Is Ra Material occult oriented?
07-07-2017, 01:27 AM,
#1
Is Ra Material occult oriented?
Words like adept, The Great Way, Higher Self, magic etc. It seems Ra is incouraging the reader to engage in occult, hermetic knowledge and practise.

I know these techniques are not the most important. Central thoughts are unity, love, light, joy. Second important is meditation and service. It's after you are balanced by these central thoughts and distortions "techniques /.../ become quite significant. However, the universe, its mystery unbroken, is one. Always begin and end in the Creator, not in technique."

However I see much material akin to occult. Maybe because of Don's questions.
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07-07-2017, 01:29 AM,
#2
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
There are many paths up the mountain. . .

Time will tell.  It always does.
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07-07-2017, 04:50 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-07-2017, 05:11 AM by YinYang.)
#3
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
loostudent Wrote:However I see much material akin to occult. Maybe because of Don's questions.

Don was obviously well read in the occult, many of his questions reflected that, and the Ra material corroborates Hermeticism nicely, yet it also corroborates many other "lost" texts and traditions, like the Upanishads, as another example.

Quote:Ra: We hope to offer you a somewhat different slant upon the information which is always and ever the same.

I guess the truth can never stay hidden, Hermeticism just went underground when the church gained dominance.
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07-07-2017, 05:29 AM,
#4
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
(07-07-2017, 01:27 AM)loostudent Wrote:  Words like adept, The Great Way, Higher Self, magic etc. It seems Ra is incouraging the reader to engage in occult, hermetic knowledge and practise.

it's definitely delving into the inner pathways of the self.

The tarot material, for example, is aimed at those vibrating blue-ray and above.

(07-07-2017, 01:27 AM)loostudent Wrote:  However I see much material akin to occult. Maybe because of Don's questions.

I personally think it goes beyond the questions, and taps into the nature of one's seeking.

The Questions and Answers are just the outermost (and manifest) expression of one's level of seeking.
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07-07-2017, 08:12 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-07-2017, 08:31 AM by Nau7ik.)
#5
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
The Ra material doesn't deny the occult as a means of "getting up the mountain." I wouldn't call the Ra material occult though. It doesn't teach magical technique or ritual. (Ra said "Begin and end in the Creator, not technique.") In fact, in Book 4 the group chose to explore the archetypal mind through the Tarot, rather than embark on the white magickal path. I think they made the right choice going with the Tarot, as it is more resonant with those who can appreciate the material. If they had chosen white magic, then I think the Law of One would be less attractive and less understandable.
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07-07-2017, 08:24 AM,
#6
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
Religious people would call it occult because it says how we are not separate from God. They say that we're weak and God is strong.

Some religious people think that having an opinion and questioning the bible/preachers is sin and you'll go to hell for that.

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07-07-2017, 08:44 AM,
#7
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
(07-07-2017, 01:29 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  There are many paths up the mountain. . .
Yes. But some tolls are high ...
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07-07-2017, 09:03 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-07-2017, 09:07 AM by Infinite.)
#8
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
Naturally. In the really occult/esoteric/spirituality are synonymous. The Truth is one. The destiny is one. But the paths are infinite.
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07-07-2017, 09:29 AM,
#9
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
(07-07-2017, 08:12 AM)Nau7ik Wrote:  The Ra material doesn't deny the occult as a means of "getting up the mountain." I wouldn't call the Ra material occult though. It doesn't teach magical technique or ritual /.../
Occult is not only ritual magic (there are some instructions of this kind also in Ra Material). This is only one part of it. You have also more theoretical/speculative teachings, tarot study, alchemy, theurgy ... The word adept comes directly from occultism.
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07-07-2017, 12:29 PM,
#10
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
(07-07-2017, 09:29 AM)loostudent Wrote:  
(07-07-2017, 08:12 AM)Nau7ik Wrote:  The Ra material doesn't deny the occult as a means of "getting up the mountain." I wouldn't call the Ra material occult though. It doesn't teach magical technique or ritual /.../
Occult is not only ritual magic (there are some instructions of this kind also in Ra Material). This is only one part of it. You have also more theoretical/speculative teachings, tarot study, alchemy, theurgy ... The word adept comes directly from occultism.

Sure, but let's be clear: "occult" in today's context largely means "spiritual technology not approved by mainstream religion".  There's a lot of parts of Catholic liturgy, ritual, theology that would very, very clearly classify as "occult" if they weren't so accepted by society as "ok".  In fact, that is precisely one of the objections to catholicism that many of the most staunch protestants hold, tracing some Catholic practices back to the Roman religion ("pontiff" was an official religious office in the republic, for example).

I would say that Ra and the confederation are versed in occult concepts and employ them when they yield more light than heat (there are also instances where they clearly go out of their way to avoid occult overtones)  But the key point here: I would not characterize their approach as trying to hide knowledge as most true-blue occult practitioners do.  From the beginning, L/L and the Confederation have aimed for maximum openness and clarity.  For this reason alone, I think it's unfair to call it "occult" in the same way you'd call a magic cult or lodge or theosophists "occult".

Suggestion: I think you'd get a clearer conversation around this if you honed in a bit more on how you define "occult" and what you're trying to ascertain.  I couldn't tell, for example, if you were using the term pejoratively!

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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07-07-2017, 01:08 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-07-2017, 01:29 PM by Aion.)
#11
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
"Occult" means "hidden" and so "occult Knowledge" is just hidden knowledge. The term occult used in a derogatory sense comes from the belief of Christians that those who examine hidden knowledge are worshipping Satan, which is a very archaic belief at this point. That became a very popular idea in the Victorian era.

It typically refers to 'invisible realities' and so the greatest occult truth is in fact that of Unity. So yes, I would say it is an occult work because the topic is ultimately one that is hidden from regular perception. That is what 'occult' actually means and to study the occult is to seek out that hidden side of nature, that is the Creator.

In my humble opinion all philosophy deals with the occult because it concerns the "why", purpose and "meaning" which are all hidden on the surface. Keep in mind, they used to call 'the occult' anything that was outside of the mainstream thinking of the Church.

As such, Ra specifically states their message is philosophical.
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07-09-2017, 12:48 AM,
#12
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
Occult - "secret" or "hidden" in broad meaning is knowing the reality beyond physical, known only by a few - paranormal, supernatural.

To my understanding occultism is a supernatural science and technology focusing on this reality to understand it and develope techniques to come into possesion of powers or advantages from this knowledge. Branches: magic, alchemy, theurgy, astrology ...
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07-09-2017, 01:22 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-09-2017, 01:23 AM by Praxis.)
#13
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
The relative nature in possession of power, to overcome and "tune" yourself with higher, and perhaps higher (or finer) vibrations. To match our inner awareness with that of the whole. Be it love, oneness. To branch ourselves into magic, alchemy, etc. we're experimenting with information/experience beyond that of rational thought. Or at least a mix or logic and intuition, to propel us where? I would say the Ra material is more esoteric than occult. Occult perhaps to the general interpretation. What would be the advantages from this knowledge? To me it almost enacts a sense of separation. With power in the sense of connection comes balance in a myriad of forms, maybe we find ourselves becoming separated, better than those without knowledge of a niche perspective on how we are connected to that which is beyond us, inside the depths of us.
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07-09-2017, 09:00 PM,
#14
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
(07-09-2017, 12:48 AM)loostudent Wrote:  Occult - "secret" or "hidden" in broad meaning is knowing the reality beyond physical, known only by a few - paranormal, supernatural.

To my understanding occultism is a supernatural science and technology focusing on this reality to understand it and develope techniques to come into possesion of powers or advantages from this knowledge. Branches: magic, alchemy, theurgy, astrology ...

Then by that definition I would say that the Ra Material definitely includes occultism, although maybe isn't 'about' it.
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07-09-2017, 10:15 PM,
#15
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
"oc·cult/əˈkəlt/
noun
supernatural, mystical, or magical beliefs, practices, or phenomena.

adjective
of, involving, or relating to supernatural, mystical, or magical powers or phenomena.
(of a disease or process) not accompanied by readily discernible signs or symptoms."

The Ra material contains information of the nature that some people would consider to be matching the above definition. To other people, it is commonplace. There is no straight answer to this question. It contains both.

Unless "occult" means something different to loostudent than the definition above.
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07-10-2017, 09:36 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-10-2017, 11:25 AM by rva_jeremy.)
#16
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
(07-09-2017, 12:48 AM)loostudent Wrote:  Occult - "secret" or "hidden" in broad meaning is knowing the reality beyond physical, known only by a few - paranormal, supernatural.

To my understanding occultism is a supernatural science and technology focusing on this reality to understand it and develope techniques to come into possesion of powers or advantages from this knowledge. Branches: magic, alchemy, theurgy, astrology ...

In that sense I would only classify the Ra material as occult information to the extent that any sort of emphasis on meditation and disciplining the mind is occult (and if that's the case, you're bringing in a whole host of normal practices in psychology, counseling, etc.).  To my mind, there is a huge difference between a teacher (a) saying something is possible and outlining the general principles vs. (b) giving you specific instructions on how to use these principles to effect a change in consciousness.  Over and over again, those of Ra basically say you can do magic, you can move mountains, use the archetypes as a tool to effect powerful change, etc.  However, the only particular instructions they give are very general ones about meditation, the balancing exercises, the four perception exercises (this moment contains love, look at another, see the Creator, etc.) that are not intended to deliver specific, immediate changes in consciousness equal to authentic magical practice.  Even the rituals they endorse are the simplest and in my opinion least powerful in the western magical tradition.

I find the balance they've struck as very helpful to understanding the boundaries of free will and infringement, because it's clear that they see conscious experience of mundane reality as the great work, not extra-mundane hidden world that many use ritual magic to access.  For Ra, the latter seems to only be a focusing agent of the spirit of the former.  This is similar to the way alchemy was a hidden practice of transmuting the mundane into the sacred, except there's nothing secret about Ra's approach.  Ra is much more interested in enriching our lives than transcending them, and this is key in answering your question, in my ever so humble opinion, loostudent.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
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07-18-2017, 11:32 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-18-2017, 11:36 AM by Henosis.)
#17
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
I think it most simply means inner. At first I associated it with esotericism, hidden or secret knowledge, which it generally encompasses...but now I see it more simply as inner knowledge.

Occultism deals with the inner workings of reality based on personal experience.

Religions are built off the occult. It's just that many followers of the religion never go so far as to pierce the true nature of the religion in its purest form to see the inner meaning. For me personally, I feel the Ra material transcends all religious knowledge and touches upon the foundation all religion is built on. By understanding its content, you are given the key to unlock the world of occultism, religion, symbolism, and just a generally priceless understanding of reality.

If truth were emanating from a sun, the light near the center would deal with the "occult", while the outer layers and rays would be more related to the traditions and dogma of religion.

In my opinion, the Ra material is deeply occult...but I can understand how one would argue that it's not, depending on how one defines the term.
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07-24-2017, 11:31 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2017, 11:32 AM by loostudent.)
#18
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
(07-18-2017, 11:32 AM)Henosis Wrote:  Religions are built off the occult /.../ If truth were emanating from a sun, the light near the center would deal with the "occult", while the outer layers and rays would be more related to the traditions and dogma of religion.

Science and it's "right brain" counterpart magic want to know how things work, how to use them to achieve something. I think this knowledge (gnosis) by itself doesn't lead to spiritual growth even if it's about spiritual realm.

Religion also has some inspired knowledge and rituals but subordinated to the central purpose - this is: growing closer with Creator/Absolute/Sacred and realizing this as the very meaning of life. Deep religious experience is "light near the center of the sun" if I use this comparison by Henosis. Religion is often shown and experienced as wordly human tradition reduced to its surface or as fanatic extremism - blind faith neglecting the reason.

"We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The one who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. But the one who loves God is known by God. " (St. Paul in 1 Cor 8)
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07-24-2017, 11:41 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2017, 11:43 AM by BlatzAdict.)
#19
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
Whats occultist about the use of white magic that is in the power of love and healing?
The Lesser Banishing Ritual is pretty much the only instruction provided in the Law of One as well as hints to balance the divine feminine and the divine masculine, to see past light and dark and to see past duality as two complimentary forces instead of two forces in opposition.

The adept seems evil to the uninitiated, and seems like a fool to negative adepts.
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07-24-2017, 05:20 PM,
#20
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
Well stated from portions of us. The realization of other entities association/ terminology, should not forelay ones own intuition(inner feeling). More important than terming it occult, and letting that be your guide. What does ones heart feel whilst reading The Material?

I would also, in most cases, agree with boats last statement. Its easy to see, the negative adept, and the uninitated are not seeing your mental procedure. They literally can't see why you would make those choices.
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07-25-2017, 10:57 AM,
#21
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
The problem with magic (black or white) is violent appropriation and premature exploration. First your heart has to be pure before any work of this kind. "I just seem negative to the uninitiated" can be a handy excuse. I doubt our 3d mankind is mature enough for occult knowledge and advanced magic. The same with science and technology - just think of the nuclear weapons, human experiments ...
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07-26-2017, 01:22 PM,
#22
RE: Is Ra Material occult oriented?
(07-25-2017, 10:57 AM)loostudent Wrote:  The problem with magic (black or white) is violent appropriation and premature exploration. First your heart has to be pure before any work of this kind. "I just seem negative to the uninitiated" can be a handy excuse. I doubt our 3d mankind is mature enough for occult knowledge and advanced magic. The same with science and technology - just think of the nuclear weapons, human experiments ...

In my opinion people only aren't ready when they haven't had the means and the tools to heal their own proverbial original wound. I've found that this paves the way for a pure heart.

In the sense that mankind is not mature enough, sure I'd agree, if we were not here to help them heal tho we're here incarnate in the now part of gaia's mind complex.

Depending on the way something is taught I've learned people can learn it instantly or they can learn ending the cycle of victimhood the wrong way and take years to learn the same thing.

I used to think it took years, but then I found a cheat sheet hehe. 
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