mistakes are opportunities for learning

[Plenum]

one thing I've come to appreciate is that's one's environment when growing up sets a lot of baseline attitudes. Unless one is a strong individual and personality, much of what our parents and teachers offer us become absorbed as default attitudes.

one of these that I've had and not been truly aware of is this:

*that mistakes = opportunity for punishment

in a more 'enlightened' family, I believe the attitude would be that mistakes are an opportunity for learning.

this above attitude that I've carried for most of my life has had many consequent distortions. If mistakes are seen as an opportunity for punishment, then one becomes more timid (for fear of making mistakes), more self-critical and self-conscious (to be alert for the possibility for making mistakes), and more aware when others makes mistakes (to hold them 'accountable").

this simple thought-form is not too far removed from the notion of 'sin', or inherent cupability.

so today, I begin with the fresh idea that:

*mistakes are an opportunity for learning

[zenmaster]

But what is a mistake and what is the purpose of punishment?

[Plenum]

I prob didn't explain in my post how that association was created.

Basically, the mistakes were what my father felt fell short of some arbitrary measurement; whether it be controlling my behaviour, not doing well enough in school, or moving furniture around as a kid (which I found most amusing to do )

the punishments were the usual sort; the ones still in vogue in the 80's, ie corporal punishment, ie physical beatings.

I have long long since forgiven my parents for the way they raised me; they didn't know any better, and in their heart of hearts probably thought they were doing me a favor - "spare the rod, spoil the child" was still the mantra of the day.

however, the trauma that is inflicted on a sensitive mind (any child's mind) leaves some serious impacts, and so much of dysfunctional adult behaviour can be traced to these negative emotional thoughtforms that were generated in the first 13-14 years of life; when one had very little intellectual capacity or training to deal with such things.

this was by no means unique to me; I have a very good friend who grew up in the 70's and was also from first generation immigrant parents (Italian in this case). The beatings were not spared there either.

but the healing begins somewhere; and in this case, with moi.

[Ashim]

They used to 'cane' us at school.
Another sadist used to pummel our arses with a size 15 shoe.
Funny that I always had an issue with violence.

[AnthroHeart]

I guess I can see it more now than when I made a bad mistake about 2 months ago. They say time heals all wounds. When you're pushed beyond what you thought you were capable of, it can be a scary experience. I still don't know what the future holds, but I try to stay positive. It's really all I have to hold onto.

[zenmaster]

So essentially you are saying that adopting an attitude of "mistakes are an opportunity for learning" means we can do no wrong?

[AnthroHeart]

I think at least in 3D we have right and wrong. Potentially in higher densities there is no wrong because there is no veil.

[zenmaster]

So if there is wrong, and we don't see wrongness as a mistake but merely a learning opportunity, then punishment is unnecessary?

[AnthroHeart]

I see it as sometimes we punish ourselves emotionally.

[Plenum]

So essentially you are saying that adopting an attitude of "mistakes are an opportunity for learning" means we can do no wrong?

yes, the relationship to one's perceived mistakes or errors becomes a more healthy one than the one I previously outlined (being paralysed by one's past mistakes).

the benchmark for a current 'mistake' for me would be:

* not perceiving the love in a situation
* not perceiving the other self as creator in any given situation
* a feeling of running away from a situation (ie not accepting the opportunity of catalyst in a given situation)

things are actually quite well and smooth in the present; this was more undoing some knots of the past that still cast their shadows occasionally. You know those occasional moments when you are knocked off your sense of clarity of consciousness, or peace of mind? and you want to figure out why? and there is nothing to the present that you can trace it to? but it seems like an echo of the past? yeah, that's the shift in perspective.

[zenmaster]

Yet in the real world, well beyond your convenient reduction, mistakes exist which have dire consequences and are not amenable to learning for some reason. What would the "more enlightened attitude be" for actually handling these?

[Plenum]

Yet in the real world, well beyond your convenient reduction, mistakes exist which have dire consequences and are not amenable to learning for some reason. What would the "more enlightened attitude be" for actually handling these?

you might have to expand a bit more on a specific situation that you had in mind?

are you possibly referring to whole societies being taken off course by neither polarising positive or negative, and losing the opportunities for further development? ie the rapid ageing effect that we experience on earth?

[zenmaster]

Yet in the real world, well beyond your convenient reduction, mistakes exist which have dire consequences and are not amenable to learning for some reason. What would the "more enlightened attitude be" for actually handling these?

you might have to expand a bit more on a specific situation that you had in mind?

are you possibly referring to whole societies being taken off course by neither polarising positive or negative, and losing the opportunities for further development? ie the rapid ageing effect that we experience on earth?

More generally, I am saying that even if you recognize that viewing conditions as learning opportunities is more healthy or more enlightened, that the attitude is not always forthcoming or completely capable of addressing "wrong doing" such that wrong doing effects are somehow no longer in our faces. Learning, being a developmental process, can not actually replace or even subsume wrong doing. Therefore we are left to deal with wrong doing just the same (with punishment of course).

[reeay]

Corporal punishment is usually to extinguish problematic behaviors and deter people from engaging in that type of behavior. It is rarely effective tho in that sense. When an appropriate consequence is given with an explanation of how the conduct lead to this consequence, the likelihood for learning rules and proper ways to behave is higher. Learning meaning the child learns to follow rules and behave in proper or expected behavior post-punishment. So punishment done in a systematic and rational way is effective.

That is only for behavior changes. Kids often get smart each time they get caught and get a consequence (or other type of punishment). My friend used to make her step-child (about 5th grade) write 'reflection papers' to reflect on his behavior, how behavior effected other people, and why it is considered 'wrong'. lol. It worked for this kid.

[GentleReckoning]

Yet in the real world, well beyond your convenient reduction, mistakes exist which have dire consequences and are not amenable to learning for some reason. What would the "more enlightened attitude be" for actually handling these?

you might have to expand a bit more on a specific situation that you had in mind?

are you possibly referring to whole societies being taken off course by neither polarising positive or negative, and losing the opportunities for further development? ie the rapid ageing effect that we experience on earth?

More generally, I am saying that even if you recognize that viewing conditions as learning opportunities is more healthy or more enlightened, that the attitude is not always forthcoming or completely capable of addressing "wrong doing" such that wrong doing effects are somehow no longer in our faces. Learning, being a developmental process, can not actually replace or even subsume wrong doing. Therefore we are left to deal with wrong doing just the same (with punishment of course).

Good and bad are simply labels. All exists to be learned from.

[zenmaster]

Good and bad are simply labels. All exists to be learned from.

Yes, what suggested otherwise?

[GentleReckoning]

It had seemed that you were postulating situations where mistakes would not be ideal lessons, and applying labels to those situations. My apologies if I misunderstood.

[zenmaster]

Read what I typed again and still don't see how you came up with that notion. The point was that even when we recognize learning is in our interest, we don't automatically apply it responsibly in all situations. Thus where does so-called elightenment really address? We still don't learn and we still punish.

[GentleReckoning]

Thank you for rephrasing. To address your last point, the recurrence of mistakes of similar nature would seem to be the best way to teach difficult or obscure lessons. The more the lesson is resisted, the greater the potential for growth when the lesson is realized.

[Ruth]

As a parent I would say, that "punishment" is sometimes a parent's responsibility to help a child learn. Hopefully enlightened punishment - like removing privileges etc. and a full explanation of the parent's reasoning processes.

[Spaced]

The way I see it, veiled 3rd density runs on "mistakes." With the veil and free will in effect it becomes possible, and in fact quite easy, to make mistakes. The fact that there can be mistakes makes it possible for us to see what we would consider to be correct, or not a mistake. It is the fact that we are able to make mistakes that makes it possible to learn, and in fact the whole reason why we are incarnated here since it's a lot harder to learn in time/space where everything is already grasped unconsciously.

I see this process reflected in the archetype of The Magician, experimentation with the materials and ideas available, learning through failures the path to success. In any case it all generates catalyst, which an entity can use to polarize as they wish.

This is just some stuff that I thought up right now though, so if it is a mistake, hey maybe we can still learn from it!

[AnthroHeart]

Spaced, in what you say about polarizing using catalyst, is it as simple as keeping the heart open, and seeing others as Creator that can help one to polarize? When you are experiencing catalyst, not being emotionally upset can help one to polarize positively?

[Spaced]

Spaced, in what you say about polarizing using catalyst, is it as simple as keeping the heart open, and seeing others as Creator that can help one to polarize? When you are experiencing catalyst, not being emotionally upset can help one to polarize positively?

To me it's all in how you react to the catalyst. It's fine get emotionally upset when dealing with catalyst, what's important is that you don't push those feelings away and also that you don't let them hijack your willpower. Instead, embrace them and accept them as a part of your thought process which deserves equal say. By doing this, amplifying these feelings in your being, you are taking away their power over you by owning them as a part of yourself. In my experience this makes it far easier to choose not to act on these potentially unhelpful emotions and eventually the emotions just stop popping up in the situations where they used to. I find the path to positive polarity comes from accepting every part of yourself, even the ones you aren't particularly proud of, which makes it easier to accept those things in others as well.

This of course is all my opinion and subject to the distortions of my thought process

[AnthroHeart]

Thank you Spaced. I hear what you say about accepting even the ones I''m not particularly proud of. It seems being accepting can add enough positive polarity to outweigh the negative polarity brought on by a negative act.

[Aureus]

"there are no mistakes"

Nature runs on change. Only when a changing is seen by a subject as counterproductive to its own idea of beneficial change, can there be such a thing as a mistake.

Always the highest authority will rule, be it in the form of a specific way for a social system to function, or a volcano having an erruption. Punishment is only wrong if it is considered so, but never objecively wrong.

The same thing goes for rightness.. It is another question whether there is a link between outcomes stemming from a choice made by a positive authority and subjects deeming it right and vice versa. However, due to strong veiling, polarity can be tough to measure and prove.