LoO Jesus & non-canonical gospels

[hogey11]

And here it is: Jesus asks for Judas to do the dirty deed.

'Asks' or 'foretells'?

One thing that doesn't make sense to me in the Gospels, was the kiss of Judas. Was it at that point in time still necessary for Judas to have to 'identify' Jesus to the soldiers? Is it possible that Jesus was still unknown to so many, soldiers in this case, that he had to be identified?

Interesting how we talk about this during Easter.

For myself, I lean towards 'ask' more than 'foretell'.

It would explain the lack of fight Jesus had in being sent to the cross. Pilate gave him more than enough chances to get out of it, but Jesus held his ground. The kiss may have been a personal thing; a goodbye possibly?

I guess the mix up comes with Ra's explanation of what happened, saying that Judas thought that Jesus, if backed into a corner, would wield his power and 'make a difference'. This is possible in either circumstances.

Even if Jesus expressly asked Judas to betray him, we can see that even when Jesus tells "the truth", it can be very cryptic. I don't think Judas knew exactly what was going on, but he trusted Jesus and did what he asked of him. He just couldn't take the aftermath once he realized that Jesus intended to die; his personal vision was being shattered before his eyes, so he committed suicide.

The passage before this Jesus shows Judas a vision, and in it Judas sees the end times, and he sees the corruption of the church in Jesus' name, and he is very concerned for it. But Jesus claims that they are still from him although they are very wicked, and that they will be taken care of when their time is done. He then says that his ministry is for a "future generation" that will come to usher in the new heaven.

The best argument I could make for 'foretell' is that this conversation may have scared Judas. Here is Jesus - he is mocking the Jewish faith, he is taking responsibility for false teachers, and then he says that Judas' generation isn't even the benefactor of his work; its all for some future people. This may have pushed Judas to try to push Jesus by putting him in a tight spot. Additionally, depending on how truly wise Jesus was, he may have also told these stories on purpose, to push Judas towards the intended circumstance.