04-24-2016, 05:36 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018, 09:10 AM by GentleWanderer.)
________
As of Friday, August 5th, 2022, the Bring4th forums on this page have been converted to a permanent read-only archive. If you would like to continue your journey with Bring4th, the new forums are now at https://discourse.bring4th.org.
You are invited to enjoy many years worth of forum messages brought forth by our community of seekers. The site search feature remains available to discover topics of interest. (July 22, 2022)
x
04-24-2016, 05:36 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018, 09:10 AM by GentleWanderer.)
________
(04-24-2016, 05:36 AM)GentleWanderer Wrote: Indeed he was a genius and a very advanced soul, but do you think he's STO I 100% believe he was STO. I myself can attest to the healing/magical potential of authentic creativity. Stevie wonder literally transformed my perception with one song (Superstition) during my own period of grief and sorrow. Every once in a while, an artist will access the collective unconscious and retrieve something that nobody has ever experienced before. He was one of them imo. He was so outrageously gifted that I think he was, to some degree, ostracized even within the music industry. He showed classic signs of adept hood (in terms of his beingness) to me and one of my favourite quotes I would attribute to Prince as being a modern example of... "I pay no attention whatever for praise or blame. I simply follow my own feelings." - Mozart Purple Rain & When Doves Cry are my personal favourites (There is only one power ballad that beats Purple Rain in my emotional charts and that's, Alone, by Heart). There is an unmistakable vibratory distinction between STO and STS music that is unprovable. It can really only be felt, and is exquisitely expressed in The Jackson 5's unity song, Can You Feel It. So Prince's art has made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, reduced me to tears and left me speechless. And so I would trust those experiences over the worlds opinion of him without hesitation. (04-24-2016, 05:36 AM)GentleWanderer Wrote: and if so has he reached the 51% threshold ? I think it is impossible to say. I only have a concrete belief that he was a bonafide humanitarian. EDIT: Generally, I also feel STO's tend to die younger than the average person. I suspect once their mission, or the heart of their material has been shared, there is little desire to remain, at least subconsciously.
04-24-2016, 03:45 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018, 09:11 AM by GentleWanderer.)
_______
04-24-2016, 05:35 PM
(04-24-2016, 03:45 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote: I never thought about the concept of STS music, do you have some exemple ? I'm sure all the music i like must be STO. I cannot give you any examples of STS music. However I would say that it is equally valid and serves it's purpose on the grander stage. There are many such examples to be found today, and it is not my place to discern such things for you. What I can say though is that STS oriented music stars have a fan base that appear to me as lost and powerless. STO artists, conversely, have a fan base that are somewhat transformed and empowered. I would also suggest that STS stars, although equal in talent, prefer to scan the outer world for ideas rather than seek within for original concepts. That's at least the trend I have picked up on, albeit subjectively. As for Madonna? She is a self proclaimed "Material Girl", right? STO music makers I refer to as Artists, and STS music makers I refer to as Stars. This a personal dichotomy of mine One other thing worth noting about Prince was his rare degree of creative autonomy over his music. Here is a quote from Prince during a Larry King interview in 1999..."Well ya know...As I... Go through this journey I don't really look back that much at all. I try to stay in the now and live in the now. And I think it keeps you young" Here is my favourite Artist paying tribute to Prince
04-25-2016, 01:05 AM
Oh man, positive violet-ray out the wazzoo.
Stevie Wonder is also a magical man.
04-25-2016, 09:08 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018, 09:12 AM by GentleWanderer.)
_____
04-25-2016, 09:15 AM
Yeah I personally see a lot of parallels between Prince and Jimi. Both extremely eccentric because of their extreme dedication to music and being themselves. I heard that Prince has literally thousands of unreleased songs - he wrote/recorded a song nearly every single day.
04-25-2016, 09:17 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018, 09:12 AM by GentleWanderer.)
_____
04-25-2016, 10:32 AM
... I'm really not sure if it's productive to sit around trying to judge the polarity or density of celebrities, or anyone else for that matter. It's pretty much impossible for us to know with any certainty at all, at least in the vast majority of cases. There's just no way for us to look with clarity into the hearts of anyone else.
Like, one of my favorite examples is Alice Cooper. Religious groups hated on him for decades, for his "demonic" stage persona. But the joke is, the dude's Christian, seriously so. He just likes playing a bad guy onstage for fun. I also seem to remember an interview where he compared to himself to people who'd play the Devil in Passion Plays and things like that. As he sees it, someone needs to play that role, being the shadow which emphasizes the light, and better it be someone who's acting than someone who's legitimately embracing the darkness. The point being, of course, that it's easy to misjudge someone whose life plays out on a stage. And either way, trying to divide up celebrities into lists of STO and STS strikes me as fundamentally exclusionary, which is itself against the LOO. The Creator is in ALL things, and can be found in even the most tasteless or banal of pop music, if someone is looking for him there.
04-25-2016, 10:39 AM
I think there is something to be said about the difference between music that stimulates the heart/higher energy centers and music that emphasizes lower triad blockages. I think framing it in that way might be better.
04-25-2016, 12:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2016, 01:18 PM by Bring4th_Austin.)
Prince is one of my all-time favorite musical artists.
I think that for most people to handle such an insane amount of fame, their personalities have to be reinforced and rigid in some areas. Prince was able to communicate clearly from an open heart through his music. I think it's unmistakable to most people. However, you can certainly find many "horror stories" about his behavior as a famous star. Can anyone remain grounded when they are thrust so high by society? And also, he did not share his music very openly. Not that you have to give away everything you do for free to be positively oriented, but he was one of the most controlling artists that I've seen in regards to how his music is shared. So far as I could tell, no where in his philosophy of sharing music was it to make it more available for more people to hear. Even after making his fortune many times over, he still maintained a tight grip over how his music was shared, instead of opening it up to the world. And this is his personal philosophy, not a result of a controlling music industry. This perception is a result of both my personal experience attempting to consume his music as well as stories I have read about his attempts to clamp down on music sharing. But he also did things like make a secret donation to keep the Western Branch Louisville Library (which has historical significance for African-American civil rights) open after the city was planning to close it. He wanted the donation to remain anonymous, which it did until his death. This sort of donation is prime PR for a person who was worried about their status as a celebrity. He did it because he felt it was the right thing to do, not because of how it would help his image. So I'm really on the same page as APeacefulWarrior, I don't think it's even possible to begin to judge what his orientation was. We only know him through what he presented to society. Though what glimpses we can see of him through his art and how he presented himself, I'm inclined to think he was a very special individual. If anything, to me, he was a revolutionary artist, one of the most creative and talented of recent generations, and his music had a positive impact on many, many lives. That is a testament to itself, no need to bring in polarity. I'm not a big fan of applying negative concepts, or even concepts of "lower triad blockages," to artists based on the art they create. Take Madonna for example - to say she is a "self proclaimed Material Girl" is taking that song at face-value without diving beneath the surface. Is she singing from a personal perspective? Is she making a commentary on a type of person? Is she making a testament to a period in her life? Is she being ironic? Is she just exclaiming to the world what she is? We are all a work-in-progress. I do believe that balancing is the work of a lifetime. And for distortions to be balanced, they must be perceived clearly. What better way to do that then to either artistically express it (consciously or unconsciously) or appreciate an artistic representation (consciously or unconsciously)? Music which seems to emphasize a lower triad blockage could just as easily be coming from someone who is attempting to work through them as it is someone who currently identifies with them. And even if a person is currently identifying with them, bringing them into perception through art is a great way to get a grasp on them and process them as catalyst, either positively or negatively. A person who listens to and appreciates such songs may be on a path of evolution, but have hang-ups or distortions in those areas that are stimulated and excited by the energies. The art is a service to them to help them become more aware of these distortions, even if it takes their entire lifetime. It's probably good to point out that Prince had some music which I feel relied on some lower triad sexual distortions. And I do not attribute the mass-produced pop music industry to a controlling elite. The songs may be formulaic and may play upon distortions or themes which tend to addict, but fans of this music are not victims. The only way for the music industry to take advantage of such distortions is for the distortions to already be present. What is popular in culture is a direct representation of where that culture is at that moment, and each culture is also a work-in-progress, just as individuals are. I do believe that the ultimate responsibility for how the music affects culture lies on those who direct their consciousness towards that music, not the ones who create it.
_____________________________
The only frontier that has ever existed is the self.
04-25-2016, 02:25 PM
Took the words right out of my mouth. All music is CATALYST, whether or not is it then polarized positively or negatively is dependent on the individual. The lower triad centers are NOT STS, and they also need to be energized, balanced and empowered. Receiving a charge in one of the lower centers has absolutely nothing in the slightest to do with being or experiencing STS or STO, it is how the charge is used within the self that determines what polarity results from the catalyst.
An entity can even have their attempts backfire if they're trying to inspire a certain polarity by an individual whom is already choosing their polarity. In my opinion, people who struggle with any type of music are really just struggling with emotions. They don't like the emotions which the music brings up in them and unable to accept this they villianize the music as being the "cause" behind the feelings when really I think the feelings were already there and unaccepted with the music merely drawing them out.
04-25-2016, 03:29 PM
"If you set your mind free baby, you would understand": All music is catalyst, catalyst is music to the soul.
I just want to say that I did not mean lower triad blockages were a negative thing, that was something projected upon my statement. I was just pointing out that there is an obvious difference in energy between, say, a song like "Hallelujah" and a song like "Smack My B**** Up". Ra told Carla that singing spiritual music would help her vital energies - obviously, singing Material Girl with a spiritual bend is singing a love song to money and not what Ra was talking about. Music has energy, and some music carries a "higher energy". Not to mention, most art is rooted in archetypical energies. Obviously certain music will stimulate certain chakras and energy movements, and yes, this is totally personal. But I still think it's an appropriate discussion, in that context. Obviously trying to judge an artist's polarity by their work is not necessarily fruitful, but I believe discussing the power of music to move energy and the way that certain songs (or artists!) affect that is. I also am seriously not intending to mean that if one has lower blockages or enjoys music that explores those that they are STS, or even if they write music that explores these topics that they would be STS. Shoot, in this context, what percentage of Prince songs are inspired by his over-active red-ray?
04-25-2016, 05:24 PM
Maybe it wasn't actually over-active and we're just so used to seeing blocked red-rays that one that is wide open is bizarre?
04-25-2016, 05:29 PM
Well, that's likely true. I'm not exactly that familiar with Prince's music so I'm just shooting in the dark in those regards. I do get a feeling of "unsatiated" however haha.
04-25-2016, 05:33 PM
That was just the 70's/80's in general.
04-25-2016, 05:42 PM
Well, regardless, "much more wide open than the average" would still be considered "over-active", in context. But this is just how we all move energy around - waxing and waning our chakras. I certainly didn't mean to put negative judgement upon it.
04-25-2016, 05:42 PM
I'm just being a stickler lately, don't mind me.
04-25-2016, 05:43 PM
No worries, I'm usually a stickler so I deserve it!
04-28-2016, 08:21 PM
Not gonna be surprised if an upcoming "Watchtower" says Prince was the Messiah and we start to witness things related to the claim.
Been listening to Prince non stop the past week. His music heals the soul, for sure.
04-28-2016, 11:36 PM
(04-25-2016, 02:25 PM)Aion Wrote: Took the words right out of my mouth. All music is CATALYST, whether or not is it then polarized positively or negatively is dependent on the individual. The lower triad centers are NOT STS, and they also need to be energized, balanced and empowered. Receiving a charge in one of the lower centers has absolutely nothing in the slightest to do with being or experiencing STS or STO, it is how the charge is used within the self that determines what polarity results from the catalyst. I am someone who struggle to like pop music not because of the emotions but because of the ideas cultivated behind it. When I hear it I feel bad physically and energetically. When I think about pop music it seems pretty negative. Do you think I have or am the problem? Pop music is mainly about sex, power and self expression or peer acceptance. I have no problem with those emotions as they are certainly normal for most human beings but I just am not looking for that when listening to any music. So far I don't think I would be categorized under what you described. Pop music seems to cultivate ignorance, a lack of effort into any step of the music creation process, a tendancy to priorize fame, money, fast and cheap production, quantity over quality and great disrespect for the many geniuses that have worked hard all their life to further advance mankind knowledge of the many aspects of music. Since the days mankind has discovered music some people have brought immense contributions to instruments crafting quality and features, composing techniques or pushing the boundaries and limits of music genres and it has been an ever complexifying structure toward greatness. But since pop music exist it seems like it's going backward and the quality criterias are constantly going downward. The more it goes the less people are involved and the less they care, the less instruments are used, the less lyrics have meaning and the less people are aware of the existence of quality music. In the 60s-70s radio used to play what people thought was good until MTV showed up and it became about visuals and sexy looking girls dancing and radio started to decide what would be popular. Now few people make the difference between what is popular and what is good. Being that good is a really subjective thing, I notice how people who doesn't make the difference are simply not aware that there are other kind of musics than what is thrown at them by the radios. Of course most people just don't listen to that much music but the fact that the target audience for radios are the people who really just aren't that much into music seems to indicate that their priority is money. I have studied at a music school and I think I can safely say that those who have music as one of their interests whether they like classic, jazz, rock, funk, blues, metal or else all agree on the fact that pop music is a downgrade from any other genre. Even though they are not all my cup of tea, they all have my respect and I think after that it really comes down to preferences of what you want as an interaction with music as some musics are made to energize the heart, some are made to energize the mind and some to energize the body. I like when I can find all three of them in one genre but I totally understand how some people just prefer one of those aspects in particular and don't like the others to be stimulated by music and prefer an other medium. It is simply a tendancy and I can say I have liked many albums from bands that really aren't pop that have tried a more catchy or radio-friendly approach. But overseeing it's evolution from the creation of pop it really seems to be more harmful to the music industry than anything else. There may be positive effects as the bands who do make a living out of their work have to do the best they can to remain there but the fact remains that fewer people can make a living out of it. Now unless you make 3 minutes catchy songs with a cool looking attitude there is really few hope that you will be considered by music distribution companies. Unless you come from the US or UK it is easier to make money by doing covers or doing replicas of popular bands. Where I live that's almost all there is. Maybe that's not as obvious for someone who lives in those big economic centers. I think I am blessed to be able to know how to search and find good music and that I can listen to what I want but if I didn't knew how to I would end up partaking in the what seems to be the destruction of the music industry. I am actually really surprised how much good music continues to come out but from what I see most of the best bands I know just don't make a living from their music and it is a shame because they deserve to be rewarded for such hard work. I really try to see both sides of the coin but I've been really much in contact with music and even though I try to stay open minded I have never succeeded at liking pop music. Even country which I disliked all my life I have succeeded at finding something that I like at some point. I think there is good and bad in everything but I don't find positive things to say about pop music except that it can be positive catalyst. I have liked a couple of michael jackson songs which I think is pop but really when I see how much the visual aspect of this kind music takes so much space it's not something that's gonna end up on my playlist often and I'm not even sure it can still be considered pop as pop has come a long way downward since he was popular. But he is an excellent exemlple that even among pop music the quality of composition has deteriorated significantly because his songs really groove and are very melodic and you don't find this kind of quality pop today. So yes when I think about pop music in general I have a pretty dark picture of it. According to you am I the problem or is my idea of it really distorted? Have I a problem to process something? Do I miss a catalyst? Of course I can still find love for the individuals but the fact remains that even though the sound coming from the speaker is not STS it seems like their work is done out of ignorance or really self centered. Even if I try to see it in a positive way it just seems to me like pop music is neither done out of love and neither out of wisdom. Maybe it is done out of humor to the creator. Maybe it is done so that some people learn to let some people do whatever they want out of STO catalyst. Maybe the universe needs to explore the infinite opposite of quality to create a chain of reaction to explore infinite quality.
04-29-2016, 12:17 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2016, 03:49 PM by Plenum.
Edit Reason: edited quotation for brevity
)
(04-28-2016, 11:36 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: I am someone who struggle to like pop music not because of the emotions but because of the ideas cultivated behind it. When I hear it I feel bad physically and energetically. When I think about pop music it seems pretty negative. Do you think I have or am the problem? I don't think you are wrong about it promoting love of the material. HOLLYWOOD exists to program and control our minds, sell us products make us slaves to corperations and vanity, distract us as Ra would say. It's straight up manipulation. Some musicians and Prince was one of them do try to interject some light into the mix. There is a great Lauren Hill thing going around right now. She is super deep, beautifully spiritual, and used/uses her music and name to minister in many ways. I can't post a picture for some reason but it goes " we need Lauren Hill for this generation imagine all the girls chanting "how you gonna win, when you ain't right within" instead of "my pussys on fleek". Music can be used to lead but unfortunately most leads no where. not necissarily STS but unpolarized for sure. (04-24-2016, 05:36 AM)GentleWanderer Wrote: Indeed he was a genius and a very advanced soul, but do you think he's STO and if so has he reached the 51% threshold ? Personally, no. "Prince has always been a meanie. He's just a big meanie. He's always been not nice to me." -Michael Jackson https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/c..._telegram/
04-29-2016, 01:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2016, 03:47 PM by Plenum.
Edit Reason: edited quotation for brevity
)
(04-28-2016, 11:36 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: I am someone who struggle to like pop music not because of the emotions but because of the ideas cultivated behind it. When I hear it I feel bad physically and energetically. When I think about pop music it seems pretty negative. Do you think I have or am the problem? I think you expect others to be where you are at in your exploration of music. I also think what you dislike more than the industry is the people and what they can like. It makes money because it is what the people desire. If the music industry was as you want it, then maybe music would simply have a much lesser place in people's lives and they wouldn't develop an interest for it nor begin their exploration of it. I think the music industry reflects it's audience and what they resonate with, you can not resonate with it yourself and seek a more complex and profound exploration of the potential of music for yourself. So are you distorted? well a good hint is that you are not feeling love which indicates that love is being distorted. But I do get how you feel, I feel intense disgust whenever I look at rocks and the total waste of potential being used into something that is unmoving. Infinite intelligence of infinite rock-ness is a complete waste in term of quality of experience.
04-29-2016, 01:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2016, 03:44 PM by Plenum.
Edit Reason: edited quotation for brevity
)
(04-28-2016, 11:36 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: I am someone who struggle to like pop music not because of the emotions but because of the ideas cultivated behind it. When I hear it I feel bad physically and energetically. When I think about pop music it seems pretty negative. Do you think I have or am the problem? I understand that, as a previous 'music elitist', I know all about these concepts precisely. It's big in the metal community to hate on any pop music or mainstream culture. However, I would contend that "pop music" isn't actually what most people presume it to be, and maybe my understanding as a musician has taken some of the weight off the labels. For example, Iron Maiden could be considered pop music. Albeit with distorted guitars, fast drums and intense vocals, but it is none-the-less pop music in that it was not only a major popular icon, but it uses many pop music conventions, dynamics and 'hooks'. All of the same elements in pop music are present in classic rock, albeit in a different form. Look at the history of pop music before the 90's and you'll see it's basically just proto-rock or some manner of folk/cultural music. Disco was pop music, again in a different form. The Beatles were pop music. Not to mention, there is lots of 'mainstream' music, especially in classic rock, that defies the "2 and a half minutes of hooks" formula. The fact is that what you are talking about can exist in ANY genre, that is, shallow or materialistic or egotistical ideas. Blues, jazz and the like has plenty of its own pretentiousness. Metal most definitely does. What it is about big mainstream music though is not just that it is oriented towards these concepts in many cases, but it is highly repetitive and it is the repetition which makes it 'stick in your head'. So, by all means you could view some songs as being like brainwashing, however music is a huge industry and there is everything from the basement, solo artist to the big company performer and you can find every part of the spectrum in every part of every genre. Of course, it's less common for a big company performer to be really original and have most creative control, but that depends on the force of the individual it seems and the company they get involved with. I don't think they're universal. There is a guy at work who plays this kind of music all the time and it's not that it is in itself terrible but he plays the same things all the time and they're so repetitive that you feel like you're fighting for original thought. However, that sort of thing is alleviated by not listening to it every goddamn day.
04-29-2016, 03:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2016, 03:42 PM by Plenum.
Edit Reason: edited quotation for brevity
)
(04-29-2016, 01:25 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I think you expect others to be where you are at in your exploration of music. I also think what you dislike more than the industry is the people and what they can like. It makes money because it is what the people desire. If the music industry was as you want it, then maybe music would simply have a much lesser place in people's lives and they wouldn't develop an interest for it nor begin their exploration of it. I don't expect anything. I just don't like that what is encouraged are downward criterias and that exist only since pop music exist. You are wrong it doesn't make money because it is what people desire, instead the desire has been manufactured to be money effective and is brainwashed into people believing that it is what they desire. It was not that way before. If that would have been what people want pop music would have existed since the caveman days. It would have been invented before any other genre. But centuries of music prove that to be wrong. You seem to think I want people to listen to prog but really I don't care that they don't like what I like, I care that people slowly destroy music. Having been to a music school I observed how that affect people into believing they cannot afford to do what they want and instead must do what makes money. That is what bothers me.
04-29-2016, 03:42 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2016, 03:45 PM by Plenum.
Edit Reason: edited quotation for brevity
)
(04-29-2016, 01:48 PM)Aion Wrote: I understand that, as a previous 'music elitist', I know all about these concepts precisely. It's big in the metal community to hate on any pop music or mainstream culture. I agree and what I am talking about definitely relate to every genres, like I said there is good and bad in everything. I am simply saddened that those who try and do their best cannot make a living out of it.
04-29-2016, 07:32 PM
(04-25-2016, 12:35 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: I actually think there is some safe ground to walk on here, as long as it is not from the foundations of consensus reality. Like I said, "it is equally valid and serves it's purpose on the grander stage". I do acknowledge that I have been careless with my lazy response though. (04-25-2016, 12:35 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: It's probably good to point out that Prince had some music which I feel relied on some lower triad sexual distortions. Yes there are some interesting parallels there! I also think it is worth pointing out that just before the West intervened in Syria, Madonna made an instagram comment, exclaiming "US Stay out of Syria!" http://www.albawaba.com/entertainment/ma...ria-518677
04-29-2016, 07:44 PM
(04-29-2016, 01:48 PM)Aion Wrote: There is a guy at work who plays this kind of music all the time and it's not that it is in itself terrible but he plays the same things all the time and they're so repetitive that you feel like you're fighting for original thought. However, that sort of thing is alleviated by not listening to it every goddamn day. "...I was saying that mainstream culture, umm was becoming repetitive. Umm, was not having original ideas, would no longer be capable of coming up with a performance let alone a threepenny opera." - Alan Moore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpajFQEC...873.023773 Right, the gloves are off! Now where did I put my Superman costume... |
|