The Number '12' in regards to densities, centers, and music

[Marc]

In music, sacred geometry, the months of year, zodiac signs, and more I see the number 12 as an important number, but I don't really ever see Ra use it.

Also what's the deal with some people saying there are 12 chakras?

In music I see that there are 7 diatonic notes in a scale with the chromatic number being 12, does that relate at all to the energy centers?

[Edit: more descriptive title]

[Cyan]

Don't know the answer for sure but Can say that Chakras/Energy centers / Soul Psych is definently musically attunable so that more you understand about the principles of sound / music and their connection with human emotions (why certain bandwiths make us feel "sad" and certain "happy" even though there is no exterior change in the enviroment except a note from one area to another)

Once you get that down you can picture yourself being kind of like a tuning fork that just attunes to that moment/astral location referred to by the hz rate that produced the emotions and with enough focus you drop in on that density level for a while.

Though ofcourse you'll have to come back to your natural density again and thats the stressful part.

Anyway. Much as I have studied this, i'm still just a neophyte but I know that pictures and images are more common in STS than sounds are, sounds and music are very common in "STO" as we picture it. Far as I can tell it has to do with sound being too unpredictable to be useful for control while pictures are somewhat more predictable and thus useful for control.

Its just a hunch but thats what my Sci brain tells me is the reason for the dispersal patterns of universal STS/STO mirroring Soc Mem complexes with their interests spreading towards sound or light or being.

Hope it helps in any way.

[Marc]

In the diatonic scale it goes as such: 1st, 2nd, major 3rd, perfect 4th, 5th, 6th, major 7, 1 (octave)
In the chromatic scale we have: 1, minor 2nd, 2nd, minor 3rd, major 3rd, perfect 4th, diminished 5th, diminished (?) 6th, 6th, dominant 7, and major 7, and 1 (octave)

What meaning could the extra notes have?

[Cyan]

Well since 8th is II then I would wager that after a while with II all entities make certain choices about how to proceed (9th) and so on. Since its inherantly an endless process. Still, no real idea.

[Marc]

In regards to octave densities I think it just starts all over but maybe totally different. Here's and interesting quote from the Gospel of Thomas

“18 The disciples said to Jesus, “Tell us how our end will be.” Jesus said, “Have you discovered the beginning, then, so that you are seeking the end? For where the beginning is the end will be. Blessings on one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death.”

[Spaced]

ach never mind

[Cyan]

Would make sense.

[Spaced]

my math was off though, it's be 13

[AnthroHeart]

So if there are really more than 7 densities in an Octave, we could be graduating to something other than 4D. Maybe up a couple of densities if there are really 12 of them in an Octave.

[Marc]

Or there are 2 parts to some of the densities. A minor and a major. Maybe I'm on to something...

[Ashim]

My understanding would be:

There are 12 principal densities:

Density 1 - physical
Density 2 - non-physical
Density 3 - physical
Density 4 - non-physical gateway
Density 5 - physical fine matter
Density 6 - non-physical
Density 7 - physical
Densities 8 - 12 non-physical

@marc

Archytas, the military general collaborator with Plato, faced the same Demonic Altar Plague problem as occurred in 3,000 B.C. Many scholars have written about the connections between ancient India and Greece, explicitly regarding Archytas. By combining the Pythagorean harmonic proportions with the geometry of India, Archytas was able to give a proof for the square root of two, that also enabled standarization or equal-temperment of the octave music scale. In otherwords this proof extended the Yin/Yang, OM, Pythagorean harmonics into greater dissonance by containing the infinite to a three dimensional object of geometry. The result enabled analytic geometry and inverse proportions, central to western science, to be achieved. Unfortunately the technology is inherently against the natural harmonics of reality. This is why equal-tempered tuning, although conceived in ancient China, was not allowed for the society as a whole. Also in ancient China it was remarked that those who know the 3:4:5 triangle, based on the Golden Section and the Major Third music interval, could rule the world. Any supposed "sacred geometry" that is based on the square root of two is really just a promotion of destructive techno-spirituality.

[Siren]

Or there are 2 parts to some of the densities. A minor and a major. Maybe I'm on to something...

Exactly. It's just that. Imagine a circle, if you will. You can divide this circle into many parts, can you not? And each part will be distinct, just as you can take a full color palette and blend "true" orange with "true" yellow and obtain a distinctively different color altogether. There are various shades of green and violet too, aren't there?

So too do the colors of the rainbow "blend" into one another at the "intersections" between one "true" color and another. After all, don't we also have brown and pink in the color spectrum too? But these are not "true" colors, as Ra would say. The "true" colors are seven, not twelve or three-hundred and fourteen.



So back to the circle; how many parts you divide it into does not matter, because you are not adding or subtracting from it, you are merely differentiating it. You can still divide the circle into those 314 parts if you wanted and the circle would still remain one full circle.

With densities/dimensions it is the same. It wouldn't surprise me if different entities across the Creation had different perceptions/distortions regarding the different grades/stages/densities of awareness and number them 7 or 12 or 21. I would imagine, though, that the higher one evolves the less need for the unnecessary complexities and confusions that lower-density entities fall trap to—and are so very fond of.



I have no problem reconciling the 12 with the 7, though I very much prefer the septenary system. The simpler the clearer. After all, the truth is elegant, and there is a certain elegance to the number 7, the rainbow-color spectrum, and the diatonic musical scale.

This doesn't mean, of course, that I do not recognize the color pink as well!

---

PS: Same applies to energy nexi. There are "sub-" or "secondary" and "tertiary" energy centers just as there are sub-densities and undertones and overtones to sound and color, but the principal nexi are seven in number, not twelve or twenty-four or fourty-eight and a half.

The septenary (7) emerges from the creative trinity (3) which is contained within the potential unity (1). From these arise a myriad of distortions beyond counting.

[Marc]

@siren

Thanks for helping me understand. As a musician the octave theory made sense but with other scales was where I was having trouble understanding. Looking at the octave as a circle with infinite ways to cut it up make it very understandable to me.

I have a question about how the septenary comes out of the trinity and also say with a pentatonic system how it would come from the 1.

[Marc]

When musing further upon this today my higher self said to me "scales/modes are the color palettes of sound."

[AnthroHeart]

My higher self doesn't seem to want to or can't talk to me.

[AlkalinElf]

Hmmm.. but this is only Western music. Some of the music of the East is in quarter tones and is surpassing those mathematics. To be honest, (not saying anything new here), but for me it's all just an illusion. By that I mean, one of those things that look so mysterious and make you wonder WHY they were created as they were, but if you spend enough time on it you will find as many information that defy what at first glance seems like a rule. Or maybe just get to the point that no matter how much information they give you, you are still experientaly as poor as before. I am a professional musician and my spiritual seeking was always spiced with music, trying to make sense of questions like this one of the OP. Until one day after many, many days spend in meditation, I realized that all I need is silence. Silence contains all the music and every added sound in it, is 'lower' vibration then your ultimate meditative state.

[Marc]

Hmmm.. but this is only Western music. Some of the music of the East is in quarter tones and is surpassing those mathematics. To be honest, (not saying anything new here), but for me it's all just an illusion. By that I mean, one of those things that look so mysterious and make you wonder WHY they were created as they were, but if you spend enough time on it you will find as many information that defy what at first glance seems like a rule. Or maybe just get to the point that no matter how much information they give you, you are still experientaly as poor as before. I am a professional musician and my spiritual seeking was always spiced with music, trying to make sense of questions like this one of the OP. Until one day after many, many days spend in meditation, I realized that all I need is silence. Silence contains all the music and every added sound in it, is 'lower' vibration then your ultimate meditative state.

The octave principle remains the same regardless of scales. As siren pointed out, it's all just how you divide the circle.

But yes I do get what you are saying

[Unbound]

Silence speaks.

[Unbound]

Silence speaks.

[zenmaster]

40 is a good one. Also 11. 3 is magical. You can make up any crap you want.

[Unbound]

Sure, as many pieces of pie as you want, although let us not conceive that a pie cut in to 12 will have the same size pieces as any other number of cuts.

[Cyan]

Yeah, the Pi is just uselles crap based on numbers that got uselesly made up because people who dont take an interest in Pi find it uselles.

[Unbound]

Pi is different for everyone, based on their interpretation, yeah?

[Cyan]

You have no idea what the Pi is don't you?

Pi cant be different based on interpretation, your interpretation of Pi can be different but not the number (or the relative positions of the numbers or sizes that generate the pi to one another).

The fact that its a non ending number just means it expands infinitely the closer you get but what you get closer to doesnt change.

Aka, if you go 10 steps into pi and 100 steps into pi, you get a different set of numbers, but how to get to pi is same in all systems that have mathmathics on any level.

[Unbound]

Hehe I believe I expressed a heavy dose of sarcasm.

[Cyan]

I believe I did not notice the sarcasm

[jivatman]

The important property of 12 is that it has many divisors.

It's divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6.

That's why there are 12 Zodiac Signs. Each divisor is one of the Major Aspects: Conjunction, Opposition, Trine, Square, and Sextile.

7, in contrast, is a prime number (has no divisors other than 1 and itself),

So it is "Indivisible", a complete thing, and emphasizes the difference between each part, rather than their similarities.

The 12 signs are put into groups by element, cardinality, and other less used groupings. These demonstrate the relationship between a sign, or planets in signs, to another. Things in groups of 7 are understood more as discrete steps or parts of a unified whole. 7 days in creation, Chakras, ect.

[reeay]

That's specifically Western Astrology. Other traditions have more than 12 signs... so perhaps 12 has a culturally specific significance. None of the cultures I grew up in see 12 as significant... maybe now they do due to western influences.

[Meerie]

40 is a good one. Also 11. 3 is magical. You can make up any crap you want.

zenny, you are too cute in your grumpiness

if I had a handwaving smiley I would insert it now, lol

[reeay]

lol pi-day