07-22-2009, 10:11 PM
Ali Quadir Wrote:Individuality is an illusion.
Only in the sense that the individuality of the shell, albumen and yolk of an egg are illusion, or in the sense that the individual physical nature of earth, ocean and sky are illusion. I don't see this as illusion, really; I believe the perception of individuality is valid, on many levels, regardless of whether there is acknowledgment or awareness of the whole. This may not resonate with you, and it's ok with me that you perceive individuality as an illusion; but 'illusion' does not define my reality. Different, equally valid perceptions.
Ali Quadir Wrote:The point imho is to just have fun and adventure. In whatever way you consider most resembling your highest joy and ideals.
Again, this may be the point for you, but it's only a small portion of the point for me. I don't think it's realistic to attempt to apply such statements to everyone, when you only know for sure that they're true for you. My highest joy and ideals encompass more than fun and adventure, and the emphasis placed on those things are much lower on my personal priorities list. Again, both valid perceptions, but not the same, and certainly neither can be applied universally.
Ali Quadir Wrote:I have this physical reflex when I'm learning something truly new. When I discover something that is somehow connected. The first person to invoke that reflex in my was my father. I'd just giggle if some explanation started to come alive in me. It'd just connect and I feel joy that makes me giggle in a silly way... Whenever I feel that giggle I know I'm about to understand something cool, it's a recognition effect. It's a sense of adventure. But ultimately how could I possibly giggle if I don't know the thing before hand at some level.
It's an addictive quality... I'm not here not learning.. I love learning, I love exploring.. I'm just not here to learn.
I too have a physical reflex under similar circumstances; I get goose bumps on my arms, sometimes also my legs, and there is a corresponding vibration in my gut. My emotional response can range from giddy to sobbing; it depends on what it is that triggered the response, not on the response itself, nor is the response always evoked by recognition; I often experience new things as my awareness awakens. They're sometimes, but not always, discoveries of things I'd never seen, known, or experienced before, and I know this because of the quality of the vibration in my gut. There's a difference.
We have some very dissimilar (but equally valid) ways of perceiving things... which is also evident in your perception of 'the point' having an addictive quality. This is simply not true for me. And I'll say again that I should have used the term "experience" instead of "learn" in terms of my purpose here. I am here (and anywhere else I might be at any given time) for the "experience" -- all of it, not just the fun, adventurous stuff. Some of the things I've experienced in this lifetime could not, by any stretch, be described with those terms. "Valuable" is a good descriptor, though.
Ali Quadir Wrote:I just want to put in an alternative interpretation.
I just believe that as a wanderer.. My path is to be here. To be human. Including all the flaws that come with it..
This is good. That's part of what makes discussion such a wonderful thing (us non-individuals who have very different POVs, hee). Where I get stuck is when things are stated as, "it's not this, it's that" in a way that semantically denies the validity of the experience and understanding of others, stating one perception of spiritual reality as true over another. Yes. It does often come down to semantics, but I'd posit that there are underlying perceptions that influence how thoughts are phrased (often in the form of an emotional sense of 'right' versus 'wrong'), and it's telling when a statement of perception (or experience, etc) semantically invalidates perceptions that differ.
And I can't tell how my tone of voice is coming across here, so I want to clarify that I'm not writing out of anger or frustration. I'm actually enjoying this exchange, and - like I said - I can't tell how it sounds outside of my head. My intent is to make some distinctions regarding the validity of differing perceptions/experiences and how they're stated (as one's own, or as applying to all). This is, to me, a distinction that goes deeper than simple semantics.
Thank you, too, Ali Q, for sharing your insights.
plur