child molesters

[3DMonkey]

Punch? Hmmmm. I was thinking broom stick...

[Bring4th_Austin]

I've heard about some awesome projects they have here in Sweden, where the victim gets to meet the victimizer. The results are amazing. Most of the times, they both start crying and forgiving. The rate of criminal acts when prisoners are later released from the jail drastically decreases. They should start these projects everywhere, so that the criminals will meet the victims, and hear their story of how their act affected the victims and their lives. And the victim will meet the criminal and see that it's a person too, and learn how to forgive, and to not be afraid.

WOW!!! That's incredible! I had no idea such a spiritually advanced program was in place anywhere! Sweden sounds very progressive in many ways.

There was a story on NPR's This American Life last week about a man who was raped by a family friend when he was a child. Obviously he had very deep emotional issues from the event. He never told anyone and he carried it with him his whole life. Many years later, when he was a functioning adult, he plotted to kill the man who raped him. He came up with a very intricate scenario, bought a "crime-ready" gun, had it all planned out and was ready to go through with it. The week before he was going to kill him, his parents found an old journal of his where he talked about the rape. At that point he decided he couldn't do it because the motive was now public. Instead he decided to confront the man face to face. By meeting him and talking to him about what happened, he was able to release the anger and move on from what happened.

There's no way I could convey the emotional power the piece had through a quick synopsis. The show is free to download online if anyone is interested, I'd have to dig around a bit to find it but I would be happy to do so for anyone who wants to give it a listen. It's a great piece.

[zenmaster]

Why anyone would chose to be raped is beyond me, but apparently it's a good evolutionary aid.

[BrownEye]

I think in certain cultures where there is no choice made in incarnation it may not exactly be choice.

For those new to 3D, I wonder how much is actually choice? Don't they need to have all that catalyst shoveled on them until they develop a "bias"?

[3DMonkey]

Why anyone would chose to be raped is beyond me, but apparently it's a good evolutionary aid.

Thinking one chose it is the evolutionary aid, not the rape itself.

Actually believing others decided to have it happen preincarnatively is malarkey.

[Cyan]

If you were raped and believe in karma, then you cant get around the fact that you deserved it.

You can justify it anyway you want but if you look at it long and hard you HAVE to admit that you CANT have it both way, either the universe is fundementally unjust and you were raped because of it. Or, the universe is fundementally just and you were raped because of Karma.

My best answer is this.

Dont think of time as linear.

Being raped could be what you decided to use as a catalyst to prevent you, yourself, from raping someone else in the future which would have happened had your higher self not intervened. You just dont know. Its simple as that.

Either you believe that everything that happens to you, even the worst possible actions, are inherantly the result of Karma and controlled for you, by the best interest of you, or you dont.

To put it in another way. There is something that your higher self wants you to do in this lifetime that it finds only possible if it programs such a event into your life. And it considers the future event important enough to actually program it himself, fall below the curtain and incarnate as you in emotions and then live through it himself and then die and crash through the curtain again. The entire time knowing that he experiences those things only because he programmed it. The pain of that usually makes the soul very reluctant to look truth in the eye thus most creatures post-veil are compulsive liars, lie being the opposite of the truth that this existence will hurt, and it will only hurt because you want it to hurt becaus eyou want a specific kind of life.

You want more than lying in a bed having your brain pump out endorphines, and your higher self has no other choice but to program you with catalyst, some of them will be considered painful as some of them must reduce energies and attributes that your own programming considers of secondary importance.

That, is my view, on the concept of why a soul would choose to be molested and why physical punishment of molesters themselves is of less importance than focusing on letting children educate us (allow children bigger rights and listen to them more closely and perhapse we would be able to provide the emotional and intellectual catalyst that is sought without having to resort to such painful experiences). Would make it easier for them to get the catalyst they need in ego-self without requiring them to desire to be molested.

The other side is this.

The definition of molestation and child is so hotly debated that without a proper definition of child molesters there is really no possibility of an accurate moral balance.

Therefore, i would propose we figure out the societal structure we want first, and then what is the proper way to define mating procedures.

I would prefer to make a any voluntary interaction between 2 people capable of making informed decisions on their immdiate environment legal.

Then make the definition of crime forcing someone to do anything someone does not want to do.

Punishment would be isolation on a peaceful quiet location with an implanted tracking device under the skin and specific areas where movement would be allowed (you could buy a nice piece of land in the middle of canada and let all the molesters stay there until the collective energy of what they are doing is enough on a individual by individual basis)

So, sexual molestation would be defined as any sexual act that forces the other self to participate in an act that is against their will or assists integrally with said act. The chosen punishment would be isolation in a peaceful secluded environment with other similar offenders and release would be conditional upon having a very low or no risk of doing the same action again.

Age would be set after a careful nation specific study on the age when people are on average able to make informed decisions about their immediate environments I belive that Spains law is a fairly good example of a working system.

[3DMonkey]

If time isn't linear and we have free will to think however we want, then we can have it both ways. It is reconciled at the higher densities of thought.

[Shemaya]

Why anyone would chose to be raped is beyond me, but apparently it's a good evolutionary aid.

It' really not, it's exceedingly damaging to the physical body and psyche. Rape victims have so much rage that they end up repressing their emotions for fear of hurting someone. Especially child rape victims which is way too common.

It's just an artifact of how sick, messed up, and damaged our collective mind/ body/ spirit has become in this cycle. And so many of us are here now making sacrifices to restore things. There is a lot of healing needed.

We can nonchalantly pass by and say oh that entity wanted to evolve so chose that horrifying situation. Or we can extend ourselves in service with our love, compassion, energy, prayers, and consciousness to aid in transforming a societal ill that is way beyond what should be. It just should not be happening, and must end.

[Cyan]

Wether it happens or not is irrelevant

What is, is how our ego selves react to that impulse. What path we choose when such a thing happens.

Mine is that victim and perpetrator both need help and healing. One needs it by being sent to think alone, one by being embraced. Way too often, we get the two confused.


Edit: what is relevant is not what catalysts is presented, but how you react to the catalyst that is presented. Rape is an extreme form of a specific type of catalyst, but not any more heinous than any other type of catalyst. Murder and Rape and War and Torture are all collectively the type of catalyst that is experienced when separation is the concept that is explored. Ask yourself what catalyst you wish to experience if in your world rape is a prelevant societal situation.

[norral]

i think cyan gets down to the fundamental question. do we live in a just universe or is it a random walk here. does god actually enjoy seeing people suffer. why is it that the biggest jerks on this planet seem to be the ones in control which is why we have all this cover up and deception and lies. i honestly dont know the answers to these questions. i know i have seen times in my own life when i was doing great and stuff has come out of left field to knock me for a loop . did i deserve it. did i want it . was it a learning experience i just dont know. it sure didnt feel like i wanted it i can tell u that. there is a lot about the reasons for things in this reality that i personally dont understand. but what i can do is offer my compassion and my assistance to those who have suffered . that is probably the most beneficial thing i can do. i find that when i try to dig deeper i always wind up at a dead end and it makes me unhappy because one of the unfortunate conclusions that is out there is that god enjoys seeing people suffer. so i try not to go there too much because i never get a definitive answer to the question and it is the type of question that u must answer for yourself, someone else knowledge will not suffice for me.

norral

[3DMonkey]

To move on, we accept who we are by thanking what has led us up to this point.

That's what the "preincarnate choice" belief is. A tool, and it has been given different names.

[zenmaster]

We can nonchalantly pass by and say oh that entity wanted to evolve so chose that horrifying situation. Or we can extend ourselves in service with our love, compassion, energy, prayers, and consciousness to aid in transforming a societal ill that is way beyond what should be. It just should not be happening, and must end.

The problem, all along, was due to people wanting to transform society into the way "it should be".

[Shemaya]

We can nonchalantly pass by and say oh that entity wanted to evolve so chose that horrifying situation. Or we can extend ourselves in service with our love, compassion, energy, prayers, and consciousness to aid in transforming a societal ill that is way beyond what should be. It just should not be happening, and must end.

The problem, all along, was due to people wanting to transform society into the way "it should be".

To me it's more like getting into alignment with our higher Consciousness, God-self. There is some serious disjuncture happening, things are way off-track from what was intentioned in this experiment. That is why so many wanderers answered the call to help. It's a big sacrifice for us to come back here in these conditions.

The healing has to happen before anything can be transformed. So that is why I suggest opening our hearts in compassion and not accepting things the way they are. Good thing I only need 51% to pass...there are many things in this world that are unacceptable to me. One of them being child rape.

[norral]

amen to that sister !!

[native]

Actually believing others decided to have it happen preincarnatively is malarkey.

Why? In terms of gathering experience in general, it would seem that if you commit rape, an efficient way of attempting to balance all the damage you've done is to incarnate as a victim eventually.

That's not to say I go around having an empty heart towards such an act, or believing that a victim "had it coming", but just highlighting the possibility.

[Oceania]

Monkey thinks all this is hogwash. it's all in the mind.

[BrownEye]

Dont think of time as linear.

Being raped could be what you decided to use as a catalyst to prevent you, yourself, from raping someone else in the future which would have happened had your higher self not intervened. You just dont know. Its simple as that.

True interdimensional perception allows for the possiblity that you are both the rapist and the victim. In linear time that would seem impossible.

At the level of your higher self, it is possible for you to be a few others as well.

On top of that there are the "contracts/agreements" between higher selves and groups.

[3DMonkey]

it would seem that if you commit rape, an efficient way of attempting to balance all the damage you've done is to incarnate as a victim eventually.

1. This is your idea. How does having this idea effect you?

2. My idea is that, if your idea is true then good people choose to incarnate as rapists to balance all the good they did in the last life.

---

And following your logic, the act would be serving the other who needed to balance the previous life's bad works. Then we get lost in who is good or bad.

[Oceania]

none of it makes sense.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Actually believing others decided to have it happen preincarnatively is malarkey.

Why? In terms of gathering experience in general, it would seem that if you commit rape, an efficient way of attempting to balance all the damage you've done is to incarnate as a victim eventually.

That's not to say I go around having an empty heart towards such an act, or believing that a victim "had it coming", but just highlighting the possibility.

It's very dangerous thinking. If we dismiss suffering, especially something as horrible as rape, as "karma" for something done in a past life (when we have absolutely no proof of such a thing), we allow dogma to perpetuate suffering. Cultures who believe in reincarnation created entire caste systems out of that concept and allowed a terrible amount of suffering due to the idea of karma.

[Plenum]

2. My idea is that, if your idea is true then good people choose to incarnate as rapists to balance all the good they did in the last life.

that's a whole new understanding of BALANCE!

Punch? Hmmmm. I was thinking broom stick...

how about this:





what they did in the Middle Ages when they really disliked someone ...

(I think Pickle invented this)

[3DMonkey]

The guy on right seems to be enjoying his work

[BrownEye]

The guy on right seems to be enjoying his work

Guy on right is carrying a sword. Makes me think of how the medals in military given out for "good job killing" have the inverted star.

Maybe it is a "pointer" on the direction being traveled.

[Oceania]

how is that any better than molesting someone?

[native]

1. This is your idea. How does having this idea effect you?

2. My idea is that, if your idea is true then good people choose to incarnate as rapists to balance all the good they did in the last life.

---

And following your logic, the act would be serving the other who needed to balance the previous life's bad works. Then we get lost in who is good or bad.

I'm saying that possibly, if one ends up walking down a path that they regret, it would only natural to work backwards and experience your own actions. You're your own judge and jury. I mostly believe this ping-ponging back and forth would occur when we're naive in incarnational experience, to see what we like or don't like. And for the experience in general.

---

It's very dangerous thinking. If we dismiss suffering, especially something as horrible as rape, as "karma" for something done in a past life (when we have absolutely no proof of such a thing), we allow dogma to perpetuate suffering. Cultures who believe in reincarnation created entire caste systems out of that concept and allowed a terrible amount of suffering due to the idea of karma.

With infinite possibility, we have no idea what created certain circumstances and why people are experiencing the things they are. I actually believe this way of thinking provides a basis for non-judgment, because it's all relative and we're in the dark, so how can we be in a position to judge, or know what's going on?

I made the comment that I don't go around thinking "Oh someone might just be experiencing their karma." That's pretty heartless! So I'm not dismissing suffering either, or putting forth that I don't make value judgements. Of course those actions aren't ok, but on a higher-level I can accept them. Know what I mean?

[BrownEye]

You're your own judge and jury.

Most are not aware of this "you" separate from the thought processes.

The little "spark" inside of us is one end of the "arc" I brought up elsewhere.

[zenmaster]

So that is why I suggest opening our hearts in compassion and not accepting things the way they are.

But we don't understand things 'the way they are'. So what are we to accept (or in your case 'not accept').

"In the context of doing work in the disciplines of the personality, in order to be of more full efficiency in the central acceptance of the self, it is first quite necessary to know the distortions of the self which the entity is accepting. "

We've discovered some superficial social symptoms which we disagree with. A lot of those symptoms had to do with lack of acceptance in the first place, yet similar to allopathic medicine, we offer a 'prescription' to treat these symptoms without addressing the cause. And not surprisingly, the symptoms persist.

I agree with J. Krishnamuriti - the individual and society are the same thing. This necessarily means that there is a reciprocal dynamic involved in all observed behavior. In other words, some aspect of the pathology is within all participants, on some level.

[native]

Most are not aware of this "you" separate from the thought processes.

The little "spark" inside of us is one end of the "arc" I brought up elsewhere.

A question I find myself asking often, is why we specifically, find ourselves in such a chaotic, separative environment, far out on the arm of the galaxy.

Nevermind the whole story that Ra painted as to what's going on, or that Venus was harmonious. Maybe that's just part of the "tale".

Is it because we were negative in the past, and were required to wander out to the edges where separation (wisdom) is pronounced? It's said that graduation from fifth to sixth involves consciously accepting the honor/duty of the Law of One.

After all that experience with wisdom (or in the process of balancing 6d), do we come to a highly contrasted 3d environment so that we can learn to consciously accept that it's all ok, or that perhaps we directly cooperated in creating these conditions? Breaking free from slavery as you say.

[3DMonkey]

1. This is your idea. How does having this idea effect you?

2. My idea is that, if your idea is true then good people choose to incarnate as rapists to balance all the good they did in the last life.

---

And following your logic, the act would be serving the other who needed to balance the previous life's bad works. Then we get lost in who is good or bad.

I'm saying that possibly, if one ends up walking down a path that they regret, it would only natural to work backwards and experience your own actions. You're your own judge and jury. I mostly believe this ping-ponging back and forth would occur when we're naive in incarnational experience, to see what we like or don't like. And for the experience in general.

Explore all desire. But the bad ones are better explored only in the mind. I think that goes for victim as well.

[Shemaya]

So that is why I suggest opening our hearts in compassion and not accepting things the way they are.

But we don't understand things 'the way they are'. So what are we to accept (or in your case 'not accept').

"In the context of doing work in the disciplines of the personality, in order to be of more full efficiency in the central acceptance of the self, it is first quite necessary to know the distortions of the self which the entity is accepting. "

We've discovered some superficial social symptoms which we disagree with. A lot of those symptoms had to do with lack of acceptance in the first place, yet similar to allopathic medicine, we offer a 'prescription' to treat these symptoms without addressing the cause. And not surprisingly, the symptoms persist.

I agree with J. Krishnamuriti - the individual and society are the same thing. This necessarily means that there is a reciprocal dynamic involved in all observed behavior. In other words, some aspect of the pathology is within all participants, on some level.

Yes that I'd agree with that, some aspect of the pathology is within all participants. That is why healing and compassion are vital. There's a lot of inner work needed before society is transformed. Our pathologies are passed down generationally , victims become perpetrators, and the cycle continues. Unhealed wounds end up becoming psychological projection from parent to child, which is another way the pathology is passed down.

What I am saying is that notions of Karma, and big picture perspectives on society's ills may assuage our feelings about the suffering that occurs on the planet, but it's our creation and it's up to us to do the transformative work that will change things here on the ground. And that work is inner as well as outer, I would agree.