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07-04-2018, 09:53 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2018, 10:03 AM by loostudent.)
From my experience it is not advisable to start this kind of work prematurely. Of course we all work with archetypes subconsciously but only adepts start to work consciously. My experience is like the story of Icarus who flew to high, burnt his wings and fell to te ground. I run into this stuff by accident. I didn't purposely study any system. I just intensively pondered on patterns, polarities and symbols in the Universe I could thought of and observe and constantly wrote down my thoughts in a notepad. When I look back I think this brainstorming was spontaneously becoming automatic writing. I don't know if I was in contact with my Higher Self or also others. It was like my spirit opened its gates ... in a deeper connection ... It was sometimes blissful sometimes confusing and mentaly destructive bordering on madness. E. g. I couldn't control the stream of thoughts/feelings flowing like a big wild river. I think I lacked balance in lower chakras and maybe I also lacked green ray. With great difficulty and much help I canceled the process and started from scratch.
07-04-2018, 10:27 AM
Quo 11-06-10 Wrote:In doing metaphysical work you need to find your center. You need to find what you are living for and what you would die for. You need to find the ground of your being. You need to know at the bedrock level who you are. Because in time/space, in the metaphysical realms of eternity and infinity, that entity that you truly are, your essence, your vibration, your frequency, is your identity. In my view, this is the foot you should first put forward--knowing your self, your own vibration, deeply--and not worry about how working with or not working with the archetypes reflects back on you. The archetypes and channeling and Internet forums and all the rest are various tools lying on the ground. Some will choose this tool, some will choose that one. Some will hurt themselves in the seeking, others will be more kind or sensible. Most of us will mainly distract ourselves chattering while stepping around the seminal work of knowing what we are living for--that is, DEEPLY knowing--and what is the ground of our being, such as we can possibly know these things at any given time. Woof! Woof!
07-04-2018, 10:33 AM
(07-04-2018, 09:53 AM)loostudent Wrote: From my experience it is not advisable to start this kind of work prematurely. Of course we all work with archetypes subconsciously but only adepts start to work consciously. My experience is like the story of Icarus who flew to high, burnt his wings and fell to te ground. I run into this stuff by accident. I didn't purposely study any system. I just intensively pondered on patterns, polarities and symbols in the Universe I could thought of and observe and constantly wrote down my thoughts in a notepad. When I look back I think this brainstorming was spontaneously becoming automatic writing. I don't know if I was in contact with my Higher Self or also others. It was like my spirit opened its gates ... in a deeper connection ... It was sometimes blissful sometimes confusing and mentaly destructive bordering on madness. E. g. I couldn't control the stream of thoughts/feelings flowing like a big wild river. I think I lacked balance in lower chakras and maybe I also lacked green ray. With great difficulty and much help I canceled the process and started from scratch. So, if that road did not lead to success, where can you go to find the essence of your own vibration? Perhaps you would do better exploring your heart rather than your head?
07-04-2018, 10:17 PM
(07-04-2018, 08:18 AM)Agua Wrote: Hey fellow seekers, What are you talking about in not studying tarot? Quote please The purpose of the tarot is to develop the personality which is the projection used to navigate and interact in our society. Any entity can benefit. I don't consider the tarot-archetypes as transpersonal. Ra mentions the study of the archetypes as the blueprint of energy expenditure. Ra recommends an exploration of kabbalah, astrology, and the tarot to find the natural resonance one has with an archetypal system. Internalization is very important and overlook as a general goal. Intellectualization isnt helpful past an often imperceptibly subtle point. Generally, when you want to know something for yourself in an unquestionable way, you do. Using archetypes for personal work requires a methodology unique to the student. There are many gems in Ra's take on the tarot. Being dependent on his perception is a heavy crutch in the beginning. Best to start with the healing exercises
07-05-2018, 10:52 AM
One remark I'd offer: we're always working with the archetypes. There's never a time when we're not. The question is whether we're doing it with a sensitivity to the resonances foremost in our mind, or whether we're unconsciously working with them and still learning the correspondences via trial and error. If this is the case, and it's about the quality of attention and attitude with which we approach these matters, then it really has less to do with the subject of study and more to do with the nature of how we're approaching it. In other words, it's less about whether there's a more correct way or time to study the archetypes, and more about understanding our own situation well enough to begin accepting what our studies and thinking will show us.
I feel like a broken record, but here's the deal: there is very, very little forum, or even person-to-person, discussion that will assist one with the study of the archetypes. This is very affective, subtle, deep mind work. You are becoming sensitive when you are studying the archetypes. It's unlikely that another's thoughts and energy are going to make your thoughts and energy more intelligible at this level. I don't think there's a danger in studying the archetypes too early per se; I think there's a danger in diving into using the resource of the deep mind without full honesty and acceptance of yourself. Yes, I am simply recasting the initial question -- should you work on the lower chakras first -- in different terms, since those first three chakras are the most basic way we start to know ourselves. But there's something to be said for reaching beyond a mechanical curriculum and understanding the fluid, subtle nature of what we're attempting. Sometimes merely discussing these things in writing lends these endeavors a sense of concreteness, tractability, and determinacy that they do not warrant. There's a difference between talking about the study and doing the study. When it comes to the archetypes, this difference widens into a chasm. It's akin to Ra's distinction between technique and heart.
07-06-2018, 12:33 PM
(07-04-2018, 10:33 AM)peregrine Wrote: So, if that road did not lead to success, where can you go to find the essence of your own vibration? So maybe I'm a thinker. I like reading, thinking and discussing things. But I have blockages on other fields. Maybe exploring the heart and puting more into practice. I think the problem wasn't this road but overactivity and imbalance. I still explore archetypes but more carefully.
07-06-2018, 03:19 PM
I think this is one of the relevant quotes, which point to the study of the archetypes as being a relevant tool, for someone who has already done much previous work on the self.
Of course - Ra's words are as they are, and it's your own choice what you do with them. My own personal opinion? People vastly over-estimate their spiritual capabilities, and don't want to hear a counter-opinion as to their true level of development. This applies most poignantly to people who work individually, and don't get ongoing feedback as to what they are 'doing'. Quote:42.18 Questioner: Then in attempting to reproduce this experience would I then best follow practices for the Order of the Golden Dawn in reproducing this? Quote:90.29 Questioner: That’s OK. I don’t think that was that good a question anyway.
07-06-2018, 07:01 PM
(07-06-2018, 03:19 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: I think this is one of the relevant quotes, which point to the study of the archetypes as being a relevant tool, for someone who has already done much previous work on the self. Not sure what you mean by 'spiritual capabilities', if I get your jist I agree. Agree, living consciously has a built in feedback. Regarding working alone, in a ritual, not a good idea (Exception of self transformations). Not, however, as a general rule of spiritual development. The last bolded quote, 'a point at which the adept takes up its work', useful. Due to a mess of emotions clarity is impossible at the archetypal level to the beginner. May as well, OP follow the training program laid out and practice the healing exercises.
07-07-2018, 01:40 AM
(07-06-2018, 03:19 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: My own personal opinion? People vastly over-estimate their spiritual capabilities, and don't want to hear a counter-opinion as to their true level of development. This applies most poignantly to people who work individually, and don't get ongoing feedback as to what they are 'doing'. You're talking about me, aren't you?!!! AREN'T YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! And how right you are. Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:There is a point at which the adept takes up its work. This is the point at which a clear and conscious consideration of the archetypical mind is useful. So, uh, what is that point where those archeetypee things actually do become useful? And what use are they? I mean, like, what use are they beyond the fun of puzzling out the imagery? What are they good for beyond that? What have they done for thou, old boy?
07-07-2018, 05:06 AM
(07-06-2018, 03:19 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: I think this is one of the relevant quotes, which point to the study of the archetypes as being a relevant tool, for someone who has already done much previous work on the self. What if no one sane or conscious enough was around?
07-07-2018, 06:00 AM
(07-07-2018, 01:40 AM)peregrine Wrote: So, uh, what is that point where those archeetypee things actually do become useful? And what use are they? I mean, like, what use are they beyond the fun of puzzling out the imagery? What are they good for beyond that? What have they done for thou, old boy? well - to me - they are kind of like 'mental anatomy'. And unless one wants to become a doctor or a surgeon; then all the names and intricate details would put most people to sleep (just like trying to read/memorise a book on physical anatomy). Of course - it's good to know the 'basics'. That we have 2 lungs, where the liver is, veins, a thymus. If one is 'in' a body, it's good to know the basics. Same with the mind. But in terms of deciphering it, knowing how it exactly operates, what kinds of changes can be deliberately put in place (both positive and negative), that's when you really want to become a full-on student at that level. It probably appealed to Don a lot, because he had all that blue-ray activation, and liked figuring out how things are connected to what, in a fundamental way. For me - it did have the same kind of draw. Chemistry was one of my favourite subjects in high school (and I also did a few courses at university level), and having an ordered, overall structure/schema is really enticing. In terms of 'effects', it definitely helped me to balance more. The archetypes of the body, especially, spoke to certain solar plexus patterns that I was still dealing with. Like it elucidated where certain misunderstandings and unexamined viewpoints were. And - on an even more personal level - it truly sparkplugged my dream activity when I got into the archetypes in a serious way. Almost like deep currents (of the psyche) began to unfreeze, and started flowing more naturally. (incidentally, I used to have the most amazingly vivid dreamlife as a child, but it started to 'die off' when I became more and more pulled in by this physical/material experience). So it's like the archetypes re-awakened those 'streams', which was a true boon. As for 'readiness', who can say? But the archetypes CAN be used for negative activity as well. Quote:44.16 Questioner: As an ending question I will just ask is it possible, then, for the ipsissimus to have either positive or negative polarity, or must he be neither? So the attitude is key. A desire for further acceptance, rather than further (self) control.
07-07-2018, 06:13 AM
(07-07-2018, 05:06 AM)Cainite Wrote: What if no one sane or conscious enough was around? That's a tough one. There are definitely family (and social) environments where there really aren't positive touchstones to keep a good context of where things are at. I was blessed to have a younger brother who was super heart-centered, in the most natural and unforced way. Like everyone in our family of many cousins just looked up to him as a big brother and uncle. So growing up, there was always someone there to 'keep it real'. In today's time and age, there's always skype. But there can be language issues in communicating, which I totally understand. But yeah - people of integrity and firm groundedness aren't in massive surplus in most places. G
07-07-2018, 10:57 AM
I think it's something hard to come to accept but people always do what they resonate with and are ready for, although it may not seem that way, and there is little value in judging when an other-self offers the reflection of what it is. When judging another, we tend to look at aspects of themselves rather than the whole of themselves, and that simply says we are centered upon our own learning and project upon another, blocking ourselves from truly learning about them as otherwise you shouldn't find to feel anything other than acceptance of what they are.
Our school systems somewhat ingrained into us the mentality of linear learning, when the most efficient approach is probably more systemic or cyclic, where it is useful to not remain stuck in any single area and instead move on to come back later, times and times again. I believe that is exactly how the Universe operates and is easy to see to anyone that does some basic study in astrology, you have cycling influences that plays on your mind, body and spirit into allowing you to realize yourself, you come to have emotionally empowered moments, mindful empowered moments, just as spirit/crown empowered moments. Also I think a good thing in the material, that is often left aside, is that maximal activation of your rays isn't as helpful as balancing them. I often have the impression that some want to see strong ray activation rather than balance, despite how that simply implies projecting strong distorted energies unto others. I think entities that resonate with wisdom will have a stronger leaning toward achieving a strong balance before achieving a strong activation, because love imbued with wisdom seeks not power foolishly but is concerned with what it does with it, activation then comes naturally and with little struggle while it may be plain harmful to be rushed. In regard to healing, I really doubt that anyone's higher dimensional self is fully healed. That would disallow incarnation as wandering is heavily tied to shifting time/space distortions through space/time experience and so requires a form of blockage to begin. On the more global level, we are healing the Logos' need to fill the void until this need finds completion through all of us, so even the Logos itself does not reflect full healing and somewhat the exact opposite. So while healing is of importance, healing is found through the completion of experiencing and it is probably more useful to go about your life merrily welcoming new things than it is to remain stuck in that you need to constantly fix something within yourself. Nothing is overcome, what is not needed will fall away.
07-07-2018, 11:07 PM
(07-07-2018, 06:00 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: Direct usage is beyond me. You can use the deeper resonances to built thought forms. Arrangement then is used in a working. Channeling raw power is no easy task. It impossible without a certain 'point of heart' called so in Kabbalah. Without conscious use of dreams a lot is impossible. (For damn good reason). I've found it helpful to adapt a general psychiatric model to assist in understanding mental catalyst.
07-07-2018, 11:16 PM
(07-07-2018, 07:28 AM)Agua Wrote:(07-06-2018, 07:01 PM)Cobrien Wrote: Not sure what you mean by 'spiritual capabilities', if I get your jist I agree. Agree, living consciously has a built in feedback. Regarding working alone, in a ritual, not a good idea (Exception of self transformations). Not, however, as a general rule of spiritual development. Sounds good. I can remember telling myself over and over I was gonna love. When you realize love is the very focus of self awareness things change, gradually. Internalization is the only method to polarity. How you react to the influx of energies is constantly tested. |
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