(09-17-2010, 04:43 PM)unity100 Wrote: i think they couldnt be able to manifest proper love, or any higher vibration while being immersed in a religion like christianity or other middle eastern ones. they have rigid rules, they discriminate, they contain punishment and many more.
for a person to manifest proper love or any higher frequency, (in positive sense), they would need to ignore a majority of the aforementioned religions' rules and orders. that would in the end, basically make them someone who is not in that religion.
I was about to disagree vehemently, but then read the 2nd part of your post, and thought about that.
I thought back to when I left Caholicism for 'born-again' Christianity. I definitely had a spiritual experience, and started feeling more compassion for people than I ever did as a Catholic. But, upon reflection, I remember that I was told I was supposed to feel compassion.
At the time, I took that at face value. It was refreshing to me, after many years of being taught about the 'punishment' ie hell thing, to focus on love and feeling compassion for others. Was my compassion genuine? Or was I trying to help people because I was told I was 'supposed' to do that?
Thinking back, I would have to say honestly, that I did what I was told to do, because it was the 'right' thing to do. Hence, my actions were actually selfish, because I wanted to 'gain favor with God.'
However, as time went on, I began to become disillusioned with my religion. I had thought I had escaped focus on fire and brimstone, but I was wrong. Instead of only Catholics going to 'heaven' I was told that only those who professed salvation in Jesus would go to 'heaven.' I realized that I had traded 1 fear-based dogma for another, but this one was light and fluffy.
Does that make my initial spiritual experience any less valid? No. The transformational experience I had as a born-again Christian was very real and very valid to me, and I still treasure it. It is part of who I am. Would I have learned compassion on my own without being told by an authority that I needed to have compassion? I believe yes, I would have learned it some other way. Maybe I would have discovered some other religion. Or maybe I would have just learned it from everyday catalyst.
I think I was ready to learn what that religion had to teach, so I was attracted to it. For awhile. But then I moved on.
So, in response to your comment: I definitely know people who have a beautiful, openness of heart, while in organized religions, whom I believe are absolutely genuine. I don't just believe it's possible; I know it's possible because these are people I know personally. Their hearts are pure. They radiate love!
We can only speculate as to how much the religion had to do with that. I contend that religion has no more to do with it than other catalyst. The reason I say this is that I also know other people who are every bit as loving, who have no religion!
And of course we all know religious people who aren't loving! This is why I really think the heart radiating love has more to do with the human spirit than it does with the style of catalyst itself. I see the religious structure as another layer of catalyst, another brick in the wall of illusion that makes up our present reality. We attract those circumstances we need for our unfoldment. In my case, I discovered born-again Christianity because, at that time in my life, I was ready for the type of experience it offered.
But, on to part 2 of your comment: I have to admit that these people have chosen to focus on what I consider the genuine teachings of Jesus: that of love, forgiveness, and compassion. They have chosen to ignore the harsher tenets of their religion. Another factor is that some denominations focus more on the love, while others focus on 'getting saved' (ie. getting their ticket to heaven), and still others focus more on the harsher 'hell' doctrine. It varies widely within the Christian faith. Just look at how many denominations there are!
Can a person radiate pure love while immersed in a conventional religion? I say: A resounding YES!
However, in order to do that, would the person likely have to ignore the harsher tenets of the religion? Again I'd have to say YES. I don't see how someone could genuinely love another person and, at the same time, be willing to accept that the person would be condemned to eternal suffering just for believing a different way.
But who among us has perfect, undistorted love? The harsher tenets of religions are distortions. I agree that such harsh tenets as the concepts of punishment and eternal damnation are absolutely negative and will inevitably be shed as the person evolves.
I recently met a woman very steeped in mainstream religion. Shortly after I met her, she shared with me how she felt guilty for questioning certain passages in the Bible. She couldn't understand how 'God' could be so cruel! I very gently suggested to her that maybe those were just words written by humans, based on their perceptions of God, rather than absolute 'Truth' written by God. I actually hesitated before telling her this, because I didn't want to impose on her process. But she is the one who asked me, so I responded to her questions. She felt so relieved! She hugged me and thanked me for helping her to see that such ideas weren't heretical. It was such a challenge for her, to let go of what she had been taught! But the love she radiated was beautiful! She let go of her conditionings, BECAUSE OF the love that was stirring in her heart! Just as a child outgrows a pair of shoes, she outgrew the tenets of her religion that no longer served her.
Is she still a Christian? Yes. I would not presume to tell her to stay or leave her religion. That is something she will have to decide for herself. But the process of questioning has begun! She will never go back to blind acceptance!
Last I heard, she was very focused on the love aspect of her religion, and going thru a 'cleaning house' process of eliminating the tenets that no longer worked for her. Perhaps one day she will leave it altogether, or perhaps she will treasure the gems while being liberated from the shackles.
She didn't have to leave her religion totally in order to find love. But finding love forced the harsher tenets of her religion to be eliminated. They couldn't coexist.
I propose that, rather than necessarily casting aside religion in order to open the heart to love, people will naturally open their hearts, over time as they evolve, whether or not they have religion, and as that happens, they begin to understand the deeper, mystical aspects of their religion (which are often not taught by their religious 'authorities'), and aspects of religion not compatible with love are naturally cast aside.
So, in conclusion, at first glance I very strongly disagreed with your statement, but upon reflection, I realized that there is truth to the point that the person would have to ignore a lot of their religion's tenets. Case in point: I know very few Christians who follow the rules of the old testament literally. So the mainstream version of the religion has already shed a lot of the harsher tenets. Same with Islam. Those who follow the violent aspects are considered radical, not mainstream. And yet there is still a lot in the mainstream religions that is negative, such as reliance upon 'authorities' to dictate what to believe, an inherent elitist message of some people being 'chosen' over others, the supremacy of their religion over others, etc. Some of these tenets are woven so intricately into the fabric of the religion that to question them equates to heresy in the minds of the religious adherents. The road is yet long ahead before these inherent STS aspects are eliminated from the mainstream versions of the popular religions.
Religions evolve. Right now, the mainstream versions seem to be polarizing. On the one hand, we see an increase in radical versions (of Christianity too, not just Islam) while on the other hand, we see more loving versions like Universalist Christianity gaining popularity.
Perhaps when the aliens land, the mainstream religions will lose their monopoly on spirituality. But there will always be the radical ones who say the aliens are just satan masquerading. Religions exist because they are a reflection of what humans choose to believe.
Now, the question then becomes: If the person has shed the harsher tenets of their religion, are they still immersed in their religion?
That is a very subjective question and dependent upon semantics once again.
Case in point: I have a friend who is a Christian Universalist. I consider him to be one of the top people on the planet who understands the Law of One.
Yet, he has never read the Law of One.
But he understands it and, more importantly, lives it.
He's never heard of Ra. He doesn't believe in reincarnation. What's more, he believes the Bible is the 'word of God.' Although, he acknowledges that it was written by humans, and is therefore flawed in the sense that it offers their limited perception of God.
I marveled at how this young man (for he is only in his early 20s) could be so wise. He is probably in the top 10 people I respect the most in the world. And yet, he is most definitely 'immersed' in his religion.
How can this be?
Well, my observation is that he uses his Bible the same way we might use a Tarot deck or astrology. The Bible is alive to him. It is an oracle. It reflect his inner seeking.
He sees the violence in the old testament but believes the authors misrepresented what really happened. He doesn't offer the lame excuse commonly offered, ie. that "we can't question God" but instead acknowledges that those actions were ugly and awful. Most importantly, he does not accept that God would be so cruel as to 'punish' forever the souls he created. And, he believes that all souls will eventually be 'redeemed' contrary to the fashionable tenet that the majority of the population will be condemned to eternal torment.
But it's not his beliefs I admire. I admire his love, compassion, forgiveness and wisdom.
Many of his Christian friends consider him a heretic! Some even think he's dangerous.
I find conversation with this young man very fascinating. I marvel at how he has managed to find the love in an ancient book that, at first glance, is filled with distortion.
I contend that it is to his credit, not the book's. His choice to polarize has prevailed, despite the seeming limitations of his chosen religion. He has transcended those limitations.
Note: Post has been edited.