dual bodied and ayahuasca/time dilation

[3DMonkey]

hmmmm. I just remembered my past. In high school, I knew a guy that was trypping and "witnessed god and the devil battle in front of him, and the devil won." He really did, because this guy became literally insane. He wasn't aware anymore. He spoke of himself in the third person. ( I'm one of the types that he wouldn't get "crazy" in my presence. So I got to really listen to him). He was pleased that he had found a body that possessed so much energy. ( he was a fireball ). He had written names/symbols on each of his fingers and spoke of each one as an individual entity. I synchronictically* ran into him around town. One time he was actively condemning a church, going in and shouting "crazy talk." I think seeing me and group of friends calmed him down, and he was babbling about chopping off his left hand so that his right hand wouldn't know what it was doing. He eventually entered a psychiatric holding facility where his brother says he tried to escape by using his head to pound through shatterproof glass.

Bad stuff can happen....

[turtledude23]

hmmmm. I just remembered my past. In high school, I knew a guy that was trypping and "witnessed god and the devil battle in front of him, and the devil won." He really did, because this guy became literally insane. He wasn't aware anymore. He spoke of himself in the third person. ( I'm one of the types that he wouldn't get "crazy" in my presence. So I got to really listen to him). He was pleased that he had found a body that possessed so much energy. ( he was a fireball ). He had written names/symbols on each of his fingers and spoke of each one as an individual entity. I synchronictically* ran into him around town. One time he was actively condemning a church, going in and shouting "crazy talk." I think seeing me and group of friends calmed him down, and he was babbling about chopping off his left hand so that his right hand wouldn't know what it was doing. He eventually entered a psychiatric holding facility where his brother says he tried to escape by using his head to pound through shatterproof glass.

Bad stuff can happen....

Someone who already has a mental illness or who will eventually have one (e.g. schizophrenia usually doesn't kick in until late teens or early 20s) can make it worse by taking psychedelics. Regular people can have bad trips by being in a bad environment and mindset, but whether it could make them go crazy I don't know, Ra said it randomly opens the gateway to intelligent infinity so I guess its possible but I'd like to say most bad trips only happened someone took too high of a dose and even then weren't as common as the mainstream media makes them out to be because of the nature of the media (e.g. you're not gonna here this on the news tonight: local teen discovers the true nature of reality on LSD trip).

[Ocean]

case in point. that's why i do not like hallucinogens and take it very seriously.

---

DW says DMT can leave the pineal open. this is exactly what i do not want.

[3DMonkey]

(e.g. you're not gonna here this on the news tonight: local teen discovers the true nature of reality on LSD trip).

Hahahahahahaha. NO, certainly not. Or if so, it would be scoffed at.

---

case in point. that's why i do not like hallucinogens and take it very seriously.

---

DW says DMT can leave the pineal open. this is exactly what i do not want.

Oh just have fun with your open pineal gland. Have fun with it girl. Being crazy could be a fun existence. I can see it now

[Ocean]

i've had a lidetime of crazy.

[native]

hmmmm. I just remembered my past. In high school, I knew a guy that was trypping and "witnessed god and the devil battle in front of him, and the devil won." He really did, because this guy became literally insane. He wasn't aware anymore. He spoke of himself in the third person. ( I'm one of the types that he wouldn't get "crazy" in my presence. So I got to really listen to him). He was pleased that he had found a body that possessed so much energy. ( he was a fireball ). He had written names/symbols on each of his fingers and spoke of each one as an individual entity. I synchronictically* ran into him around town. One time he was actively condemning a church, going in and shouting "crazy talk." I think seeing me and group of friends calmed him down, and he was babbling about chopping off his left hand so that his right hand wouldn't know what it was doing. He eventually entered a psychiatric holding facility where his brother says he tried to escape by using his head to pound through shatterproof glass.

Bad stuff can happen....

That was with LSD though, right? It is one of the dangerous ones, mostly because you have no idea what the hell you're taking. You could easily eat a LD50 (lethal dose) without even knowing, or something close enough to it that causes permanent damage like you described. It's just a piece of paper..you don't know the strength.

So say with psilocybin, which is one of the least toxic of all the psychedelics, the lethal dose is impossible to reach because you have to eat much more than you actually weigh. The average figure is close to 2 tons worth that you have to eat! So, psilocybin will not make you insane. What you're eating is a minute amount.

In fact, listen to podcast 156: Treating childhood schizophrenia with psychedelics. http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon/index...ary+fisher

He used psilocbyin and they became people able to function on a normal level. Can you imagine? There's a story of a girl who never spoke past the age of 3 (there's a reason why). She eventually became severely psychotic to the point where her body was shutting down. Gary gave her psilocybin or lsd, I can't remember but she eventually became a loving individual. They mostly used psilocybin with her. In this case, intelligent infinity/energy who knows what was tapped and was used to heal. The story is incredibly heartwarming and will make you cry.

I personally wouldn't do lsd. I see nothing wrong with psilocybin though. I've never heard a case of anyone going insane from them.

[Ocean]

severely psychotic can be loving too.

[3DMonkey]

Interesting.

Yes, I'm sure it was LSD. And likely too much by intention. His or his crafty brother's.

So get out the hoosegow and order some psilocybin.

[Ocean]

hoosegow?

[native]

Interestingly enough, as they were holding her down from injuring herself, she was just screaming bloody murder through her first session..they kept asking what's wrong?? What's wrong???

The first words she ever spoke to them were..she screamed something like "Leave me alone!! I'm going through what I have to!!!!!" Later on, she would refer to the room where the sessions take place as "Where you go to talk to God." This was a person who was so psychotic that her body was shutting down.

Make sure you listen to the podcast!! It will make you cry.

---

Off to work!

[Ocean]

it seems she wanted it.

[3DMonkey]

hoosegow?

My extreme eccentricity. That's how ayahuasca is pronounced, right? ;-)

I rock a little know how
no time for the piggies or the hoosegow

Give it away now

---

Alright, I'm very curious about psilocybin now.

1.) are we allowed to talk about growing it? I found the book mentioned on wikipedia. Is it worth ordering? Anybody grow it before?

2.) can you give me a doctors note to hand my wife?

[Ocean]

i think hallucinogens are still a short cut to spirituality and i don't like the idea of them. i have a friend who does mushrooms and thinks they're awesome.

[hogey11]

I have recently gotten very interested in ayahuasca as well. A few things i've noted is that apparently you should NEVER take it alone; even the most powerful shamans will not take ayahuasca by themselves. Having those who love you and are in similar mindset is extremely important.

Also, a trademark of many ayahuasca trips is that the first thing you must do is die... Sign me up! (nervous face) It is legal to procure, but its pretty intense for an amateur methinks...


I have experience with psilocybin tho. In my experience, 1.5g or less is a very interesting experience. I had the emotional amplification off the start, but not to a crazy high (or low), and I just kinda settled in by a campfire for the night. What was cool about this night was that during this 'trip', I imagined (or was given) a "system" in which the world existed as vibrations or relative speeds of light. I saw the fire in front of me, and there was a powerful river nearby that was cold and black. I saw the spectrum of light and lack of it, and how we each register within it. Basically, in my opinion, it was my first true exposure to the LOO ideas/material, albeit in very imperfect form (ie: i was tripping on shrooms and was drinking beers). That being said, there was something within my crazy-ass thoughts that resonated, and I cherished the moment.

The other option is the full on 3-5g trip, which is a whole different beast. My very first time, I left my room after starting to really feel the effects (we made tea from 3-4g) and threw in a DVD of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. Fast-forward 20 mins and I was crying on the couch of laughter at the costumes worn. We took off and made our way to the beach on-campus at university. At this time, the best way to describe the feeling is that you feel like a small child. You are seeing things in completely different ways. Everything is interesting. Your ego is totally ripped away, and you feel whatever it is you feel without abandon.

This is where bad trips come from - unfinished business. If you have something bothering you, and you trip on psilocybin, that fear/worry will attack you at 110%. By going in with the proper mindset and environment (set and setting), you can ensure that you have only positive experiences (luckily, like myself).

I kind want to do some psilocybin before my baby is born. I feel like it would be the equivalent of a Vince Lombardi inspirational speech right before I join the ranks of parenthood. Y'know... get my head in the game!

Oh, 3DM, you can find them in many cattle fields, not sure you'd have to grow...

[3DMonkey]

I've done shrooms once. It must've been a small dose. At most it was extrasensory. Mmmm, its sounds good... Although, my worries of my wife's wrath would probably cause me to freak out LOL

[Ocean]

thanks for sharing Hogey. i like how Graham Hancock talks about it. why can't you take it alone?

[Confused]

Although, my worries of my wife's wrath would probably cause me to freak out LOL

May be it can be sorted out by email from within the house

No, I am not going to become the derailing kook here.

---

severely psychotic can be loving too.

Ocean, you come across as a very understanding and sensitive soul. Good to know you as a b4th friend. Thanks.

By the way, I resonate with what you said about hallucinogens probably being a short-cut to enlightenment.

This creation demands us to work hard with discipline. It does not allow that easy of a way to its most blissful liberty, unless through the land of discipline and will. But Ra said sometimes entities could touch intelligent infinity by accident. Do not understand what it mean there!!

[3DMonkey]

Too late.

Naw. This one would take bribes or a year of kissing a**. And I'd be grounded from bring4th

[drifting pages]

I would rather take DMT (the active substance found in ayahuasca)

Reason ?

DMT is quick(inhale) no drinking and waiting (and vomiting)with rituals i don't care for.

I have read some wonderful experiences people had with DMT

In essence what this substance is doing is opening the doors that we already have inside.

Our brains naturally produce trace amounts of DMT.

[Ocean]

C, i think that we can touch on infinite intelligence by accident but that is not the same as reaching it through inner work, which leads to us being mature and understanding/adept at handling it. sure you can take drugs and pop into time/space like any spacemonkey, that's not the part we're here to learn imo. and it's not the path i want to take as i see it as a path that lacks the real lessons/benefits, which is a slow understanding of self and god, clearing issues and becoming a master. shortcuts are dangerous, or everyone would be doing it. but everyone has free will to choose.

drifter, trace amounts naturally is different from taking something from outside the body. i'm actually looking forward to the vomiting, as this is a clearing process. healing process. from what i get. of course i could be wrong. i dunno if the people who got f***** up from these substances are in condition to write about it. so of course all we hear is positive. i dunno. i'm gonna check erowid.

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and thank you C for your kind words. lol.

[Confused]

C, i think that we can touch on infinite intelligence by accident but that is not the same as reaching it through inner work, which leads to us being mature and understanding/adept at handling it. sure you can take drugs and pop into time/space like any spacemonkey, that's not the part we're here to learn imo. and it's not the path i want to take as i see it as a path that lacks the real lessons/benefits, which is a slow understanding of self and god, clearing issues and becoming a master. shortcuts are dangerous, or everyone would be doing it. but everyone has free will to choose.

'becoming a master' - hmmm, that is quite a good one to think and ruminate over, Ocean.

Do you think mastery involves suppression, Ocean? I ask that because Ra says suppression is usually of the STS path, while acceptance that of the STO. And mastery usually means control over yourself, isn't it? May be it is all just semantics, but I am confused. That is why I am C, I guess

And you deserve the kind words, like so many other beautiful folk on b4th.

[turtledude23]

DMT extract lasts like 10 minutes if anyone is wondering. So does salvia.

Lots of legal entheogens in north america http://www.100herbgalaxy.com/ you can make ayahuasca at home. some good alternatives I've read about are yopo and mimosa.

[zenmaster]

repression and suppression are different. Ra talks about repression in relation to STS attitudes.
http://www.trans4mind.com/jamesharveystout/repress.htm

Mastery is not the result of slavery or control, it's the result of learning or discipline, or whatever it takes to finally accept the person you already are, as described in Q/A 5.2.

[Confused]

repression and suppression are different. Ra talks about repression in relation to STS attitudes.
http://www.trans4mind.com/jamesharveystout/repress.htm

Mastery is not the result of slavery or control, it's the result of learning or discipline, or whatever it takes to finally accept the person you already are, as described in Q/A 5.2.

The trans4mind link put things in so much better perspective, Zen. Thank you very much for that.

I now understand that STS has to do with repression rather than suppression. A very subtle difference exists, but the resultant outcome is of divergent paths. Thanks.

[native]

And weren't the pyramids also a short-cut? They were an intensely more powerful and efficient one too There is nothing wrong with wanting to experience mushrooms or ayahuasca. I'm not encouraging it or condoning it.

The pyramids were used to initiate 3d beings though. It could be said that psychedelics are more for 3d beings. If you consider yourself a wanderer, it is always best to seek spiritual knowledge within yourself.

I would argue that psychedelics have always played a major role in 3rd DENSITY development. All belief systems other than the obvious ones, have shamans. Shamans pull their knowledge from psychedelics. Much of our spiritual philosophies came from shamanic principles by way of anthropology. The psychedelic revolution contributed greatly and had a ripple effect. The philosophies and the attraction to Eastern concepts remained, as the hippies who got lost in the drugs burnt out. A seed was planted though.

I will also say that I obviously believe that wanderers are most responsible for the spiritual change that has taken place here. However, the information that has been available for wanderers to pursue, in many cases came from psychedelics. It permeated our culture and created change. Now what I'm saying is, that here in the density of forgetting, the knowledge gained from other 3d beings through THEIR use of these psychedelics is a connecting link that is helpful to a wanderer. The information is helpful. Wanderer's shouldn't be seeking knowledge through psychedelics.

What can be said for certain though, is that the counterculture and psychedelic revolution happened for a reason. I don't always like the phrase "happened for a reason", so I'll say instead that it had its purpose and it was positive.

3DM - It's against the forum rules to go into details like that here, my friend. Look up Paul Stamets

I was born awake in many respects, then came into full realization after reading eastern philosophies and new age topics. What's interesting is that many of my beliefs were then refined by listening to psychedelic lectures and the concepts discussed without having taken any at that time. I then discovered the Law of One which brought completion.

So without experiencing psychedelics, reading about what others experienced and the spiritual philosophies gained from these experiences, the body of work that is available helped me to exercise concepts and find truth without having to even do psychedelics. Being a wanderer will obviously be the greatest contributing factor though, as the truth is only waiting to be remembered.

Up until now, I have only taken psilocybin once. This was after quite a few years of research on psychedelics and reflection on the issue.

The only thing I will share, is that at the peak of my journey, my perspective became that of the Creator and I experienced intelligent infinity..or whatever it was. I was astonished as to where I found myself, and I was very much connected to time/space experiencing the eternal present that's spoken of in relation to the octave.

I'll also say that I experienced death and rebirth. You feel as if you're fading out of existence..that what you identify as the self is giving way. When it is over, you know you are connected to time/space and you arrive with a greater awareness. So the feeling of death is this transition. This is what the pyramids do. Afterwards, I was actually grateful for the experience of death. Even more so the next day.

65.20 Ra: I am Ra. One meets the self in the center or deeps of the being. The so-called resonating chamber may be likened unto the symbology of the burial and resurrection of the body wherein the entity dies to self and through this confrontation of apparent loss and realization of essential gain, is transmuted into a new and risen being.

Again, at the peak I reached a state of entering deeper into the present moment which grew to where I thought I was never coming back. Or rather, I didn't have to come back. Don't perceive that as sounding negative. Timelessness! Perhaps the best way to describe it, is that you realize that what you are experiencing is the true nature of awareness. I personally felt love in the sense that Ra speaks of love in the beginning of creation. Not love, the emotional feeling. This is why there is so much laughter in the process, because your perspective shifts more towards the Creator reveling in the absurdity of the contradictions of positive/negative in infinity. It is the cosmic giggle.

My experience was a positive one. Also, I will say that I have never laughed as hard in my entire life. I feel it's best that I not go into all the details and influence any decisions. I'd rather provide balance by saying that psilocybin taught me little so to speak in terms of great knowledge, because I had already done much inner-work and acquired knowledge through a lifetime of silent contemplation. With mushrooms, there is always the possibility of going into dark areas, and you definitely will confront them if you do them enough, and/or not do the inner-work.

If you consider yourself a wanderer, wanting to have an experience is fine, but I can only support B4th's position by saying that you shouldn't be hoping to find what you're looking for through psychedelics. You came here to aid the planet, and work with yourself by way of the veil.

When I said the psychedelic revolution was useful, I meant it was useful to 3d beings to break out of certain dogmas. I believe them to be a tool for 3d beings. The spiritual philosophies and truths gleaned from THEIR experiences, were helpful to creating a more open and diverse culture. The body of knowledge available to all is useful.

Of course, wanderers are the main contributing factor here.

As a wanderer, you have to be coming from a place within yourself that you know who you are and what is out of balance, while actively working towards balance before even coming close to deciding to have an experience. They are neither good or bad in the greater sense (with exception to the obvious ones that you should not do), but if you choose to have an experience, you must learn to accept and integrate what you discover.

[3DMonkey]

I'll just stick with dreams for spiritual work. If psychedelocs reach me through synchronicity, that'll be the day.

[zenmaster]

I now understand that STS has to do with repression rather than suppression. A very subtle difference exists, but the resultant outcome is of divergent paths. Thanks.

I think repression may be more a symptom, rather than a cause of negative polarization. With the negative polarity, there is a general bias or attitude that suggests control or domination is ideal. To support and nuture that attitude, the mind must learn to adapt - hence the need for repression.

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So without experiencing psychedelics, the spiritual knowledge gained from them helped me to exercise concepts and find truth. Being a wanderer will obviously be the greatest contributing factor though.

I look at the experience as similar to a UFO encounter or a near-death experience. It briefly suggests the vast potential of mind or spirit, in a transcendent sense, deeply contrasted with the mundane. Also a lot of 'mystery', because there is often no groundwork laid for the experience (it's a 'shortcut' to a state or a condition). This can be informative. It tends to be a deeply engaging experience where what you experience you 'know' is 'real' or meaningful. So you combine the experiential information with the deep reality and you often get transformation.

With the time/space perspective, it can be is as if things have been turned inside-out. You look at a person, say across the room, and you can read (or feel) their thoughts, emotion and attitude, all instantaneously, without thinking. That is not quite the transparency of seeing someone's entire soul-nature (say past lives), and it is not just the empathy of recognizing and sharing particular emotion. It is a remarkable degree of transparency into the state of one's mind.

There is also the sense of time not existing or flowing linearly, from past to present to future. We normally get feedback about the stream of time when we participate in any action - walking, for example. But with certain chemicals, this feedback can vanish and it creates a novel experience. It suggests that our physical minds play a huge mechanical or pre-processing role in how a series of events (such as subconscious continuity of time while walking) are perceived.

[Confused]

With the negative polarity, there is a general bias or attitude that suggests control or domination is ideal.

Could it also be due to random conditions, as entities proceed from 1D through 2D into the self-conscious aspect of densities?

I mean whether a 1D/2D aspect of the One Infinite Creator could get a raw deal in terms of gaining innate bias for negative polarity, just because random conditions placed it/them on a negative 3D planet.

Any thoughts, Zen/others?

[zenmaster]

With the negative polarity, there is a general bias or attitude that suggests control or domination is ideal.

Could it also be due to random conditions, as entities proceed from 1D through 2D into the self-conscious aspect of densities?

I mean whether a 1D/2D aspect of the One Infinite Creator could get a raw deal in terms of gaining innate bias for negative polarity, just because random conditions placed it/them on a negative 3D planet.

Any thoughts, Zen/others?

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a 'raw deal'. Third density is a choice - it has everything to do with using the will for self determination. In time/space we see everything and determine our future incarnation needs. The 'negative environment', is a choice (as well as what we choose to focus upon) - although one which must be discovered behind the veil.

In the creation, the random conditions are actually infinite in possibility. What appears to be only circumstantial placement is based on assessment of propriety and opportunity from the standpoint of highest ideals.

[Confused]

In the creation, the random conditions are actually infinite in possibility. What appears to be only circumstantial placement is based on assessment of propriety and opportunity from the standpoint of highest ideals.

Thanks, Zen, that was very helpful.