Losing faith

[Billy]

Hi all, just thought I'd get some things off of my chest. No better place to do so than this forum, I feel. As of late, I have lost almost all of my faith in those things which used to bring me comfort and give me some sort of meaning/purpose in this crazy thing called life. What is a life without faith and hope like? A lot of people seem to get by just fine without them. I'm not sure if I can however. Looking back now, even when my faith was at a "high", I was still quite unable to find any real or lasting solace/peace. I feel like some type of direct experience or proof is needed at this stage of my seeking. And what is wrong with that? I keep on repeating to myself that "there has to be more to life than this", but I am left wanting. I imagine this is something all types of seekers go through at some stage. Maybe this is a necessary step. Maybe that is just wishful thinking. Thank you everyone.

[xise]

How is/was your sense of hope and faith in yourself?

[anagogy]

What things used to bring you comfort and why did they bring you comfort?

[Parsons]

I went through this stage. After being at this stage for months, I examined it carefully and found it to be very uncomfortable. I was always anticipating and wanting something which was not fulfilled; there was no guarantee anything would manifest.

I found it to be useful catalyst as it lead me to my current state/attitude of "of all the different densities and experiences and worlds and times in the Creation, I chose this one" and "if I wanted an experience of some kind of 'direct experience or proof', I would have manifested into a world which that would have happened".

Also, to borrow something from Bashar, we have it backwards: seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing.

[Billy]

How is/was your sense of hope and faith in yourself?

I don't understand what this means.

---

What things used to bring you comfort and why did they bring you comfort?

The concept that all is well and that there is a creator which loves everyone unconditionally. We are all connected and the creation is a magnificent place that cares.

---

I found it to be useful catalyst as it lead me to my current state/attitude of "of all the different densities and experiences and worlds and times in the Creation, I chose this one" and "if I wanted an experience of some kind of 'direct experience or proof', I would have manifested into a world which that would have happened".

I suppose even this line of thinking requires faith. What's wrong with direct experience if it renews faith and hope. I imagine L/L Research wouldn't have gotten as far as they have without Don's desire for proof and data.

---

I kind of just want to drop everything and lead a hedonistic lifestyle. I imagine that would just serve as a distraction and eventually bring me back to this feeling. Heh.

[xise]

Rewording my question: How much faith if you have in yourself?

I'm writing from an iPhones so it's a b**** to type out msgs but I use "faith in yourself" similarly to the top ten google results for that phrase. Basically believing in yourself through faith instead of proof based reason.

But I would say that for myself, all my types of faith, both faith in myself and in the universe, are very much grounded in my subjective experiences as opposed to objective experiences. But experience nonetheless.

----

Then go drop everything and live a hedonistic lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with play out your desires and hell hedonism doesn't even necessarily imply hurting others. You only hurt yourself if you self-deny a strong and lasting desire (which your hedonism comment may or may not be). Go explore man, that's why we incarnate.

[Billy]

Rewording my question: How much faith if you have in yourself?

I'm writing from an iPhones so it's a b**** to type out msgs but I use "faith in yourself" similarly to the top ten google results for that phrase. Basically believing in yourself through faith instead of proof based reason.

But I would say that for myself, all my types of faith, both faith in myself and in the universe, are very much grounded in my subjective experiences as opposed to objective experiences. But experience nonetheless.

----

Then go drop everything and live a hedonistic lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with play out your desires and hell hedonism doesn't even necessarily imply hurting others. You only hurt yourself if you self-deny a strong and lasting desire (which your hedonism comment may or may not be). Go explore man, that's why we incarnate.

Thanks xise, I've always liked your posts. I still don't really understand what it means to believe in yourself in a general sense. As for the hedonistic lifestyle, haha, thanks for the laugh. Maybe I will . Any tips for leading such a lifestyle. I know there are some hedonists/former hedonists on this board. Don't be shy. Im reminded of hedonism bot from futurama. Does anyone have any chocolate pudding?

[Adonai One]

A year or two ago I believed there was no meaning; Faith was absurd. I stagnated emotionally. I soon realized that if nothing was meaningful then everything was. Gradually I realized the self was simply a series of desires and beliefs and that most of these were deliberately hidden from myself, desires I considered childish, impractical. I then said every desire I had was of infinite worth. I am now happy, I now praise my existence, I now praise everything.

I am not in a utopia, I experience suffering. The difference is that I am grateful for every suffering and every pleasure, for every bit of existence is meaningful to me. I embrace it all, even what I cannot embrace.

If I were to give my philosophy a name, this would be it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivialism

Hedonism is woefully incomplete: It does not see pleasure in everything.

[Billy]

A year or two ago I believed there was no meaning; Faith was absurd. I stagnated emotionally. I soon realized that if nothing was meaningful then everything was. Gradually I realized the self was simply a series of desires and beliefs and that most of these were deliberately hidden from myself, desires I considered childish, impractical. I then said every desire I had was of infinite worth. I am now happy, I now praise my existence, I now praise everything.

I am not in a utopia, I experience suffering. The difference is that I am grateful for every suffering and every pleasure, for every bit of existence is meaningful to me. I embrace it all, even what I cannot embrace.

If I were to give my philosophy a name, this would be it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivialism

Hedonism is woefully incomplete: It does not see pleasure in everything.

How did you get by when you felt like there was no meaning to anything? How did you turn it around, so to speak?

[Ankh]

I went through this stage too, couple of times, and in waves, and I am still not sure that I am out of it. It's like: Moment contains love? Yeah right! Look around and tell me how the heck does this moment contain love?

I found that this work in consciousness is very difficult, but at the same time also easy when it comes down to two opposites:

1. Thoughts of One Creation/Creator and that moments contains love, bring me into a harmonious place, where that ice around my heart melts down and I become softer, warmer and start caring about people. This makes me to feel good.

2. When I am faithless, I become cold and an ass-hole. That doesn't make me to feel good.

At the end of this incarnation, there will be a final proof for us all and we will find out that either:

1. There *is* One Creator/Creation, and if I was faithful about it then I was right, which is awesome! The most important thing is that it made me to feel good through this incarnation.

2. I was a complete fool and the above statement is wrong. There is no Creator and there is no love in the moment. "Lights are out when we die". Hm, so what? It still made me to feel good to have this faith. And all those sceptics who might be telling me that I was wrong when "lights are out", wouldn't be there anyway, right?

With this being said, I completely understand what you mean! What's wrong with just one little teeny tiny proof just *once* dammit!

[Adonai One]

A year or two ago I believed there was no meaning; Faith was absurd. I stagnated emotionally. I soon realized that if nothing was meaningful then everything was. Gradually I realized the self was simply a series of desires and beliefs and that most of these were deliberately hidden from myself, desires I considered childish, impractical. I then said every desire I had was of infinite worth. I am now happy, I now praise my existence, I now praise everything.

I am not in a utopia, I experience suffering. The difference is that I am grateful for every suffering and every pleasure, for every bit of existence is meaningful to me. I embrace it all, even what I cannot embrace.

If I were to give my philosophy a name, this would be it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivialism

Hedonism is woefully incomplete: It does not see pleasure in everything.

How did you get by when you felt like there was no meaning to anything? How did you turn it around, so to speak?

I reached the point of constant suicidal thinking and I knew death was inevitable and it would come, so I didn't act. I simply waited through life seeing where it would take me. I knew death would return me to another form of awareness that I would have to cope with, in meaninglessness or otherwise, so I reasoned that I might as well sit by and see what happens.

It naturally turned itself around from such. I just embraced my suffering and accepted it completely. Before I knew it, I started getting apparitions of golden sparks, showing me that this world was full of wonder.

Good things come to those who wait. Given enough time, you'll find yourself enjoying existence especially in a realm of existence such as this. There is no such thing as true hopelessness in this universe or any universe for that matter. Even the dead shall rise.

[Billy]

I went through this stage too, couple of times, and in waves, and I am still not sure that I am out of it. It's like: Moment contains love? Yeah right! Look around and tell me how the heck does this moment contain love?

I found that this work in consciousness is very difficult, but at the same time also easy when it comes down to two opposites:

1. Thoughts of One Creation/Creator and that moments contains love, bring me into a harmonious place, where that ice around my heart melts down and I become softer, warmer and start caring about people. This makes me to feel good.

2. When I am faithless, I become cold and an ass-hole. That doesn't make me to feel good.

At the end of this incarnation, there will be a final proof for us all and we will find out that either:

1. There *is* One Creator/Creation, and if I was faithful about it then I was right, which is awesome! The most important thing is that it made me to feel good through this incarnation.

2. I was a complete fool and the above statement is wrong. There is no Creator and there is no love in the moment. "Lights are out when we die". Hm, so what? It still made me to feel good to have this faith. And all those sceptics who might be telling me that I was wrong when "lights are out", wouldn't be there anyway, right?

With this being said, I completely understand what you mean! What's wrong with just one little teeny tiny proof just *once* dammit!

Thank you ankh This sums up how I feel about the situation as well. I was a bit of a cold a****** myself today. Which none the less resulted in me crying harder than I have ever cried in my entire life . I feel a little bit better now...sigh

---

A year or two ago I believed there was no meaning; Faith was absurd. I stagnated emotionally. I soon realized that if nothing was meaningful then everything was. Gradually I realized the self was simply a series of desires and beliefs and that most of these were deliberately hidden from myself, desires I considered childish, impractical. I then said every desire I had was of infinite worth. I am now happy, I now praise my existence, I now praise everything.

I am not in a utopia, I experience suffering. The difference is that I am grateful for every suffering and every pleasure, for every bit of existence is meaningful to me. I embrace it all, even what I cannot embrace.

If I were to give my philosophy a name, this would be it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivialism

Hedonism is woefully incomplete: It does not see pleasure in everything.

How did you get by when you felt like there was no meaning to anything? How did you turn it around, so to speak?

I reached the point of constant suicidal thinking and I knew death was inevitable and it would come, so I didn't act. I simply waited through life seeing where it would take me. I knew death would return me to another form of awareness that I would have to cope with, in meaninglessness or otherwise, so I reasoned that I might as well sit by and see what happens.

It naturally turned itself around from such. I just embraced my suffering and accepted it completely. Before I knew it, I started getting apparitions of golden sparks, showing me that this world was full of wonder.

Good things come to those who wait. Given enough time, you'll find yourself enjoying existence especially in a realm of existence such as this. There is no such thing as true hopelessness in this universe or any universe for that matter. Even the dead shall rise.

I hope you are right Adonai. I wish one day the universe will show its wonders to me.

[Ankh]

I was a bit of a cold a****** myself today. Which none the less resulted in me crying harder than I have ever cried in my entire life . I feel a little bit better now...sigh

I've had these periods too. I always feel more *humble*, more in touch with my heart and the creation after this.

Maybe these periods are like the storms and the rains which come from time to time, and which move in some sort of unifying, mysterious rhythms, and then comes the sunshine once again?

---

Maybe at the end of the day, it's all about this:

[Steppingfeet]

Hi all, just thought I'd get some things off of my chest. No better place to do so than this forum, I feel. As of late, I have lost almost all of my faith in those things which used to bring me comfort and give me some sort of meaning/purpose in this crazy thing called life. What is a life without faith and hope like? A lot of people seem to get by just fine without them. I'm not sure if I can however. Looking back now, even when my faith was at a "high", I was still quite unable to find any real or lasting solace/peace. I feel like some type of direct experience or proof is needed at this stage of my seeking. And what is wrong with that? I keep on repeating to myself that "there has to be more to life than this", but I am left wanting. I imagine this is something all types of seekers go through at some stage. Maybe this is a necessary step. Maybe that is just wishful thinking. Thank you everyone.

Hey Folk-Love, I presume this is not the first time you've been in this mode, and I feel confident this won't be the last. I've seen these cycles come and go in my own patterns. While the logical structure of my spiritual perspective always remains intact, I often lose the whole feeling-meaning behind it, and inner darkness/despair wins the day.

I think we need to be aware of the events within the world around us, but it is a faith-killer to place too much significance on those events and in the world's internal logic.

From virtually every corner of this plane of existence we are bombarded with messages that, above all, say one thing: you are separate, you are separate, you are separate, this is separate, we are separate. And from that core message springs all manner of distortion, disfunction, disharmony, misunderstanding, etc.

So if you place too much emphasis, weight, and value on that message, "the world" (including and especially your own thought patterns) will become opaque to the underlying truth of who you really are, and what this really is.

Yet, I don't think faith is ignoring the world's ways, per se, but rather seeing through them, making them transparent to the Creator that is fully, 100% present in everything. And by what faculty do we "rise above", as it were, the world's ways? What enables us to see through the mess?

Faith.

But, for most people, myself included, it's not an automatic function operating on its own. It needs consciously invoked. It needs consciously practiced. It needs meditated upon. Then it becomes real.

I don't think you should fight your current state. Accept it as it is. Observe it. Love it. Inquire/examine/analyze where helpful. But to create the space whereby faith can return, I think meditation, or some form of entering the silence, is crucial.

And by all means seek further understanding, and information, and knowledge! Push into the unknown. But, the big point here is, that revelation and understanding happens most efficiently through the attitude and practice of faith.

My thoughts at least. Please set aside if unhelpful, and love/light energy to your quest! GLB

[Matt1]

Faith is a strange one. I see faith like will power. Let it be unwavering, the mystery is always changing. Become the faith you seek.

[Adonai One]

Faith: Everything is acceptable and possible thus my desires can be fulfilled.

Lack-of-faith: Some things are acceptable and my desires cannot be fulfilled.

Negative-faith: Only my vision of reality is acceptable and my desires are always fulfilled at all costs.

[AnthroHeart]

I feel like I've lost faith in some regards. My atheist friend is very convincing about there being nothing after this life. Sometimes I want to believe him because not existing is less suffering than the troubles of life. That would mean there is no reason for me being here, and that I did not choose to be here. Much easier to believe than I chose to be here.

Sometimes it's easier to not have faith. Then I wouldn't have to worry about spiritually making the grade. I hear the border between 3rd and 4th density is very hard to pass. It takes a lot of effort to cross. Something I might not be cut out for.

Then I look at my avatar and realize that everything is ok either way. Regarding being a dick, I'm usually not like that to other people.

[Guardian]

A 10 day vipassana meditation always renews my faith.

www.dhamma.org

[anagogy]

I hear the border between 3rd and 4th density is very hard to pass. It takes a lot of effort to cross. Something I might not be cut out for.

Well, if you are a wanderer (and I would be surprised if you weren't), this won't be an issue you will really have to contend with. When you are discarnate, and beyond the veil, you will be able to reactivate your denser bodies and return to your native density.

[AnthroHeart]

I hear the border between 3rd and 4th density is very hard to pass. It takes a lot of effort to cross. Something I might not be cut out for.

Well, if you are a wanderer (and I would be surprised if you weren't), this won't be an issue you will really have to contend with. When you are discarnate, and beyond the veil, you will be able to reactivate your denser bodies and return to your native density.

Thanks anagogy for the vote of confidence.

[Stranger]

Folk-love,

I started out as an atheist. By this point, I've had enough subjective evidence in my life to completely overwhelm any doubts I had about the reality of the spiritual side of life. I've had heaps of confirmation of everything in Ra, Quo and Hatonn's messages, with the single exception of Jesus having been 4th density - which is absolutely remarkable accuracy, considering that distortion is the name of the third-density game. But I digress.

For me, it all started with Reiki. Seeing my wife beaming with joy after a 20 minute session where outwardly, nothing seemed to have happened to her; that got me intrigued. Then, feeling the unmistakable physical sensation of energy flow down the back of my neck after my own attunement, being able to experiment with it, switching it on and off. Based on my experience, I would recommend Reiki as a way to experience firsthand something that, at the very least, is not at all acknowledged or explored by conventional science.

More broadly, I understand this to be the density of choice. To preserve your free will, the choice must be made on faith rather than evidence. However, the more one moves with consistency toward either polarity, the more the veil begins to thin, perhaps in proportion to the degree of one's commitment to the choice. At some point, it would begin to take a highly concerted and stubborn refusal to acknowledge overwhelming evidence to continue clinging to the conventional worldview - the nihilistic/materialistic myth we are all indoctrinated into.

There appear to be exceptions to this pattern. Mother Teresa, based on her recently published letters, continued experiencing a "dark night of the soul" despite having been overwhelmingly STO. I don't know why; the process we're part of is ultimately a mystery. As I was told, "if you knew 15% of the truth about Creation, you would already know more than any human being who had ever lived." In most cases, however, I find the words of Augustine to be true:

"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe."

In other words, meditate and do the work required to grow in inner peace and in kindness to all living beings, and the direct experiences you seek will come in their own good time; in the meantime, your life will increase in happiness, and that is its own reward.

God bless.

[Plenum]

I keep on repeating to myself that "there has to be more to life than this", but I am left wanting. I imagine this is something all types of seekers go through at some stage. Maybe this is a necessary step. Maybe that is just wishful thinking. Thank you everyone.

Hiya Folk Love,

Ra identifies Faith with one of the Archetypes, The Star.

that particular archetype has the Placeholder of the 'catalyst of the spirit', and the image is represented as thus:

80.13 Questioner: Then is this, from the point of view or with respect to the fifteenth archetype, somewhat of an excursion into the Matrix of the Spirit in this process? Does that make any sense?

Ra: I am Ra. The excursion of which you speak and the process of disassociation is most usually linked with that archetype you call Hope which we would prefer to call Faith.

This archetype is the Catalyst of the Spirit and, because of the illuminations of the Potentiator of the Spirit, will begin to cause these changes in the adept’s viewpoint.

being one of the spirit archetypes, it's domain is not with the physical or the demonstrable, but rather with some sort of internal barometer or compass.

another way of examining one's faith is to ask - what inspires you? what do you look up to in the night sky as a guiding star?

[AnthroHeart]

I'm not completely losing faith. But there are days where there are things that I'd rather not do. But I have to. I sometimes feel trapped, and edgy.