Is the Islamic Allah a social memory complex?

[darklight]

Since muslims sees Allah as the one infinite Creator, it´s more likely that Allah is a 5th or 6th density Confederation (or Orion?) based social memory complex.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Since muslims sees Allah as the one infinite Creator, it´s more likely that Allah is a 5th or 6th density Confederation (or Orion?) based social memory complex.

Well, from the Ra materials, there's only one stray reference to Islam at all. Back in 2.2, Ra was discussing how he contacted the Pharaoh Akhenaten, who attempted to bring the Law of One to Egypt:

However, this entity’s beliefs were accepted by very few. His priests gave lip service only, without the spiritual distortion towards seeking. The peoples continued in their beliefs. When this entity was no longer in this density, again the polarized beliefs in the many gods came into their own and continued so until the one known as Muhammad delivered the peoples into a more intelligible distortion of mind/body/spirit relationships.

So I tend to take that as meaning Mohammed (and\or whoever contacted him) were deliberately trying to spread the LOO and again introduce the idea of there being a single unified Creator to the Middle East. But beyond that? Who knows.

Doing a bit of Googling, though... it does look like Q'uo spoke on the subject a few times. Skimming over them, she seems to class Islam as being roughly on par with Christianity and Buddhism and other major religions, aside from noting that Islam is strongly masculine in its energies. She also refers to Allah as a "thought-form" at one point, which would also suggest that Allah didn't originate as an independent 5D or 6D being.

But that's about all I can dig up on the subject. Speaking personally, I'd say pretty much all of the monotheistic god-concepts (Yahweh, Allah, Brahman, etc) are attempts at being representative of The Creator rather than being based on a specific entity. But, of course, it would also be relatively easy for a 5D or 6D entity to then imitate/represent any of those god-concepts as well, either for good or ill.

[darklight]

So I tend to take that as meaning Mohammed (and\or whoever contacted him) were deliberately trying to spread the LOO and again introduce the idea of there being a single unified Creator to the Middle East.  But beyond that?  Who knows.  

It is known that muhammad visited many times a cave to contact an angel, it was Gabriel according the quran. I understood that 5D negative beings are living in caves http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=78 (87.7)

and are also be able to transport themselves as a physical vehicle or as a thought form (less detectable since there are guardians).

There is a possibility that the Islam is STS Orion based.

[ada]

Seeing as these religious ideas are around for merely a couple thousands of years, sure, it's possible. It's not like it matters even a bit when you incarnate back from where you came to wander from, right?

[APeacefulWarrior]

It is known that muhammad visited many times a cave to contact an angel, it was Gabriel according the quran. I understood that 5D negative beings are living in caves (87.7)  and are also be able to transport themselves as a physical vehicle or as a thought form (less detectable since there are guardians).

There is a possibility that the Islam is STS Orion based.

Ra describes caves as being part of the density of wisdom.  That could apply to either positive or negative 5D entities.  And besides, if Islam was negative in foundation, then why did neither Ra nor Q'uo mention this?  Q'uo speaks fairly well of Islam when it's brought up.  For example:

Those who follow the Buddha, Jesus, the Christ, Zoroaster, Allah and his prophet Mohammed—may his name be blessed—have an infinite advantage in that they can take a shortcut to a state of mind, that [state of] mind being consciousness, in which faith becomes natural.

Q'uo apparently even has enough respect for Mohammed to use the traditional blessing which Muslims are supposed to speak whenever saying his name, and that's on top of including him on a list of many of the most prominent positive prophets\visionaries from ancient times. That's a pretty strong endorsement.

... oh, hey!  I just found a Q'uo transcript that directly addresses your questions.  (Man, I wish it was easier to search the Q'uo archives.)  It takes up much of the second half of the session, so it's too much to quote directly.  You'll probably want to read it yourself, but summarizing...

The Quran is a holy work, Mohammed was of Sixth Density origin, and he was aided by Gabriel, also 6D.   On the subject of Mohammed, she said that:

(He had) many experiences of the unity of all things and was desirous in a great extent to bring back this inspiration that those of its peoples might also be blessed as it was blessed.  Thus, the information that has been gathered in this holy work was that which was divinely inspired and though difficult to describe in the languages of the time, yet this entity set itself to this purpose and was single-minded in its pursuit of this mission. ... (T)his entity had dedicated its life purpose previous to the incarnation to working with those of its own kind, shall we say."

And when asked specifically about negative or specifically Orion influences upon the Quran, she said:

"As with all such efforts of light and service to others the power of the polarity puts forth an attraction and is, shall we say, noticed by those in the vicinity. There is often notice by those of the so-called Orion Empire that they be able to utilize the balancing efforts of this planet’s quarantine system to offer some form of their own information wherever possible and to make this offering to appear as the same as that which first attracted their notice.  Thus, with all such efforts there is some infiltration of the signal with other information at odd moments or targets of opportunity that exist in all entities that are mortal. Thus, all such inspirational information has this feature whereby there is attracted to it the balancing efforts by those of the so-called loyal opposition."

She then refused to comment in any more specific nature about any infiltrations that might have occurred, citing the Law of Confusion, and basically said that even the most divinely-inspired work is going to get mucked up by humans distorting things.

Well, TIL!  I didn't know such a comprehensive discussion of the subject was in Q'uo's archives.  Either way, it answers your questions pretty concretely.

[darklight]

It is known that muhammad visited many times a cave to contact an angel, it was Gabriel according the quran. I understood that 5D negative beings are living in caves (87.7)  and are also be able to transport themselves as a physical vehicle or as a thought form (less detectable since there are guardians).

There is a possibility that the Islam is STS Orion based.

Ra describes caves as being part of the density of wisdom.  That could apply to either positive or negative 5D entities.  And besides, if Islam was negative in foundation, then why did neither Ra nor Q'uo mention this?  Q'uo speaks fairly well of Islam when it's brought up.  For example:

Those who follow the Buddha, Jesus, the Christ, Zoroaster, Allah and his prophet Mohammed—may his name be blessed—have an infinite advantage in that they can take a shortcut to a state of mind, that [state of] mind being consciousness, in which faith becomes natural.

Q'uo apparently even has enough respect for Mohammed to use the traditional blessing which Muslims are supposed to speak whenever saying his name, and that's on top of including him on a list of many of the most prominent positive prophets\visionaries from ancient times.  That's a pretty strong endorsement.

... oh, hey!  I just found a Q'uo transcript that directly addresses your questions.  (Man, I wish it was easier to search the Q'uo archives.)  It takes up much of the second half of the session, so it's too much to quote directly.  You'll probably want to read it yourself, but summarizing...

The Quran is a holy work, Mohammed was of Sixth Density origin, and he was aided by Gabriel, also 6D.   On the subject of Mohammed, she said that:

(He had) many experiences of the unity of all things and was desirous in a great extent to bring back this inspiration that those of its peoples might also be blessed as it was blessed.  Thus, the information that has been gathered in this holy work was that which was divinely inspired and though difficult to describe in the languages of the time, yet this entity set itself to this purpose and was single-minded in its pursuit of this mission. ... (T)his entity had dedicated its life purpose previous to the incarnation to working with those of its own kind, shall we say."

And when asked specifically about negative or specifically Orion influences upon the Quran, she said:

"As with all such efforts of light and service to others the power of the polarity puts forth an attraction and is, shall we say, noticed by those in the vicinity. There is often notice by those of the so-called Orion Empire that they be able to utilize the balancing efforts of this planet’s quarantine system to offer some form of their own information wherever possible and to make this offering to appear as the same as that which first attracted their notice.  Thus, with all such efforts there is some infiltration of the signal with other information at odd moments or targets of opportunity that exist in all entities that are mortal. Thus, all such inspirational information has this feature whereby there is attracted to it the balancing efforts by those of the so-called loyal opposition."

She then refused to comment in any more specific nature about any infiltrations that might have occurred, citing the Law of Confusion, and basically said that even the most divinely-inspired work is going to get mucked up by humans distorting things.  

Well, TIL!  I didn't know such a comprehensive discussion of the subject was in Q'uo's archives.  Either way, it answers your questions pretty concretely.

After all, all is One seen from the perspective of STO.

[AnthroHeart]

Allah sounds more of an Egregore.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Just as an aside, it occurs to me that the so-called "Satanic Verses" Controversy could very easily have been one of those Orion intrusions that Q'uo alluded to. Since that's pretty much exactly what's claimed to have happened with one small bit of a Surah that Mohammed may or may not have actually said.

(TL;DR: Some claim Mohammed briefly endorsed three pagan deities commonly worshipped in Mecca at the time, directly contradicting the Quran's strict monotheism.)

But, of course, that's only speculation.

[Cyclops]

Questioner: Then Yahweh’s communications did not help or did not create what Yahweh wished for them to create. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The results of this interaction were quite mixed. Where the entities were of a vibrational sum characteristic which embraced oneness, the manipulations of Yahweh were very useful. Wherein the entities of free will had chosen a less positively oriented configuration of sum total vibratory complex, those of the Orion group were able for the first time to make serious inroads upon the consciousness of the planetary complex.

18.25 Questioner: Can you tell me specifically what allowed the most serious of these inroads to be made by the Orion group?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the final full question.

Specifically those who are strong, intelligent, etc., have a temptation to feel different from those who are less intelligent and less strong. This is a distorted perception of oneness with other-selves. It allowed the Orion group to form the concept of the holy war, as you may call it. This is a seriously distorted perception. There were many of these wars of a destructive nature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad
http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/arti.../t125/e490

people argue for the spiritual inner jihad, and the outer jihad(conquest), muhammad the messenger of islam was heavily involved in conquest and holy war basically, even so far as to take human slaves. the spread of islam was by war, just like christianity in the old days.

Quran (2:191-193)- "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."


Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

 there are endless verses in the hadith and the quran which advocate holy war until people are converted or killed.

and also the concept of tawhid "Oneness" seems like an orion distorted version of the all inclusive Law of One. Tawhid is the backbone of islam. it describes god as separate from creation, alone and transcendent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawhid


http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage//index...E&Id=90180
"Saying that the universe exists in Allaah is a statement of disbelief and falsehood and it is contradictory to the creed of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaa'ah. Similarly, saying that all the souls [or spirits] are a part of Allaah is a statement of disbelief, Glorified and Exalted is Allaah! High above (the great falsehood) that they say.



Shaykh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah may Allaah have mercy upon him said: 'Allaah is separate from His Creatures, and His Creatures are separate from him and there is no transfer that means the emptying of a space and the filling of another, as He is The One Who is separate from His Creatures.' "

the most unforgivable sin in islam is shirk.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_%28Islam%29

if you search around, the current shia and sunni interpretations of islam would view the Law of One as pantheism and if you search around alot of muslims would comment this is a form of shirk. only sufi muslims which are the smallest minority believe to something close to the Law of One that Ra mentions.



the below conversion is most likely analogous to what Muhammad went through when receiving the communication.

Questioner: Can you tell me the origin of the Ten Commandments?

Ra: I am Ra. The origin of these commandments follows the law of negative entities impressing information upon positively oriented mind/body/spirit complexes. The information attempted to copy or ape positivity while retaining negative characteristics.
16.16 Questioner: Was this done by the Orion group?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
16.17 Questioner: What was their purpose in doing this?
Ra: I am Ra. The purpose of the Orion group, as mentioned before, is conquest and enslavement. This is done by finding and establishing an elite and causing others to serve the elite through various devices such as the laws you mention and others given by this entity.
16.18 Questioner: Was the recipient of the laws… of the Ten Commandments positively or negatively oriented?
Ra: The recipient was one of extreme positivity, thus accounting for some of the pseudo-positive characteristics of the information received. As with contacts which are not successful, this entity, vibratory complex, Moishe, did not remain a credible influence among those who had first heard the philosophy of One and this entity was removed from this third-density vibratory level in a lessened or saddened state, having lost what you may call the honor and faith with which he had begun the conceptualization of the Law of One and the freeing of those who were of his tribes, as they were called at that time/space.
16.19 Questioner: If this entity was positively oriented, how was the Orion group able to contact him?
Ra: I am Ra. This was an intensive, shall we say, battleground between positively oriented forces of Confederation origin and negatively oriented sources. The one called Moishe was open to impression and received the Law of One in its most simple form. However, the information became negatively oriented due to his people’s pressure to do specific physical things in the third-density planes. This left the entity open for the type of information and philosophy of a self-service nature.
16.20 Questioner: It would be unlike an entity fully aware of the knowledge of the Law of One to ever say “Thou shalt not.” Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

My opinion from everything I read so far is that orion basically took over the religion, muhammad went on the offensive to spread the orion version because of his desires and his people's desires.

http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jih...n-in-islam

old peaceful verses of the quran are suddenly null and void with newer more violent verses replacing them, sanctioned and given to muhammad from allah, which I think at this point was orion.

26.7 Questioner: Which has more of the Law of One in it, the Old Testament or the New Testament?

Ra: I am Ra. Withdrawing from each of the collections of which you speak the portions having to do with the Law of One, the content is approximately equal. However, the so-called Old Testament has a larger amount of negatively influenced material, as you would call it.
26.8 Questioner: Can you tell me about what percentage is Orion-influenced in both the Old and the New Testaments?

Ra: We prefer that this be left to the discretion of those who seek the Law of One. We are not speaking in order to judge. Such statements would be construed by some of those who may read this material as judgmental. We can only suggest a careful reading and inward digestion of the contents. The understandings will become obvious.

Q'uo Sunday Meditation March 25, 2007

The problems resulting from the Koran are the same problems resulting from a good, solid reading of the Old Testament and those two works should be considered together when forming an opinion concerning these matters, for there is much in all the literature, not only of the Koran and the Old Testament but in those books and writings which did not make it into the final versions of those sacred works but had a good deal of information along those lines to share about this creation of the “One God” which, instead of being the one infinite Creator, was a kind of artifact made up of those of one of the groups that were guardians of your planet in an attempt to create a more spiritually capable human being.

Those whom they altered genetically, prior to placing them upon this planet in times gone by, they felt the need to follow. It is ironic, indeed, my friends, that those in your Middle East—the followers of Jesus, the followers of Yahweh, and the followers of Allah—are in a state of mortal combat.

We would suggest that it would be helpful to look for the positive gifts of the one known as Mohammed in the mysticism of the Sufi’s, just as one may most likely find the most positive aspects of the Old Testament writing and prophets in that small circle of entities who have worked with the Kabala to develop the Tree of Life. In both cases the outer husks of religion, the dogma, the exclusiveness, and so forth, have been cast aside to get to the heart of the fruit of spirituality which is the same in any religion or system of worship.

so the current sunni and shia dominated interpretations of islam i take to be basically worshiping the orion ideology since sufis are seen as infidels largely among the muslim world today.

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...#pid189883
older post of mine, contains a link to another thread that happened here where 2 muslims argued with each other that might have some info for this thread.

there is more I can dig up and post, the quran and hadiths list so many laws and controls on a person termed a muslim that often times is threatened with punishment in life and more punishments in the afterlife for disobeying them, if this isn't the classic orion theme, then i don't know what is.

[spero]

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. We will attempt to respond. The entity, Gabriel, was one of a number of entities that assisted in this transmission, being the focus of the effort, was one which worked with the entity known as Mohammed as this entity had dedicated its life purpose previous to the incarnation to working with those of its own kind, shall we say. Thus, the effort was put forth by those of the density of love and light in balance, that being six, working with those of the same vibratory level who had taken incarnation for the purpose of such a mission.

we are assuming the 6th density origin of gabriel and mohammed was positive. the other possibility is that it was the last ditched effort of negative 6d entities. makes the below quote somewhat interesting in this context

36.18 Questioner: Are there any examples of sixth-density negatively polarized Wanderers in our historical past?

Ra: I am Ra. This information could be harmful. We withhold it. Please attempt to view the entities about you as part of the Creator. We can explain no further.

thanks for the interesting info cyclops. my above conjecture is just covering the flipside of the conversation or playing devils advocate as it were. we assume positive intent and orion infiltration giving a distorted message. perhaps the converse is true and negative content was the goal and and confederation contact provided the positive distortions e.g sufi theology or interpretations. in the absence of a clearer answer its interesting to see it from either angle.

[Billy]

Seth had this to say about religion, in which he briefly talks about 'Mohammedanism'.  I don't understand what Seth is getting at.

The exterior religious dramas are of course imperfect representations of the ever unfolding interior spiritual realities. The various personages, the gods and prophets within religious history—these absorb the mass inner projections thrown out by those inhabiting a given time span.

Such religious dramas focus, direct, and, hopefully, clarify aspects of inner reality that need to be physically represented.
These do not only appear within your own system. Many are also projected into other systems of reality. Religion per se, however, is always the external facade of inner reality. The primary spiritual existence alone gives meaning to the physical one. In the most real terms, religion should include all of the pursuits of man in his search for the nature of meaning and truth. Spirituality cannot be some isolated, specialized activity or characteristic.

Exterior religious dramas are important and valuable only to the extent that they faithfully reflect the nature of inner, private spiritual existence. To the extent that a man feels that his religion expresses such inner experience, he will feel it valid. Most religions per se, however, set up as permissible certain groups of experiences while denying others. They limit themselves by applying the principles of the sacredness of life only to your own species, and often to highly limited groups within it.

At no time will any given church be able to express the inner experience of all individuals. At no time will any church find itself in a position in which it can effectively curtail the inner experience of its members—it will only seem to do so. The forbidden experiences will simply be unconsciously expressed, gather strength and vitality, and rise up to form a counter projection which will then form another, newer exterior religious drama.

The dramas themselves do express certain inner realities, and they serve as surface reminders to those who do not trust direct experience with the inner self. They will take the symbols as reality. When they discover that this is not so, they feel betrayed. Christ spoke in terms of the father and son because in your terms, at that time, this was the method used—the story He told to explain the relationship between the inner self and the physically alive individual. No new religion really startles anyone, for the drama has already been played subjectively.

What I have said, of course, applies as much to Buddha as it does to Christ: both accepted the inner projections and then tried to physically represent these. They were more, however, than the sum of those projections. This also should be understood. Mohammedanism fell far short. In this case the projections were of violence predominating. Love and kinship were secondary to what indeed amounted to baptism and communion through violence and blood.

In these continuous exterior religious dramas, the Hebrews played a strange role. Their idea of one god was not new to them. Many ancient religions held the belief of one god above all others. This god above all others was a far more lenient god, however, than the one the Hebrews followed. Many tribes believed, quite rightly, in the inner spirit that pervades each living thing. And they often referred to, say, the god in the tree, or the spirit in the flower. But they also accepted the reality of an overall spirit, of which these lesser spirits were but a part. All worked together harmoniously.

The Hebrews conceived of an overseer god, an angry and just and sometimes cruel god; and many sects denied, then, the idea that other living beings beside man possessed inner spirits. The earlier beliefs represented a far better representation of inner reality, in which man, observing nature, let nature speak and reveal its secrets.

The Hebrew god, however, represented a projection of a far different kind. Man was growing more and more aware of the ego, of a sense of power over nature, and many of the later miracles are presented in such a way that nature is forced to behave differently than in its usual mode. God becomes man’s ally against nature.

The early Hebrew god became a symbol of man’s unleashed ego. God behaved exactly as an enraged child would, had he those powers, sending thunder and lightning and fire against his enemies, destroying them. Man’s emerging ego therefore brought forth emotional and psychological problems and challenges. The sense of of separation from nature grew. Nature became a tool to use against others.

[APeacefulWarrior]

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. We will attempt to respond. The entity, Gabriel, was one of a number of entities that assisted in this transmission, being the focus of the effort, was one which worked with the entity known as Mohammed as this entity had dedicated its life purpose previous to the incarnation to working with those of its own kind, shall we say. Thus, the effort was put forth by those of the density of love and light in balance, that being six, working with those of the same vibratory level who had taken incarnation for the purpose of such a mission.

we are assuming the 6th density origin of gabriel and mohammed was positive. the other possibility is that it was the last ditched effort of negative 6d entities. makes the below quote somewhat interesting in this context

You really think Q'uo wouldn't have mentioned it, if Islam had a fundamentally negative foundation? Why would she repeatedly refer to Mohammed in the same breath as Jesus, the Buddha, etc, if there were such a radical difference between the creation of Islam and the other classical religions? I mean, in one of the quotes I posted, she said "As with all such efforts of light and service to others..." and was, in context, clearly referring to Mohammed's work.

As I see it, Islam's real problems began after the death of its founder, much like Christianity. There was a successional dispute IMMEDIATELY after Mohammed died, which was the beginning of the split between the Sunni and Shia that then guaranteed Islam would be dis-unified going forward. Despite Mohammed trying to get people to focus on the one God and on community-building, just as soon as he was out of the picture human greed took over and started its destructive work.

And the real shame of it is that the Quran actually has loads of restrictions on when and how war can be waged, along with having laws on the treatment of POWs which were nearly as progressive as the Geneva Conventions eventually would be. But of course those started to be ignored very quickly as well, by those who seek to use religion as a justification for misdeeds.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Seth had this to say about religion, in which he briefly talks about 'Mohammedanism'.  I don't understand what Seth is getting at.

You posted a long quote, so I'm not entirely sure which parts you were having trouble with. However, my basic summary of it would be something like:

"Religions like Christianity and Buddhism begin with one person having a transcendent inner experience where they connect with the universe and glimpse its larger workings. They wish to communicate their revelations, but as enlightenment cannot be shared or communicated, they are forced to compromise greatly in their attempts to tell others what they learned. Their messages therefore take the form of symbolic dramas relying on Earthly metaphors to try to illustrate higher principles. The problem is, a great many of those who hear their teachings lack the wisdom and insight to understand the difference between metaphors and higher truth, leading them to take the teachings completely literally and thus totally missing the point. Ie, Jesus called himself the Son of God to illustrate the Creator's role in overseeing all of us, but most of his followers took it so literally that they invented a huge chunk of mythology attempting to justify Christ as the literal biologic son of the Creator."

And extrapolating a bit, this basic confusion between metaphor and reality then opens the door for negative influences -attracted to any attempt to communicate a positive spiritual message- to even further distort the teachings by encouraging those who lack sufficient love or wisdom to focus exclusively on the selfish and materialistic aspects of the teachings. So you end up with people who are absolutely zealous followers of a religion who none the less behave in ways almost entirely contrary to what its founder intended, and all the while convinced theirs is the one true faith.

[Billy]

Seth had this to say about religion, in which he briefly talks about 'Mohammedanism'.  I don't understand what Seth is getting at.

You posted a long quote, so I'm not entirely sure which parts you were having trouble with.  However, my basic summary of it would be something like:

"Religions like Christianity and Buddhism begin with one person having a transcendent inner experience where they connect with the universe and glimpse its larger workings.  They wish to communicate their revelations, but as enlightenment cannot be shared or communicated, they are forced to compromise greatly in their attempts to tell others what they learned.  Their messages therefore take the form of symbolic dramas relying on Earthly metaphors to try to illustrate higher principles.  The problem is, a great many of those who hear their teachings lack the wisdom and insight to understand the difference between metaphors and higher truth, leading them to take the teachings completely literally and thus totally missing the point.  Ie, Jesus called himself the Son of God to illustrate the Creator's role in overseeing all of us, but most of his followers took it so literally that they invented a huge chunk of mythology attempting to justify Christ as the literal biologic son of the Creator."

And extrapolating a bit, this basic confusion between metaphor and reality then opens the door for negative influences -attracted to any attempt to communicate a positive spiritual message- to even further distort the teachings by encouraging those who lack sufficient love or wisdom to focus exclusively on the selfish and materialistic aspects of the teachings.  So you end up with people who are absolutely zealous followers of a religion who none the less behave in ways almost entirely contrary to what its founder intended, and all the while convinced theirs is the one true faith.

Seth talks about Mohammedanism falling far short, of what though?  It seems to me that Seth is saying that Mohammed's teachings were misunderstood and that rather than being used primarily for the purposes of love and kinship, they were used predominantly for violence.  I don't understand what else he would be referring to when he speaks about projections, in the case of Mohammed's time.  I'm ignorant about the historical context of the foundations of Islam, but from the little I've read (from what you have posted in the past actually), it was a very difficult set of circumstances with much conflict and political drama. From that, I take that the peoples projections of that time and place were of a predominantly violent nature, which was the lens through which Mohammed's teachings were viewed.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Seth talks about Mohammedanism falling far short, of what though?  It seems to me that Seth is saying that Mohammed's teachings were misunderstood and that rather than being used primarily for the purposes of love and kinship, they were used predominantly for violence.  I don't understand what else he would be referring to when he speaks about projections, in the case of Mohammed's time.  I'm ignorant about the historical context of the foundations of Islam, but from the little I've read (from what you have posted in the past actually), it was a very difficult set of circumstances with much conflict and political drama.  From that, I take that the peoples projections of that time and place were of a predominantly violent nature, which was the lens through which Mohammed's teachings were viewed.

I'd tend to agree. It was a very violent time. One of Mohammed's basic goals appears to have been to try to unify a chunk of land which had basically been nothing but feuding\warring tribes with a handful of relatively safe and civilized cities otherwise. Much different circumstances than, say, Jesus, who was in an area which the Romans controlled and therefore kept fairly peaceful. (As long as one didn't anger the Romans, anyway.)

But yeah, most of the nastier elements of modern Islam aren't in the Quran, they're in stuff that was written later - the various Hadith contributed by other Muslims, which could be roughly compared to the Hebrew Talmud. I haven't read any of them, but I understand that also like the Talmud, they tend to run the gamut from inspired material to rather hateful material.

And that the Muslim community almost immediately fractured after Mohammed died, due to some elements looking to seize power, really put the entire enterprise on its back foot. I'm sometimes a bit surprised at how successful the early Islamic empire was, given how much internal strife existed. For a few hundred years (900-1200CE, give or take) it really was one of the most overall cultured, learned, and successful societies in the world.

My one hope, long-term, is that perhaps the current violence is a "phase" that Islam will eventually grow out of, so to speak. After all, the list of Christian atrocities between 1100-1600CEish are too numerous to mention, but eventually it got its act together and quit launching holy wars and inquisitions. I'd like to think it's possible for the current Middle East to settle down as well, given more time.

[BlatzAdict]

i think all of our history is lies,


Based upon what I've come to know, christ used to be spelled kryst and ala used to be part of the same word.

kryst-ala.
and i heard it was supposed to be based off of the first audible sounds in the universe, ka Ra ya sa ta ah la.

then i thought of crystals, which would be the current incarnation of the word. i do a lot of study into etymology and with words. did you know all of the original letters come from parts of the fruit of life?

i think the Law of One was put in the atlantean tablets, and then the aggregation of the information, time and ignorance created them to be the religions we know today.

[Plenum]

Since muslims sees Allah as the one infinite Creator, it´s more likely that Allah is a 5th or 6th density Confederation (or Orion?) based social memory complex.

you're probably looking for an absolute answer.

My feeling is that you can reverse engineer a source-text to identify it's density of origin.  Or at least make a good guess at it.

Or - think of it this way.  What 'moves' something through the densities, in terms of development and progress?  It's the level of conscious densation of Thoughts, both in seeking, as well as expression.  That then becomes the stamp or fingerprint when communications are transferred through a 'channel'.

[herald]

It seems that the question and all of the answers do not register that "allah"... is a word -NOT A NAME! This is crucial to understanding how the term "allah" is used.
The term "allah" can no more be associated with the term "Yaweh" than the term "Fred" can be associated with the word "potato".
This understanding is so basic the Bush administration was forced to disclose that the Smallpox attacks of 2001 on the Senate Building were carried out by non-muslims. The note stated that "Allah is great". The word allah would not remain untranslated into the english language word to which it corresponds: "god"-  Please stop using this word incorrectly.

[Billy]

Has anyone here actually read the Koran?  All I really know about the Koran are those verses that people use to add validity to their own perspective and bias.  Those who see Islam as a religion of peace, they cite those verses that are peaceful, and those who think of it as a religion of violence, cite the violent verses.  As a whole though, I don't know what kind of 'feeling' the book has.  It seems that few people have actually read it all the way through and put in the effort to uncover its origins and all the context surrounding it.  Not surprising, considering how difficult such an undertaking would be. 

This topic is without a doubt one of the most sensitive and important of our time, and with so much being said about it, it is hard not to get bogged down in mountains of information.  How much of it is true or even relevant though?  I don't know why we are seeing, what I perceive to be at least, such violence coming from and in the Muslim world.  Is it a retaliation to imperialism and the horrors of foreign politics, is it religion, is it circumstance like war and poverty, or is it a mix of all of these factors?  I truly do not know, and finer minds than mine don't seem to really know either.  People have their opinions though, but the problem is that many of these opinions are influenced by prejudice, which always gets in the way of truth.  I know I have my prejudices and I do my best to not let them influence me or at least realize when they are.  We have to acknowledge that there is a problem though.  Without doing so, how we improve?     

[Cyclops]

Has anyone here actually read the Koran?  All I really know about the Koran are those verses that people use to add validity to their own perspective and bias.  Those who see Islam as a religion of peace, they cite those verses that are peaceful, and those who think of it as a religion of violence, cite the violent verses.  As a whole though, I don't know what kind of 'feeling' the book has.  It seems that few people have actually read it all the way through and put in the effort to uncover its origins and all the context surrounding it.  Not surprising, considering how difficult such an undertaking would be. 

This topic is without a doubt one of the most sensitive and important of our time, and with so much being said about it, it is hard not to get bogged down in mountains of information.  How much of it is true or even relevant though?  I don't know why we are seeing, what I perceive to be at least, such violence coming from and in the Muslim world.  Is it a retaliation to imperialism and the horrors of foreign politics, is it religion, is it circumstance like war and poverty, or is it a mix of all of these factors?  I truly do not know, and finer minds than mine don't seem to really know either.  People have their opinions though, but the problem is that many of these opinions are influenced by prejudice, which always gets in the way of truth.  I know I have my prejudices and I do my best to not let them influence me or at least realize when they are.  We have to acknowledge that there is a problem though.  Without doing so, how we improve?     

Forgive me, i'm going to post isis's(not the user) point of view(an article) here just for information purposes.

4 pages
http://i.imgur.com/CZim0b8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UzJuPJb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DN1zTpU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/L59Tgn7.jpg

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=3022
this is a thread i mentioned before, if you want 2 users who were here before, I think they both were muslims. Focus on unity100's and crown's debate in that thread. Unity100 is an ex muslim who said he read the quran thoroughly around 4 times. I also get the impression he studied the hadith and other islamic texts as a natural thing a muslim would do. Anyways I am pretty biased here like your post says and I will actually go ahead and admit it. As always like Ra or Q'uo or whoever says it you have your own judgement/discernment at your disposal always.

[darklight]

Muhammad was probably STO, but after his death, the internal wars occured and many died due to the will of these elites. Orion had definitely a huge influence: power against power in separation is thier only concept.

[ada]

It seems that the question and all of the answers do not register that "allah"... is a word -NOT A NAME! This is crucial to understanding how the term "allah" is used.
The term "allah" can no more be associated with the term "Yaweh" than the term "Fred" can be associated with the word "potato".
This understanding is so basic the Bush administration was forced to disclose that the Smallpox attacks of 2001 on the Senate Building were carried out by non-muslims. The note stated that "Allah is great". The word allah would not remain untranslated into the english language word to which it corresponds: "god"-  Please stop using this word incorrectly.

So rather than saying I believe in God they create another "word" and then use that to favor themselves over others by that same God you and I believe in? That does not sound right. God has no name, nor a word, for god is within every particle of creation.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Actually, "Allah" is even simpler than that.  It is literally just "The God."  Al-Lah.  Although it's certainly taken on more name-like connotations over the centuries.  

As for reading the Quran, I've read large chunks at various points, such as when I took a history class on Islamic culture, although never cover to cover. (It is 800ish pages long...)  And like most ancient\classical holy books, I find it to be an interesting mixture of good spiritual advice, questionable self-aggrandizement, more mundane human stuff, and antiquated practices that really don't have too much applicability in the modern world.  Like, the prohibition on pork was really more a reflection of how little was understood about the science and toxicology of cooking.  They didn't know why pork so often caused people to get sick, so they banned it to be safe.  Pretty much the same as the Hebrew Kosher code.

A big problem with reading the Quran, though, is that it's only properly read in Arabic, a language which doesn't have direct ties to any of the other modern tongues like English or German.  Plus, it's written as poetry.  So translations of it are incredibly problematic, and become even moreso considering that certain groups - like the Saudis\Wahhabists - will produce translations which deliberately skew the text to fit their personal extremist interpretations.  And very often, "hit lists" of horrible quotes from the Quran turn out to be from very poor translations.

The only universal agreement in Quranic translations is that MUCH is lost in translation, no matter what.  Here are a couple good articles I've found about the problems.

Like as one example they discuss, the Arabic word "taqwa," which is commonly translated as "fear."  The problem is, the concept it embodies covers a wide range of meanings, such as fear, awareness, protectiveness, consciousness, and carefulness.  As I gather it, "taqwa" isn't fear in the wholly-negative sense one fears a bully or tyrant, but more like the fear a child has of punishment or just disappointment from their father. Love is still present.  So when English translations constantly say to "fear Allah," it creates a much more dark\negative vibe than was originally intended.  

If anyone is curious, from my own research, the Saheeh International Version (PDF) seems to be most-commonly cited as the best, or at least less-bad, English translation in terms of sticking to the source text without much ideological skew, and being clearly footnoted to explain translation choices.

[herald]

It seems that the question and all of the answers do not register that "allah"... is a word -NOT A NAME! This is crucial to understanding how the term "allah" is used.
The term "allah" can no more be associated with the term "Yaweh" than the term "Fred" can be associated with the word "potato".
This understanding is so basic the Bush administration was forced to disclose that the Smallpox attacks of 2001 on the Senate Building were carried out by non-muslims. The note stated that "Allah is great". The word allah would not remain untranslated into the english language word to which it corresponds: "god"-  Please stop using this word incorrectly.

So rather than saying I believe in God they create another "word" and then use that to favor themselves over others by that same God you and I believe in? That does not sound right. God has no name, nor a word, for god is within every particle of creation.

NOOOOOOOO!!! Sorry, Its like this: In French "oueff" means egg, in spanish "huevo" means egg, but in English "egg" means egg.
In French "Dieu" means God, in Spanish "Dios" means God, in English "God" means God. That doesn't mean that Spanish speaking people created a name for their god, "Dios" is just the word they use.