Sexual Revolution

[Bring4th_Austin]

I have a personal perspective to add to this thread, but first I wanted to get some opinions on celibacy.

When sexually liberating experiences/sexual energy transfer seem to be extremely useful for spiritual growth and practice, why does celibacy seem to be a common factor in some spiritually devout paths? Is this a "harmful" distortion? What are the virtues of a sexless life?

I've pondered this for a long time and I can't seem to think of anything substantial.

Discussing this will hopefully help me share my personal experiences and perspective, and maybe help me find some guidance in an aspect of my life I normally feel very lost in.

[Monica]

When sexually liberating experiences/sexual energy transfer seem to be extremely useful for spiritual growth and practice, why does celibacy seem to be a common factor in some spiritually devout paths?

In the case of Catholicism, the priests and nuns were expected to suppress their natural desires, thus perpetuating the inevitable feelings of guilt, thus making them easier to control.

Is this a "harmful" distortion?

In my opinion, when it's suppressed, exceedingly so.

What are the virtues of a sexless life?

When it's forced and the energies suppressed, I can't think of a single virtue. But I can think of lots of ways it is harmful.

In contrast, however, Taoist monks were also celibate, but were taught techniques to channel the sexual energy, so that it flowed rather than obstruct. In this way, it could be a healthy path, assuming the monk chose to follow that path voluntarily.

[native]

The idea of celibacy in eastern traditions is for the purpose of cutting your ties so to speak with the physical world, so you are functioning wholly on a spiritual level without distraction. I think this had it's purposes for the first few generations of masters trying to discover knowledge. Once this framework of knowledge is known though, it's not so much necessary that the student follow the same path. It could also be said that being celibate in one or several lifetimes may be enough for what you're hoping to achieve, but eventually it no longer becomes useful....speaking in terms of 3d.

Logically though, it involves the first ray..primal and necessary. Sex is totally necessary! If you can control and repress this basic function such as in Christianity, you can create great imbalance which is immensely helpful in manipulation. The difference between a Buddhist and a Christian, generally speaking, is that the Buddhist will approach it from a more balanced perspective and be able to channel it as Monica has said.

I really love what Ra has said in terms of freely giving love. In several statements it seems to me that Ra has alluded to them having been a very sexually liberated group. They slept around! A group of friends were probably very, very close I see this as healthy. Sex whenever you need or want it..sounds great to me..just to express a friendship. Our idea of sex is so repressed and perverted on this planet, it makes having sex with a friend for fun or in celebration sound unnatural. How can this be? Repressing sex is cultural..it's learned behavior. If we were more liberated, we wouldn't be as focused on it. It would just be a natural part of living..instead of building up the hornymones!

Ultimately though, there are 6 other energy centers that build upon the foundation and provide an even deeper relationship. I've found that even as a kid, I wasn't focused constantly on sex as much as others. I always remember wanting a total union instead. Within the past 8 years though..I seem to want to express my love like others in here have said. 4th density light related? I also had some green ray blockage released at the beginning of it. But I still seek that spiritual union of course. I have no interest in guys, but I definitely identify with feminine energy more. I come from a long lineage of kind souls, and spent most of my time growing up around my mother and grandmother, so gentleness is just my nature. What I hate most about being here is the abrasive macho insecure masculine bulls**t! I hate it!!!! You can feel it everywhere. I think it's just the vibration in general though.

[Meerie]

Derek, Osho is similar to Ra in that aspect... he says that if you love your man / woman you want them to be happy. And if they were happy, having sex with another, then why not let them have it?
Love without any kind of possession.
Of course very few (married) couples are able to view this topic as relaxed as that. It is still mostly about possession... "I will marry you so I have all for myself. Boah did you just look at that woman / guy over there? how could you do this to me?"
I hate the macho bullshit as well. So many guys have this very dense material aura around them. A total turn-off.
Anyway I think guys who are into the spiritual have it easier to find a girl with similar interests.
My ex just used to laugh at my spiritual interests, ridicule them.

[native]

Osho is always a pleasure to listen to..though I haven't read any of his books. I wish I would have discovered his Book of Secrets long ago, but now I have too much else to read!

I think open relationships have their place, yes, but I think working towards a more unified relationship is ideal.

[Meerie]

I am not even sure if I could want an open relationship myself
All I can say is that I have been the third girl in a relationship, the affair so to speak.
It sucked, but not so much because I was the affair, and not the official girlfriend / spouse , but because it always had to be kept secret :@
And in the end it is unfair toward the other woman. I wouldn't do it again.

[3DMonkey]

I agree with these views on celibacy.

Like anything, too much of one thing is not good. If my thinking about sex started leaning toward selfgratification and further down the STS path, a celibate hiatus could help me set my mind back on the right track. Too much celibacy can eventually tip thoughts right back to STS thinking via suppression and control, torture to self even.

I am currently "on the wagon" since new years. I had gotten into what I viewed as a destructive use of alcohol, so my spirit asked that I take a break. I feel good about it, positive. Currently, the hiatus is strengthening me. I don't imagine myself quitting forever, and I have placed no burden on myself that it is "bad" or "wrong". Right now, I'm simply enjoying myself without it. It's not torture. I was at a place where one wasn't enough and always led to seven more. I can refuse the one with ease, but after that one... Woohoo ;-).
TMI. Celibacy can be good if it is good for YOU. If you enjoy NOT doing it because you feel better without it, it is good. If you are forcing yourself in order to achieve a preconceived result, eh, I'm a little worried.

---

I am not even sure if I could want an open relationship myself
All I can say is that I have been the third girl in a relationship, the affair so to speak.
It sucked, but not so much because I was the affair, and not the official girlfriend / spouse , but because it always had to be kept secret :@
And in the end it is unfair toward the other woman. I wouldn't do it again.

not for me. Not at this juncture of my life. I have everything I want in this department.

[Ankh]

Very beautiful post, my brother. You expressed what has been in my mind and I've been trying to say this but not been able to find words.

I really love what Ra has said in terms of freely giving love. In several statements it seems to me that Ra has alluded to them having been a very sexually liberated group. They slept around! A group of friends were probably very, very close I see this as healthy. Sex whenever you need or want it..sounds great to me..just to express a friendship.

It really echoes right to me too. There is nothing wrong or perverted in this activity, only a pure, beautiful desire to share and open yourself up together with the unblocked gateway of red center. But after centuries of perverted sex on this Earth, I wonder how gaians see statements like that. Maybe they need to "clean" the past first, by finding a true beauty in this activity by being with one partner, seeking the purity of this desire/activity, and then move on...

Our idea of sex is so repressed and perverted on this planet, it makes having sex with a friend for fun or in celebration sound unnatural. How can this be? Repressing sex is cultural..it's learned behavior. If we were more liberated, we wouldn't be as focused on it. It would just be a natural part of living..instead of building up the hornymones!

I agree with all of it wholeheartedly.

Ultimately though, there are 6 other energy centers that build upon the foundation and provide an even deeper relationship.

Yes. And as there are some souls that one has been having many intimate incarnations with, one might find it pleasant to seek further penetration of higher energy centers with those. And it is a whole different thing compare with intimate union with others, friends, to seek other aspects of relationships. These two activities and ways of seeking the Creator can be done simultaneously and independant from each other. The one has nothing to do with the other. Although I am not sure it can be pursued on planet Earth at this time.

P.S. By the way, you were up late this night.

---

My ex just used to laugh at my spiritual interests, ridicule them.

That is sad. My partner is an atheist. We have strong mutual respect for each others views, but still they are like night and day. Complete opposites. And sometimes I get sad about that.

[3DMonkey]

We choose our partners for a reason. What if you two had a relationship in a previous life and the roles were reversed? What if, in the past life, your partners said something like, "when we meet in the next life, I'm going to teach you what it feels like to be with an atheist."

Too easy?

[Ankh]

Too easy?

Yup. I would go with this - he is 3/4D+ graduate. Doesn't know what a spirit is yet. Haven't started the search. So there comes Ankh, a deeply spiritual soul running happily in the sacred realms of the Creator and hears the call for help. And what does Ankh say in the true form - I am a humble servant of One and do whatever is required of me, no matter personal costs. What does Ankh say after incarnating in 3D - *whine*whine*whine*

[native]

It sucked, but not so much because I was the affair, and not the official girlfriend / spouse , but because it always had to be kept secret :@
And in the end it is unfair toward the other woman. I wouldn't do it again.

What was your reasoning in pursuing it?

---

Like anything, too much of one thing is not good.

Mhm, over-activation. As far as alcohol, I was never someone who needed a drink but I can tell you that once you stop drinking, for me at least I noticed considerable changes in my seeking. I was a heavy social drinker that slowed down to a once a week thing, which I eventually stop too. I firmly believe that alcohol is fertile ground for negative manipulation..not just when you're drunk, but in general.

[Ocean]

do you guys drink? i know Carla drinks. i quit a few months ago.

[3DMonkey]

Different drinks do different things. Vodka- can't touch it, it's fast acting and knocks me out before I know it. Beer- nice and slow dehydration, tastes so good. Wine- relaxing, yawns come before a buzz. Tequila- my favorito! No antihistamines toward it, clean and fun.

I quick by instinct January third. I'll pick it back up again when my wife does (pregnant).

Ocean, we are nondrinking twinkies.

[native]

But after centuries of perverted sex on this Earth, I wonder how gaians see statements like that. Maybe they need to "clean" the past first, by finding a true beauty in this activity by being with one partner, seeking the purity of this desire/activity, and then move on...

It's possible! You can definitely see the blockage in many aspects. People aren't faithful, marriages don't last, and no one really truly knows each other. They're not connecting on a higher level because they're having issues with expressing the lower energy centers. Negative manipulation only takes it further, as people pursue themselves for their own gratification.

Here in the US online dating is becoming a driving force in how people find who they're looking for..at least this is what the mind polluting commercials tell me. People are becoming so inept at connecting with each other, that they seem to think the answer lies in a website. No it doesn't! Just talk to people about real things when you meet them! No friggin website is needed, just a real expressive connection.

Yes. And as there are some souls that one has been having many intimate incarnations with, one might find it pleasant to seek further penetration of higher energy centers with those. And it is a whole different thing compare with intimate union with others, friends, to seek other aspects of relationships. These two activities and ways of seeking the Creator can be done simultaneously and independant from each other. The one has nothing to do with the other. Although I am not sure it can be pursued on planet Earth at this time.

I would agree. I'm sure in 6d there are a few souls that you develop an intricate harmony with.

---

Yup. I would go with this - he is 3/4D+ graduate. Doesn't know what a spirit is yet. Haven't started the search. So there comes Ankh, a deeply spiritual soul running happily in the sacred realms of the Creator and hears the call for help. And what does Ankh say in the true form - I am a humble servant of One and do whatever is required of me, no matter personal costs. What does Ankh say after incarnating in 3D - *whine*whine*whine*

Lol, quite an honorable act of you! I think the purpose of atheism is a whole a whole other thread in itself. And yes, I was up really late! I'm very tired :-/

---

do you guys drink? i know Carla drinks. i quit a few months ago.

I don't drink anymore..only if there is a party or something going on. It's a once a month thing, if that. I've been drunk maybe 3 times since November.

[Ankh]

do you guys drink? i know Carla drinks. i quit a few months ago.

I take a beer 1-2 times a week. There is a pleasure in all pleasant activities of "Earthly" kind so long you not harm anyone and feel good about it.

[Brittany]

I met my husband on a dating website, and we've got a wonderful, fulfilling marriage. I was ready to try something new after a string of unsuccessful relationships that all seemed to arise from the same type of circumstances. For me, that website was just what I needed. I think the intent is more important than the method used to locate potential partners. If a person is looking for a cheap lay, has little respect for themselves or their partner, and has no idea in their mind what they even want to pursue in their relationships with others, I think they'll be just as likely to have a blockage meeting a person in a bar, or even a church service. Still, I realize that some of those websites openly cater to people who are looking for red/orange ray gratification and encourage such behavior, and I would think that in those circumstances, one's own discretion would come into play.

It does call to mind, however, how some people seem develop their entire life within a computer. You have couples that will text each other when they're in the same room...at that point, I think blockages on numerous levels are more than evident. You can't rely on a piece of technology to babysit your relationship.

I really can't drink...my body doesn't tolerate alcohol well and the physical side effects aren't worth any brief buzz I might get going. I also had bad experiences with several alcoholics as a child, which pretty much turned me off to drinking in general. Same thing with drugs and cigarettes. I was addicted to the medication the shrinks put me on for a good while, and that in itself was hell for me. I've found that, for me, the clearest and most useful mode of existence in this incarnation is a sober one.

[3DMonkey]

My wife and I will have arguments settled via email... While we are in the same house. We agree that they are ridiculous arguments but stuff needs to get out sometimes. And the kids don't have to listen to it. Also, texting is the only way we can hear each other over the kids.

----
as for marriage problems in the U S, I think it all stems from persons not aware of what they bring to a marriage, in aware of what their partner brings to the marriage, and vice versa. This leads to a lot of confusion down they road.

[kycahi]

When I was young, I thought about "doing it" a lot. Now I think about sex as a topic to understand better. I may even put my ideas down to see if they make sense when written.

I won't expound on all that here, but will make a few observations. First, 3D life often combines more reasons than one to have experiences. We have sex to reproduce, of course.

We also do it sexually rather than by cell division or something, because it increases the genetic diversity, greatly speeding up evolution and/or adaptation.

Mother Nature drives us to doing sex for the ecstatic pleasure of it, which can be a lifestyle in itself, but she overwhelmingly just wants us to exchange DNA and make more entities. If humans didn't do enough of that, nobody would be here.

Somewhere in the middle of their bell-shaped curve, young women find older men attractive. They have reasons in their head, such as "He's so cool; he's been around and knows things; I bet he's good in bed!" Mom Nature's reason for wiring young women to have those ideas is that an older man must have good genes to get him to live that long.

Likewise older men, in around the middle of their bell-shaped curve, find younger women attractive. Their wiring prompts them to think "She's so smooth and cute and devoid of cynicism. I want to experience her joy and innocence!" Mom nature wires them to think that way because this younger woman is likely to live long enough to bring his children to adulthood.

Finally, I'll stop with this observation of Nature's cruelty: Men typically stay attractive for more years than do women. The reason, IMO, is that men can continue to sow their seeds for a long time and benefit the genetic diversity. Women, IMO, typically lose their attractiveness so they won't be tempted to stray from raising their gene-bearing children.

I like this thread and everybody's posts! Please don't let my clinical discussion above stop anyone from exploring the poetry and beauty of sexuality. It's glorious and wondrous and hugely beneficial to our lives, 3D and beyond.

All flavors of sex, straight, bi, gay etc., excellent and disappointing, add to the collective experience of the One.

[Ankh]

Yeah, kycahi, that was kind of clinical way of how to put it. Yet, I am not sure, if I agree. These aspects you bringing up are of course all true, and yet, there is so much more to it. If it was only about reproducing, then why have orgasms, sungasms and similar? We would experience a need, familiar to other needs. If you are hungry - you feel hunger and eat. If you are thirsty - you feel thirst and drink. If you need to reproduce - you have a need and reproduce. But there is more to it than that, is it not? There is something that is calling and beging us to discover it. IMHO, that something is an urge to unite on far greater levels than just to reproduce. As we all are on our way back to the absolute merging with all that there is, let's start with perhaps, one? Then two? Then many? Then all of it?

[3DMonkey]

When I see young women, I admit, I do have the primal lust desire. The older I get, like kyachi said, anything with smooth skin is attractive.

With that said, as I get older, I can also see instantly that it is primal and that there is no true connection to be had there. Of course, I would never act on it. But nowadays, I see them, and my thoughts go to being a positive influence on them. Perhaps it is fatherly. But I think it is more consciously channeling love. Some of you will focus more on this next statement that my entire post... Sexual intercourse ruins most relationships. If two people can consciously recognize the passion they share for one another, they can avoid "swallowing the bubble gum", and put that great potential energy toward other things and be even more fulfilled.

---

The electricity generates from standing on the edge of the abyss. Once you jump, it's all used up. I imagine unrealized passion as a great force. Use the force.

[kycahi]

Yeah, kycahi, that was kind of clinical way of how to put it. Yet, I am not sure, if I agree. These aspects you bringing up are of course all true, and yet, there is so much more to it. If it was only about reproducing, then why have orgasms, sungasms and similar? We would experience a need, familiar to other needs. If you are hungry - you feel hunger and eat. If you are thirsty - you feel thirst and drink. If you need to reproduce - you have a need and reproduce. But there is more to it than that, is it not? There is something that is calling and beging us to discover it. IMHO, that something is an urge to unite on far greater levels than just to reproduce. As we all are on our way back to the absolute merging with all that there is, let's start with perhaps, one? Then two? Then many? Then all of it?

We agree, I think, Ankh. It's just that needing to reproduce, which many partners or both feel, doesn't hold a candle to lusting to "do it" for 3D productivity.

Truly when both partners want children they likely will be good parents (both of mine did and were, by and large--I was an enormous challenge ). Nevertheless, counting the entire existence of 3D entities on this planet, lust brought more newbies into the world, IMO.

With the rest of what you said, the calling and begging, I agree and like how you said it. Further, we are moving right along into 4D sexually, and away from my simple 3D scenario. More are liberated enough to get the simple red-orange-yellow lust over with and grow into all the colors of sexual consciousness.

Good for us!

[Brittany]

I've usually desired older men for the maturity factor. Every relationship I've had with a guy younger than me has broken off, in part, due to his childish behavior and his wanting me to be his mom. Not that I haven't met young men who were very mature. I've also met men who were quite older than me that still acted like toddlers, but when I go for older guys, it usually has to do with their ability to manage grown up life instead of expecting mommy to pamper them and clean up their messes, not their experience in bed.

I really have no desire whatsoever to have children, and am lucky to have a husband who accepts that, so kids really don't factor into my marriage at all. I can't even fathom the thought of having kids running around...to me that would be a nightmare I couldn't escape from.

I don't see why sex can't be viewed from both a biological and metaphysical viewpoint. I don't think anyone can argue that there isn't a biological component to sex...if we didn't have it, there would be no people, and obviously the fact that it induces feelings of pleasure helps in persuading us to breed. If it felt awful, people would be a lot more reluctant to do it.

Still, how can two people be so intimately connected and NOT experience metaphysical repercussions? Ra goes on for pages and pages about the metaphysical benefits/downfalls of sex. If I remember correctly, they described the fact that children are conceived through sex as more of a happy side effect, with the main focus being on the metaphysical component. Our Logos was just clever enough to stick it all together and give us one big, super amazing catalyst to experience on multiple levels at once...a form of speed learning, in my opinion.

Quite a few people can have sex their whole lives and not give a single thought to the spiritual qualities of their actions, but for those who realize its sacredness, this act of Creator knowing Itself opens up a whole new world of joy and communion. I believe this is one example of what Ra speaks of when they mention "seeking the jewel"...

I totally agree that a relationship with sex as its main focus is likely to fail. No matter how great it is, sex isn't a band-aid that can be placed over the hurts that come from disregarding each other's feelings, lack of honest communication and conflict of interests. If it was supposed to be that way, we would probably have genitals instead of mouths. Sex is one tool in the toolbox of seeking. You can't fix a complex machine with a single tool, but having that tool at the right time can certainly make a world of difference.

[3DMonkey]

And just for you cougars out there feeling left out, don't worry, my red Ray energy has A dog's worth of nasty thoughts.
Yeehaw!

I'll never act on it though. Sorry to disappoint...

[Confused]

Finally, I'll stop with this observation of Nature's cruelty: Men typically stay attractive for more years than do women. The reason, IMO, is that men can continue to sow their seeds for a long time and benefit the genetic diversity. Women, IMO, typically lose their attractiveness so they won't be tempted to stray from raising their gene-bearing children.

That makes lot of sense. The logos is perfectly capable of devising and implementing such logic, and indeed it has, I think.

[Monica]

I don't see why sex can't be viewed from both a biological and metaphysical viewpoint. I don't think anyone can argue that there isn't a biological component to sex.

I can't imagine anyone denying the biological component of sex. Indeed, throughout history, most people probably weren't even aware that it was anything other than biological!

Metaphysically, the biological component is the red ray energy.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I've had a rather unique experience regarding sex, I feel. I believe that my experiences so far are because of preincarnative agreements, for reasons I can only speculate on but am completely comfortable with, now anyways.

From the perspective of most "normal people" (the average among my friends, anyways), I've had a rather sexless life. I had two serious long relationships during my teen years, in which both girls were waiting to have sex (one for marriage, one until she moved out of her parents'). They were sexually active relationships though, we just never went "all the way." They were very healthy relationships sexually and otherwise in a teenage sense, being able to safely explore sexuality with others as curious and innocent as I. However, they were nowhere near conducive to allowing me to understand the true potential behind sex in a spiritual sense.

I'm almost 5 years out from the latter of those relationships, have been single ever since, and have had sex with one person since then during a three day fling. It was before my spiritual awakening, and was pretty forced on my part. I felt frustrated because I was a 22 year old male, living in a house with 4 other guys who had sex all the time and loved to boast and talk about it. I never looked at sex as they did, in a "typical male" sense, but not only did I feel pressure from social norms, I felt (and still feel) I was missing out on an amazing part of life.

Why have I lived my life in a perpetual dry-spell? I fully believe it has been a preincarnative agreement to reach a certain point of spiritual awareness in my life before I entered a sexually active relationship. I've had an active social life and have met plenty of girls, but ever since my last relationship 5 years ago I have not been drawn to any girls, and no girls to me. It just hasn't happened. The relationships I have been in have basically just happened, without any effort or planning to find a partner. I've gone through several periods of extreme loneliness, feeling like there was a void in my life that someone needed to come along and fill, trying to think of ways to find a mate.

I had to learn that the void had to be filled myself. A lot of people search for a mate to become their "other half," and when they're single they feel like they live "half a life," etc etc. I feel the preincarnative agreements partially had to do with helping me learn that I was a whole person on my own as quickly and easily as possible, without disturbance from romantic relationships to confuse me. When I meet someone, I don't want them to complete me, and I don't want to complete them. I want two complete energies, coming together to create a brighter third.

Another reason for the preincarnative agreements have to do with the fact that being outside of a typical human society relationship, I've been able to shed most of my notions on how a relationship is supposed to be. Relationships in our 3D society tend to imply ownership of the other person. In typical relationships, we feel we have a right to know that person in a way that no one else can, as if they are our property, our belonging. We want to restrict them from interacting with others in the same way they interact with us (sexually, etc) because we feel like if they love someone else, they will have love for us less. "If my girlfriend is sleeping with someone else, that's less attention and energy for ME. She's mine and you can't have her!" Who am I to say where her attention goes? Why should I stop her from doing something she wants to do?

Another aspect of relationships in our society that I've been able to dissect and throw away is the "break up" period. I've never known anyone in my life to have a pleasant breakup. But I personally feel like, if I were committed to someone and it stopped working out, then there is a reason it stopped working out. We are not supposed to be together any more...and that's okay with me! It should really be a happy thing, parting with someone and being comfortable with it, knowing that you aren't losing anything by saying goodbye to that person. Breaking up should not be a loss to me, it should be a mutual understanding that this is how life works...things change, and sometimes you have to move on and experience new things to get the most out of life. The experience you had with that person is timeless...it cannot be lost.

I'm completely okay with the idea of an open relationship, though I would not have a problem with an exclusive relationship, as I understand there is virtue there and it is a valid spiritual path to take.

I honestly believe that my sexless life has led me to a very open understanding about sex and relationships, and I can't see my lonely experience to this point doing anything but serving me in the future.

But, I feel very deep in my heart that I am very close to meeting someone incredibly special, and this is a very exciting feeling for me

[native]

I met my husband on a dating website, and we've got a wonderful, fulfilling marriage.

No no, I didn't mean they're not useful in essence. I just meant that many people are having difficulties of fully expressing themselves to the other, or being honest with themselves, and instead find out that it's not going to work.

This is why older singles become less picky. Because they eventually learn to accept the perceived negative eccentricities, and instead seek to connect with someone on a deeper level.

[Meerie]

It sucked, but not so much because I was the affair, and not the official girlfriend / spouse , but because it always had to be kept secret :@
And in the end it is unfair toward the other woman. I wouldn't do it again.

What was your reasoning in pursuing it?

---

Well there are not so many good men out here... what do you do when you meet a guy, fall madly in love and he is married? (yes of course, abstain )) But I was young and naive. And some of them even told me they would leave their wife, since their relationship was so bad
Of course they never did.

[native]

abridgetoofar - My story in regards to sex and all of the life experience conclusions mirror yours. We have very much lived the same life..you're not alone brother! I too perpetually ran into stumbling blocks that I can only come to the conclusion were for preincarnative reasons. It only crystallized my direction of seeking. I have had my fun now, but I know what I want. I don't think there is a void to fill, but would word it as having to learn how to accept myself and know that I am perfect. People naturally want to feel validated and accepted, but it is necessary to learn to love and accept yourself as being perfect. Great story..thanks for sharing!

---

Well there are not so many good men out here... what do you do when you meet a guy, fall madly in love and he is married? (yes of course, abstain )) But I was young and naive. And some of them even told me they would leave their wife, since their relationship was so bad
Of course they never did.

How scandalous, shame shame! The mistakes we make in the name of "love" makes one want to throw themselves off a cliff.

[Meerie]

How scandalous, shame shame! The mistakes we make in the name of "love" makes one want to throw themselves off a cliff.

Haha, yes... you know I always thought love conquers all. I mean, I really loved them and I felt so sorry for them being in such crappy relationships. I sometimes cannot believe how naive I actually was.
But they probably thought "sex conquers all".