________

[rva_jeremy]

Thanks for your very warm response, YinYang. I respond to things you bring up because they inspire reflection. Isn't that much more satisfying than two portions of the Creator merely agreeing? By provoking reflection, you're performing quite a service.

If your child walks into the house one night and says "dad, I've joined Scientology"... how will you react?

I'd probably freak out.

But nobody here has talked about somebody joining a cult of negative philosophy; only reading it. I'd probably cheer my child on if he or she were reading Dianetics of their own accord. That shows a lot of initiative and curiosity, and we'd have some bomb dinner conversations.

On the other hand, I'd probably lose it if my kid joined a Nietzschean cult, mostly because I'd have no idea what that could possibly mean. I'd be like "why haven't I heard of that first?"

[YinYang]

And thank you for your warm response also, rva_jeremy, this forum certainly needs a lot of love lately.

The problem with Gurdjieff is "just reading it" can be lethal... I'm sorry for sounding overly dramatic. He also makes it very clear that no-one can "get there" without a guru, so the first thing most do after reading him, is find the nearest "fourth way school", and then it's game over... they'll be waiting for you with wide open arms, and a slight Satanic grin...

[Glow]

You don't hear his name much but what an amazing thing to do.

Jiddu Krishnamurti was just amazing. I can't imagine the courage it must have taken to do that. He should also be added to the positive adept thread, he was a big one!

Cheesy but I have a pintrest folder just for his truths. I collect truths not leaders or gurus. Everyone is flawed, and perfect.

Blows my mind someone who had so much of a grasp on thing could be so relatively unknown.
I guess that's the thing though. He disassembled it, didn't want notoriety, or power, or to judge/elevate himself above others.

Its such an incredibly rare thing not to want to lead but to empower people to discern for themselves.
Its kind of why I never expect perfection from any guru or spiritual leader. If they think they need to lead, or rather others should follow their moral compass it illustrates their own human weakness/distortion.

[Infinite]

The problem with Gurdjieff is "just reading it" can be lethal... I'm sorry for sounding overly dramatic. He also makes it very clear that no-one can "get there" without a guru,

I really don't want play the role of Gurdjieff's lawyer. But this isn't true. G. don't offered ascension or something like that. The Fourth Way have the objective of make a seeker. The forth man. The ascension belong to the man 7. And the most famous technique of G. is the mindfulness, that is present in many spiritualist works. It is, nothing negative.

[YinYang]

Apologies Infinite, but I'm not getting into this again :-) I just don't see the value in beating a dead horse.

Even James Webb, as brilliant as he was, couldn't avoid being sucked in when he researched Gurdjieff and his followers in order to write The Harmonious Circle... he shot himself as soon as the book was published.

The only other thing I never mentioned in the Gurdjieff thread, was something mentioned in the beginning of the book Hostage to the Devil. Malachi Martin mentioned certain things he found that typically lead to possession, and guess who enjoys prime position... Monsieur Gurdjieff and his Enneagram...

And that's it from me on Gurdjieff, when I research something, I leave no stone unturned, and I am satisfied that I have done my job in sounding the alarm, no matter how many insults I had to endure from Gurdjieffians. I despise discussing or researching the dark side... You have no idea what you are getting yourself into, but this is your life lesson my friend, I have this one already ticked off (thank God my guardian angels worked overtime, they deserved a sabbatical after that little research project.) Free will is paramount, and presumably, curiosity also killed the cat...

Ra: Thus, to learn is the same as to teach unless you are not teaching what you are learning; in which case you have done you/they little or no good.

Rather hop over to the Positive Adept thread, there are some nice gems in there ;-)

[YinYang]

Interestingly, given that Jiddu Krishnamurti also made a guest appearance in this thread, the "anti-guru guru", as he was called, he gave a lecture one day and took some questions, and lo and behold, there was a Gurdjieffian in the audience... they just have a knack for popping up everywhere...

Here's Krishnamurti's answer. One can see his frustration when he says "for God's sake! Be a light onto yourself! The blind leading the blind."... the necessity and the near-hopelessness of attempting to teach...