Do we complete the octave together?

[Henosis]

Within our sub-Logos, do seventh density entities and our friends dwelling in time/space "delay" their journey into the octave density until all entities have been liberated? I realize the concept of time breaks down around the sixth and seventh densities, but do the most evolved entities await the return of all their brothers and sisters before completely dissolving into unity, or is this more of an "individual" dissolution?

Completing the journey together is quite a majestic thought... but it seems like an entity can freely choose to dissolve into unity if it so desires.

Is this a possibility? Does Ra mention anything to imply this is indeed not the case?

[AnthroHeart]

The concept of other selves also breaks down. So only one approaches Creator.

[Henosis]

The concept of other selves also breaks down. So only one approaches Creator.

This is true...but can one merge with the Creator/Logos while there are still others (selves) suffering in the "body" of the Creator/Logos?

[sjel]

In the Tibetan Book of the Dead I remember there was a mantra something like, "I resolve to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all sentient beings, I resolve to stay in the world until all the sentient worlds and hells are emptied of suffering beings."

[Night Owl]

The way I conceptualize that is that each frame of time represent a moment of harvest. The 7D group in which you harvest represent all the souls ready to harvest at the same time as you, and maybe, they are the same which started the octave with you, maybe not, I suspect it depends on veil configurations, whether they get lost or not, repeat cycles or not. As the experience becomes timeless and identity breaks down, group souls would merge into the harvesting frames of 7D. All the souls present in the present moment of this 3D experience are linked by space/time in some kind of group. The group that experiences the same frame at the same time, united by a common mirror of experience. Each frame is harvested, which is why the present moment happen, it is happening, it is accepted, it is engraved, it is part of the source, it is ever harvesting. What allows us to experience the present frame together is that those who have been tied to this experience by their past harvest in 7D harvest as the logos simultaneously. In the end the frames are just experiences of the logos seperated by the perception of time and space of itself. At least that's an interesting way I have looked at it. It may not be that at all, but I think it holds together quite logically.

[Aion]

We already have completed the octave together, we are just catching up to ourselves, because all things are simultaneous. The entirety of infinity has been explored and known by the One, we are merely walking in its ghostly after-image.

[Stranger]

We already have completed the octave together, we are just catching up to ourselves, because all things are simultaneous. The entirety of infinity has been explored and known by the One, we are merely walking in its ghostly after-image.

Aion, this is no ghostly after-image.  This moment is being created as we are living it right now.  It's just that all the other moments are also simultaneous with it, like frames in a film, but Creation is created through moments just like this one.  

There is no "has been explored" - only "is being explored", the eternal present.

[Aion]

We already have completed the octave together, we are just catching up to ourselves, because all things are simultaneous. The entirety of infinity has been explored and known by the One, we are merely walking in its ghostly after-image.

Aion, this is no ghostly after-image.  This moment is being created as we are living it right now.  It's just that all the other moments are also simultaneous with it, like frames in a film, but Creation is created through moments just like this one.  

There is no "has been explored" - only "is being explored", the eternal present.

That is the typical.view, yes, but alas it is still not what I feel is the case. The Creator is outside of time and space, beyond past, future AND present. It is whole and complete, unified. It is only an active experience of 'being explored' from within the context of space and time, but I strongly feel that this octave is already completed. The reason for this is the fact that the next octave already exists, Ra's teachers even came from there. So if the next octave is already engaged then why would I presume this one 'isn't finished'? It is only to the perspective of ourselves as individuation of the Creator but I have no doubt that entering the timelessness of Seventh Density that the whole octave is comprehended as a unified whole.

[Diana]

The Creator is outside of time and space, beyond past, future AND present. It is whole and complete, unified. It is only an active experience of 'being explored' from within the context of space and time, but I strongly feel that this octave is already completed. The reason for this is the fact that the next octave already exists, Ra's teachers even came from there. So if the next octave is already engaged then why would I presume this one 'isn't finished'?

Because all things are evolving, even the so-called Creator. How could it not be? It would mean everything is finite if it was already set in stone. And as each particle or part experiences and evolves so must everything. So it is more like an evolving, dynamic soup. At least, that's my working theory. Even a "unified whole" can change, evolve, grow in content. Frankly I think that is an explanation in 3D why the universe appears to be expanding.

So outside the construct of linear time, where everything is simultaneous, change, flux, expansion and growth would all happen simultaneously with multidimensional connections and synergy, with the sum of the parts being greater than the whole which in turn evolves. Exponential growth and expansion on a level difficult to fathom when immersed in linear time. It's much too linear for me to think there is a line from Creator to self, then a line back to Creator (or whatever the source is).

So because of choices made now, the whole changes. One's path evolves. So to say this density or octave is finished is to disregard possibilities which are infinite. I don't mean to be obtuse here, or vague. I am trying to get across the idea that we are creating everything in the moment, which concept has a lot of validity on many levels, and therefore to say something is finished is perhaps an inaccurate word.

[Henosis]

I don't necessarily agree with Aion, but one of the things Ra does mention which makes me second think a couple things is that entities from the next Logos come to assist ours in its completion.

To me this somewhat implies that the Logos is not quite an entity of free will....if it was an entity of complete free will, how would the next Logos already be known?

However, if Ra is implying entities from the Octave density serve as light bringers, for me this would make far more sense than entities from the next Logos assisting ours.

Anyway, I try not to overthink it too much!

[Night Owl]

My understanding is that the creation at the source level is finite. The source level is the level where everything that existed, exist and will exist is existing alltogether in a fixed state. But there are no experiences at the source level and so the logos take on themselves to create seperation by their freewill so that part of the creator may experience itself through space and time in an in-infinite perspective. This way we never experience completion or repetition because we are seperated from the all. But the all in itself as it contains everything is a finite infinite. Really it's not so much conceivable by a human mind.

[Stranger]

The Creator is outside of time and space, beyond past, future AND present. It is whole and complete, unified. It is only an active experience of 'being explored' from within the context of space and time, but I strongly feel that this octave is already completed. The reason for this is the fact that the next octave already exists, Ra's teachers even came from there. So if the next octave is already engaged then why would I presume this one 'isn't finished'?

Because all things are evolving, even the so-called Creator. How could it not be? It would mean everything is finite if it was already set in stone. And as each particle or part experiences and evolves so must everything. So it is more like an evolving, dynamic soup. At least, that's my working theory. Even a "unified whole" can change, evolve, grow in content. Frankly I think that is an explanation in 3D why the universe appears to be expanding.

So outside the construct of linear time, where everything is simultaneous, change, flux, expansion and growth would all happen simultaneously with multidimensional connections and synergy, with the sum of the parts being greater than the whole which in turn evolves. Exponential growth and expansion on a level difficult to fathom when immersed in linear time. It's much too linear for me to think there is a line from Creator to self, then a line back to Creator (or whatever the source is).

So because of choices made now, the whole changes. One's path evolves. So to say this density or octave is finished is to disregard possibilities which are infinite. I don't mean to be obtuse here, or vague. I am trying to get across the idea that we are creating everything in the moment, which concept has a lot of validity on many levels, and therefore to say something is finished is perhaps an inaccurate word.

I think the problem with understanding "the eternal present" has to do with our cognitive limitations - we are creatures of time and space, cause and effect.  All of which are creations of a Creator who is not bound by these limits.  

We make the mistake of thinking, "if the future already exists, then we must be in the past."  That logic breaks down outside of illusion.

The Creator is not limited by time; doesn't have to do this thing first, and that thing second.  All of it happens at once, like the opening of a flower bud, or like all points in space simultaneously expanding outward as the Universe expands.  

To our time-bound mind this is definitely a paradox.  The best metaphor I can come up with: think of a computer running a simulation of a world, computing it frame by frame.  Then speed it up until it can do it super fast.  Then, speed it up some more, and some more, until a conceptual threshold is crossed, and suddenly the computer can calculate all frames instantaneously, all at once.

The simulation will STILL consist of those frames.  They are not rehashes of the past.  They are the very stuff of the simulated reality.  Until the computer has processed any given frame, it did not exist.  Similarly, until I just typed this sentence that you are reading, it did not exist.  I created it and added it to the Universe - from the Creator's view, simultaneously with all the other sentences I will ever write or have ever written.

[Stranger]

The Creator is One Consciousness; that one Consciousness has invented all the forms you see around you.  In themselves, they are not alive; they are thoughts, shapes, collections of attributes combined together, defining the object/creature's ways of existing and interacting with other shapes.

Here's the miracle: the One Consciousness is capable of becoming all of these shapes *simultaneously*.  The Creator's consciousness thinks: if I were this particular type of fish in this particular spot in a lake at this particular time, what would I be thinking, feeling and doing?  And plays it out.  This SINGLE Infinite Mind can imagine itself experiencing reality through every single one of the shapes it has thought of, simultaneously, in the entire Universe.  (The "reality" it's experiencing is, of course, itself, as projected through all the other shapes that, say, the fish encounters and interacts with).

It's not a big stretch to understand that this Creator is capable of experiencing all "times" simultaneously and imbuing them with its Being simultaneously, also.

In fact, if we truly grasp the meaning of there being only one, indivisible, Creator, whose essence is Being, that does not leave any room for shadows, or past or future. If we're here experiencing Creation, that means that God is here, creating it through us, right now. There can be nothing else.

[Night Owl]

The nature of duality is so that the creator is simultaneously in a state of completion and lack of completion. Just like the ying yang. The source is the level of creation where duality is unified as a whole and so it is not moving. As soon as it experiences the fractal of duality it begins to experience. The logos exploit the reflection in the middle of the sides of duality to experience awareness or some kind of feedback from it's own beingness. From there, it is only a hierarchy of fractals.

From a pure mathematical standpoint we coud think of the source as 0. It is the fixed state where it is not moving. It is almost nothing. However it is not nothing because there is one 0. Therefore the 0 is 1. But then if there is 0 and there is 1....there is 2. But the 2 is one. If there is 2 and there is 1...then there is 3. Distortions of awareness build up on top of one another like this. At least this is how I like to think about it from my very limited point of view.

[AnthroHeart]

The nature of duality is so that the creator is simultaneously in a state of completion and lack of completion. Just like the ying yang. The source is the level of creation where duality is unified as a whole and so it is not moving. As soon as it experiences the fractal of duality it begins to experience. The logos exploit the reflection in the middle of the sides of duality to experience awareness or some kind of feedback from it's own beingness. From there, it is only a hierarchy of fractals.

From a pure mathematical standpoint we coud think of the source as 0. It is the fixed state where it is not moving. It is almost nothing. However it is not nothing because there is one 0. Therefore the 0 is 1. But then if there is 0 and there is 1....there is 2. But the 2 is one. If there is 2 and there is 1...then there is 3. Distortions of awareness build up on top of one another like this. At least this is how I like to think about it from my very limited point of view.

I've said in the past that the Law of Free Will is the reason that a 0 is not a 1. The reason they are not the same thing.

[Glow]

The Creator is outside of time and space, beyond past, future AND present. It is whole and complete, unified. It is only an active experience of 'being explored' from within the context of space and time, but I strongly feel that this octave is already completed. The reason for this is the fact that the next octave already exists, Ra's teachers even came from there. So if the next octave is already engaged then why would I presume this one 'isn't finished'?

Because all things are evolving, even the so-called Creator. How could it not be? It would mean everything is finite if it was already set in stone. And as each particle or part experiences and evolves so must everything. So it is more like an evolving, dynamic soup. At least, that's my working theory. Even a "unified whole" can change, evolve, grow in content. Frankly I think that is an explanation in 3D why the universe appears to be expanding.

So outside the construct of linear time, where everything is simultaneous, change, flux, expansion and growth would all happen simultaneously with multidimensional connections and synergy, with the sum of the parts being greater than the whole which in turn evolves. Exponential growth and expansion on a level difficult to fathom when immersed in linear time. It's much too linear for me to think there is a line from Creator to self, then a line back to Creator (or whatever the source is).

So because of choices made now, the whole changes. One's path evolves. So to say this density or octave is finished is to disregard possibilities which are infinite. I don't mean to be obtuse here, or vague. I am trying to get across the idea that we are creating everything in the moment, which concept has a lot of validity on many levels, and therefore to say something is finished is perhaps an inaccurate word.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. It can be already known/travelled, yet we can come back through "time" to tweak things or simply to reexperience them. The tweaks though come from the perspective of having evolved and seeing things from a more expanded perspective. That's just the understanding I'm getting so not saying anyone else is wrong, I just don't think it has to be one or the other necissarily.

[Glow]

The Creator is outside of time and space, beyond past, future AND present. It is whole and complete, unified. It is only an active experience of 'being explored' from within the context of space and time, but I strongly feel that this octave is already completed. The reason for this is the fact that the next octave already exists, Ra's teachers even came from there. So if the next octave is already engaged then why would I presume this one 'isn't finished'?

Because all things are evolving, even the so-called Creator. How could it not be? It would mean everything is finite if it was already set in stone. And as each particle or part experiences and evolves so must everything. So it is more like an evolving, dynamic soup. At least, that's my working theory. Even a "unified whole" can change, evolve, grow in content. Frankly I think that is an explanation in 3D why the universe appears to be expanding.

So outside the construct of linear time, where everything is simultaneous, change, flux, expansion and growth would all happen simultaneously with multidimensional connections and synergy, with the sum of the parts being greater than the whole which in turn evolves. Exponential growth and expansion on a level difficult to fathom when immersed in linear time. It's much too linear for me to think there is a line from Creator to self, then a line back to Creator (or whatever the source is).

So because of choices made now, the whole changes. One's path evolves. So to say this density or octave is finished is to disregard possibilities which are infinite. I don't mean to be obtuse here, or vague. I am trying to get across the idea that we are creating everything in the moment, which concept has a lot of validity on many levels, and therefore to say something is finished is perhaps an inaccurate word.

I think the problem with understanding "the eternal present" has to do with our cognitive limitations - we are creatures of time and space, cause and effect.  All of which are creations of a Creator who is not bound by these limits.  

We make the mistake of thinking, "if the future already exists, then we must be in the past."  That logic breaks down outside of illusion.

The Creator is not limited by time; doesn't have to do this thing first, and that thing second.  All of it happens at once, like the opening of a flower bud, or like all points in space simultaneously expanding outward as the Universe expands.  

To our time-bound mind this is definitely a paradox.  The best metaphor I can come up with: think of a computer running a simulation of a world, computing it frame by frame.  Then speed it up until it can do it super fast.  Then, speed it up some more, and some more, until a conceptual threshold is crossed, and suddenly the computer can calculate all frames instantaneously, all at once.

The simulation will STILL consist of those frames.  They are not rehashes of the past.  They are the very stuff of the simulated reality.  Until the computer has processed any given frame, it did not exist.  Similarly, until I just typed this sentence that you are reading, it did not exist.  I created it and added it to the Universe - from the Creator's view, simultaneously with all the other sentences I will ever write or have ever written.

I sort of agree with this.. One thing I've been led to do by higher guidance is through deep meditation and visualization change some of my overt habits that have been shown to occur in a few lives and have created a pattern that continued in this one.

I've "gone back" and done things different which has released the strength of the pattern I'm experiencing going forward in this life.

It to me showed me how we in the present can effect a different present, that is already written and lived but can be changed through a higher perspective.

I'm not sure that makes sense as I wrote it..... time is hard to word

[Glow]

The nature of duality is so that the creator is simultaneously in a state of completion and lack of completion. Just like the ying yang. The source is the level of creation where duality is unified as a whole and so it is not moving. As soon as it experiences the fractal of duality it begins to experience. The logos exploit the reflection in the middle of the sides of duality to experience awareness or some kind of feedback from it's own beingness. From there, it is only a hierarchy of fractals.

Wow love it!!

[Aion]

I view the experience within Creation as the Creator walking through its infinite mind which is composed of infinite memory. I do not think the moment is 'created' at all, only experienced for it already exists as part of Infinity. No, I do not think the Creator evolves because there is nothing for Infinity to evolve in to, plus there can be no change in Infinity for if there is change it gains a condition of change and that is a limitation. Indeed, the perfect absolute reality of unity is unchanging, it is only the experience as the Creator 'looks through' its own content that appears to change.

It is said that the Creator will know itself. The Creator does not 'create' itself. It experiences itself. It is the experience of itself which appears to feature evolution. Even Ra says that the Creator does not actually create.

[Infinite Unity]

I agree with Aion, Evolution is apart of movement or transmutation. It is not a neccesary change for physical, but rather to undistort. Nothing is changing but which mask, scene, or which piece of the contortionists your viewing.  Each evolution is only a different viewpoint or seat to view the show. I do not agree with accepted view of infinity being everything, but rather the creators mind, and the nature of its mind is infinite. The connector making refererence is the original thought. Love is found within memory.

[anagogy]

Within our sub-Logos, do seventh density entities and our friends dwelling in time/space "delay" their journey into the octave density until all entities have been liberated? I realize the concept of time breaks down around the sixth and seventh densities, but do the most evolved entities await the return of all their brothers and sisters before completely dissolving into unity, or is this more of an "individual" dissolution?

Completing the journey together is quite a majestic thought... but it seems like an entity can freely choose to dissolve into unity if it so desires.

Is this a possibility? Does Ra mention anything to imply this is indeed not the case?

I don't think they really have a choice. That last threshold of illusory 'other self' can only be crossed by absorbing all other portions of the illusory social memory complex in its seemingly disintegrated format. But as you said, time breaks down at that level. Oneness is not oneness unless all is seen, consciously, as one. The ocean is not all liquid till all the ice cubes melt. But it is simply a matter of time. All egos are just like those ice-cubes, eventually they melt (it doesn't even require effort -- they are mortal just like the physical bodily complex albeit longer lasting -- they are subject to the entropy of decay). At which point, the great central sun forms again awaiting potentiation by free will (the octave density).

[Verum Occultum]

You are existing at all levels simultaneously.

(70.9)

After the seventh has been well entered the mind/body/spirit complex becomes so totally a mind/body/spirit complex totality that it begins to gather spiritual mass and approach the octave density. Thus the looking backwards is finished at that point.

(36.8)

If you connect these quotes together, then the idea arises that we are currently looking backwards. We are "remembering" our true existence. This is memory. Infinity is not memory, but is totally present. We are in 3D, but 3D is "contained" within infinity, within the octave density. It is just that our present space/time (or time/space) concentration is not located in the octave density. Other portions of ourselves inhabit it already. This is because 3D and I assume other densities as well, are... infinite projections of thought forms (projected ad infinitum). Things are actually eternal. No moment vanishes. When we get to octave density, other portions of ourselves are still exploring 3D, eternally. Then they get to 7D, etc. etc. And because there are an infinite amount of portions of ourselves exploring 3D, this is why the m/b/s totality complex is a "nebulous collection of all that may occur held in understanding" (infinite probable selves & parallel realities). But gaining gigantic spiritual mass means that you are finished looking backwards. It is the ultimate overview where there is "no one individual". We would be simply looking at the same thing (Creation) from a different vantage point.

In my opinion, you are realizing your seventh-density self infinitely, so that all of the probable selves lead to the same "conclusion" (this is why it is called m/b/s totality complex). When Logoi get to the octave density, they do not have to "wait" for anyone because they are simply entering "reality" and leaving illusion behind. All things are present.

To the limits of our knowledge, which are narrow, the ways of the octave are without time; that is, there are seven densities in each creation infinitely.

78.15

Have you ever considered that all of the densities are illusions, but infinity is reality?

[Aion]

Had been looking for this quote before:

13.16 Questioner: Could you tell me about this first density of planetary entities?

Ra: I am Ra. Each step recapitulates intelligent infinity in its discovery of awareness. In a planetary environment all begins in what you would call chaos, energy undirected and random in its infinity. Slowly, in your terms of understanding, there forms a focus of self-awareness. Thus the Logos moves. Light comes to form the darkness, according to the co-Creator’s patterns and vibratory rhythms, so constructing a certain type of experience. This begins with first density which is the density of consciousness, the mineral and water life upon the planet learning from fire and wind the awareness of being. This is the first density.

Since the octave is already 'complete' since there are entities which have completed this octave and moved on to the next one that is why it makes sense to me that at the point of rejoining the Creator which is beyond time we will all discover that 'everyone is there' whenever we reach there. I believe the 'Guardians' of the next Octave are ourselves whom have already completed this octave.