03 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:(03-20-2019, 11:45 AM)Diana Wrote: A Zen slap, from what I can gather from this discourse, comes with an attachment—that the person being slapped "gets" whatever it is that the person doing the slapping tells them.
It's not clear to me how you have gathered this from the discourse at hand, however yes I would say if one gets hung up on the other person "getting something" in particular then that would be problematic.
Maybe sharing a story about a person I am close to was confusing, because yes in that particular instance I was/am feeling attached to them "getting something" because their behaviors were/are infringing on my personal space, as well as that of a child entrusted to my care. Probably not a great example, in retrospect.
The OP seemed to me to reflect the idea that you wanted to make (anyone) asleep get your messages. But that was an assumption on my part. Apologies if I was wrong about that.
(03-20-2019, 10:03 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:(03-20-2019, 11:45 AM)Diana Wrote: On the other hand, it is always, in my opinion, okay to speak your truth as long as there is no attachment to outcome.
Yes- I think in the case of what would otherwise be a "random" interaction with another, it is relatively easy to hold a space of non-attachment.
I'm not so sure. Most people are attached to outcomes in a number of ways—at least that's my observation. And becoming aware of, and learning to rise above, attachment, is not easy. Maybe in an inconsequential interaction such as a random greeting or casual conversation where there is nothing to attach to this is true (and might be what you mean?). But I find that detachment is rare in this world—detachment that derives from knowledge of free will, self-responsibility and accountability, and unconditional love.