Why I am not a vegan

[Ashim]

The hunter needs meat.

True. Hunters are easily identified by their sharp fangs, with which they can easily tear apart prey with only their teeth...and then they eagerly lap up the blood and delight in devouring the bloody, raw meat.

You picked up the wrong end of the stick.
I am the hunter.

Enjoyed the dramatics anyway.

[Diana]

You picked up the wrong end of the stick.
I am the hunter.

What do you mean by that—that you are the hunter?

[Unbound]

Sure, but that isn't just happening to animals, how do you pick and choose what suffering to focus on when there is so much?

Hi Unbound,
That's a good question. Imo, I think you focus on what you feel passionate about, what your talents and gifts are or what you feel called to do.

I don't know you well, but my impression is that you are a kick-a** energy-worker and healer, and if you focus on that you will help to alleviate so much suffering. We each can't do everything, but if all of us do something we can turn the tides even more quickly.

The energy-work is really (really) important, vital because in is in the subtle fields of consciousness (as you know) and therefore foundational to what happens in manifestation. Transmutation and working with the energies to unblock, remove obstructions and clearing the old world 3D energy, so that 4D can flow through is really important alleviation of suffering work. It's not inaction just because it is work on the inner planes. (might appear that way to some, but things are truly not as they appear)

I hope this helps.

It was actually just a general question, but your answer essentially matches my own and pretty much hits right on for what I am working on for myself and even what I have expressed as my practice in regards to this thread. I am doing heavy, active energy and internal work every day and constantly interacting with the consciousness of the planet, doing everything I can to bring light to darkness. I admit I may not get as much done externally as some others, but internally I am a workhorse and I do more work with energy in a week than some do in their entire lives. (Not that that is in any way "better", just the internal work being done is certainly not always recognized as being of impact)

---

(Actually, even externally I still am studying constantly and working on music to want to inspire people and constantly talking with people and giving guidance and healing wherever possible, so I guess my external life is pretty busy too...)

[Billy]

Sure, but that isn't just happening to animals, how do you pick and choose what suffering to focus on when there is so much?

Hi Unbound,
That's a good question. Imo, I think you focus on what you feel passionate about, what your talents and gifts are or what you feel called to do.

I don't know you well, but my impression is that you are a kick-a** energy-worker and healer, and if you focus on that you will help to alleviate so much suffering. We each can't do everything, but if all of us do something we can turn the tides even more quickly.

The energy-work is really (really) important, vital because in is in the subtle fields of consciousness (as you know) and therefore foundational to what happens in manifestation. Transmutation and working with the energies to unblock, remove obstructions and clearing the old world 3D energy, so that 4D can flow through is really important alleviation of suffering work. It's not inaction just because it is work on the inner planes. (might appear that way to some, but things are truly not as they appear)

I hope this helps.

It was actually just a general question, but your answer essentially matches my own and pretty much hits right on for what I am working on for myself and even what I have expressed as my practice in regards to this thread. I am doing heavy, active energy and internal work every day and constantly interacting with the consciousness of the planet, doing everything I can to bring light to darkness. I admit I may not get as much done externally as some others, but internally I am a workhorse and I do more work with energy in a week than some do in their entire lives. (Not that that is in any way "better", just the internal work being done is certainly not always recognized as being of impact)

---

(Actually, even externally I still am studying constantly and working on music to want to inspire people and constantly talking with people and giving guidance and healing wherever possible, so I guess my external life is pretty busy too...)

If you don't mind me asking, what does this internal work involve? Whats the difference between internal and external work?

---

What can I do to help heal the planet?

[Shemaya]

Glad there isn't a misunderstanding.

Let me expand a bit more on what I was trying to say. I'm interested in what causes transformation. To me transformation seems to operate in opposite fashion of how we approach reality..which is that what is wrong must be corrected..the battle. How can something new be created, something more refined and whole be called into existence, by repetition of a pattern? I don't think anything positive is created through force.

"Love/light is the enabler, the power, the energy giver."

"Enlightenment is of the moment, is an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?"

The question is how does one teach inspiration? What is inspiration exactly and how does it truly work on the magical level? To use an analogy, we are always holding onto a rope and pulling on both ends with each other..we're always resisting and the moment becomes moot..entropy..wasted energy. To radiate, to let go, to accept, to find relevant insight, to release control, to find love seems to act as the energy giver. I think when we do that, when we allow others (the infinite) to move and express themselves/itself rather than pull and create non-movement, we embody more of what is, the opposite energies mate and unify, creating spiritual wholeness that inspires and allows for new thoughts/possibility to resonate within the mind of the other individual on a metaphysical level. By radiating outwardly, it's as if you're sending out a light that offers a pathway for the other to find their way back home.

But those last two sentences kind of see the other as an object that requires changing or pulling something up to our level. So I think the task is to learn how to see ourselves or feel love for another, walking step by step alongside each other in the moment.

"To the disciplined entity, all things are open and free. The discipline which opens the universes opens also the gateways to evolution. The difference is that of choosing either to hitchhike to a place where beauty may be seen or to walk, step by step, independent and free in this independence to praise the strength to walk and the opportunity for the awareness of beauty."

"Thus we see protection being very simple. Give thanksgiving for each moment. See the self and the other-self as Creator. Open the heart. Always know the light and praise it. This is all the protection necessary."

This doesn't mean I've become numb..it's hard to explain the range of emotion I go through. Reality doesn't make sense and it's heartbreaking. I simply just wish we could all get along.

Awesome post, Icaro! I don't have time to reply much right now, but will definitely think on and process your thoughts.

A simple answer to how we stop a repetitive pattern is within the energy of the Archetype Transformation of the Body, Death. It is a death to the old way of being, and an initiation into a new level of consciousness and beingness.

[Diana]

The question is how does one teach inspiration? What is inspiration exactly and how does it truly work on the magical level? To use an analogy, we are always holding onto a rope and pulling on both ends with each other..we're always resisting and the moment becomes moot..entropy..wasted energy. To radiate, to let go, to accept, to find relevant insight, to release control, to find love seems to act as the energy giver. I think when we do that, when we allow others (the infinite) to move and express themselves/itself rather than pull and create non-movement, we embody more of what is, the opposite energies mate and unify, creating spiritual wholeness that inspires and allows for new thoughts/possibility to resonate within the mind of the other individual on a metaphysical level. By radiating outwardly, it's as if you're sending out a light that offers a pathway for the other to find their way back home.

So true. Not only in theory, but I have experienced this as we all might have in one circumstance or another.

How would you apply this to the suffering of animals? Not only from the human standpoint, but please include the ones suffering—the animals.

I ask this in all earnestness. I struggle all the time with this. Here at B4 I discuss it, but in the world I try and do all the time what you described above. The only way I can do it is to ignore the suffering of animals because it hurts too much. Example: I drive by properties all the time where their horses are in the AZ sun with no shade, in a small space of dirt, and the horses are just standing with their heads down, obviously depressed or unhappy. It breaks my heart. I can definitely forgive the ignorance of the owner. But what do I do about the poor horse? What do I do about my inability to see it and deal with it myself?

[isis]

So true. Not only in theory, but I have experienced this as we all might have in one circumstance or another.

How would you apply this to the suffering of animals? Not only from the human standpoint, but please include the ones suffering—the animals.

I ask this in all earnestness. I struggle all the time with this. Here at B4 I discuss it, but in the world I try and do all the time what you described above. The only way I can do it is to ignore the suffering of animals because it hurts too much. Example: I drive by properties all the time where their horses are in the AZ sun with no shade, in a small space of dirt, and the horses are just standing with their heads down, obviously depressed or unhappy. It breaks my heart. I can definitely forgive the ignorance of the owner. But what do I do about the poor horse? What do I do about my inability to see it and deal with it myself?

wth...i thought horses/cattle were required by law to have access to shade in places like the goddamn desert...actually i know it's required by law in the desert part of ca...& other places

no shade in a small space of dirt? might want to try contacting the humane society on that one

also have you considered writing an anonymous letter for the horse owners & telling them about your heart being broken every time u see their horses?

[Diana]

So true. Not only in theory, but I have experienced this as we all might have in one circumstance or another.

How would you apply this to the suffering of animals? Not only from the human standpoint, but please include the ones suffering—the animals.

I ask this in all earnestness. I struggle all the time with this. Here at B4 I discuss it, but in the world I try and do all the time what you described above. The only way I can do it is to ignore the suffering of animals because it hurts too much. Example: I drive by properties all the time where their horses are in the AZ sun with no shade, in a small space of dirt, and the horses are just standing with their heads down, obviously depressed or unhappy. It breaks my heart. I can definitely forgive the ignorance of the owner. But what do I do about the poor horse? What do I do about my inability to see it and deal with it myself?

wth...i thought horses/cattle were required by law to have access to shade in places like the goddamn desert...actually i know it's required by law in the desert part of ca...& other places

no shade in a small space of dirt? might want to try contacting the humane society on that one

also have you considered writing an anonymous letter for the horse owners & telling them about your heart being broken every time u see their horses?

There are so many properties like this and horses in this condition. There are properties in the city where the horse is just stuck day in day out in a little yard. Why do they have these horses? Maybe once a year they ride them talking on their cell phones. This is notwithstanding those who are more responsible in the care of their horses. Some do have shade, many don't. If I were to contact the humane society or write a letter to the property owners, it would be endless. But, it is a good idea to contact the humane society. Maybe they can address it. Even if the horses do have shade though, I see them on their spot of dirt just hanging their heads. Or they are trying to reach as far as they can to a tree branch outside of the fence and get a leaf or a leaf of a bush. It's so freaking sad. That's why I think all animals should be free in nature. Even aquarium fish. All of them. Of course we have a situation now where we have domesticated animals and they can't just be set free because we have debilitated their ability to survive.

[AnthroHeart]

I couldn't just let my dog go free in the front yard, although he does return to me. It breaks my heart when he runs off though, since I get worried about him. He definitely couldn't survive on his own.

I hope under my care that he's thriving rather than merely surviving. At least he doesn't starve like some wolves in the wild. And he has a warm place to sleep at night. Both my dogs do.

[isis]

It's so freaking sad. That's why I think all animals should be free in nature. Even aquarium fish. All of them. Of course we have a situation now where we have domesticated animals and they can't just be set free because we have debilitated their ability to survive.

i agree...animals should be free in nature...like u, i'm done having pets. the only real difference i see in animals & humans is that the animals can't talk

i recently got a cat (maui) bc she was a stray that was living at my parent's house...but i've decided to get rid of her & i've already found someone that i trust, & that has a house with a yard she can play in, willing to take her (the end of this month)

i can't stand being the one responsible for her being held captive. she's so awesome. when she gets mad at me (like for holding her too much) she slaps me w/o using her claws (she never intentionally scratches) & when she bites me she only nibbles (& it's only when i ask for it) & whenever me & my partner start bickering she starts meowing so loud over & over that we can't even hear each other well & if that doesn't make us stop she runs to another room.

plus, i'm currently in an apartment so i can't let her outside which is killing me - & her. i had planned to leash-train her but i decided i just really don't want to...how can it even be much fun being outside if u're on a leash? another thing, idk but i just can't make myself get her spayed. she would be such an awesome mom...she just went thru her 1st period of heat about a week ago...it was hilarious. 1st time i've gotten to witness a cat in heat. it changed her personality completely - made it to where she couldn't be aggressive at all, & to where it was impossible to hold/pet her too much, & she lost all interest in all of her toys lol

the person i'm giving her to is getting her "fixed" ...which i realize is a good thing...but for some reason i just can't be the one directly responsible for her getting her ovaries & uterus removed

another thing, just to make this post a little more relevant to this thread: i feel like the killing/torturing of animals no doubt needs to stop - but not the meat-eating. if one were to find an animal that died of old age then i think it should be fine to eat it. instead of burying humans i think it should be fine to eat them. imo, if something is edible then eating it should be ok. i love how buzzards typically don't kill for their meat but instead seek animals already dead

[Unbound]

Sure, but that isn't just happening to animals, how do you pick and choose what suffering to focus on when there is so much?

Hi Unbound,
That's a good question. Imo, I think you focus on what you feel passionate about, what your talents and gifts are or what you feel called to do.

I don't know you well, but my impression is that you are a kick-a** energy-worker and healer, and if you focus on that you will help to alleviate so much suffering. We each can't do everything, but if all of us do something we can turn the tides even more quickly.

The energy-work is really (really) important, vital because in is in the subtle fields of consciousness (as you know) and therefore foundational to what happens in manifestation. Transmutation and working with the energies to unblock, remove obstructions and clearing the old world 3D energy, so that 4D can flow through is really important alleviation of suffering work. It's not inaction just because it is work on the inner planes. (might appear that way to some, but things are truly not as they appear)

I hope this helps.

It was actually just a general question, but your answer essentially matches my own and pretty much hits right on for what I am working on for myself and even what I have expressed as my practice in regards to this thread. I am doing heavy, active energy and internal work every day and constantly interacting with the consciousness of the planet, doing everything I can to bring light to darkness. I admit I may not get as much done externally as some others, but internally I am a workhorse and I do more work with energy in a week than some do in their entire lives. (Not that that is in any way "better", just the internal work being done is certainly not always recognized as being of impact)

---

(Actually, even externally I still am studying constantly and working on music to want to inspire people and constantly talking with people and giving guidance and healing wherever possible, so I guess my external life is pretty busy too...)

If you don't mind me asking, what does this internal work involve? Whats the difference between internal and external work?

---

What can I do to help heal the planet?

Aha That is a rather big subject, you can peruse my post a few pages back where I explained the gist of my technique although some of the techniques I have already taught you are part of it. As I recommended to Diana, you can start examining the principles of Hermetics and read The Kybalion by Three Initiates.

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/kybalion.pdf

As for the difference between internal and external work, one refers to workings within the being, others refer to the activities of the body in the environment and "outside" world. Properly thinking, both influence eachother and this is why the external can be influenced by the internal and the internal by the external. I am making use of the principle of correspondence between the internal and external to use internal work to affect changes in the external. It is "slow" work often because, well, the collective mind on this planet is huge, lots of work to be done.

Although it seems there are a lot whom are curious about this so maybe I should start putting together a basic guidance to give people a direction to explore.

[AnthroHeart]

Aha That is a rather big subject, you can peruse my post a few pages back where I explained the gist of my technique although some of the techniques I have already taught you are part of it. As I recommended to Diana, you can start examining the principles of Hermetics and read The Kybalion by Three Initiates.

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/kybalion.pdf

Sounds profound, but way too big for me to get into. I don't know what I am missing. I guess ignorance is bliss.

[Unbound]

You got something better to do with your time?

[AnthroHeart]

You got something better to do with your time?

I emailed it to my home. I'll see if I can get into it after I finish the book I'm currently on.

[native]

Awesome post, Icaro! I don't have time to reply much right now, but will definitely think on and process your thoughts.

A simple answer to how we stop a repetitive pattern is within the energy of the Archetype Transformation of the Body, Death. It is a death to the old way of being, and an initiation into a new level of consciousness and beingness.

Thanks! It certainly seems to be a part of it..what Ra refers to as the disciplines of the personality in general.

---

I ask this in all earnestness. I struggle all the time with this. Here at B4 I discuss it, but in the world I try and do all the time what you described above. The only way I can do it is to ignore the suffering of animals because it hurts too much. Example: I drive by properties all the time where their horses are in the AZ sun with no shade, in a small space of dirt, and the horses are just standing with their heads down, obviously depressed or unhappy. It breaks my heart. I can definitely forgive the ignorance of the owner. But what do I do about the poor horse? What do I do about my inability to see it and deal with it myself?

I really don't know. I get frustrated about things all the time also, including this issue, and I sometimes think we have to admit that we really don't understand a lot of things. I think we definitely have to be mindful of our emotions and anger..not to direct anger towards others consciously.

I ask myself daily about what I'm supposed to be doing, how I may best help..as it's all very confusing and challenging. One thing that seems certain is we have to give back and perform some kind of service..big or small. It would seem logical that we should address foundational issues of a crumbling house first..so something related to survival needs and the least among us. Food, shelter, healthcare, clothing etc..that's my opinion at least.

Also, since visualization is the tool of the adept, and if we really believe in the mystical, perhaps one of the keys is to live a more ritualistic/sacred life.

Interestingly enough, I also drive by this one horse..he's a smaller one don't know what you call them. It depresses me because the horse is clearly miserable, but luckily there is a tree in the one corner for it to stand.

Would anyone like to try an experiment with group visualization involving these horses?

[Diana]

Also, since visualization is the tool of the adept, and if we really believe in the mystical, perhaps one of the keys is to live a more ritualistic/sacred life.

Interestingly enough, I also drive by this one horse..he's a smaller one don't know what you call them. It depresses me because the horse is clearly miserable, but luckily there is a tree in the one corner for it to stand.

Would anyone like to try an experiment with group visualization involving these horses?

Yes. I am interested definitely.

[Unbound]

I will gladly add my focus to aid the horses. Horses are rad.

[native]

Awesome!

Here's what I suggest as symbols. These horses are clearly lonely..so in the name of coming together and supporting each other, we will picture one smaller horse and one larger horse enjoying each other's company under a large tree. Any suggestions? Anything to add? It would be nice to all do it at the same time, but I think intent is the only thing that matters. I will visualize it during meditation once a day or every other day.

[Diana]

Awesome!

Here's what I suggest as symbols. These horses are clearly lonely..so in the name of coming together and supporting each other, we will picture one smaller horse and one larger horse enjoying each other's company under a large tree. Any suggestions? Anything to add? It would be nice to all do it at the same time, but I think intent is the only thing that matters. I will visualize it during meditation once a day or every other day.

That sounds fine. What time will you be doing this and I will do it at that time if possible. I work for myself so I am somewhat flexible. And we can also coordinate with others who would like to do it as well.

Perhaps we could start a B4 visualization time for once per week or whatever, on any subject general or particular—even just love for the whole planet.

[Unbound]

What we can do is when we each do this meditation and build this image, we can visualize it as though we are continually adding to and empowering one single image which is shared between us all, so it is "remembered" continuously even if we aren't focusing on it. This is basically building a thought-form held by multiple minds which will then be "picked up" by the consciousness of the Earth and thus energies shall organize themselves towards the intention inherent in the image. (Just saying to elucidate my own thoughts on the process.)

I like the image though, it is good and simple, represents a trinity and balance between animal, plant and earth with ourselves, humans, as giving aid.

[Diana]

What we can do is when we each do this meditation and build this image, we can visualize it as though we are continually adding to and empowering one single image which is shared between us all, so it is "remembered" continuously even if we aren't focusing on it. This is basically building a thought-form held by multiple minds which will then be "picked up" by the consciousness of the Earth and thus energies shall organize themselves towards the intention inherent in the image. (Just saying to elucidate my own thoughts on the process.)

I like the image though, it is good and simple, represents a trinity and balance between animal, plant and earth with ourselves, humans, as giving aid.

Great idea. I love it.

[Unbound]

Awesome!

Here's what I suggest as symbols. These horses are clearly lonely..so in the name of coming together and supporting each other, we will picture one smaller horse and one larger horse enjoying each other's company under a large tree. Any suggestions? Anything to add? It would be nice to all do it at the same time, but I think intent is the only thing that matters. I will visualize it during meditation once a day or every other day.

That sounds fine. What time will you be doing this and I will do it at that time if possible. I work for myself so I am somewhat flexible. And we can also coordinate with others who would like to do it as well.

Perhaps we could start a B4 visualization time for once per week or whatever, on any subject general or particular—even just love for the whole planet.

This is not a criticism or anything like that, but I would like to say that from my experience while I love the "love the planet and everything" kinds of meditations, they produce a lot of bliss for sure, I do not see them as effectual towards actuating tangible positive change as something of more specificity although it can certainly produce lots of light and love. I am only saying so to express my understanding of the "mechanism" of mental impressing.

[native]

Great idea Unbound. I like the idea of being flexible and able to just add to the image whenever, but I will make a point to meditate on it at 10:30 p.m. EST since I don't get done at work until later. That or at like 9 a.m. in the morning, but I like Unbound's idea of adding to and empowering a shared image. It's as if the scene just exists, and we each appear within it at our leisure to observe.

Diana - I was thinking the same thing about a B4th group visualization..we could change the image every so often. Did you know that B4th already does a daily gaia meditation?

*edit

[Unbound]

So that would be 7:30pm PST for me, sounds good, I will do my best to remember at the time even if I am working since my job is pretty simple and uses more my body than my mind.

[Diana]

Great idea Unbound. I like the idea of being flexible and able to just add to the image whenever, but I will make a point to meditate on it at 10:30 p.m. EST since I don't get done at work until later. That or at like 9 a.m. in the morning, but I like Unbound's idea of adding to and empowering a shared image. It's as if the scene just exists, and we each appear within it at our leisure to observe.

So that would be 7:30pm PST for me, sounds good, I will do my best to remember at the time even if I am working since my job is pretty simple and uses more my body than my mind.

I think I'm on PST right now, but I will check for sure and join at 10:30 p.m. EST (early morning I'm iffy ). I'm in.

Diana - I was thinking the same thing about a B4th group visualization..we could change the image every so often. Did you know that B4th already does a daily gaia meditation?

No I didn't. I will check it out. The more the better in creating energy for healing and change.

[native]

Ooook!

---

I think I'm on PST right now

lol you don't know?

[Diana]

This is not a criticism or anything like that, but I would like to say that from my experience while I love the "love the planet and everything" kinds of meditations, they produce a lot of bliss for sure, I do not see them as effectual towards actuating tangible positive change as something of more specificity although it can certainly produce lots of light and love. I am only saying so to express my understanding of the "mechanism" of mental impressing.

Are you saying it would be more efficacious to focus on something very specific? I'd rather do that anyway.

---

Ooook!

---

I think I'm on PST right now

lol you don't know?

No. Arizona doesn't change, so I never keep track of whether I'm on PST or the other one.

[native]

Ahhh ok..haha!

[Monica]

Can someone please explain to me why you don't want the horses to be uncomfortable, but it's ok to actually KILL cows? I'm confused.

[Unbound]

This is not a criticism or anything like that, but I would like to say that from my experience while I love the "love the planet and everything" kinds of meditations, they produce a lot of bliss for sure, I do not see them as effectual towards actuating tangible positive change as something of more specificity although it can certainly produce lots of light and love. I am only saying so to express my understanding of the "mechanism" of mental impressing.

Are you saying it would be more efficacious to focus on something very specific? I'd rather do that anyway.

---

Ooook!

---

I think I'm on PST right now

lol you don't know?

No. Arizona doesn't change, so I never keep track of whether I'm on PST or the other one.

Yes, the horses are a good example, or the cows as Monica says, which could be another shared image we create to be expressed through the planetary mind in the minds of the people.