(09-07-2011, 12:51 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:unity100 Wrote:don was not talking to an entity channeled by Carla. don was talking to Ra.
Don was talking to Ra... through Carla. This doesn't preclude the possibility of transient interference with the communication.
if you look at the description of the process in there, you will find that the entity 'Carla' was missing from the environment during the working, and together with Ra social memory complex in their home vibration.
there is no 'Carla' at that point.
it precludes the possibility of transient interference as much as you being in your body and telling your spouse that you love her precludes the possibility of transient interference.
Quote:You're continuing to build upon a characterization of the channeling process that may not be accurate. It may in fact be correct. But I don't know of any standard by which to evaluate these statements.
actually we do. we have a long tally of channeling methods starting from late 1800s. in among them, the description and mechanic of what we observe here, come up as the most perilous and outstanding.
Quote:I think what is being said here is that a 5D entity either interfered with Carla's unconscious state, Don's conscious state, or both. Which is not ridiculous, and is in fact not only possible, but exactly correct, according to Ra's words.
don's conscious state is irrelevant to the answer Ra gives. otherwise we wouldnt have answers in the form of blunt 'no's. anything affected by the conscious or subconscious of questioner, would take form according to what the questioner desired. and that wouldnt be blunt 'no's to carefully formulated, precisely worded queries that were created over a week's duration.
Carla's unconscious state is out of the question. since she is not there at that moment. you may want to do a reading into history of channeling and methods of channeling.
the situation here is no different from the entity walking in to abraham lincoln's body. it used abraham lincoln's own vocabulary, language skills, and yet it was a totally different entity. the difference in this case is, there is no veil of forgetting involved.
Quote:unity100 Wrote:that would mean that Ra would be corruptible even in their home vibration, and even in their home state.
I'm sorry, but you seem to be overlooking the fact that Ra "screwed up" several times throughout earth's history, with all sorts of unexpected ramifications and unforeseen consequences. So yes, we must assume that- even at Ra's level- things are to a degree unknown and unpredictable. In fact, we specifically know that Ra's continued interaction with us here in 3D is directly tied to their attempt to attain their own next level.
screwing up due to naivete, and being controlled by negative entities are two different things. you cannot equate screwing up due to lack of wisdom to being controlled by a negative entity to make mistakes, and then being prevented from making those mistakes.
Quote:Yes, this would call many things into question. Since we don't have recordings of PET scans or EEGs of Don and Carla during the sessions, we really have no way of knowing how deeply "out" Carla was, or what kind of emotional state Don was in when he asked the questions, etc.
then in the end it means you either trust in this material, or you dont. there is no mid ground like icaro is trying to boil in order to work around the quote he doesnt like.
Quote:unity100 Wrote:not only that, you also let go of the orders of progress in regard to this octave , from 5th to late 6th at least.
Eh? I am not following you in this statement.
an entity which has evolved into 6d from 5d, has evolved to it by passing all the necessary lessons that is relevant to 5d.
this includes any kind of possessive influence, 'mind control', being mislead, taken astray and many many more, which are being used as a base for proposing negative influence. you cannot pass from 5d to 6d, without having fulfilled these lessons (from both sides), just like how a 3d entity is not able to pass through 4d before fulfilling requirements of 4d.
the entity we are talking about is late 6d to boot.
Quote: Not true. They come when they are called. The calling also draws the attention of the Orion group. This is all discussed in the material. Honestly, I am having a hard time seeing how one can accept that the group was under attack during many of the sessions, but that somehow the material emerged completely unscathed.
actually i have already expressed this, and will not express it if you just go back and reiterate it again. i feel that you are either not reading what other people write, or just ignoring them.
if there was any kind of successful influence on the process, the influence would need to prevent Ra from going back and correcting the 2011 date that was introduced.
the only way for that to happen would be the negative entity taking total control of the process, or Ra entity, so that Ra entity would not be able to make the correction at any point they had access to process.
this is out of the question since all properties of the transmitted information remain consistent after session 17, totally similar to how it was before session 17. negative usurpation of the process changes the tone and nature of the information transmitted. since this did not happen, one cannot come up and propose that the negative entity got ahold of the process and imitated Ra.
Quote:I don't know for sure, but I do think that I have had some experience with 5D/neg entities- and let me tell you that they are not in the least perturbed by white candles. Nor does invoking the name of "Jesus Christ" send them off whimpering to their master in defeat. Such contrivances are amusing to 5D entities.
The only reason that the protection rituals had ANY effect was because of the effect they had on Carla's mental/emotional state to the degree that they reduced fear and doubt. If Carla wanted to create a ritual using a rotten banana peel and an empty bottle of Jack Daniels, while reciting the theme song to Cheers, she could have done that, and it would have worked just as well if such a ritual was acceptable to her subconscious.
and if you had more experience with negative entities and thought forms - not limited to 5d - you would find that there are a lot of effects that are caused by even the ordinary household items you totally take for granted and ignore, leave aside stuff you regularly use, totally leaving aside what you actually like or dont like to use. ridiculous things can allow for undesirable opportunities, or provide opportunities for the opposite kind.
the measures taken for Carla seem to have been taken mainly for procuring save leaving, keeping and returning of its mind/spirit complex to Ra's location, and back from their home vibration. this process has been done in every session, with the risk of any negative entity attempting to grab Carla's mind/spirit complex and place it in a negative time/space, killing her in incarnation. actually this was explained in detail in the book.
i dont know why i am having to tell you this.
Quote:YET, we are expected to believe that somehow, the actual words of the material emerged 100% unscathed, and error free? You must admit the situation is tenuous, at best.
it is not more tenous than the need for some of you people to have a means to deny the information you have at your hand.
noone could believe that some random natives could have passed pacific ocean with makeshift rafts, but it was proven. i can count a lot of things which were dubbed as impossible or unlikely, yet happened.
Quote:You seem to be conceiving of this as an either/or situation. There are many shades of "pure". And we are giving at least one example earlier in this thread about a man who was inspired by the Confederation to make some sort of free energy device, but then got influenced by the Orion group thus depolarizing his mission. Yet, in the end there was no real "harm done" due to the man's purity of intention.
So purity of intention does not 100% preclude manipulation. It just helps to reduce it.
i wont tell you again that if the process had not remained clean and clear according to Ra entity's aim, the process would have been discontinued. and if it was discontinued but still went on usurped by a negative impostor, it would change the tone and content of the message entirely.
Quote:Agreed. I think it is safe to say that Ra wasn't completely removed and replaced by a negative entity. The most we are talking about here is the possibility that a negative influence caused a "slip up" and/or that Ra, for some reason unbeknownst to us, allowed the "slip up" to pass.
it is an either or situation. ra corrected any slip ups. for a slip up not to be corrected, the entity must have taken over Ra for the rest of the material. period. i dont know how many times we need to reiterate this. and how it is possible for someone to still keep on arguing that 'some' influence was made, and then remained uncorrected, SOMEHOW.
Quote:Actually, yes it is. If you look at the material as a whole, there is a clear trend toward more transitory material as it goes on. In fact, as I have repeatedly pointed out ad nauseum, this trend was established right there in Session One. Ra offers to continue discourse on the Law of One. Don says, no thanks, tell us about the earth changes. "The tape gets flipped." Then Ra parlays the query about earth changes into harvest. And we're off to the races from there.
As you progress toward the end of the material it is dominated by discussion about the negative contact and the archetypes of the tarot. Which, I am sorry I am interested by the tarot just as much as the next guy, but I still don't understand why so much time was spent on this. There are so many countless works on the tarot and the archetypes, and frankly I didn't find one stitch of new information in any of those responses that couldn't be found in other books, or simply by meditating on the images on the cards themselves.
you dont understand why so much time was spent on 'tarot' archetypes, and then you proceed on to dub that material 'transitory' ?
are you joking or is this serious ?
what you call 'archetypes of tarot' are the archetypes of mind/body/spirit that are used by the logos of this solar system. since archetypal differences and interrelations vary, but the presence of archetypes of mind, body and spirit and their basic interactions do not change from logos to logos, what is described therein is basically the explanation and study of how entities exist.
it cannot go any more basic than that. excuse me, but if you are not aware of this, you shouldnt go around dubbing material transitory or non-transitory. it means that you just dont know what you are talking about.
it seems as if you are talking from your experience with what is called 'tarot' from outside. you seem to think that something like 'tarot' exists, and this material is studying it. you either have not read that the tarot you know from general knowledge has started, and evolved from this thing that is being discussed there, and that very thing was meant for teaching how archetypes of mind, body and spirit exist and interact.
Quote:So, yes, there is a very clear trend in depolarization throughout the entire contact, and it begins only a few paragraphs into Session One. This is not to say that Ra was displaced by a negative entity. It IS to say that Ra's purpose in responding to the call was largely depolarized by a direct attack on the material.
you are wrong, as demonstrated in your above dubbing of the very fundamentals of existence, thought, emotions and interactions not only in this solar system, but universe at large, as transitory.
.................
i will stop discussing this matter with you at this point. it becomes unworkable when someone dubs some information that works on the very basics of how entities 'exist' as transitory. it starts from wrong footing and goes downhill from there.
as a sidenote i will tell you that you are doing insightful strides occasionally, but because you are doing a lot of strides while not having a firm grasp of what you are starting your conclusions from, most of them go haywire.
like how you dubbed a piece of information which would open an entity the gates to how entities actually are able to perform what we call 'thinking', 'feeling', 'spiritual progress', and what actually an 'entity' means, as transitory. perilous information to work with actually, since it involves the very things that mind body spirit are, and their connections and interrelations - which can quite easily take an entity to destabilization and many other things, among which suicide would probably be least and one of the safe ones among what could happen.
thank you for your discussion.
(09-07-2011, 01:14 PM)Icaro Wrote:
I'm willing to mold and grow my understanding, and consider other possibilities. Suppose Orion didn't influence the channel directly. The purity of the session was detuning, no doubt.
im not discussing this matter with you, since i see little point, but i want to make this comment based on my experience with discussing you on this matter, which could be helpful to you :
you are not at all willing to mold or grow your understanding. for 2.5 threads total now, you are trying to go around a quote you dont like. despite ALL the arguments you have provided did not allow you to do so, you have still not at all considered the possibility that you are wrong, and you are trying to still go around something you dont like - as evidenced by what you write - which still revolves around the effort of introducing some, but not much 'negative influence' in ANY form you can manage, as to go around the information you dont like.
occasionally mentioning that you are willing to change your perspective is just lip service when you are hell bent on trying to ignore/deny the uncomfortable information you are up against. you went from interpreting to rewriting, from rewriting to metaphorizing, from metaphorizing to claiming negative usurpation. this sequence does not at all support your claim of being willing to change your perspective.
(09-07-2011, 08:15 AM)zenmaster Wrote:(09-07-2011, 05:14 AM)unity100 Wrote: the simultaneous multiple existences of an entity throughout parallel universes. all of these potential paths combine in 7d, where you can see their entire picture.If you say so.
i dont 'say' it. its what we learn from the material.