12-02-2009, 11:40 AM
To be honest Ali the papers I was aware of are ones my brother dug out and looked out on my behalf, he's a surgeon so has access to all the paid for journals and research databases. The papers I found freely availalbe on the web were a couple of veterinary medicine papers and the ongoing controversy over the link between the hep b jab and ms where there have been various studies - some claiming a link, others disputing a link (my best friend's mum who has become a good friend of mine developed her first ms symptoms within two weeks of a hep b jab in the 80s - guess which way i lean...). One vet paper i read basically summarised that the more commplex a vaccination the greater the likelihood of there being an abnormal immune response.
This was 3 years ago when i was trying to decide what to do about vaccinating my son and I was aware of a pattern of auto immune responses in my family that seemed to be directly linked to vaccination patters - my parents, me, my brother, maternal grandmother, paternal grandfather, paternal aunt, one maternal cousin and 2 paternal cousins have auto immune disorders. there is also a family history of allergies, in particular bad eczema outbreaks immediately following vaccination - me, my uncle, two cousins. With everyone in my immediate family having or having had an ai disorder with the notable exception of my sister who has no ai condition and no allergies, it seemed like more than a coincidence that she was the only person in my family who did not receive any childhood vaccinations (due to the concern over the whooping cough jab in the 70s) until she was eleven years old.
Anyway, so seeing that family pattern I was obviously already biased to the possibility that there was a link.
The outcome of the research that my brother did - because having had drug induced sle (lupus) for 3 years he is interested as he wants children one day - his conclusion was 'for an individual the risk of vaccination is always too great, for society as a whole the risk of not vaccinating is also too great' - or something along those lines. He also felt that there were papers 'missing' that obvious questions he would have asked, the research simply hasn't been done. As a victim of medical denial in the face of the bleeding obvious over his lupus side effect he perhaps has a different perspective from most people in the medical profession, and he is pretty scathing about the way medical research is funded and monitored.
On another note entirely, during the MMR debates in the 90s i vividly remember watching a live televised debate i think on channel 4 in the uk. the reason i remember it so vividly is because one of the pro-mmr doctors who i think was an immunologist said that the only section of the population that he would advise to avoid mmr was children of mothers who had auto immune disorders. since any future child of mine fell into that category my ears pricked up and i've always remembered it. however i can't find any trace of information like that anywhere else to refer you to.
Anyway... I shall try to stop rambling because I'm aware this is coming across as very subjective and lacking in evidence. I'm actually not anti-vaccination - alexander has had a number of single vaccinations, no more than one jab in any two week period, which actually means he has had more doses of vaccines than most children. i wanted him protected from horrible diseases, but i wanted him protected as safely as possible
what sickens me is that given that there are even at least suspicians about the link between ai and allergies and vaccinations, surely families at risk should be given that information? mothers with a medical history of eczema and hayfever are already warned about things like avoiding peanuts during pregnancy and nursing incase of triggering an allergy - and this is without any evidence to support it (actually quite the contrary based on nut consumption / allergy levels in high nut consumption populations such as china). so why arent' they being warned about other potential impacts on the health of their children.
the medical establishment is slow to move, and will be scared to move because any suggestion of any potential at risk group from vaccinations will drastically lower uptake rates becasue of media fearmongering, and so individuals go on being damaged.
there's no quick fix though - it's only very very recently that ai conditions have even started being looked at as a group, only 25 years ago that my mother was being accused of child abuse / stress because i had alopecia because hair loss 'must' be stress related as it wasn't even classed as an ai condition.
the immune system is incredibly complex and is actually one of the least well understood systems in the body. i do believe that the more is found out about the immune system the safer vaccines will become and that eventually one day at risk people will be advised to avoid vaccines, or at least there will be ways to lower the risk - who knows...
anyway, better get back to doing some work....
i'm broadly comfortable with the choices i've made over vaccination, but the way i have been spoken to by some medical professionals because of my decision is absolutley disgraceful
This was 3 years ago when i was trying to decide what to do about vaccinating my son and I was aware of a pattern of auto immune responses in my family that seemed to be directly linked to vaccination patters - my parents, me, my brother, maternal grandmother, paternal grandfather, paternal aunt, one maternal cousin and 2 paternal cousins have auto immune disorders. there is also a family history of allergies, in particular bad eczema outbreaks immediately following vaccination - me, my uncle, two cousins. With everyone in my immediate family having or having had an ai disorder with the notable exception of my sister who has no ai condition and no allergies, it seemed like more than a coincidence that she was the only person in my family who did not receive any childhood vaccinations (due to the concern over the whooping cough jab in the 70s) until she was eleven years old.
Anyway, so seeing that family pattern I was obviously already biased to the possibility that there was a link.
The outcome of the research that my brother did - because having had drug induced sle (lupus) for 3 years he is interested as he wants children one day - his conclusion was 'for an individual the risk of vaccination is always too great, for society as a whole the risk of not vaccinating is also too great' - or something along those lines. He also felt that there were papers 'missing' that obvious questions he would have asked, the research simply hasn't been done. As a victim of medical denial in the face of the bleeding obvious over his lupus side effect he perhaps has a different perspective from most people in the medical profession, and he is pretty scathing about the way medical research is funded and monitored.
On another note entirely, during the MMR debates in the 90s i vividly remember watching a live televised debate i think on channel 4 in the uk. the reason i remember it so vividly is because one of the pro-mmr doctors who i think was an immunologist said that the only section of the population that he would advise to avoid mmr was children of mothers who had auto immune disorders. since any future child of mine fell into that category my ears pricked up and i've always remembered it. however i can't find any trace of information like that anywhere else to refer you to.
Anyway... I shall try to stop rambling because I'm aware this is coming across as very subjective and lacking in evidence. I'm actually not anti-vaccination - alexander has had a number of single vaccinations, no more than one jab in any two week period, which actually means he has had more doses of vaccines than most children. i wanted him protected from horrible diseases, but i wanted him protected as safely as possible
what sickens me is that given that there are even at least suspicians about the link between ai and allergies and vaccinations, surely families at risk should be given that information? mothers with a medical history of eczema and hayfever are already warned about things like avoiding peanuts during pregnancy and nursing incase of triggering an allergy - and this is without any evidence to support it (actually quite the contrary based on nut consumption / allergy levels in high nut consumption populations such as china). so why arent' they being warned about other potential impacts on the health of their children.
the medical establishment is slow to move, and will be scared to move because any suggestion of any potential at risk group from vaccinations will drastically lower uptake rates becasue of media fearmongering, and so individuals go on being damaged.
there's no quick fix though - it's only very very recently that ai conditions have even started being looked at as a group, only 25 years ago that my mother was being accused of child abuse / stress because i had alopecia because hair loss 'must' be stress related as it wasn't even classed as an ai condition.
the immune system is incredibly complex and is actually one of the least well understood systems in the body. i do believe that the more is found out about the immune system the safer vaccines will become and that eventually one day at risk people will be advised to avoid vaccines, or at least there will be ways to lower the risk - who knows...
anyway, better get back to doing some work....
i'm broadly comfortable with the choices i've made over vaccination, but the way i have been spoken to by some medical professionals because of my decision is absolutley disgraceful