Worship?

[Diana]

In general: A word is not just a word in my opinion. Words have power, or why would there be a banishing ritual? I think the intention behind words may really be the point, and yet...I don't know, sound is vibration, so is it crazy to think the vibratory aspects of a word would differ? What about derogatory words for dark-skinned people? Would those words not have a connotation difficult to override?

Yes and no, I would say.  If one is tethered to a limbic reaction to a word or to airplanes or dogs, etc., then it is what it is.  Otherwise, I would say that the power is being focalised by the words.  Whether that power is being focalised for good or for ill may be of concern in a specific context, but if we're just talking about the concept of--in this case--worship, then why muddy the waters with the sins of of the past ten generations?  Why not simply discuss the concept?  That's my point.  And I would offer the same comment to others who are stumbling over this matter.  

Well, I was discussing it. Seriously though, religions are not just the "past" they are very present and part of this current reality and mass consciousness. Which is part of my point—the word "worship" still carries a religious signature in a very real sense. 

I absolutely admit to strong biases against religions. I personally think that religions may have had a purpose in humanity's past, but they have long outgrown their usefulness. What I think is needed is for humans to makes choices for themselves in general, and not rely on outside sources to tell them what to do. But this is just me looking at the situation and seeing it the way I see it. Maybe you are right in that I am creating for myself this problem with the word "worship," and I do not discount this possibility, but I also think there is a mass-consciousness signature that is there no matter what I think. For individuals such as Wanderers, for example, would it not be accurate to say that they incarnate here and many find themselves "swimming against the current"? This does imply that there is a current, and I for one am not advanced enough to be immune to it entirely while in this vicinity.

The word, "faith," certainly has been hijacked by religions, for example. There is a collective consciousness behind such words that adds to the word's impact or meaning. That said, it doesn't mean one can't rise above that energetic influences. 

Exactly. So, why get bogged down in it at all?  Why not just "fly above the clouds" when everyone already knows about the storms below?

I'm not sure everyone does know about the storms below.

While I agree that one can discuss worship and apply it to a higher-minded view, I also think it important to distinguish this view from the one which has been so embedded in human culture for so long. I am a practical person, so I see no efficacy in of ignoring the reality of being down here in the 3D trenches. For example, keeping a focus on "love" in spite of the difficulties here, rather than because you ignore them, I think has more power of acceptance.

The new age community is a very good example of what I was trying to say. Many in that community seem like religious types displaced into a more progressive-seeming philosophy. I see many new agers doing the same things religious people do—just following what a guru says, or new age author, without really questioning. This is why I say that one is better off emancipating one's self from the embedded religious connotations before pouring energy into yet another type of "religious" worship.

Worship to me may somehow lead to unity but I think it is a way that rather makes a relationship to one being (infinite and inclusive though it might be) instead of directly uniting to all things. To me it is missing crucial steps. Why not just work consciously toward unity of all things (this is what I mean by respect for all life). Why does one have to go through the OIC to do that? It is too close to religious thinking for me. It may seem more direct just connecting to the OIC, but I disagree with that; it bypasses actually acknowledging for one's self that other life forms matter. It is like the difference between putting the pieces of a puzzle together one by one working on each piece to understand where and how it fits, and, admiring its beauty when all put together without having done the actual work.

We're out of sync here.  The whole point, for moi, is that Unity, etc. is beyond the conscious mind.  That's a challenge of 3D, how to have a relationship with the greatness beyond the small self.  One can say with the mouth that you are ultimately worshiping self, but is that really experiential?  I doubt it.  If your bent is more phenomenological, then worship of some form can be quite useful in this regard.  If it's not, then is it fair to blame other people's historical bad manners?  I think not, personally.

As I said above, it isn't just historical, it is a present-day issue. For example, there are still violent acts happening today by religious followers.

I totally agree that making the intellectual leap to saying all is one, and knowing that if you worship you worship yourself, barring experiential comprehension of this, is only an idea really. 

I suppose that we are talking about different approaches to the same end. Either way an individual will likely get there. I just have a bent toward understanding (and I am quite aware of what Ra says on this point ) and analysis and thinking things out for myself. I suppose I am also a bit of an anarchist. I like forging my own path, but that doesn't mean I don't consult a map once in a while. But I also do not follow a map blindly. That said, my approach is not "right." I am just posting here to join in interesting discussions, which also help me untangle my own thoughts by bouncing them off others likewise interested.

---