What is the value of faith?

[Tenet Nosce]

1. Faith allows us to rest in the awareness that "All Is Well".

Faith and an open heart, right?

Not sure. I imagine that those of the negative persuasion are able to employ faith in order to access intelligent infinity despite a certain closed-ness of the heart.

2. Intention draws this awareness inward and connects to Intelligent Infinity.

I understood it as an intention which is "honed" through the desire to the will, which then opens the gateway.

Interesting! Those were just my first impressions. With that particular statement, I was thinking there must be some intention on the part of the seeker to acknowledge the connection to the divine.

3. Desire brought about by bearing witness to suffering allows Intelligent Infinity to take on a particular energetic form. This is the "upreaching".

Where did you read about suffering, or of intelligent infinity to take a particular energetic form?

I didn't. Actually I hemmed and hawed a bit over what to put there. The general idea gets back to the witnessing- it often takes actual physical catalyst in order to stimulate our desire to end suffering.

For example- consider how many animals get injured by moving vehicles on a daily basis. Now I won't speak for others, but this isn't something that I generally "lose any sleep" over. However, were I to directly witness such an animal suffering along the side of the road, I would feel an impulse or desire to alleviate that suffering.

Under "normal" circumstances, I can see myself relying upon my own skills and knowledge to alleviate the suffering. However- given the context of faith- I can also see the possibility to move in a different direction. In other words, I could simply "offer up" the suffering to the Creator, which creates an equal and opposite impulse to bring balance to the situation. Thus what was previously formless (spirit) is granted the ability to take form through the agency of consciousness. The responsive manifestation of intelligent infinity may, or may not, have anything to do with any actions taken by my body. It really has nothing to do with "me" as I would generally perceive myself under ordinary circumstances. It has to do with a function which I may be called upon to fulfill.

The "upreaching", as I've understood it, is the energy of the intelligent infinity that is "ceaselessly and infinitely" moves through our physical and energy mind/body complexes (which I called "everpresent" in my post). The open heart is the key to further "upreaching".

Yes, I can see what you are saying. I am basing the view I offered on a particular type of experience. What I had in mind was that sort of sick, anxious feeling I experience in my abdomen when I view suffering which could be my own suffering, or that of an other self. I experience this particular energy which arises from the witnessing of suffering as has having a sort of tendency to move upwards in the mind/body/spirit complex. I can actually feel it moving upwards- so this is what I was referring to as the "upreaching".

4. Will allows this energetic form to be expressed through our mind/body/spirit complex. This is the "downpouring".

Will activates the process of intention reaching the indigo ray center, if that is our deep desire, right? That is when the gateway to the intelligent infinity is opened.

I am not sure. It seemed to me like they were saying that intelligent infinity can work through any of the rays alone, or in combination. But I am having a hard time imagining that indigo wouldn't be involved to some degree.

By energetic form did you mean "the Infinite, personified and shaped into specificity by the nature of the will and desire of the seeker" energy?

Yes.

5. Faith allows us to return to the resting state.

The locus wherein that energy rests after being called through the gateway is quite dependent upon the nature of the desire that has been shaped into a very active willing.

Is that the resting place that you've meant?

Yes.

[Ankh]

Faith and an open heart, right?

Not sure. I imagine that those of the negative persuasion are able to employ faith in order to access intelligent infinity despite a certain closed-ness of the heart.

Good point! Didn't consider those of negative polarity.

I understood it as an intention which is "honed" through the desire to the will, which then opens the gateway.

Interesting! Those were just my first impressions. With that particular statement, I was thinking there must be some intention on the part of the seeker to acknowledge the connection to the divine.

You mean faith?

The "upreaching", as I've understood it, is the energy of the intelligent infinity that is "ceaselessly and infinitely" moves through our physical and energy mind/body complexes (which I called "everpresent" in my post). The open heart is the key to further "upreaching".

Yes, I can see what you are saying. I am basing the view I offered on a particular type of experience. What I had in mind was that sort of sick, anxious feeling I experience in my abdomen when I view suffering which could be my own suffering, or that of an other self. I experience this particular energy which arises from the witnessing of suffering as has having a sort of tendency to move upwards in the mind/body/spirit complex. I can actually feel it moving upwards- so this is what I was referring to as the "upreaching".

I think that I understand what you are saying here, and based on that "I think"-understanding, I wonder if not that energy that I called "everpresent" is that energy that would climb up with ease, was it not for the blockages in our "receptors" of this energy, i.e. energy centers. So this awaits catalysts in order for our physical and energy bodies to open up our centers. Like in an analogy of the flower which is reaching up, to the sun, we also have this desire to reach up, but in potential. When we discover this desire, it becomes a conscious intention, which is then "honed" through the desire to will. But before that one must of course reach the key, which is working through the first three centers, in order to open up the heart center.

Will activates the process of intention reaching the indigo ray center, if that is our deep desire, right? That is when the gateway to the intelligent infinity is opened.

I am not sure. It seemed to me like they were saying that intelligent infinity can work through any of the rays alone, or in combination. But I am having a hard time imagining that indigo wouldn't be involved to some degree.

Oh, you mean like when the gateway has already been opened? When the upspiraling energy meets the downpouring energy, and then takes its rest in either green, blue or indigo center?

I am of an understanding that the intelligent infinity is always present in the heart, if that would be open. But then, it takes more to it, to open the gateway, and depending upon entity's desire and will, it can find its rest in other nexi as well, but those of the above location. I am speaking of positive entities here, since the negative ones open this gateway using combination of the centers below the heart, which are orange and yellow ray, so it must be different for them.

The locus wherein that energy rests after being called through the gateway is quite dependent upon the nature of the desire that has been shaped into a very active willing.

Is that the resting place that you've meant?

Yes.

I thought that it was desire and will of the entity that was decisive where the resting place for that energy would be? Based of the Q'uo quote above and below...

In the case of a healer, the resting locus of that inspiration from above would be the green-ray chakra. /.../ If the desire is for communication, then the energy through the gateway shall meet and mate with the upward spiraling love/light of the infinite One in the blue-ray chakra. /.../ When a seeker desires to move into a higher state of being which refrains from or has no use for action but rather wishes to rest in radiance of being, the energy through the gateway shall meet the personal energy of the seeker in the indigo-ray chakra and remain there, resting in that chakra whose very essence is faith.

[AnthroHeart]

I wonder if my energy is resting in indigo, because I feel a constant pressure in my 3rd eye.

[Lavazza]

The faith spoken of is the commitment to acquiring the understanding which will cause one to become an 'entity which seeks past the boundary'. Entities that do not strive to reach this understanding do not cross because they have not achieved the desire to see to the Other Side, having not reached an understanding that there even is an Other Side.

This is the value of faith!

I do not understand. If faith is equal with polarization then I do understand- however surely there are many entities who do not have faith who are also positively or negatively harvestable.

[Tenet Nosce]

You mean faith?

I'm not sure. It seems easier for me to accept that I am connected to the divine than to accept that "All Is Well". Though it would seem one would lead to the other. Perhaps it is just a matter of degree of faith.

Oh, you mean like when the gateway has already been opened? When the upspiraling energy meets the downpouring energy, and then takes its rest in either green, blue or indigo center?

Yes, that is what I was referring to.

[Aureus]

Isn't faith all we have?

When we go to bed we expect to wake up again, but there is no absolute reason why we should. We expect electrons to continue spinning around the nucleus of atoms, yet we can only refer to past experience to predict the future.

To have anything BUT faith is to fool oneself in my opinion. To rely on the past to tell the future can be quite fruitful, but considering how little we know about Creation it's incredibly naïve imo.

It's quite ironic how the most 'rational' non-believers have the most faith, at least when I think about it :p

Then again my definition of faith might differ from yours etc, so if you don't agree just let it slip

[Plenum]

to me, Faith is a quality that one must cultivate in 3rd Density. It is a corollary of the Veil; because we CANNOT know what is in the mind of another, we must at some point develop trust and faith that others are the Creator, and that we are here as part of a group experience. The value of Faith is that it enables us to move more freely in this 3d game, without constantly watching our backs or second guessing. Ra says it poetically here:

- -

50.7 Ra: I am Ra. Let us give the example of the man who sees all the poker hands. He then knows the game. It is but child’s play to gamble, for it is no risk. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known and the hand will be played correctly but with no interest.

In time/space and in the true color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction.

Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin—and we stress begin—to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.

You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love, can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit being-ness totality.

- -

go in the Light, walk with Love

[Lavazza]

I love that quote.

[Diana]

Perhaps this is so for you, but for me it's definitely not "a hope that what I believe will come to pass". For me, hope is nothing but another attachment. Also, "what will come to pass" exists in a necessarily make-believe future. Combine those things and you have yet more transient desire, because that desire is the only thing that can sustain hope.

For me, one description of faith would be something like a recognition of current participation in a universal, infinite connection and continuity. This is not one's particular desires or expectations as 'hope' might engender.

I see hope as attachment also. Hope, worry, are both attached to a projected future. To be fully present is to access the field of infinite potential. Once one is present and accessing the field of infinite potential, all is possible; and then the use of will or desire can direct it. Having faith it is there is not the same as accessing it. And what is that faith: guessing/hoping, unless one has a knowingness or experience or memory of it; and then it does not fit the definition of faith.

Anyone who is creative can attest to the accessing of the field of infinite potential. When one is painting or writing, there are times when one becomes fully present and then the "magic" happens. Time disappears and things seem to just happen. This does not require faith, it requires being fully present.

I also agree with TN that faith is a loaded word. When looked at through the institutions that promote it--religious institutions--it is the opposite of what it implies. Faith becomes imprisonment. (You must have faith, believe, this particular thing or you are screwed eternally.) So faith, for me, because of centuries of focus from religions, has negative connotations and carries an energy of "blindly follow."

If we are multidimensional beings, who exist outside of time, then faith again does not apply to us. We don't need faith, we simply need to expand until we access those parts that exist more fully and actively in intelligent infinity. Or put another way, we "remember" intelligent infinity.

One more note on faith: If "all is well as is" is reached by knowingness, then that energy would be very different than "all is well as is" reached by faith. Knowingness comes from within the self; faith is putting it outside of one's self, as though there is some universal law, or God, or other separate thing that you can trust.

[zenmaster]

If we are multidimensional beings, who exist outside of time, then faith again does not apply to us.

'Faith' exists outside of time.

[native]

I see faith and will as virtually synonymous, and that which lies at the center of the creative principle. If we didn't believe or think anything was possible, we would never make attempts at doing/creating anything. Faith/will is simply movement with a knowing or a belief. It is the actualization of the spirit.

We throw around the idea that we are creators, yet we don't seem to emphasize the potential that exists behind that idea. If there is something you would like to see happen, it is entirely possible to create it with enough will. That requires hard work and dedication, not just living in the fantasy of the mind. When Ra refers to the body in the tarot, they're speaking of it as an instrument for creation. The spirit uses the body to move around and carry out its workings.

"However, it would be more appropriate to draw the attention to the fact that although the chariot is wheeled, it is not harnessed to that which draws it by a physical or visible harness. What then, O Student, links and harnesses the chariot’s power of movement to the chariot?"

In the above, Ra is speaking of using our hands (body) to harness and direct our will. Creators create, and a strong sense of faith and dedication is required to manifest desire.

"O student, you have grasped the barest essence of the nature of the Significator’s complete envelopment within the rectangle. Consider for the self, O student, whether your thoughts can walk. The abilities of the most finely honed mentality shall not be known without the use of the physical vehicle which you call the body. Through the mouth the mind may speak. Through the limbs the mind may affect action."

[zenmaster]

Icaro, you've had an experiences with intelligent infinity. That's 'faith'. Regardless of its application with 'the creative principle' (which nothing is separate from). It happens regardless of will.

[native]

I'd agree with the first part. The creative principle is not separate from anything, yes, but I'd say that active participation with it to move towards that which is true (faith), can involve the use of the will if one is present enough and knowledgeable of their function as a co-creator. If faith involves illumination, it could be symbolized like some sort of attractor..the call upwards. It seems to represent the spirit, and its function is not to simply attract but to manifest itself. If reality unfolds according to faith as you say, then participation with it must involve some sort of will. But this will is not just 'mine' or 'yours', it emanates from faith. There is a connecting link.

The spirit manifests itself through the body, and the body regulates this activity which is will. The task seems to be to align oneself with these principles so it flows through you.

"That is the work of wind and fire. The spiritual body energy field is a pathway, or channel. When body and mind are receptive and open, then the spirit can become a functioning shuttle or communicator from the entity’s individual energy of will upwards, and from the streamings of the creative fire and wind downwards."

[Diana]

I think we may be experiencing a conflict of semantics. Here is the Webster's definition of faith:

Definition of FAITH
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty
b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

I am having trouble following this thread as there does not seem to be a consensus on what FAITH is. Would anybody like to give it another go? I was basing my comments on the accepted definition of faith that we are all privy to in the dictionaries[/quote].

[zenmaster]

Ra's definition is more like 2b(2).

---

If reality unfolds according to faith as you say, then participation with it must involve some sort of will. But this will is not just 'mine' or 'yours', it emanates from faith. There is a connecting link.

I agree they are linked. I meant to say if you consider the experience of faith, and how faith may affect decisions, you are not necessarily involved in willing. I think the more 'effective' or comprehensive use of will must have a commensurate degree of faith. They are both principles.

[Plenum]

I am having trouble following this thread as there does not seem to be a consensus on what FAITH is. Would anybody like to give it another go? I was basing my comments on the accepted definition of faith that we are all privy to in the dictionaries.

yeah, it seems as though half the disagreements in these threads stem from individuals using non-compatible definitions of words.

another biggie would be 'love'.

[kycahi]

Before the Ra material came out (yes, I'm that old ), I defined metaphysics as the study of the true universe, given that what we see, feel and measure is only a subset. Similarly, faith is adhering to a concept of purpose and intellect that came from divine revelation, a revered person, writing and/or art that carries no mathematical or scientific proof.

Wow, that sentence came out clunky.

A lesser type of faith would be a strong belief that my hero (sports? other?) won't let me down.

[native]

Yeah, while faith will have a blind quality to it, much of it is gathered from personal experience, and so it becomes truth through honest discernment of what's available.

---

I agree they are linked. I meant to say if you consider the experience of faith, and how faith may affect decisions, you are not necessarily involved in willing. I think the more 'effective' or comprehensive use of will must have a commensurate degree of faith. They are both principles.

I see what you're saying. Also, the more one balances themselves the more effective their will should become, because it would be aligned with and serve a higher purpose..which is perhaps what you mean by a commensurate degree of faith lol.

[turtledude23]

I think I just learned the value of faith 2 minutes ago. Faith is useful when you have done pretty much all you can by yourself and now you need someone else to do something that will make you happy or fulfill some purpose you believe in.

All my life I depended on myself for my happiness, today I felt overwhelmed with longing for seeing someone, and I couldn't see them, I couldn't even talk to them until a few hours ago. I felt terrible most of the day, almost suicidal, but all it took was this person talking to me for a bit and I felt way better. I considered how it's unfair for my happiness to be dependent on another person's actions but then I remembered how yesterday I read about how 5D and 6D wanderers came here to learn about how to become more intimate with people, trust them, connect with them, etc. and I realized that trust doesn't just mean things like "I trust you won't steal from my room when I go to the washroom" but that it could also mean trust in synchronicity. I was against the idea of faith because I considered it synonymous with dogma, but if faith means trust in whats best for you happening, even if its out of your control, even if you've done all you can, then now I finally see the value and purpose of faith.

[native]

Sounds like your love of self lessons are coming to an end, which would naturally be something we all go through, but a more delicate balancing process is available for those of us who are awake I think. I've recently come to a certain conclusion myself. Read 61.6, it's a good one about balancing dependence on others.

At a younger age most depend on their happiness through others. In certain situations it could be a lack of self-love (not enough wisdom of self-worthiness), and in other instances you're basically using others as extensions of the self. After turning inward to learn independence and find happiness within, thinking you only need the self for happiness is too much self-love again. Everything comes full-circle, and true appreciation for another can develop.

[godwide_void]

Really excellent thread here.

To demonstrate faith while being subjected to a cloak where the focus of your faith will never be conveyed to you as being true, with no tangible, absolute proof ever becoming manifest in your life, yet your faith in certain matters remains unwavering, this leads to the assurance that the choice you've made amidst every circumstance and experience to be genuine, empowering it and pretty much showing to our Creator "Hey, you see this? I will never know you are real, and everything I've seen and experienced in this world says otherwise, but y'know what? I believe, and I know you are real, and I wish to once more be in your embrace, and serve you, and act, think, and speak from a place where I acknowledge you as being within everything, even if nobody can see you in everything."

That makes this 3rd Density special, in that we can develop perception of the divine in say, a tree or a breeze; people would not think twice about passing a tree or that breeze that coincides with your thoughts, but those who stand rooted in faith will perceive differently, and instead of seeing just "tree" or feeling "wind" will see and feel "God". To choose and believe in the Creator, when it is nowhere to be found, is the sign that you are sincere in your seeking and your love for the light.

I no longer have faith, and my decision to offer my entire being as a conduit for the will of our Creator is not a matter of faith in my case... certain experiences have radically transformed my faith into knowingness, and the power of the illusion has rapidly dwindled. It is why I cherish ever occurrence, why I perform the service I do and ask nothing for it, why I choose to relinquish my desires in order to better assist those in my life who require it and why I speak the words I speak, think the thoughts I think and perform the deeds I do.

[Ankh]

...but if faith means trust in whats best for you happening, even if its out of your control, even if you've done all you can, then now I finally see the value and purpose of faith.

Yeah, it is something like that for me too. The simple faith/knowingness that intelligent infinity is all that there is, and resting in that faith/knowingness. That no matter how hard the winds blow, you are always part of this unity.

For me personally there occured a deep realization at one point that I don't know a thing, and there occured similar to a calling from deeper layers within of a strongest ever experienced *desire* to serve the Creator in a most efficient way; which brought a realization that in order to do that, one has to give the self up to that infinity since one does not know what is the best for the self; and in order to serve the intelligent infinity in a most efficient way, you need to be fully and completely manifested; and that happening, that manifestation of your completeness, is beyond any current understanding. That manifestation is personalized and suited for your individual progress/beingness, which is the service to the Creator. Faith is to trust this progress and rest in that.

[apeiron]

I think it is a necessary condition to reach intelligent infinity.

[zenmaster]

As far as I can tell, 'daigo' is the same as contact with intelligent infinity. From then on, there is almost an imposition of 'faith' such that it's impossible to become bored, self-pitied, etc.

[Dinko]

faith makes it easier for the individual to live on this planet as a human from the emotional aspect...

[Steppingfeet]

Great thread. Ankh, thanks for quoting some of the Ra passages that pertain to faith. I’ll reinsert because I want to riff off of them.

session 42:11 Wrote:The entire activity can only occur when there exists faith that an outcome of this discipline is possible.

session 41:21 Wrote:...through concentration of the will and the faculty of faith alone cause reprogramming without the analogy of the fasting, the diet, or other analogous body complex disciplines.

session 73:13 Wrote:...that the entity healed had been healed by its faith, that is, its ability to allow and accept changes through the violet-ray into the gateway of intelligent energy...

As I intellectually grasp the concept of faith, it goes like this.

As long as we perceive ourselves as separate, distinct, independent, closed-system entities; as long as we perceive we are in a certain time and in a certain place; as long as we perceive other faces and other places and other things and other processes as being separate from us; then faith is our connection to the real, to the infinite. Faith is that which informs are thinking minds and our awareness of what is really happening, of what the true, unified nature of this infinite narrative is.

Of course the real is our nature. Infinity is who we are. But to the extent that we conceptualize an identity that is distinct from and independent of the infinite, there is a sort of otherness to the Source, to that which lies beyond the boundaries of that which is known. It is an other realm, an other field, something greater than our everyday experience. Or so we perceive.

So in positive terms I would describe faith as that which connects or links the illusory entity to the undistorted original and only unity. It is an awareness of the infinite that, as Ra says, moves into the illusory entity through the violet ray chakra.

In negative terms I would describe faith as that which negates the seeming solidity, the limitations, the bindings, and the rules of the outer world of ever-shifting form.

When a healer like Jesus tells a recipient of healing that she has been healed by her own faith, Jesus is saying, basically, that is by your remembrance, by your awareness of who and what you really are that you have been healed.

You have become aware, deep down within, of your true nature. You have become aware that this outer world is a play of passing forms - you are not these forms, and your are not bound by these forms. Nor do these forms contain the meaning you imbue them with - there is not "disharmony", there is not "imperfection", there is not "fragmentation", there is not "incompleteness".

Session 4:20 Ra: “Healing occurs when a mind/body/spirit complex realizes, deep within itself, the Law of One; that is, that there is no disharmony, no imperfection; that all is complete and whole and perfect. Thus, the intelligent infinity within this mind/body/spirit complex re-forms the illusion of body, mind, or spirit to a form congruent with the Law of One.”

Faith is that which links the mind/body/spirit complex to its deepest identity, an identity which completely transcends the boundaries of the physical illusion and thus, in the illusory hierarchy of things, is supraordinate to the illusion; and thus, when invoked, can make changes to the illusion.

Likewise with faith, with that connection to the real, the entity can move the mountain. The entity living in faith knows on the level of experience that the mountain is a temporary, passing, finite, limited, illusory form which springs from the formless, the seeming emptiness, the unborn, unmanifested, infinite unity.

In that sense faith is *outside* of the illusion, though ultimately all things being not-two, there is no outside; there is no category of unity that is apart from non-unity.

But from the perception of the illusion-bound entity, illusion may be manipulated from its source - that from which the illusion sprang - including modifying the configuration of the mind/body/spirit complex itself. There are no limitations in true faith.

To put it another way, faith is that which pierces the veil, and if consistently practiced through the use of will by the seemingly separate entity, is that which eventually renders the veil for what it is, an illusion to be discarded and dismantled.

From this side of the veil, it seems we are separate from the realm of the infinite and need to invoke, call upon, and practice faith. From the perspective of faith, there is no veil, at least in the sense that there is no true partition between two things, because there can be no true partition in a creation of unity.

All is one, and the awareness that connects to unity manifests an attitude within the illusion that says, “all is well”, because the entity of faith has stopped identifying itself with outer forms and mental patterns.

If the world descends into chaos and blows itself up in an orgy of destruction, the entity of faith, not identified with the world, knows that its true identity remains unaffected. The entity of faith operates outside of time and space within its awareness, and has activated the keys to unknowing.

And the faculty of will, the other side of the coin, must actively call upon and practice and abide in faith. Will and faith share a relationship of reciprocity, I think -- one strengthening and enabling the other the more each is accessed and utilized and experienced.

That’s my thoughts.

: ) GLB

I especially liked the following two thoughts:

Diana: I see hope as attachment also. Hope, worry, are both attached to a projected future. To be fully present is to access the field of infinite potential. Once one is present and accessing the field of infinite potential, all is possible; and then the use of will or desire can direct it.

Godwide Void: To demonstrate faith while being subjected to a cloak where the focus of your faith will never be conveyed to you as being true, with no tangible, absolute proof ever becoming manifest in your life, yet your faith in certain matters remains unwavering, this leads to the assurance that the choice you've made amidst every circumstance and experience to be genuine, empowering it and pretty much showing to our Creator "Hey, you see this? I will never know you are real, and everything I've seen and experienced in this world says otherwise, but y'know what? I believe, and I know you are real, and I wish to once more be in your embrace, and serve you, and act, think, and speak from a place where I acknowledge you as being within everything, even if nobody can see you in everything."

That makes this 3rd Density special, in that we can develop perception of the divine in say, a tree or a breeze; people would not think twice about passing a tree or that breeze that coincides with your thoughts, but those who stand rooted in faith will perceive differently, and instead of seeing just "tree" or feeling "wind" will see and feel "God". To choose and believe in the Creator, when it is nowhere to be found, is the sign that you are sincere in your seeking and your love for the light.

[Sacred Fool]

Alternatively, one could ask, "What Is the Value of Faithfulness?"

I looked up the history of the word "faith" and it comes from French and Latin (fides) before it, meaning "trust." The "fides" reminds me of Adeste Fideles--Oh, Come All Ye Faithful.

What does being faithful mean, but keeping a trust?

Anyhow, it seemed to me, browsing this thread, that a missing element might be recognition and highlighting of faith in what one truly knows down deep inside. Often the inner knowledge is dimmed for various reasons, but it may be that the recognition of this most genuine inner knowing--and, not secondarily, keeping faith with it--is the true stuff of inner/outward alignment and, thus, of polarization?

...or maybe not...gee, I'm not sure...I...uh...?

Why should I trust that stuff in the first place? Why shouldn't I?

[zenmaster]

If faith is trust, then the question of 'should' or 'shouldn't' isn't really an option.

[Steppingfeet]

During the first half of my twenties I spent considerable time steeping myself in not only the Law of One material, but even more so the larger body of work generated by L/L Research, namely the conscious channeling of Confederation sources. I would sit into the night reading transcript after transcript, soaking my mind in the information’s gentle, Creator-focused influence.

During that process I excerpted hundreds of passages from Q’uo and organized them topically according to the basic outline of principles I saw repeated again and again in the Confederation message.

During the latter half of my twenties I fell out of the habit as my appetite for spiritually oriented information moved into other associated and congruent realms of thought. This Bring4th thread regarding “faith” prompted me to open the folder with my topically organized Q’uo excerpts. Peering into that folder, I wiped the dust off the collection on faith, the one I had named “Intelligent Infinity.doc”. I spent time reading it this morning with somewhat watery eyes. Over the intervening years I had lost touch with the beauty of Q’uo and, what I consider, the purity and positivity of the message.

In their and the instrument’s own poetic, eloquent way, they speak to the seeker lost, seemingly, within the physical illusion, and inspire a vision of the seeker’s true estate in oneness with all. I felt that all the learning which had occurred over the years on my path (what little has occurred) was affirmed and corroborated in Q’uo’s words. This is especially moving to me, because Q’uo, in bulk, is that material which formed the structure and framework of my seeking in the first portion of my path. To leave it for so long and to then return full circle to realize its beauty and truth from a new, hopefully more evolved vantage point is poignant for me.

So, with all that said, I’m attaching a collection of Q’uo excerpts that I compiled on “faith”. Included in the document are a few inserts I think I gathered from Carla’s own words while reading AWH. (“A Wanderer’s Handbook”) None of the excerpts are linked to the transcript from which they were taken as that wasn’t important to me at the time.


  Intelligent Infinity.doc (Size: 186 KB / Downloads: 6)

While reading Q’uo’s thoughts on faith, I forgot how often they refer to the image of the seeker desperately clinging to the branch along the cliffside, with a tiger above and a tiger below and an abyss beneath. The act of faith in this image being the seeker’s release of the branch and the free-falling into mid-air.

This to me suggests that faith is a consciousness which transcends the ordinary mind. In so doing, it refuses to deal with the illusion on the illusion’s own terms, and the illusion’s own internal logic. Where the illusion says be afraid, or cling to your mortal physical body, or there is danger around you, or there is reason to worry and be anxious, faith responds otherwise. Without basis in reason or linear thought or logic which would be comprehensible to the illusion-bound intellect, the faithful entity chucks everything to the wind, releases the branch, and leaps. Leaps into… nothing. Into that which is perceived as a “nothing” to the ordinary mode of perceptions. And upon doing, the entity of faith discovers that, as the Confederation suggests again and again, there is something there in mid-air. There is security. There is purpose. There is true identity.

I love the image of “mid-air”, because it illustrates quite aptly the position of faith. There is nothing to hold onto. There is no defining oneself with reference to objects within, and ideas born of, the illusion. There is no, “I am this or that career”, “I am this or that gender”, “I have this or that talent”, “I have this or that relationship with this person or group of people”, etc. There is only a self-luminous, irreducible, free, unbound, fully present, time-less and space-less I AM. In other words, Being. In other words, Eternity. In other words, Infinity. In other words, Non-Duality: that which moves beyond all categories of thought and activity.

Q’uo says: “…you as a spirit must turn it, and must go through that door into self-forgiveness and awareness of infinite redemption and newness, a resting place for all eternity.” And, “…yet the more time that you spend in this room with the deep mind the more you shall flower as an entity.”

As I had written in my previous post in this thread, faith informs and modifies the illusion. Simply existing in this state – without directing faith toward a particular goal or outcome – faith saturates the personality, cleaning its muddy windows which obscure the Creator from shining through and which impede the Creator from melodically playing the individual self as the musician would the instrument.

How does simply resting in faith achieve this? Not that I have the chops to describe this, and perhaps not that it can be described, but this faith is a knowing which allows the entity to release fear, release desire, and release the need to control. It is these illusory energies (fear, desire, control) that, in my opinion, constitute the opaque, separate entity. So in releasing these qualities of fear, desire, and control, you are releasing the separate individual in the embrace of who you already are.

Q’uo says: “To the Creator, you are always in paradise, but each of you is in an illusion which decries the apparent inaccuracy of our previous statement, and it is only by faith that you may feel that love, that acceptance, that forgiveness and that support. It is only by faith that you may continue standing when you feel that life has cut you off at the knees. It is only by faith that you can stay alive when you feel that your life is not worth the living.”

Again there is the relationship of the illusory, individual entity, and the Creator – the Ground of Being. Faith, then, is that conduit, doorway, or gateway through which the entity returns home to its source within; through which flows infinite consciousness into the finite, temporal consciousness, modifying and uplifting the latter so that it “becomes”, in a sense, the former.

That’s enough out of me for today. Sorry for the long-winded nature of my ramblings.
With love, Gary

[Sacred Fool]

If faith is trust, then the question of 'should' or 'shouldn't' isn't really an option.

I'm not sure I understand why you offer this. Is not free will in play here?

Just because I believe something doesn't mean that I can get it together to act on it. (Trust me.)

---

This to me suggests that faith is a consciousness which transcends the ordinary mind. In so doing, it refuses to deal with the illusion on the illusion’s own terms, and the illusion’s own internal logic.

Could it be a poise of consciousness which encompasses (rather than transcends) a variety of levels of consciousness?

How does simply resting in faith achieve this? ..this faith is a knowing which allows the entity to release fear, release desire, and release the need to control. It is these illusory energies (fear, desire, control) that, in my opinion, constitute the opaque, separate entity. So in releasing these qualities of fear, desire, and control, you are releasing the separate individual in the embrace of who you already are.

Q’uo says: “To the Creator, you are always in paradise, but each of you is in an illusion which decries the apparent inaccuracy of our previous statement, and it is only by faith that you may feel that love, that acceptance, that forgiveness and that support. It is only by faith that you may continue standing when you feel that life has cut you off at the knees. It is only by faith that you can stay alive when you feel that your life is not worth the living.”

For my money (or, "For my energy expenditure"), this gets to the heart of the value of faith. It's that inner knowing that trumps apparent reality and it's the courage to stand up in that knowing that conduces to increase of polarity.

But what distinguishes this inner knowing from psychosis or a simpler form of self-delusion?