Why I am a Vegan

[Nía]

Oops, just stumbled upon this:

Here's Why Most Most of the Meat Americans Eat Is Banned in Other Industrialized Countries

-`ღ´-

[Plenum]

This Avocado Took Me Only 1 Hour To Hand-Carve

nice!

I should really get back into some avo's

[Jade]

Oops, just stumbled upon this:

Here's Why Most Most of the Meat Americans Eat Is Banned in Other Industrialized Countries

-`ღ´-

Learning about how ingrained the pharmaceutical industry is with the meat industry has really got me feeling more woke than almost anything else I've learned recently. They have a huge interest in keeping as many poorly taken care of animals as possible who need regular medications because they live in a petri dish of filth. I thought it was mostly big ag who would lobby against better conditions for animals - but as always, the rabbit hole goes deeper.

[Cainite]

Can one maintain the same level of physical energy and keep his muscles on a vegan diet as he would with eating meat?

[Nía]

Can one maintain the same level of physical energy and keep his muscles on a vegan diet as he would with eating meat?

Yes, absolutely. World class vegan bodybuilders and strongmen like Alex Dargatz and Patrik Baboumian are living proof of the fact. There's definitely a couple more examples and tips in this regard here in the forum (and on those websites I just linked to); maybe even in this thread? - Just because I recently stumbled upon this: Two Vegetables That Build Muscle

-`ღ´-

[Cainite]

That's incredible.
Thanks, Nia.

[xise]

So I was talking to a Jain family friend the other week. I've talked about Jains being proof that vegetarian communities can exist for thousands of years without health issues.

What I didn't know, that my Jain friend informed me, that strict Jains are actually vegan, and have been, for thousands of years. Strict Jains are actually apparently more restrictive than vegans, as they also refuse to eat roots. It's kind of funny how many people spin their wheels talking about how human beings - in general - require meat to survive when actual experience by the Jain community has proven otherwise, even for veganism with the supposed B12 issues.

So I think if people were honest with themselves (self-honest is hard), they would see meat eating is a choice. But going meat-free can be difficult psychologically, so I have compassion and understanding for those who choose to continue to eat meat even if they don't require it to survive. So many social activities revolve around eating meat, and so few venues have good meat-free options, especially in some areas of the US or world. But times are changing, and it is definitely easier to go meat-free, which is awesome. I wonder how many parents have taught or will teach their children that eating meat  - or any animal product - is a choice, and that one can live a healthy life without them.

[Jade]

I actually know quite a few vegan kids. They're usually pretty happy about it. I think if you can start them young, the shift is easy. It's once the teen years hit that our habits and our social norms become more thoroughly ingrained.

[sjel]

I actually know quite a few vegan kids. They're usually pretty happy about it. I think if you can start them young, the shift is easy. It's once the teen years hit that our habits and our social norms become more thoroughly ingrained.

I am vegan! Congratulate me!! ... I don't do it for congratulation, I genuinely feel lighter because of it. I am not retracting any statement of mine, because I feel that I am only speaking to myself. You are me, yes?

Vegan feels good, I am experiencing the feelings and deep down catalyst that would not be exposed if I continued to eat meat. I think the meat was hiding the very deep down catalysts locked up inside me.

[Diana]

Vegan feels good, I am experiencing the feelings and deep down catalyst that would not be exposed if I continued to eat meat. I think the meat was hiding the very deep down catalysts locked up inside me.

I do congratulate you, and I agree with what you say here.  

[Jade]

I think the meat was hiding the very deep down catalysts locked up inside me.

I think this is accurate. I think that the fact that many people eat meat without any thought just shows how well society can brain wash people. I believe that, if given a choice at a young age to choose a diet, that most little children would choose to not eat slaughtered baby animals. There are countless youtube videos of distressed children who cannot understand why their parent is butchering something that could have been their friend.

The fact that we are removed from the slaughter of animals makes it easy to ignore the atrocities that are committed to millions of animals every single day. I actually found a vegan activist group in Denver that bears witness at a slaughterhouse - where they bring in 1400 lambs a day to be slaughtered. We gather as a group and sing songs and offer comfort to the lambs, as we can watch them be unloaded and head right up the conveyor belt into the slaughter room. It's really hard but since we're bragging here in the vegan thread, I actually feel like this is a huge calling for me and it's some of the most fulfilling service I've ever done, and meeting so many other vegans who also feel that this is a worthy service has been significantly life changing for me.

So, good job, sjel. Thanks for trying. I know it's so, so hard, I truly do. But I see so many people change too when they quit eating meat - many people do it primarily for their health (me) and then as they are able to break free of the meat matrix, they realize what a horrible system we were participating in unconsciously. This is why vegans are usually so emotional - all those emotions that were denied so long for pleasure come bursting out, when one is willing to acknowledge what a systemically destructive habit eating meat with any regularity is.

[Jeremy]

Can one maintain the same level of physical energy and keep his muscles on a vegan diet as he would with eating meat?

Yes, absolutely. World class vegan bodybuilders and strongmen like Alex Dargatz and Patrik Baboumian are living proof of the fact. There's definitely a couple more examples and tips in this regard here in the forum (and on those websites I just linked to); maybe even in this thread? - Just because I recently stumbled upon this: Two Vegetables That Build Muscle

-`ღ´-

What is an approximate cost per week or month to do such a lifestyle?

Also other than beans which i cannot tolerate on a consistent basis, I fail to see a vegetable that would allow me to maintain my daily protein intake. Would I be restricted to chick peas and nuts for protein?

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=a...oveganseat

[Diana]

The fact that we are removed from the slaughter of animals makes it easy to ignore the atrocities that are committed to millions of animals every single day. I actually found a vegan activist group in Denver that bears witness at a slaughterhouse - where they bring in 1400 lambs a day to be slaughtered. We gather as a group and sing songs and offer comfort to the lambs, as we can watch them be unloaded and head right up the conveyor belt into the slaughter room.

This is absolutely beautiful. Thank you Jade for this amazing service.

I'm editing this post because I don't want anyone to imagine I think lambs going to slaughter is beautiful. What is beautiful is that Jade and the others involved have the compassion and courage to do this selfless act of love. 

[Jade]

The fact that we are removed from the slaughter of animals makes it easy to ignore the atrocities that are committed to millions of animals every single day. I actually found a vegan activist group in Denver that bears witness at a slaughterhouse - where they bring in 1400 lambs a day to be slaughtered. We gather as a group and sing songs and offer comfort to the lambs, as we can watch them be unloaded and head right up the conveyor belt into the slaughter room.

This is absolutely beautiful. Thank you Jade for this amazing service.

Thank you, Diana. Incidentally I just had become friends with more and more vegan activists in the front range area. A month or so ago, one of them was taking pictures at the slaughterhouse, talking to the babies, and I thought "I want to be with her while she does this." Luckily, and somewhat surprisingly, many other people also had the same thought. This is happening more and more, and is actually more popular in Canada and the UK than the US at the moment. http://thesavemovement.org/

Also other than beans which i cannot tolerate on a consistent basis, I fail to see a vegetable that would allow me to maintain my daily protein intake. Would I be restricted to chick peas and nuts for protein?

Firstly, it's valuable to learn to move past the protein myth. It's almost impossible to be protein deficient - if you are able to eat enough calories in a day being vegan, than you are getting enough protein. Elephants' diets are entirely leaves and grass. In the winter, moose live on twigs.

But, to have the protein intake of the body builders is likely prohibitively expensive, as any world class athlete must consume much, much more fuel than the average person. But seriously, absolutely everything has protein.

If you find beans are hard to eat, have you tried soaking them for 24-48 hours before you cook them, to sprout them? This changes their chemical composition and many people find them much more digestible.

I do not eat beans every single day. I do not eat nuts every single day. I have been a vegan for over 5 years and have never in my life been healthier - I am actually thriving. Before, I was very sickly. My rule is to try to eat as many colors as possible in a week. I also drink a green juice every morning which I believe has been giving me more micronutrients, which has also upped my energy levels. I also eat mostly organic, which is pricier, but I also buy very few processed foods, which are more expensive, so my grocery bill evens out. I probably spend $150 a week or so for two of us to eat, give or take. And I don't make any attempt to only buy on sale and stuff - if I was more intentionally frugal about it, that would likely drop quite a bit.

[Jeremy]

I recently started exercising again so yea I do cardio, work out like a bodybuilder does plus i work a high intensity/paced job in a hospital where I have to lift patients, slide them from stretchers to tables, push stretchers, etc.

I read on that site that they recommend the same amount of protein as meat eating people so we are talking 1g of protein per lbs of body weight and that's the absolute minimum. I've normally eating 1.5 to 2g of protein per lbs
of body weight.

As for the beans, I soaked then over night but not until they sprouted. I hit a very rough patch financially years ago and I bought huge bags of rice and beans. The amount of bloating I had was excruciating.

It may not be something I could financially handle at this point but thanks for the suggestions

[Plenum]

you can also try some pea protein powder.  Although it's not something I can vouch for myself.  (I tend to go for whole foods).

but it appears to be quite a viable alternative to whey protein.

[Diana]

I recently started exercising again so yea I do cardio, work out like a bodybuilder does plus i work a high intensity/paced job in a hospital where I have to lift patients, slide them from stretchers to tables, push stretchers, etc.

I read on that site that they recommend the same amount of protein as meat eating people so we are talking 1g of protein per lbs of body weight and that's the absolute minimum. I've normally eating 1.5 to 2g of protein per lbs
of body weight.

As for the beans, I soaked then over night but not until they sprouted. I hit a very rough patch financially years ago and I bought huge bags of rice and beans. The amount of bloating I had was excruciating.

It may not be something I could financially handle at this point but thanks for the suggestions

I have told this story a number of times here, but I will relate it again. In the mid 90's I became friends with an ex-WWF wrestler who was a huge body builder. He hadn't wrestled professionally for a time, but he was still bodybuilding. I went to the gym with him sometimes and when he squat-pressed some amazing amount of weight, the whole gym would get quiet. He had been a raw-food vegetarian for ten years at that point. I remember him consuming enormous amounts of raw vegetables, and he ate fruit and nuts. He would even sometimes chew up some uncooked dry rice. I say vegetarian because he wasn't strictly vegan, though he was health conscious and did not live off dairy products. He later went back to eating some cooked food but stayed vegetarian.

He wasn't the lean type either; he was bulky with big muscles. I think a lot depends on body type and how the body is articulated. 

Intentions matter: to look a certain way; optimize the body (like Bruce Lee did); optimize health; eat compassionately; or a combination of things and how they are prioritized. You can do anything you decide to do. For example, if certain things cost more buy less of others things. Also one can grow food, which is ideal.

[Jade]

For the record, I have a physical job (waitress) where I am moving all shift long. I don't lift weights but I lift buckets full of ice and racks full of glasses! I don't use caffeine ever anymore. I never feel low energy unless it's at the end of a long day of work, or a long day of driving.

If sprouted beans do work for you, Jeremy, they are literally the cheapest protein source there is. In fact, it might just be worth seeing about supplementing your diet with them if finances are an issue and protein is a priority.

[Jeremy]

Yes I'll look in to it. My diet is very strict when I get in the groove of working out so we only spend about $75/week if that. It consists of 2 eggs, 2 heaping handfuls of spinach, mushrooms , 4oz of chicken in a tortilla, then 5oz chicken breast with 1/4 cup of sweet potatoes 4 times throughout the day.

I'm not really attached to eating meat per se. I was able to detach myself from food quite a few years ago and see it only as energy rather than something to be enjoyed. I just wanna make sure I can get my daily protein requirement.

Oh Diana as for the wrestler comment. Considering his history as a wrestler, I highly doubt the man was natural given that the overwhelming majority of them were on massive amounts of steroids. I don't have a problem with that as I've done them a few times in the past but that does throw in much more of an advantage when it comes to working out, strength, and muscle mass.

Oh I forgot about the garden thing. We actually have quite the starter garden going. At this point in the hot season of Florida, we only have a bunch of tomatoes and peppers oh and sweet potatoes but our fall and winter garden will consist of
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Spaghetti squash
Carrots
Kale
Spinach
Tomatoes

One of the only positives about living in Florida is the ability to garden year round lol

[Jade]

Yes, my least favorite thing about Colorado (and the one thing that makes me miss Iowa) is the absurdly stunted growing season. I have some beautiful tomatoes and squash plants chugging along in the hot, hot sun, though.

[native]

I've yet to try it, but Mexicans cook their beans with the herb epazote to eliminate/reduce gas. I've read that a thorough rinsing of the cooking liquid (or canned preserve liquid) does the trick as well. I use the liquid for certain dishes, and more than anything I think a thoroughly cooked bean does the trick.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I recently started exercising again so yea I do cardio, work out like a bodybuilder does plus i work a high intensity/paced job in a hospital where I have to lift patients, slide them from stretchers to tables, push stretchers, etc.

I read on that site that they recommend the same amount of protein as meat eating people so we are talking 1g of protein per lbs of body weight and that's the absolute minimum. I've normally eating 1.5 to 2g of protein per lbs
of body weight.

I'm not vegan nor vegetarian, but I do know that there are a lot of vegan/vegetarian protein powder options (there's soy, hemp, rice, chickpea, and more). People who lift weights and eat meat still typically have to supplement their own diets with protein powder to meet (traditional) recommended daily minimums.

However, I have to say that your numbers are extremely high compared to what I've seen even for athletes. This article by Men's Fitness cites a professor of exercise nutrition at University of Western Ontario saying that professional strength athletes - whose job it is to get muscle and lift weights - require between .7 and .8 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Honestly, I can't imagine getting 2g of protein per pound. That's A LOT of protein. I would imagine that being normal on a keto diet, but if you're also getting carbs, I wouldn't shoot that high.

Other high-protein vegan foods besides beans and nuts: Peas, edamame, oats, tofu, quinoa, and my favorite, lentils (though I don't know if most people consider lentils and beans as the same).

[Jeremy]

I recently started exercising again so yea I do cardio, work out like a bodybuilder does plus i work a high intensity/paced job in a hospital where I have to lift patients, slide them from stretchers to tables, push stretchers, etc.

I read on that site that they recommend the same amount of protein as meat eating people so we are talking 1g of protein per lbs of body weight and that's the absolute minimum. I've normally eating 1.5 to 2g of protein per lbs
of body weight.

I'm not vegan nor vegetarian, but I do know that there are a lot of vegan/vegetarian protein powder options (there's soy, hemp, rice, chickpea, and more). People who lift weights and eat meat still typically have to supplement their own diets with protein powder to meet (traditional) recommended daily minimums.

However, I have to say that your numbers are extremely high compared to what I've seen even for athletes. This article by Men's Fitness cites a professor of exercise nutrition at University of Western Ontario saying that professional strength athletes - whose job it is to get muscle and lift weights - require between .7 and .8 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Honestly, I can't imagine getting 2g of protein per pound. That's A LOT of protein. I would imagine that being normal on a keto diet, but if you're also getting carbs, I wouldn't shoot that high.

Other high-protein vegan foods besides beans and nuts: Peas, edamame, oats, tofu, quinoa, and my favorite, lentils (though I don't know if most people consider lentils and beans as the same).

Thanks for the suggestions of alternate protein sources but I will disagree with the protein amounts. I sbould have prefaced my diet regime with the fact that I'm cutting down on the belly that I've accumulated in the 3 years of not exercising. This is the reason for the higher protein and lower carb intake. The fat I do take in is from coconut oil that we use to not only cook the chicken but the few tablespoons we add to our daily golden milk drink. 

As far as the protein amounts, yea I screwed that up also. I the 2g per pound thing is during bulking and yea I ate close to 350g of protein while bulking. As of right now, I'm a tad under 1g per pound because I haven't bought any protein powder for post workout. So I'm getting 180g of protein purely from chicken.

 It's long accepted among the bodybuilding community that high protein, moderate fats, and low to moderate carbs are the way to contest prep. Though I know I'm not prepping for any type of contest, it has been established through decades of anecdotal evidence that this is the most optimal way to lean the body out. It always amuses me when scientists say higher protein causes kidney failure, or whatever other negative effect because if that were true, tens of thousands of recreational bodybuilders would be dropping like flies lol. 

[Jade]

Did you know...

Nearly 70% of dairy cows that are sent to slaughter are pregnant? Female dairy cows are born into an awful life where they are taken from their mothers within 48 hours and then held in a tiny cage until they are sexually mature, upon which point they are artificially impregnated by either a man or a machine, so that they will produce milk. Then, they are chained up and machines are hooked to their nipples, and they are drained of every bit of milk they produce. When they give birth, the baby stays with the mother for 24-48 hours - this gives the baby the best chance of survival, but the mother the least amount of time to bond with it, because it stresses her out to remove the baby. Stress = reduced milk production. As soon as she ovulates again, she is impregnated again, forcing her body to produce both enough milk to grow her stolen calf and to also grow another calf inside of her.

At some point, around 4 years of age, these beautiful ladies give out. Their legs are exhausted from incessant birthing, standing, and milking, and they collapse. At this point, they are sent to slaughter. Hence, most of them are pregnant.

I won't tell you the fate of the fetuses. You can find that out yourself. I had to find out today, when I heard the "70% are pregnant at slaughter" statistic. Beyond cruel. Dairy cows are some of the most miserable beasts on our planet.

[Nía]

These athletes are breaking the Vegan stereotype (Video)

[Jeremy]

Here a link to the impact of Tyson farm and other though not named. I'm sure Monsanto's chemicals are also involved

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/re...-industry/

[Jeremy]

These athletes are breaking the Vegan stereotype (Video)

I can get into that but they still require much larger protein intake than most think. 

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/protein.php

• Endurance athletes - "Nitrogen balance studies suggest that dietary protein intake necessary to support nitrogen balance in endurance athletes ranges from 1.2 to 1.4 g/kg/day."
  
  
• Strength athletes - "Recommended protein intakes for strength-trained athletes range from approximately 1.2 to 1.7 g/kg/day." and "The amount of protein needed to maintain muscle mass may be lower for individuals who routinely resistance train because of more efficient protein use."
  
  
• Vegetarians - "Because plant proteins are less well digested than animal proteins, an increase in intake of approximately 10% protein is advised. Therefore, protein recommendations for vegetarian athletes approximate 1.3–1.8 g/kg/day."
  

One cool thing they note is that it's per kilogram of weight rather than pound which brings down my total intake needed. It also confirmed a long suspected belief that one should determine the daily caloric intake relative to ones goal eight rather than current weight. This negates the added unnecessary fat within the body which one is trying to rid themselves of anyways so in was always confused why one would include it. With that said, I'd still require around 154g of protein. 

On a positive note, I found that tempeh is packed with protein and does not effect men negatively which was a long held belief due to the massive amounts of estrogen contained with soy. But the cost seems a bit high for nongmo versions. Anyone have better suggestions for brands? 

Edit Actually I calculated it wrong. I only need 130 g of protein so im getting into the more manageable area

[MangusKhan]

I just found a video on youtube which is simply fascinating. This highly intelligent and incredibly disciplined man, who holds a deadlift record, eats only a single vegan meal per day. He goes very in depth with the theory behind his lifestyle, and personally I find him completely inspiring. If you have 30min to spare you might wish to give it a look.

[Jade]

These athletes are breaking the Vegan stereotype (Video)

I can get into that but they still require much larger protein intake than most think. 

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/protein.php

• Endurance athletes - "Nitrogen balance studies suggest that dietary protein intake necessary to support nitrogen balance in endurance athletes ranges from 1.2 to 1.4 g/kg/day."
  
  
• Strength athletes - "Recommended protein intakes for strength-trained athletes range from approximately 1.2 to 1.7 g/kg/day." and "The amount of protein needed to maintain muscle mass may be lower for individuals who routinely resistance train because of more efficient protein use."
  
  
• Vegetarians - "Because plant proteins are less well digested than animal proteins, an increase in intake of approximately 10% protein is advised. Therefore, protein recommendations for vegetarian athletes approximate 1.3–1.8 g/kg/day."
  

One cool thing they note is that it's per kilogram of weight rather than pound which brings down my total intake needed. It also confirmed a long suspected belief that one should determine the daily caloric intake relative to ones goal eight rather than current weight. This negates the added unnecessary fat within the body which one is trying to rid themselves of anyways so in was always confused why one would include it. With that said, I'd still require around 154g of protein. 

On a positive note, I found that tempeh is packed with protein and does not effect men negatively which was a long held belief due to the massive amounts of estrogen contained with soy. But the cost seems a bit high for nongmo versions. Anyone have better suggestions for brands? 

Edit Actually I calculated it wrong. I only need 130 g of protein so im getting into the more manageable area

Trader Joe's has good tempeh!

Also, I firmly believe that the soy/estrogen thing is a huge exaggeration/myth perpetuated by the meat industry. If people actually cared about the estrogen they were consuming, they would stop consuming dairy. Hardly anyone eats enough soy to compete with the average estrogen intake from milk. And, the estrogen in soy is naturally occurring, the estrogen we inject cows with is made in a laboratory. Not to mention the growth hormones that they are injected with, which I'm sure correlates to increased cancer in humans. Cows have insanely high cancer rates for beings that only live 8-48 months.

And, to add to the digestibility of plants - the reason most people have trouble digesting them is because we don't chew enough. Americans were raised on processed food that basically dissolves in saliva. Plant fiber takes mastication, usually at least 30 chews per bite is recommended to break down the plant matter well enough so that all of it can be digested. This is also a good way to practice mindfulness.

[Nía]

Talking about proteins: The Protein Myth That Has Taken Years to Debunk