Dewey B. Larson and RST

[biknewb]

You are probably right Mr R. This is a nice example of the limitations of language. The words "higher self" were the closest thing I could think of for the time/space part of me.
Not only language is limiting (these) thoughts, the fact that thinking happens largely in the brain, is another danger for illusion to reckon with. You probably knew that...
I may not have been humble enough in my ideas, but I am glad you like them.

[3D Sunset]

My space/time existence allows me free movement in space within one thread of time. This thread in time is one-dimensional to me, but is changing with every decision I make. (Write a letter, push a button, sneeze)
My time/space counterpart, my higher self, is free to move in time between every possible past and future. To my higher self, space appears one-dimensional. He cannot influence it directly, but only offer possibilities, directions.
To be of the most efficient service to the purpose of life, we should work together.
The focus, where space/time and time/space touch each other, is in the Here and Now.
When space/time-me makes the right decisions, based upon the opportunities offered by time/space-me, we can together direct our six dimensional thread in the best direction we together know. And my higher self probably knows best..

Am I make any sense here?

Those are some good ideas and I think probably have a lot of truth to them about the higher self, but does higher-self = t/s part of self? I'm not entirely sure. I sort of thought that the t/s part of us was sort of like our soul and was definately different and more in touch with the higher self, but not the higher self per se. For instance in an NDE, a person walks about and experiences themself as relatively the same or at least not a higher self, then if they go to the light and go to realms where their vibrations can run higher, they seem to be more in touch with the higher self part of them. So, it seems to me like the t/s part of us is not necessarily any more in touch with the higher self than the s/t part, even though both, of course, really ARE the higher self all along, in disguise. See what I'm saying? So I think what you're saying probably is true about the higher self, but that higher self does not necessarily equal t/s self. s/t and t/s selves are just two halves of one self that are both laboring under different types of the same illusion and thereby both are working towards becoming the higher self, or more acurately nothing but it, since they already are it.
You smell what I'm steppin in?

Good discussions, both of you. I think it's important to note that according to Larson, what we might consider the higher self exists in a dimension that is beyond both s/t and t/s. He calls this "Sector 3" in his book "Beyond Space and Time", and develops some interesting arguments as to why this controlling force transcends the physical universe (which includes both the "material" sector, or sector 1, or s/t, and the "cosmic" sector, or sector 2, or t/s).

It's also important to note that Ra describes his existence as being outside of t/s and s/t. It seems to me that multiple time treads that contain simultaneous "you"s may actually exist in separate instances of s/t - t/s dualities, and the higher self is able to manage them all from its higher plane. Note that this is my own interpretation. I haven't found any references that would either confirm or deny this theory, but it allows us to avoid a paradox or two.

Sorry that I haven't been as active lately, I've been reviewing a lot of RST lately and am trying to present some more information about the duality of t/s and s/t. Suffice it to say, that it is incorrect to view them as dual symmetric portions of reality, like looking in a mirror. It is more accurate, I think, to view them the positive and negative images of a photograph... but this still doesn't really do the difference justice. Consider, for example, the fact that the force of entropy which, in s/t moves to reduce order in space, has an equivalent force in t/s that moves to create higher order in time.

Love and Light, and food for thought,

3D Sunset

[MisterRabbit]

Sorry that I haven't been as active lately, I've been reviewing a lot of RST lately and am trying to present some more information about the duality of t/s and s/t. Suffice it to say, that it is incorrect to view them as dual symmetric portions of reality, like looking in a mirror. It is more accurate, I think, to view them the positive and negative images of a photograph... but this still doesn't really do the difference justice. Consider, for example, the fact that the force of entropy which, in s/t moves to reduce order in space, has an equivalent force in t/s that moves to create higher order in time.

So that's one thing I've been trying to understand: if every s/t particle has a t/s element, then how is it that s/t can be oriented towards entropy while t/s is oriented towards higher order? I mean I think it's a great idea and that it makes sense, but I just don't understand how that can be necessarily...like does that mean that in non-living matter that the s/t forces influence on the particle/molecule is more in control, but if it becomes a part of a living thing the t/s part takes hold more? Or is it more like...I don't know how to explain this...that even the coming together of a molecule, or a planet for that matter, is t/s influence on s/t (so in other words if s/t was the only influence there would be no order whatsoever, just dust floating around or something like that)? So one could almost say that the balance between order and chaos, or order and entropy, is the balance between space/time and time/space?
So I think a big part of the concept that I'm trying to grapple with here is how can a particle exist simultaneously in s/t and t/s if they are pulling it in opposite directions? It almost seems like it would have to be doing one thing in s/t and another in t/s, but I think that I'm realizing now that they are more like the influences on it.

Or not. Do you think I'm on the right track here?

[ubergud]

I don't want to derail the line of thought, but this (order/chaos) line of thought reminded me of my wonder at the simultaneous appearance of both 'turmoil' and 'order' in the world. It is like the tension between the two is what appears to 'make the world go round'. Witnessing as a 'cog' in a complex 'machine' the way the world's systems operate with so much 'controlled chaos' is as much a mystery as anything else in the universe to me. It is one of the mysteries that has never stopped tugging at my curiosity.

In other seeking I have read that that the understanding the '3rd man theme' is part of our 3rd density journey. I wonder if that is akin to the will or awakening or spirit or consciousness being present in balancing or affecting s/t and t/s. Mind [t/s], Body [s/t], Spirit [balancer, free will, ???].

Peace and Joy,

Jason

[3D Sunset]

So that's one thing I've been trying to understand: if every s/t particle has a t/s element, then how is it that s/t can be oriented towards entropy while t/s is oriented towards higher order? I mean I think it's a great idea and that it makes sense, but I just don't understand how that can be necessarily.

It is actually a necessary consequence of the reciprocal nature of space and time. By definition (although the proof is rather complicated), to decrease order in space, is to increase order in time.

Like does that mean that in non-living matter that the s/t forces influence on the particle/molecule is more in control, but if it becomes a part of a living thing the t/s part takes hold more?

Yes, that is exactly what Larson proposes.

Or is it more like...I don't know how to explain this...that even the coming together of a molecule, or a planet for that matter, is t/s influence on s/t (so in other words if s/t was the only influence there would be no order whatsoever, just dust floating around or something like that)?

Note that atoms combining into molecules or planets forming from interstellar dust are largely due to the of s/t attributes of matter, namely gravity and atomic attraction which, per RST, is a function of balancing motions of the composite atoms. Still, the ultimate cohesion of matter into solids does also have a t/s attribute which allows the atoms to be brought closer together than 1 unit space (the closest they could get due to gravity alone), by moving them slightly farther apart in time. I think this gets back to one of your original questions about strange attractors and chaos theory. I feel fairly certain that strange attractors per chaos theory are related to similar aspects of t/s interaction with s/t.

So I think a big part of the concept that I'm trying to grapple with here is how can a particle exist simultaneously in s/t and t/s if they are pulling it in opposite directions? It almost seems like it would have to be doing one thing in s/t and another in t/s, but I think that I'm realizing now that they are more like the influences on it.

Here's what's happening (as I currently understand it). Matter is able to form and congeal in s/t (aka the material sector). Coincident with this congealed material matter is an equal and opposite amount of t/s (aka cosmic) matter. If the material and cosmic matter were to meet, they would mutually destroy each other. Although this does happen on rare occasions, it doesn't happen often in s/t because the cosmic matter is spread out over the vastness of space.

At the same time, cosmic matter is able to congeal and form in t/s. This congealed cosmic matter in t/s can be thought of as just a different way of looking at the same cosmic matter that is spread out in space. But you are looking at on the stage of t/s. On this stage, material matter is spread out through time. The same order still exists, you are just looking at it from a different perspective. Kind of like the headstones in Arlington National Cemetery. If you're placed in the right position, they are beautifully ordered in rows and columns, and amazing diagonals, but move just a few paces in the wrong direction, and all you see is chaoticly placed rocks.

So you see, they are not really pulling in opposite directions, there is one force that has two different manifestations. "Disorder in space" is the flip side to coin which is "order in time". You can't have a coin with only one side, and the equilibrium between t/s and s/t is constantly maintained simply due to the cause and effect of any motion occurring on either stage.

I haven't attempted to include the concepts of consciousness and control yet, although this is next step once we have obtained a consensus on these and a few other basics.

I believe that we are getting close. Does this help?

3D Sunset

[biknewb]

Like does that mean that in non-living matter that the s/t forces influence on the particle/molecule is more in control, but if it becomes a part of a living thing the t/s part takes hold more?

Yes, that is exactly what Larson proposes.

Tesla experimented with longitudinal EM waves, also called "radiant energy". These rays feel like a pushing force to humans, but the same rays attract non-living matter, like metal strips. There is a video with a demonstration somewhere, I'll look it up.
Very strange phenomenon, but RST might have an explanation?

And yes, 3D, it helps

[MisterRabbit]

Yes, it helps. I am reminded that I still don't understand the RST notion of time, but still, it helps. But I still have questions...I think

so...let's see here...you're saying that to come apart and dissipate in s/t is to come together in t/s? Ok, this runs contrary to what I was beginning to think, then. You really are saying that a particle is in one place here and another in t/s? Or perhaps I'm still thinking of t/s as another parallel s/t instead of something with an altogether different structure...

I'm going to have to sit on this one for a bit

[3D Sunset]

you're saying that to come apart and dissipate in s/t is to come together in t/s?

Yes, but probably not the way you mean that. As things move closer together in 3-space, they move farther apart in 3-time. What's really weird, is that the atoms that make up everything around us, must necessarily be separated in 3-time, since they are obviously in close proximity in 3-space. But how can that be? They are also obviously gathered together in time right here, right now! This is the significance of time being scalar in s/t. The atoms are spread out in 3-time, but their locations map onto a single scalar time as per the pencil exercise earlier.

Your statement is accurate, but misleading in that when things "come apart and dissipate in s/t" they still stay in fairly close proximity to each other (Earth is very, very small compared to the vastness of space). So, it would be more accurate to say that "to come apart and dissipate in s/t is to move closer together in t/s?".

You really are saying that a particle is in one place here and another in t/s? Or perhaps I'm still thinking of t/s as another parallel s/t instead of something with an altogether different structure...

In reality each particle is located at a single "place" in 6-dimensional space-time. Unfortunately though, space and time share no common reference frame except through motion. So we are only able to perceive this location on one of two equal and opposite stages (i.e., s/t and t/s), in which the three dimensions of one reference frame exist, and that of the other are compressed into a scalar. One can locate every particle on each of the two "stages", but their "locations" on one stage has no bearing on its location of the other.

Now add in the fact that every particle also has an associated antiparticle also located somewhere in 6-D s-t, and mapped to two different locations in s/t and t/s and you've pretty much got the whole picture.

For a change, I thought it would be interesting to see some of Ra's quotes about t/s and s/t (taken from the Law of One Study Guide V2). I have added some comments in bold italic, and I've underlined some comments by the author of the Study Guide.

RA: In space/time the spatial orientation of material causes a tangible framework for illusion. In time/space the inequity is upon the shoulders of what you call time. This property renders entities and experiences intangible in a relative sense.

In your framework (note: this is confusing, because we consider our framework to be s/t, not t/s, but he is clearly referring to t/s) each particle or core vibration moves at a velocity which approaches what you call the speed of light from the direction of superlumimal velocities (i.e., approaches the speed of light from faster than the speed of light) . In these metaphysical planes there is a great deal of what you call time which is used to review and re-review the learn/teachings of a prior, as you would call it, space/time incarnation. The extreme fluidity of these regions makes it possible for much to be penetrated which must needs be absorbed before the process of healing of an entity may be accomplished. Each entity is located in a somewhat immobile state much as you are located in space/time in a somewhat immobile state in time (ie, it's not that time is immobile but that the flow of time is unchangeable and lacking in mobility). Depending upon this time/space locus there will be certain helpers which assist in this healing process. The process involves seeing in full the experience, seeing it against the backdrop of the mind/body/spirit complex total experience, forgiving the self of all mis-steps as regards the missed guideposts during the incarnation and, finally, the careful assessment of the next necessities for learning. This is done entirely by the Higher Self until an entity has become conscious in space/time of the process and means of spiritual evolution at which time the entity will consciously take part in all decisions. (B3,157)

From this description, you get some appreciation for what it means to be placed in t/s. First, note that cosmic matter, that coalesces in t/s, was formed by motion that deviated from unity by accelerating beyond the speed of light (i.e., unit velocity per RST) in one or more dimensions of scalar motion. Similarly, ordinary matter, that coalesces in s/t, was formed by motion that deviated from unit velocity by slowing down in one or more dimensions of scalar motion. I plan to cover this in more detail in a future post.

Consider now the life review in t/s. Space is relatively fixed, but you have a lot of flexibility to examine the action from a variety of points of view in time. Thus, one is afforded the opportunity to examine every aspect of the life and see exactly what was done, what was not done, what catalysts were efficiently used, and which were only partially used, or missed entirely. Once all the necessary "time" is used evaluating a particular "space" in the previous life, it moves forward to the next "space", where things are examined anew.

RA: In space/time it is not possible to determine the course of events beyond the incarnation but only to correct present imbalances. In time/space, on the other hand, it is not possible to correct any unbalanced actions but rather to perceive the imbalances and thusly forgive the self for that which is. The advantage of time/space is that of the fluidity of the overview. The advantage of space/time is that, working in a darkness with a tiny candle, one may correct the imbalances. (B3,158)

I love this quote. I've dwelt many times on the choice of the word "fluidity". I think this is a significant choice of words on Ra's part, for with our scalar view of time, we do not experience it as fluid, it is choppy, our minds are forced to skip from subject to subject, moment to moment in a seemingly stepwise matter. Our space, though, is fluid and flowing. We easily visualize how the world spreads continuously from our visual point of origin. In t/s, time is fluid and space seems to tick along. Note also that when viewing things in t/s we are also viewing them in the context of all previous actions and past lives that led up to our current biases, blindnesses and predilections. Thus, our distilled experiences and imbalances are readily visible in a time-fluid framework.

T I M E/ S P A C E H A S I T S O W N S T R U C T U R E A N D L A W S
RA: Time/space is no more homogeneous than space/time. It is as complex and complete a system of illusions, dances and patterns as is space/time and has as structured a system of what you may call natural laws. (B3,152)

Hence this thread, to help us understand the t/s system, thus hopefully allowing us to more effectively achieve our purposes for incarnation.

DON: The Higher Self is reluctant to enter the negative time/space because then it has to incarnate in negative space/time. Can you explain this? (B3,151)

RA: In time/space, which is precisely as much of your self as is space/time, all times are simultaneous just as, in your geography, your cities and villages are all functioning, bustling and alive with entities going about their business all at once.

So it is in time/space with the self. Each time/space is an analog of a particular sort or vibration of space/time. When a negative time/space is entered by an entity the next experience will be that of the appropriate space/time (ie, a negative space/time). This is done by the form-making body of a mind/body/spirit complex which places the entity in the proper time/space for incarnation. (B3,151)

So we all have t/s equivalent bodies that exist at the appropriate "locations" in t/s. Here, I think it may actually be easier to perceive of negative t/s, than negative s/t. Ever since reading LOO, I've wondered what it might mean if one accidentally stumbled into negative s/t. I suppose that this is not possible, though since one apparently moves into negative s/t only from negative t/s. Does this mean then, that all 3D existence is in neutral space/time, and between incarnations, we move to neutral time/space? It doesn't seem correct that the area of the choice should be done in either positive or negative space/time. This too, is an area for further discussion (Note: I've started a new thread on this topic on the "Strictly Law of One" forum.)

Just as interestingly though, this seems to imply that some of the "bodies" that make up the mind/body/spirit complex seem to be outside of s/t and t/s altogether. How else could the indigo, form making body "place the entity in the proper t/s for reincarnation".

Enough for now, sorry for the long post. There's a lot to chew on here. What do you think?

3D Sunset

[MisterRabbit]

I really liked this, it was good to see some things Ra has said to sort of put it in context.
I especially liked the bit about s/t being that part that slowed down from the speed of light, and t/s being the part that sped up from it. This is what you were saying right? And yet, unit velocity is the base, right? Woah that kinda makes my head spin. So then the base vibration is unit velocity, and s/t and t/s are two simultaneously existing...yes, reciprocal...aspects of that...I'm beginning to see the big picture a little better, although it's still challenging.
So let's see here...if for every particle in s/t there is a corresponding particle in t/s, but their relationship to eachother is opposite (closer s/t = farther t/s) then...do they simply not have very much to do with eachother? I mean they ARE eachother sort of but...I just keep picturing every particle here being completely somewhere else in t/s...like I had thought that t/s was just another dimension of reality sort of superimposed on this one or existing in simultaneous space, like another s/t with different rules. but I guess that isn't quite right, which I should have caught on to earlier. So here is my question...how is it that when we die, that which rises up and views our body is our t/s self? I mean...that makes it seem like another s/t, but then I also know that the point is they are supposed to go into the lightm and thereby to s/t I guess. So...I guess it all comes back to that boger time, and trying to imagine it as a vector. Ra's and NDE experiencers' descriptions are the closest I've come to being able to try and imagine it. But this last post definately did make some advances in that endeavor for me. thank you

[ubergud]

This perspective on t/s and s/t brings to mind experiences with mind altering substances. I mention this due to (albeit very minor and past) personal experience (and also atypical) with a well known herb. At the time I was hyper focused on being conscious of its affect (and how it differed from experiences with alcohol). Due to this, I had 0 affect in the first say 20 minutes, and subsequently repeated to determine if I would have any noticeable response at all. After standing up, and walking around, I had an immediate reaction with two metaphysical experiences I recall with great clarity:

1. Time took on what I recently have associated with a longitudinal wave like quality. That is it was both compressed and stretched in a 'wave' pattern (along with my ability to 'be'). It's difficult to describe, but reminds me of this reciprocal nature, like rhythmically bouncing between t/s and s/t. The effect was I would have compressed moments of clarity where I was 'in the moment' and could describe things conversationally but like I was on extra caffeine, followed by moments where I couldn't move or speak hardly at all, but only witness with abstract wonder things in a manner I wouldn't otherwise notice. It was an experience I had struggled to figure out, but this thread brought it back to me with new relevance. Also, I notably had a strikingly strong interest in music, like I was actually hearing it for the first time, much more so than previously.

2. A friend's head distorted during a conversation such that the top half of his head was cartoonishly larger than the rest of his head (as if it were temporarily encompassed in an upside down triangle) We both remember me relating this to him, I said he looked like a 'mad scientist' after trying to wrap my mind around it as it was visibly as 'real' as anything I have ever seen.

I wouldn't normally have brought this up here, but I personally found it similar to an NDE in it's affect on my view of the metaphysical world (albeit without the positive spiritual component other meditative experiences have held for me metaphysically) afterward. Also, as I mentioned above, the longitudinal wave aspect to the manner in which time and space were altered during the experience I felt worth noting here.

Peace and Joy,

Jason

[biknewb]

3D Sunset, you really know how to bring these concepts closer. Thank you.
One of the problems with imagining t/s is the fact that we think in 3D space coordinates. Imagining t/s would be easier if we could replace our s/t word "location" with a t/s equivalent. I was thinking about "temptation" but this would be even more confusing ;-) . Another candidate is "possibilation" or "possibation".

So we might have a particle in s/t in a certain location with a counterpart in t/s on a specific possibation.

Light and Love
Gerard

[MisterRabbit]

Well, yeah, normally we refer to location as being spatio-temporal, but what we kinda mean in common everyday language is just spatial. And of course, when you're saying spatio-temporal, you still mean at a certain place in space vector along linear time. Temporo-spatial? That might work.
Yes, I must say that the biggest challenge of RST, at least for me, is to think in terms of the functions of space and time being reversed, particularly the issue of 3D time. I have a feeling this is something I will be trying at for a while, so if we feel like we can skip it and move on to other things, and maybe come back to it from time to time, that might be best. I'll leave that one up to 3D, since he's the teach/learner in this thread.

yeah, ubergud, I do think that it's very possible that many other substances may give us access to t/s or at least to our t/s aspects of ourselves, or just give us insight into it. But this would be difficult to judge would it not? The variety of these experiences is so great you can really only scratch your head and wonder, thinking "hmmm maybe..." I'm thinking particularly of hallucinogens, here. Some experiences are more obviously this than others, though, such as chemically induced "mystical experiences" where the veil may very well be pierced. I think this is almost certain, and Ra even mentioned it somewhere in there...though not necessarily advocating it. So I would say it's possible that someone who has had many such experiences may find it easier to imagine (or remember) what t/s is like. Mind altering substances are definately a good, albeit unpredictable and highly interpretable, source.

[3D Sunset]

So here is my question...how is it that when we die, that which rises up and views our body is our t/s self? I mean...that makes it seem like another s/t, but then I also know that the point is they are supposed to go into the lightm and thereby to s/t I guess. So...I guess it all comes back to that boger time, and trying to imagine it as a vector. Ra's and NDE experiencers' descriptions are the closest I've come to being able to try and imagine it. But this last post definitely did make some advances in that endeavor for me. thank you

This is a question I'm still wrestling with myself. My intuitive feeling is that what leaves the body after death, or travels in OBE's and NDE's is really an aspect of the spirit, which I believe transcends s/t and t/s. I've been trying to reconcile this with LOO and Beyond Space and Time, and frankly I'm having trouble finding specific references in Ra's words. There are times when Ra implies such an existence, but others where he states categorically that t/s is the entire metaphysical plane.

Dewey points to three separate planes though, the physical (s/t), the cosmic (t/s) and the metaphysical wherein he concludes our ethical or moral behavior originates. Using parallels to TLOO, the material would be the realm of the body, the cosmic would be the realm of the mind, and the metaphysical would be the realm of the spirit.

Imagining t/s would be easier if we could replace our s/t word "location" with a t/s equivalent.

I've wrestled with this several times myself (pun intended). How about a "moment" in t/s and a "location" in s/t? This word is fairly simple and one that we are used to associating with time. It also has, to me at least, the advantage of pulling together the time and space elements, since I'm used to thinking of the moment as having aspects of both.

As MisterRabbit pointed out, this would actually leave our word "location" somewhat lacking since it's association with time is more assumed in our current world, but I think we can live with it.

I'll leave that one up to 3D, since he's the teach/learner in this thread.

I do appreciate that compliment, but we are each playing both the role of teach / learner and learn / teacher here. Whatever tricks have come forward to give us each a better grasp of these concepts, have mostly come from a larger source than my mind. I have been tapping in to a consciousness with a greater comprehension of the material than I have organically (a lot of my analogies are coming directly from dreams or images received during meditation). I must say that having this forum has made the concepts and relationships of RST and TLOO even more clear to me, and that was my primary purpose for starting the thread.

As to how we proceed from here, I can suggest a few directions, and would appreciate your feedback.

- Back to the basics of RTS - the photon, the atom and building of molecules from "Nothing but Motion"

- Deeper into the metaphysical aspects of RST that Dewey explores in "Beyond Space and Time".

- Explore more synergies between LOO and RTS.

Let me know,

3D Sunset

---

[biknewb]

Imagining t/s would be easier if we could replace our s/t word "location" with a t/s equivalent.

I've wrestled with this several times myself (pun intended). How about a "moment" in t/s and a "location" in s/t? This word is fairly simple and one that we are used to associating with time. It also has, to me at least, the advantage of pulling together the time and space elements, since I'm used to thinking of the moment as having aspects of both.

The reason I tried to find a completely new word, was that 3D time in t/s must be something totally different from our experience in space and time. Using a new word would avoid associations with s/t concepts.
AFAIK a single point in 3D time might be one of a very large amount of possibilities in past and future.

---

My vote:
- Back to the basics of RTS - the photon, the atom and building of molecules from "Nothing but Motion"
but I'm curious about the other two too.

Gerard

[MisterRabbit]

Well, you know, we could do all at the same time, sort of as they arise, or one at a time. We don't have to exclude any. Personally I'm pretty interested in better understanding the spirit complex, and this third realm beyond the physical and metaphysical. I havn't been able to keep reading on Beyond Space and Time, but Maybe I can squeeze in a bit.

[3D Sunset]

Well, you know, we could do all at the same time, sort of as they arise, or one at a time. We don't have to exclude any. Personally I'm pretty interested in better understanding the spirit complex, and this third realm beyond the physical and metaphysical. I havn't been able to keep reading on Beyond Space and Time, but Maybe I can squeeze in a bit.

Fair enough. I think I'd like to start by following biknewb's suggestion. I have some other ideas related to the spirit complex, but I'll need to re-read Larson's thoughts there as well before I can summarize it. It'll take me a few days to make another post either way.

I am very interested in hearing from other members, as well. I'm not sure if you are viewing our discussion with curiosity, agreement or dismay at our lack of understanding, but I'm pretty sure that you're out there and your feelings are not apathy (or you wouldn't keep coming back). So what are your thoughts/interests on this topic?

All comments are appreciated and accepted with Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[MisterRabbit]

http://harmonic.geometry.googlepages.com/

This is an interesting page about how reciprocal patterns can be used to build steady structures without joining the pieces, using only gravity and friction. Considering that our universe was built using a reciprocal system, I thought it relavent in a tangential sort of way.

---

http://universal-hologram.com/holographi...ffects.htm

ooo and then look at some of these pictures in relation to the theory of the first website. Vewy intewesting.

[3D Sunset]

Note: Due to its wider applicability than RST, I have also posted this on the Positive and Negative s/t and t/s thread of the Law of One Forum.
________________________________________________________

I had a fascinating dream last night, that I need to share but am concerned that it won't translate well into words, but anyway, here goes. In the dream, I saw both that all 3rd Density experience occurs in t/s, and how it occurs. I will now try to elucidate the realization.

At first, I kept seeing how events in s/t were mapping into t/s, spread out over t/s as they were occurring. Then, I saw how the motion of these t/s instances were being coalesced and mapped onto the vector of time for our 3rd Density interpretation of the events. It was the direction, or the perspective, used to accomplish the mappings from 3-D time onto vectoral time that actually created the experience of the individual in s/t.

Consider that given a set of coordinates in 3-time, one can map them into the same resulting vector in a variety of ways (refer once again to the pencil analogy). It is this ordering and direction of the "folding" of the events, the "motion", if you will, that defines the way a 3rd Density entity experiences the events.

What I then realized, was that it is the individual that defines the order and direction of the mappings, according to their unique biases and personality. This gave me a new view into how we can reprogram our consciousness to experience events differently. I also see this as a direct example of what is being accomplished in the discipline of the personality.

Later in the dream I saw that individuals can influence each others mapping process through a field that surrounds them, a personality field let's say, that acts much like a magnetic field. The degree to which the mapping is stable and consistent, defines the strength of the field. These fields can cause an effect that is either convergent or divergent between individuals in a group experiencing the same event (albeit from separate perspectives). When the effect is convergent, it leads to greater harmony within the group, and will tend to change, or bias everyone's process more toward the mean. When it is divergent, it leads to greater distortion within the group, and will tend to bias everyone's mapping process farther away from each other. This explains how one or two divergent individuals can affect the synergies of an entire group, simply by being present. It also explains how one or two strongly biased individuals can bring in those around them. Note that there is no value judgment (or polarity) associated with the "convergent" or "divergent" aspects. For example, highly charismatic individuals in the right environment are highly convergent, and bring people into their set of biases (this could be positive, like Jesus, or negative like Charles Manson). Also note that a positive individual in a generally positive environment would be convergent, whereas the same individual in a generally negative environment would be divergent. I further believe that there is a direct relationship between the mapping process and the polarity of the individual. Again, strongly polarized individuals tend to have very strong personality fields.

I believe that this order of mapping applies directly to the archetypes that Ra discusses in Book IV. I see now how Arcanum IV- the Experience of the mind, feeds this biased interpretation of an experience to Arcanum III - the Catalyst of the Mind, which evaluates its catalytic properties and delivers them to Arcanum II - the Potentiator of the Mind, who prepares Arcanum I - the Matrix of the Mind, to store the biased interpretation of the experience in the matrix of the mind. I realize now that I had been looking at the process backward, as I had previously thought that these happened in the opposite order (i.e., the matrix stored an raw event, which was evaluated for potentiation value, and then was handed to the catalyst for reaction which became the experience).

Does all this make any sense, or have I wandered off into left field?

3D Sunset

[biknewb]

It makes sense to me.
Your personality field makes me think of the morphogenetic field of Sheldrake, where the behaviour of individuals influences the group through non-physical means.

Gerard

[MisterRabbit]

Wow that is a fascinating dream. Wish I got such explicit instruction from time to time.

It is this ordering and direction of the "folding" of the events, the "motion", if you will, that defines the way a 3rd Density entity experiences the events.

I think I understand what you're saying before this, but please help with the concept of motion and folding as it relates to it.

At first, I kept seeing how events in s/t were mapping into t/s, spread out over t/s as they were occurring. Then, I saw how the motion of these t/s instances were being coalesced and mapped onto the vector of time for our 3rd Density interpretation of the events. It was the direction, or the perspective, used to accomplish the mappings from 3-D time onto vectoral time that actually created the experience of the individual in s/t.

So, what you're saying then is that...as we experience in s/t, those experiences are mapped out onto vectoral time, and it is precisely that which causes us to experience ourselves as individuals? Put another way, it sounds like what we call mind and memories are somehow our connection to t/s, and actually exist primarily in t/s? So let's say for example everything I know about myself, all my ideas of myself, are existing in t/s and since I'm connected to t/s I am aware of myself not only as an experiencing entity but also as a continuation and individual?

Is this what you're getting at or am I way off?

How are we connected to t/s, then? The pineal gland is one theory, which David Wilcock has spoken about and is very interesting. It could also be that our brainwaves themselves are connected to it.

[3D Sunset]

Wow that is a fascinating dream. Wish I got such explicit instruction from time to time.

I don't intend to make it sound overly important. In reality, the dream involved a lot of symbols as do most of my dreams. The difference recently is that during the dreams I get a "feeling" as to what the symbols mean. Upon awaking, I try to immediately verbalize what I "felt", because I've learned that if I don't, I usually lose the insight within a few minutes. At best, I'm left with a faint shadow of the understanding I had gained. All this is stuff I've trained myself to do over time, I'm sure that everyone can do it.

So, what you're saying then is that...as we experience in s/t, those experiences are mapped out onto vectoral time, and it is precisely that which causes us to experience ourselves as individuals? Put another way, it sounds like what we call mind and memories are somehow our connection to t/s, and actually exist primarily in t/s?

Close. What I saw was that as things occur, they are simultaneously "placed" in 3-space and 3-time. This is where the personality comes into play. It is our personality that performs the act of mapping the 3-time locations into linear time (see below). When I say that the experience happens in t/s, I mean that this is where the personality resides and does the mapping that so defines how we actually experience the event. As always though, everything that makes up "you" exists in both s/t and t/s simultaneously. As I see it, the mind and memories are the s/t interpretation of those amalgamated mappings that our personality did to "color" how we experienced event. I do see the "personality" though, as having its primary form in t/s.

I think I understand what you're saying before this, but please help with the concept of motion and folding as it relates to it.

Going back to the pencil exercise. We were able to see that an infinite number of points in 3-space could be mapped to a single point on a line (linear space). By analogy, this is what happens when points in 3-time are mapped into our scalar experience of linear time. What I saw ("felt") was that our personality drives the order in which we map the points.

Think of color picture which is composed of a number of colored dots that, when gathered together, form an image. You could build the dots in any order and still come up with the same image. Some may choose to fill in all the people first, some all the inanimate objects, and others the plants and animals. Still others may use novel mappings like all the color magenta, then cyan, or "always ignore my mother-in-law".

Now imagine that it is the most detailed picture you've ever seen and includes sounds, tastes, and tactile information. All of these points must be examined, ordered, and brought into the picture (or possibly excluded) by the personality.

The great insight to me though, is that where I used to think that the memory was the image and that was then evaluated for meaning and catalyst, I see now that by the time the image exists (i.e., has been mapped into s/t), all the processing has already been completed. This explains why our reactions to events and catalysts have often already occurred by the time we consciously realize what has happened.

This points to why disciplines of the personality are so vital to our progression in this density. It is only through these disciplines that we may adjust the ordering (if you will) of how we perceive and respond to events. I'm certain that this can be accomplished though meditation and training of the conscious mind.

How are we connected to t/s, then? The pineal gland is one theory, which David Wilcock has spoken about and is very interesting. It could also be that our brainwaves themselves are connected to it.

It seems to me that we are connected through a myriad of ways including our dreams and thoughts and as I said our personality. Physically this may well involve the pineal gland, but it seems to me that how we connect is less important than that we connect.

Thanks, as always, for the questions. Love and Light.

3D Sunset

[MisterRabbit]

I'm going to have to chew on that for a bit.

But in the meantime, I think that this is relavent:
http://www.umsl.edu/~fraundorfp/nanowrld/rlattice.html

Especially the part near the middle-bottom where they've apparently mapped out a linear Bach Fugue into a vector, and it even says that its made to represent 3D time.

[3D Sunset]

Please forgive my prolonged absence from this thread. I would like to try to further the discussions here, since some recent activity of other threads leads me to believe there may be further interest in the topic. I recent posted the following comments on another thread, but have copied it here so that it may reach a larger audience.

Greetings all,

I have given the topic of T/S and S/T a good amount of attention, concentration, and meditation over the past few years, and I'd like to propose a new way of looking at these stages of existence, that came to me in a daydream while I meditated early this morning.

First I would encourage everyone to peruse some earlier discussions our forum members had along these lines, in the Dewey B. Larson Thread on the Science and Technology Forum. It has not been visited much recently, but contains some interesting discussions and some added detail to what I am about to propose.

Per Larson, one needs to remember that in S/T, time is scalar, not a vector. So when we view time as a scalar, it gives the appearance of having a past, present, and future. In reality past, present and future are simply points along the scalar line of time. I think that people make a mistake assuming that they are the underlying axes of 3-Time.

Consider that in 3-space we have coordinate axes that we call x, y, and z that represent relationships and displacements in 3-space. Consider now that in 3-time there are also coordinates that I will call by the Greek letters phi, chi, and psi representing points in 3-time. Rather than assigning phi, chi and psi the relationships that we see in scalar time of past, present, and future though, I suggest that we consider them as representing relationships and experiences in consciousness. So in this model of 3-time, the axes of time represent experiences whereas in 3-space the axes represent displacements.

Let's now go a step further and assign different perspectives on the three temporal positions of phi, chi, and psi. Consider that displacement along the phi axis represents the experience between the self and other selves at any given scalar space, chi is the experience between the self and the self at that point in space, and psi is the experience between the self and the environment at the same point. The stronger the experience of the entity along any axis, the greater the resulting magnitude of its appearance on that axis.

By this definition, a strongly harmonized relationship between two entities at a given space would manifest a large magnitude along the phi axis. A strong experience with the environment, would manifest a large magnitude on the psi axis, and strong concentration or meditation would manifest as a large chi magnitude.

This may give us some insight as to how time appears malleable in s/t. Consider when you are in a traumatic event such as a car crash. Time seems to slow down as your concentration is focused on the environment. Similarly, time can speed up when you are blissful meditation.

By looking at vectoral time in this way we can see how some of the experiences of t/s that Ra describes may be possible. When a group such as Don, Carla, and Jim are joined together in an effort to help others within our 3D existence, this would manifest as large magnitudes in phi and psi dimensions. One can now visualize how entities existing in t/s could easily recognize the existence and the significance of just such a group.

This is just a primer for some thoughts along these lines that I have been formulating recently, and I will be the first to confess that they are still half-baked, but I wanted to share them here to see if the idea resonates with others. If so, I would like to explore this further in future postings, and I welcome additional thoughts to help me refine the concept.

As a final note, I also see a relationship between my chi axis and the oriental concept of chi, as well as the psi axis and our concepts of supernatural or magical occurrences.

Does this resonate with any readers? What say you?

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[biknewb]

No resonating yet.
I will think about it some more. Probably have to reread a large part of this thread ;-)

Some preliminary thoughts:
Are these three directions/coordinates the only possible ones in T/S?
Trying to imagine the actual mechanics behind this T/S concept: experience in any of the coordinates has to be able to change the "direction" of destiny.

[Lavazza]

Hey everyone!

I had a chance to print out and read this thread over the course of a few weeks at my slow poke pace. Very interesting subjects raised here... and I'm glad to have the opportunity to pop a few of my own questions in.

...Thus all physical activity, all change that occurs in the system of motions that constitutes the universe, extends from unity, not from zero.

Does this not sound like intelligent infinity? And what are deviations, than distortions away from intelligent infinity? Interestingly, this simple observation also actually resolves a paradox which has long been present, and summarily ignored in Einstein's general relativity.

Are you speaking about the so called 'twin' paradox? If so or even if not, could you please elaborate here?

I can't quite imagine yet what he really means by multiple dimensions of time, or movement in time, or how movement closer together in time means movement further apart in space. I mean I know they are reciprocal aspects, but that's just an abstract equation, I want to be able to visualize it.

This was mentioned briefly, but I wanted to chip in my own distorted and somewhat limited understanding of what time/space is like. It is pretty crude though. Basically we have one dimension of space in this reality. So you're not going to have the same freedom of movement that we enjoy now. This sounds like a limitation, but I have a feeling it isn't viewed that way once dis-incarnate. But you can move in three directions of time. I presume this is past, present, and future... Although "moving in the present" doesn't make much sense. (this whole view breaks down quite easily, may I add). Anyhow- we know that time/space is where life reviews take place, which is convenient considering the freedom of movement in time that exists there (for reviews, and planning). I gather that time/space is more of a 'mental' place, so time would be what you want to be flexible the most. Just like this world, space/time, is where we are 'physical', and want to be free in that way the most (so we can learn our lessons).

Does this mean then, that all 3D existence is in neutral space/time, and between incarnations, we move to neutral time/space? It doesn't seem correct that the area of the choice should be done in either positive or negative space/time. This too, is an area for further discussion (Note: I've started a new thread on this topic on the "Strictly Law of One" forum.)

Could you point me towards this thread? I have looked for it in vain, maybe it has a title I didn't expect. It does sound quite interesting, and probably has truth to it. The implication is that there is something 'outside' of our octave of experience, or universe. (hey, it could all be like this. )

That's it for now, unless you've come up with any more creative ways to explain what moving in time is like. I rather enjoyed your analogies.

Love and light,
Lavazza

[3D Sunset]

I had a chance to print out and read this thread over the course of a few weeks at my slow poke pace. Very interesting subjects raised here... and I'm glad to have the opportunity to pop a few of my own questions in.

Welcome, my friend. And thank you for reviving the thread.

Are you speaking about the so called 'twin' paradox? If so or even if not, could you please elaborate here?

Indeed. The problem with the twin paradox is that it states that at speeds approaching that of light, there is a preferred reference frame which is due to its velocity. This, however, is fundamentally disallowed by general relativity which indicates that there is no way of distinguishing between two reference frames due to their relative velocity. I must confess, that I have forgotten how RST resolved the paradox exactly, but it was related to the fact that our base velocity is at unity, which is the speed of light, not at zero. In general relativity, the discontinuity occurs due to a division by zero that does not occur in RST. I beg your indulgence for some time to reconstruct the discussion by Dewey, and I will post more in the future.

But you can move in three directions of time. I presume this is past, present, and future... Although "moving in the present" doesn't make much sense. (this whole view breaks down quite easily, may I add).

In some detail, in the thread referenced below, I delved into what the three dimensions of time may represent. The problem I have with past/present/future is that these really represent points of linear time flow, and hence are an artifact of our 3D s/t perceptions. What I stumbled on was a way of considering time as experience, and just as we locate objects in space using x,y,z locations, I suggested our locating objects in time using the last three letters of the Greek alphabet: chi, psi and omega (note: I originally like phi, chi and psi, but later concluded that omega was a better choice than phi). What I find most interesting about this approach is that the way we perceive time in 3D is very much a function of what/how we are focusing our attention, or said another way, on what we are experiencing. If you will indulge me for a few moments, I would love to elaborate:

Consider first how time seems to slow down when we are in a car accident (or when we witness anything significant in our lives). During these few seconds, our attention is so focused on the experience we are having, that we are able to distinguish and observe minute events (the individual glimmers of light of each tiny shard of broken glass, the moving waves of the impact rolling up the car's hood, the coffee cup, spilling its contents in a beautiful spiral as it flies across the dashboard). And those events, which take less than 3 seconds "in reality", take up the equivalent space of several minutes in our mind. I call this aspect of time chi, which conjures up the Asian body / life force balancing practice of Tai Chi. I consider chi the experience of the body as it relates to the outer world.

My next proposed dimension of experience is what I call psi. In popular culture psi is associated with extrasensory perceptions and actions. Psi would represent the experience of the body as it relates to the inner world, or the root of the mind/subconscious. I think that this aspect of experience is closely related to magic and to adeptness. By focusing our attention on this axis of experience (aka time), we are honing our psychic abilities. Through Psi space is compressed, or time elongated, to allow action at a distance and instantaneous communication. By this axis of time we are able to attach and use our societal memory complex as it is evolving into our 4D social memory complex.

Finally, we have omega. To me, omega represents the experience of the body with the infinite. In science we have the "Omega Point", and in religion we have Jesus stating he is the Alpha and the Omega, and is it a coincidence that Omega is the name of an expensive timepiece? When we meditate, time seems to accelerate and what may have been an hour becomes compressed into a few blissful minutes. Such is a taste of the infinite nature of omega, that we can experience in 3D.

Each moment of our 3D experience then, is the sum of the amount of focus we provide to the experience of our body, our mind and our spirit in that moment. In t/s one can then view any point in linear space based upon our experience of it in these three dimensions. The parallel can also easily be drawn between these axes of time (experience) and cards IV, XI and XVIII of the Major Arcana, where Chi represents the experience of the body, Psi the Experience of the Mind, and Omega the Experience of the Spirit.

There is much more that can be said about this, but I would like to see if any of it resonates with others first. If nothing else, I have found it a useful model for considering my daily experiences.

Could you point me towards this thread? I have looked for it in vain, maybe it has a title I didn't expect.

Gladly, my friend. The Thread is called "Considerations of s/t and t/s".

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

Indeed. The problem with the twin paradox is that it states that at speeds approaching that of light, there is a preferred reference frame which is due to its velocity. This, however, is fundamentally disallowed by general relativity which indicates that there is no way of distinguishing between two reference frames due to their relative velocity. I must confess, that I have forgotten how RST resolved the paradox exactly, but it was related to the fact that our base velocity is at unity, which is the speed of light, not at zero. In general relativity, the discontinuity occurs due to a division by zero that does not occur in RST. I beg your indulgence for some time to reconstruct the discussion by Dewey, and I will post more in the future.

Granted. For any following this thread, here is some more information on this paradox. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox

I'll be interested to hear what information you find.

What I find most interesting about this approach is that the way we perceive time in 3D is very much a function of what/how we are focusing our attention, or said another way, on what we are experiencing. If you will indulge me for a few moments, I would love to elaborate:

It sounds like you have invested a good deal of time/space meditation on this subject I would like to comment however that it sounds like you are still only describing linear time, albeit in three different perspectives. Although in all fairness, I think it is a fine theory, and I am none the wiser as regards visualizing the arena of time/space, and perhaps less so, than yourself. For me the explaination doesn't work because it still leaves me blurry on trying to understand the remaining single (linear) dimension of space. That is to say, I imagine the first three dimensions of time as you have stated, with the chi, psi and omega. But I can only imagine it in so far as there are three dimensions of space in which to use those dimensions upon. This of course may be due to my handicap of existing in space/time. And again, I think you're probably on to it when you wrote:

Each moment of our 3D experience then, is the sum of the amount of focus we provide to the experience of our body, our mind and our spirit in that moment. In t/s one can then view any point in linear space based upon our experience of it in these three dimensions

This must be correct as it is a fair reciprocal of our experience here (in s/t), though I can only visualize it to a certain degree and have it still make sense to me. Might I add, that I also really enjoyed your umbrella analogy. The space under the umbrella being our three dimensional space, and the linearly shaped pole in the middle for time. Then closing the umbrella with Hulk Hogan like force, so far that it somehow flipped completely inside out, creating three dimensional time under this inverted umbrella, and the upside down pole being one dimensional space.

I am quite sure that new souls who are preparing to enter first density are having just a hard of a time understanding our space/time as we are of their time/space

Gladly, my friend. The Thread is called "Considerations of s/t and t/s".

See you there soon good friend!

Lavazza

---

Some Monday morning fun.

[3D Sunset]

I'll be interested to hear what information you find.

Continue to bear with me, for in the grand scheme of things, this is fairly low on my list - but I will get to it eventually. In the mean time, relapsing back to my days teaching undergraduates while in graduate school, I might suggest this as an exercise to the reader as a good way to become acquainted with Mr. Larson's work, first hand....

It sounds like you have invested a good deal of time/space meditation on this subject I would like to comment however that it sounds like you are still only describing linear time, albeit in three different perspectives...For me the explaination doesn't work because it still leaves me blurry on trying to understand the remaining single (linear) dimension of space. That is to say, I imagine the first three dimensions of time as you have stated, with the chi, psi and omega. But I can only imagine it in so far as there are three dimensions of space in which to use those dimensions upon.

What I was visualizing was a way to view how linear time could have three axes in much the same way volumetric space does for us. Recall that foundational to RST is the concept of two independent frameworks, one of three dimensional space and another of three dimensional time. The only way that they can be associated though, is through unit-less scalar values of the opposite framework. So, in reality there are both 3-space and 3-time existing independently. They can then be related as s/t or t/s by "compressing" one three dimensional framework into a scalar. In my model, we experience linear time in s/t based upon our compressed experience of the three time dimensions.

The question, then, of what "compressed space" may look like is a different topic entirely, and one that I haven't really addressed (or deeply pondered), but let me get the juices flowing, as it were, with some thoughts off the top of my head.

Applying the time compression approach of time in s/t (wherein all available time is compressed into an instantaneous "now") to space in t/s - we would find that all available space would be compressed into an instantaneous "here". Doesn't give one much room to move about, I suppose, but it does give you a marvelous perspective on just how connected everything in our universe actually is. For in t/s, all of space is at the same point instantaneously.

Hmmm, this is an interesting concept.:idea: For one reason, until now, I had only thought of using extra dimensions to allow things "impossible" according to our current view of physics (e.g., instantaneous communication at a distance, or travel beyond light speed). But with this approach, we can see that actually by compressing, or removing dimensions, we remove some of those physical barriers. Consider a sheet of paper with two points on it. They may be separated by vast distances, but if the paper is "folded" in a third dimension, then we can bring them together. The process of projecting three space into scalar space acts similarly to that of folding the paper in an extra dimension - with the added benefit that by projecting the dimensions down to a point we always bring them together:exclamation:

I'm not sure if this is useful, or if something else may come of it. I will ponder it some more and let you know what I think. It may well, as Ra so aptly put it once: "Make little of sense".

More to come, and thanks again for your interest.

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

Applying the time compression approach of time in s/t (wherein all available time is compressed into an instantaneous "now") to space in t/s - we would find that all available space would be compressed into an instantaneous "here". Doesn't give one much room to move about, I suppose, but it does give you a marvelous perspective on just how connected everything in our universe actually is. For in t/s, all of space is at the same point instantaneously.

Hmmm, this is an interesting concept.:idea: For one reason, until now, I had only thought of using extra dimensions to allow things "impossible" according to our current view of physics (e.g., instantaneous communication at a distance, or travel beyond light speed). But with this approach, we can see that actually by compressing, or removing dimensions, we remove some of those physical barriers. Consider a sheet of paper with two points on it. They may be separated by vast distances, but if the paper is "folded" in a third dimension, then we can bring them together. The process of projecting three space into scalar space acts similarly to that of folding the paper in an extra dimension - with the added benefit that by projecting the dimensions down to a point we always bring them together:exclamation:3D Sunset

I'm with you here! Interestingly, there was a point in our space/time history where every place was "here". And that point would be just before the big bang! I would further speculate that at that same point, all of time (in t/s) was also one instantaneous "now". Since we've mused that the big bang is representative of the beginning of the octave, it would follow that space/time and time/space were both created with the big bang.

What you said about action at a distance also resonates. I follow of the work of parapsychologist Dean Radin, and in one of his interviews he spoke about how in quantum mechanics particles can become entangled and exhibit this behavior, but only if they interact. Then he mentioned that of course everything must be entangled, since at one point every atom in the universe was touching one another right before the big bang.

I'm going off on another branch of thinking now, but I wonder also since we know that space itself is expanding with cosmic inflation, that in time/space time is somehow expanding, and not in the way we would normally think of the progression of time linearly. Lots of food for thought, eh? Time for lunch I think.

L&L, ~L

[3D Sunset]

I'm going off on another branch of thinking now, but I wonder also since we know that space itself is expanding with cosmic inflation, that in time/space time is somehow expanding, and not in the way we would normally think of the progression of time linearly.

Yes, as I understand it, 3-time (in t/s) has to be expanding, just like 3-space is (in s/t). Recall though, that time is linear only in s/t, and that space is linear in t/s. It is hard to imagine how scalars can expand in different frameworks, but they are! Thinking of it another way, it is only through the expansion of 3-time, that we are able to experience linear movement of scalar time in s/t.

Remember that, per RST, the universe is expanding in discrete increments (one unit of scalar space per unit of scalar time). These quanta represent the smallest pure movements allowed in time or space. Note that this also inherently limits how close together two objects can get, simply by moving in space. In order for objects to become closer than the space quanta, they must actually move farther apart in time.

This interaction between t/s and s/t is a significant point throughout RST, the total significance of which I'm sure I haven't fully appreciated.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset