The veil and the "hell"
04-14-2019, 10:27 PM,
#1
The veil and the "hell"
Hi. If the veil is a space/time phenomena, why there are so many entities suffering on the lower astral planes? I already read about some things terrible. I have my own vision, but I'd like know others point of view.
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04-14-2019, 11:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-14-2019, 11:03 PM by Glow.)
#2
RE: The veil and the "hell"
I would buy something along the lines.
I have always resonated with the idea that hell was separation from God, or that feeling of unity.
The veil certainly makes that separation possible, or even unavoidable until you have started to seek and started to find.

I am sure there are realms with more or less separation hence the idea of heaven and hell as we move towards or away from unity.

edited to add a bit more.

The veil devil, moth could be said to allow for the experience of seperation.

Also hell being punishment for sin(error) could easily be a fear based version of the more extreme veiled experiences being to learn what we already do not know about separation/unity.
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04-14-2019, 11:09 PM,
#3
RE: The veil and the "hell"
From the point of view of a 4th density positive there is little difference in the soul of a 3rd density being and a 4th density negative being, in their view, in my view, both exist equally in "hell".
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04-15-2019, 01:42 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-15-2019, 01:54 AM by anagogy.)
#4
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-14-2019, 10:27 PM)Infinite Wrote:  Hi. If the veil is a space/time phenomena, why there are so many entities suffering on the lower astral planes? I already read about some things terrible. I have my own vision, but I'd like know others point of view.

There are many veils. Beings that have not consciously activated or deactivated the heart center are not necessarily "awake between lives" in the full sense of the word. They are basically sleep walking for a variable amount of time before their higher self puts them back in another space/time incarnation. Some other souls simply refuse to go into the light at death, and they also refuse to stay on the physical plane, so they end up in the lower astral. Some of them can't stay focused on the physical plane and stuck in "emotional loops" like a bad dream that they keep reliving.

Sometimes there is overlap between these emotional loops and the physical plane. So it is kind of overlap between planes. These are the hauntings where something tends to keep repeating over and over. A murder for example. In reality, it is not the murderers spirit there, it is just the victim, who is stuck there and unable to move past it so they keep reliving the same nightmare over and over. They can't see the higher planes because they are so focused, they can't see the spirit helpers, and they can barely see the physical world either often. Mediums are often of aid in releasing these spirits because they are more likely to be able to communicate with them then the higher vibrational beings unfortunately. A sort of self imposed veil. Some souls have such strong beliefs that it grounds them to some personal reality in the lower astral. I call them "hollow heavens" and "hollow hells". They aren't real, but they believe they are so they experience the reality, often with others of similar belief.

If the will has not been developed at all, most beings that have not activated the heart center would reincarnate rapidly upon death because there is little need for healing between lives at this stage. But there is a spectrum of development where some of them spend some time in the ethers.

edit to add:

"During the first portion of third-density cycles, incarnations are automatic and occur rapidly upon the cessation of energy complex of the physical vehicle. There is small need to review or to heal the experiences of the incarnation. As, what you would call, the energy centers begin to be activated to a higher extent, more of the content of experience during incarnation deals with the lessons of love.

Thus the time, as you may understand it, between incarnations is lengthened to give appropriate attention to the review and the healing of experiences of the previous incarnation. At some point in third density, the green-ray energy center becomes activated and at that point incarnation ceases to be automatic.
"

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
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04-15-2019, 08:53 AM,
#5
RE: The veil and the "hell"
One of my favorite ways to explain karma/kamma is by way of the “Salt Crystal” Sutra from the Buddhist Pali cannon:

Quote:Lonaphala Sutta

The Salt Crystal

Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
For free distribution only.


"Monks, for anyone who says, 'In whatever way a person makes kamma, that is how it is experienced,' there is no living of the holy life, there is no opportunity for the right ending of stress. But for anyone who says, 'When a person makes kamma to be felt in such and such a way, that is how its result is experienced,' there is the living of the holy life, there is the opportunity for the right ending of stress.

"There is the case where a trifling evil deed done by a certain individual takes him to hell. There is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by another individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable.[1] A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.


"Suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into a small amount of water in a cup. What do you think? Would the water in the cup become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"Yes, lord. Why is that? There being only a small amount of water in the cup, it would become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink."

"Now suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into the River Ganges. What do you think? Would the water in the River Ganges become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"No, lord. Why is that? There being a great mass of water in the River Ganges, it would not become salty because of the salt crystal or unfit to drink."

"In the same way, there is the case where a trifling evil deed done by one individual [the first] takes him to hell; and there is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by the other individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"There is the case where a certain person is thrown into jail for half a dollar (kahapana), is thrown into jail for a dollar, is thrown into jail for one hundred dollars. And there is the case where another person is not thrown into jail for half a dollar, is not thrown into jail for a dollar, is not thrown into jail for one hundred dollars. Now what sort of person is thrown into jail for half a dollar... for a dollar... for one hundred dollars? There is the case where a person is poor, of little wealth, of few possessions. This is the sort of person who is thrown into jail for half a dollar... for a dollar... for one hundred dollars. And what sort of person is not thrown into jail for half a dollar... for a dollar... for one hundred dollars? There is the case where a person is wealthy, with many belongings, many possessions. This is the sort of person who is not thrown into jail for half a dollar... for a dollar... for one hundred dollars.

"In the same way, there is the case where a trifling evil deed done by one individual takes him to hell; and there is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by the other individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"It's just as when a goat butcher is empowered to beat or bind or slay or treat as he likes a certain person who steals a goat, but is not empowered to beat or bind or slay or treat as he likes another person who steals a goat. Now, when what sort of person has stolen a goat is the goat butcher empowered to beat him or bind him or slay him or treat him as he likes? There is the case where a person is poor, of little wealth, of few possessions. This is the sort of person who, when he has stolen a goat, the goat butcher is empowered to beat or bind or slay or treat as he likes. And when what sort of person has stolen a goat is the goat butcher not empowered to beat him or bind him or slay him or treat him as he likes? There is the case where a person is wealthy, with many belongings, many possessions; a king or a king's minister. This is the sort of person who, when he has stolen a goat, the goat butcher is not empowered to beat or bind or slay or treat as he likes. All he can do is go with his hands clasped before his heart and beg: 'Please, dear sir, give me a goat or the price of a goat.'

"In the same way, there is the case where a trifling evil deed done by one individual takes him to hell; and there is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by the other individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here and now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Monks, for anyone who says, 'In whatever way a person makes kamma, that is how it is experienced,' there is no living of the holy life, there is no opportunity for the right ending of stress. But for anyone who says, 'When a person makes kamma to be felt in such and such a way, that is how its result is experienced,' there is the living of the holy life, there is the opportunity for the right ending of stress."
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04-15-2019, 10:25 AM,
#6
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-15-2019, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote:  There are many veils. Beings that have not consciously activated or deactivated the heart center are not necessarily "awake between lives" in the full sense of the word.

Well, we must assume that veiled third density time/space is different from the time/space of third densities without the free will extension. Because without the veil the things should be obvious.
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04-15-2019, 11:46 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-15-2019, 11:49 AM by Louisabell.)
#7
RE: The veil and the "hell"
Suffering comes from resistance. Without a veil you just are what you are. If you embody hatred, then so be it - you most organically express/manifest that energy without compunction. Kind of like the difference between having to hold back anger versus losing yourself in the moment to pure raw anger. The first creates friction, discomfort and de-energises, while the latter is cathartic and almost pleasurable in how it keeps you in the moment. Time/space is like a perpetual being in the moment.

All these energies have their place as primal movers in an infinite universe. It is normal to crave vengeance every now and then in one's life, and then we may find it quite useful to tap into these lower astral environments for inspiration. It can happen to anyone. Some people choose to make their whole lives about revenge and they make these lower astral planes their home as they hone these energies in themselves. It becomes who they are.

We may see it as unfortunate, however evidently the Creator allows a place for all energies to be expressed equally.

The people of Maldek found themselves in a knot of fear. No one could reach them. It took much time, but slowly with help they were able to remember they were conscious. That means to me that they were basically in a coma where they became the essence of fear itself. Obviously not the most pleasant energy to be, yet a coma patient doesn't neccessarily suffer either. For example, a human consciousness stuck in a rock would be torture, but a first density consciousness in a rock is totally peaceful.

So in my opinion, when the veil is lifted we can see with full force who we are, it therefore becomes obvious that there is no point in resisting ourselves, we just organically express who we are and go where we've made our metaphysical/vibrational home. And apart from the initial shock of it, I'm not sure how much suffering really occurs in terms of our 3d human idea of it.
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04-15-2019, 01:27 PM,
#8
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-15-2019, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote:  There are many veils. Beings that have not consciously activated or deactivated the heart center are not necessarily "awake between lives" in the full sense of the word. They are basically sleep walking for a variable amount of time before their higher self puts them back in another space/time incarnation.

Hey just curious do you think this might be why some people have a NDE and see nothing? Others just black?
My husbands coworker who is very unconscious in this life is super anti-spiritual because his father had a NDE and said there was "nothing".
I never knew what to make of that.

Of course I realize that was not likely what you mean by "not awake" but maybe.
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04-16-2019, 02:00 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-16-2019, 02:00 AM by Cainite.)
#9
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-15-2019, 01:27 PM)Glow Wrote:  
(04-15-2019, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote:  There are many veils. Beings that have not consciously activated or deactivated the heart center are not necessarily "awake between lives" in the full sense of the word. They are basically sleep walking for a variable amount of time before their higher self puts them back in another space/time incarnation.

Hey just curious do you think this might be why some people have a NDE and see nothing? Others just black?
My husbands coworker who is very unconscious in this life is super anti-spiritual because his father had a NDE and said there was "nothing".
I never knew what to make of that.

Of course I realize that was not likely what you mean by "not awake" but maybe.

When I didn't believe in the afterlife, I used to dream of death and only see this black screen. I think that may have to do with law of confusion, and what the entity expects death to be like.
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04-16-2019, 08:57 AM,
#10
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-15-2019, 01:27 PM)Glow Wrote:  
(04-15-2019, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote:  There are many veils. Beings that have not consciously activated or deactivated the heart center are not necessarily "awake between lives" in the full sense of the word. They are basically sleep walking for a variable amount of time before their higher self puts them back in another space/time incarnation.

Hey just curious do you think this might be why some people have a NDE and see nothing? Others just black?
My husbands coworker who is very unconscious in this life is super anti-spiritual because his father had a NDE and said there was "nothing".
I never knew what to make of that.

Of course I realize that was not likely what you mean by "not awake" but maybe.

There’s the NDE of a Howard Storm who was an atheist and had a quite vivid NDE. I highly recommend listening to his story. He recounts it in all honesty and by that honesty we get a true glimpse into the afterdeath process. It’s fascinating!
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04-16-2019, 10:24 AM,
#11
RE: The veil and the "hell"
I will look for that thanks!
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04-16-2019, 11:29 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-16-2019, 11:30 AM by kristina.)
#12
RE: The veil and the "hell"
17.41 ▶ Questioner: At this time, near the end of the cycle, how are reincarnations into the physical allocated, shall I say, on this planet? In our own [inaudible].

Ra: I am Ra. Entities wishing to obtain critically needed experience in order to become harvestable are incarnated with priority over those who will, without too much probable/possible doubt, need to re-experience this density.

21.9 ▶ Questioner: Now, when the 75,000-year cycle started, [the] life span was approximately nine hundred years, average. What was the process and scheduling of— mechanism, shall I say, of reincarnation at that time, and how did the time in between incarnations into third-density physical apply to the growth of the mind/body/spirit complex?

Ra: I am Ra. This query is more complex than most. We shall begin. The incarnation pattern of the beginning third-density mind/body/spirit complex begins in darkness, for you may think or consider of your density as one of, as you may say, a sleep and a forgetting. This is the only plane of forgetting. It is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex.

Thus, the beginning entity is one in all innocence oriented towards animalistic behavior using other-selves only as extensions of self for the preservation of the all-self. The entity becomes slowly aware that it has needs, shall we say, that are not animalistic; that is, that are useless for survival. These needs include: the need for companionship, the need for laughter, the need for beauty, the need to know the universe about it. These are the beginning needs.

As the incarnations begin to accumulate, further needs are discovered: the need to trade, the need to love, the need to be loved, the need to elevate animalistic behaviors to a more universal perspective.

During the first portion of third-density cycles, incarnations are automatic and occur rapidly upon the cessation of energy complex of the physical vehicle. There is small need to review or to heal the experiences of the incarnation. As, what you would call, the energy centers begin to be activated to a higher extent, more of the content of experience during incarnation deals with the lessons of love.

Thus the time, as you may understand it, between incarnations is lengthened to give appropriate attention to the review and the healing of experiences of the previous incarnation. At some point in third density, the green-ray energy center becomes activated and at that point incarnation ceases to be automatic.

*This is the only plane of forgetting
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04-17-2019, 06:06 PM,
#13
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-15-2019, 10:25 AM)Infinite Wrote:  Well, we must assume that veiled third density time/space is different from the time/space of third densities without the free will extension.  Because without the veil the things should be obvious.

Just for clarity's sake, my understanding is that when Ra uses the term "free will" they mean it in the sense of being subject to the illusion of separation (the illusion of having an independent will from the creator). That is why they alternately refer to it as the "law of confusion". It is the free will to not know the truth of things. The free will to be confused. It isn't free will in the sense that you can't make choices, as beings could still choose, but they were biased by the total security/bliss/peace of being one with the creator.

Having said that, I would agree that the nonfreewill third densities' (in otherwords 3rd density without the veil) time/space is different, but only in content, not in structure. So they would still reside where they will reside after death as a factor of what energy centers they have activated, just like veiled third density beings do, except they would probably use those levels much more consciously then their veiled cousins. So they wouldn't have a situation where they did not realize they were dead, for example. They would remember who they were prior to incarnation, during incarnation, and after.

(04-15-2019, 01:27 PM)Glow Wrote:  
(04-15-2019, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote:  There are many veils. Beings that have not consciously activated or deactivated the heart center are not necessarily "awake between lives" in the full sense of the word. They are basically sleep walking for a variable amount of time before their higher self puts them back in another space/time incarnation.

Hey just curious do you think this might be why some people have a NDE and see nothing? Others just black?
My husbands coworker who is very unconscious in this life is super anti-spiritual because his father had a NDE and said there was "nothing".
I never knew what to make of that.

Of course I realize that was not likely what you mean by "not awake" but maybe.

There are a lot of reasons why that could occur.

But yes, that is a plausible explanation. There are other possibilities as well:

1) Many people think they are closer to death than they they actually are. They may have had a close call, but it wasn't enough to eject their vitality sheath from their physical body. Keep in mind the anecdotal nature of the phenomenon. It doesn't mean it doesn't count as evidence, but in general, anecdotes will contain substantial distortion. So sample size is important.
2) Sometimes people don't remember what happened to them outside of their body. The memories are only retained if there is a spiritual purpose involved in doing so. Some people are incarnating for lessons that deal with coping with the fear of mortality. So these memories would interfere with their life lessons. This is also the case with people who have strong religious beliefs. They have the free will to remain confused, and so they see what they believe. Often their life lessons revolve around a life of extreme religious devotion. Seeing how things really are would disrupt their life path. So a somewhat similar situation.

(04-16-2019, 11:29 AM)kristina Wrote:  *This is the only plane of forgetting

I would suggest that we keep in mind that they say 3rd density is the only plane of forgetting. 3rd density doesn't end when you die. In otherwords, you don't stop being 3rd density at death. Souls don't immediately remember their previous self right after death. For proof of this, simply research between lives regressions. For example, the Michael Newton books. There are plenty of examples where the deceased being doesn't remember their between lives ego fully until they reach "the other side". There is even one example in the book where a being thought he was meeting the devil, until he realized it was his spirit guide playing a joke on him after a lifetime as a preacher telling people they were going to hell.

And many earth bound spirits aren't even aware they have died. Oftentimes, the reason a spirit will not go into the light is because they are scared of going to hell. If the veil was immediately penetrated at death, this would simply never occur. The veil of forgetting is something that gradually wears off after death, provided you are near the vibrational viscinity of your former self (the part of us that never leaves the spirit world).

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
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04-17-2019, 06:38 PM,
#14
RE: The veil and the "hell"
I don't think 3D is hell. I can imagine 4D negative would be worse. Because then you would know the love of Creator and would reject it.
That must truly be pain.

But 3D is fear definitely, at times. Schizophrenia is awfully bad. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But the meds do help.
I just don't think in 4D negative there would be medication, because that would be for a chemical body.

I only hope I am worthy of 4D positive. But even if I am not, it just teaches me that I need to serve more.
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04-17-2019, 06:44 PM,
#15
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-17-2019, 06:38 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  I just don't think in 4D negative there would be medication, because that would be for a chemical body.

4D is a chemical body too.


43.16 ▶ Questioner: We know that the physical vehicle in fourth density that is used during space/time, I am assuming, is quite similar to the one that we now use in third density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The chemical elements used are not the same. However, the appearance is similar.


Here they confirm that it is still a chemical body, they just say the chemicals used are different for a 4D body than a 3D body.

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
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04-17-2019, 06:54 PM,
#16
RE: The veil and the "hell"
Thanks anagogy. I thought Ra said that 4D we have an electrical body.
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04-17-2019, 07:18 PM,
#17
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-17-2019, 06:54 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  Thanks anagogy. I thought Ra said that 4D we have an electrical body.

Negatory friend. All they said is that if one were "electrically aware" of fourth density in full, the third density body would die due to incompatibility.

Electromagnetism is the basis for all spectrums of vibratory matter. So everything could be thought of as being composed of electrical fields in some fashion or another.

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
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04-17-2019, 10:21 PM,
#18
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-17-2019, 06:44 PM)anagogy Wrote:  
(04-17-2019, 06:38 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  I just don't think in 4D negative there would be medication, because that would be for a chemical body.

4D is a chemical body too.



43.16 ▶ Questioner: We know that the physical vehicle in fourth density that is used during space/time, I am assuming, is quite similar to the one that we now use in third density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The chemical elements used are not the same. However, the appearance is similar.



Here they confirm that it is still a chemical body, they just say the chemicals used are different for a 4D body than a 3D body.
Silicon based, maybe.

Not all those who wander are lost.

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04-18-2019, 10:24 AM,
#19
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-17-2019, 06:06 PM)anagogy Wrote:  Just for clarity's sake, my understanding is that when Ra uses the term "free will" they mean it in the sense of being subject to the illusion of separation (the illusion of having an independent will from the creator). That is why they alternately refer to it as the "law of confusion". It is the free will to not know the truth of things. The free will to be confused. It isn't free will in the sense that you can't make choices, as beings could still choose, but they were biased by the total security/bliss/peace of being one with the creator.

That's my vision too.

(04-17-2019, 06:06 PM)anagogy Wrote:  Having said that, I would agree that the nonfreewill third densities' (in otherwords 3rd density without the veil) time/space is different, but only in content, not in structure. So they would still reside where they will reside after death as a factor of what energy centers they have activated, just like veiled third density beings do, except they would probably use those levels much more consciously then their veiled cousins. So they wouldn't have a situation where they did not realize they were dead, for example. They would remember who they were prior to incarnation, during incarnation, and after.

I see. Looks like that on veiled 3rd densities the space/time experiences influence the state on time/space.
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04-18-2019, 05:12 PM,
#20
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-14-2019, 10:27 PM)Infinite Wrote:  Hi. If the veil is a space/time phenomena, why there are so many entities suffering on the lower astral planes? I already read about some things terrible. I have my own vision, but I'd like know others point of view.

When the veil is lifted, entities experience the suffering they've brought on others. This is a form of "healing". Some entities have their personalities implode (such is the case with Hitler) and also go through this healing. Many are not consciously aware as we are now. You know, like when you're in a dream and are not aware of your current personality - but only aware of the reality you've created for yourself.
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04-30-2019, 08:22 AM,
#21
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-17-2019, 07:18 PM)anagogy Wrote:  
(04-17-2019, 06:54 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  Thanks anagogy. I thought Ra said that 4D we have an electrical body.

Negatory friend. All they said is that if one were "electrically aware" of fourth density in full, the third density body would die due to incompatibility.

Electromagnetism is the basis for all spectrums of vibratory matter. So everything could be thought of as being composed of electrical fields in some fashion or another.


Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are no words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited still until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.


30.3 ▶ Questioner: Upon our physical death, as we call it, from this particular density and this particular incarnative experience, we lose this chemical body. Immediately after the loss of this chemical body do we maintain a different type of body? Is there still a mind/body/spirit complex at that point?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. The mind/body/spirit complex is quite intact; the physical body complex you now associate with the term body being but manifestation of a more dense and intelligently informed and powerful body complex.

30.4 ▶ Questioner: Is there any loss to the mind or spirit after this transition which we call death or any impairment of either because of the loss of this chemical body that we now have?

Ra: I am Ra. In your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of a mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex.

In other terms nothing whatever of importance is lost; the character or, shall we say, pure distillation of emotions and biases or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious for the first time, shall we say; these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience.

In terms of the spiritual, this channel is then much opened due to the lack of necessity for the forgetting characteristic of third density.
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04-30-2019, 09:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-30-2019, 09:08 AM by Nau7ik.)
#22
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-18-2019, 05:12 PM)JJCarsonian Wrote:  
(04-14-2019, 10:27 PM)Infinite Wrote:  Hi. If the veil is a space/time phenomena, why there are so many entities suffering on the lower astral planes? I already read about some things terrible. I have my own vision, but I'd like know others point of view.

When the veil is lifted, entities experience the suffering they've brought on others. This is a form of "healing". Some entities have their personalities implode (such is the case with Hitler) and also go through this healing. Many are not consciously aware as we are now. You know, like when you're in a dream and are not aware of your current personality - but only aware of the reality you've created for yourself.

Yes I agree! Great way to explain it, my friend. Going to heaven or hell is a kind of healing. Being in Hell, one’s mind is in a state of disharmony and darkness. These souls will experience the consequences of their earthly actions, thereby allowing them to alleviate their karma and to heal. It needs to happen.

Hell and Heaven are not eternal. We don’t stay there forever. It’s temproary. Why? Because we are healing and we need to continue on with the afterdeath process so that we may incarnate again and fulfill the purpose for which we were created.
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04-30-2019, 01:50 PM,
#23
RE: The veil and the "hell"
We still experience separation without the veil.  The veil just makes it unavoidable.
 

"The way we perceive the world is a direct reflection of the way we understand ourselves." ~ Rupert Spira
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04-30-2019, 01:53 PM,
#24
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-30-2019, 01:50 PM)Patrick Wrote:  We still experience separation without the veil.  The veil just makes it unavoidable.

Explain Please....Because I don't think so. If you explain your thought. Thanks a bunch
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Nau7ik
04-30-2019, 01:55 PM,
#25
RE: The veil and the "hell"
I know 4D negative is separation and doesn't have a veil.
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04-30-2019, 02:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-30-2019, 03:42 PM by kristina.)
#26
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-30-2019, 01:55 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  I know 4D negative is separation and doesn't have a veil.

True. 3rd (has the veil of forgetting), 4th and 5th density negative path experience separation without "the veil of forgetting" but in his statement he said "we". You know what I mean?I had to correct myself. Hopefully no one read my reply before my correction.
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04-30-2019, 02:51 PM,
#27
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-30-2019, 01:53 PM)kristina Wrote:  
(04-30-2019, 01:50 PM)Patrick Wrote:  We still experience separation without the veil.  The veil just makes it unavoidable.

Explain Please....Because I don't think so. If you explain your thought. Thanks a bunch

Starting with the first distortion (Free Will) the Creator experiences separation.  Or I should say the illusion of separation.  Although, that is really the same thing, because separation is always illusory.

Without the veil it is possible for any entity to feel the connection to the One whenever they want.  We can still choose to ignore this connection.

While veiled in 3d space/time, we have no choice in this mater.  We can't feel the connection and the feeling of separation is unavoidable.

In any case, any of these states is always a choice on our part.

Quote:1.7  ...in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things...

So here in 3d space/time, the choice of experiencing separation is not of the moment.  But is instead chosen before incarnating and we cannot just dispel the veil for a little while to reassure ourselves of our oneness from time to time.  We are simply stuck with the illusion of separation for our whole life down here.
 

"The way we perceive the world is a direct reflection of the way we understand ourselves." ~ Rupert Spira
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04-30-2019, 03:48 PM,
#28
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-30-2019, 02:51 PM)Patrick Wrote:  
(04-30-2019, 01:53 PM)kristina Wrote:  
(04-30-2019, 01:50 PM)Patrick Wrote:  We still experience separation without the veil.  The veil just makes it unavoidable.

Explain Please....Because I don't think so. If you explain your thought. Thanks a bunch

Starting with the first distortion (Free Will) the Creator experiences separation.  Or I should say the illusion of separation.  Although, that is really the same thing, because separation is always illusory.

Without the veil it is possible for any entity to feel the connection to the One whenever they want.  We can still choose to ignore this connection.

While veiled in 3d space/time, we have no choice in this mater.  We can't feel the connection and the feeling of separation is unavoidable.

In any case, any of these states is always a choice on our part.


Quote:1.7  ...in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things...

So here in 3d space/time, the choice of experiencing separation is not of the moment.  But is instead chosen before incarnating and we cannot just dispel the veil for a little while to reassure ourselves of our oneness from time to time.  We are simply stuck with the illusion of separation for our whole life down here.

The Creator is Unity the only way separation is experienced is through the choices of other entities through the first distortion, but The Original Thought is unity.
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04-30-2019, 03:54 PM,
#29
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-30-2019, 08:22 AM)kristina Wrote:  
(04-17-2019, 07:18 PM)anagogy Wrote:  
(04-17-2019, 06:54 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  Thanks anagogy. I thought Ra said that 4D we have an electrical body.

Negatory friend. All they said is that if one were "electrically aware" of fourth density in full, the third density body would die due to incompatibility.

Electromagnetism is the basis for all spectrums of vibratory matter. So everything could be thought of as being composed of electrical fields in some fashion or another.


Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are no words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited still until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.


30.3 ▶ Questioner: Upon our physical death, as we call it, from this particular density and this particular incarnative experience, we lose this chemical body. Immediately after the loss of this chemical body do we maintain a different type of body? Is there still a mind/body/spirit complex at that point?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. The mind/body/spirit complex is quite intact; the physical body complex you now associate with the term body being but manifestation of a more dense and intelligently informed and powerful body complex.

30.4 ▶ Questioner: Is there any loss to the mind or spirit after this transition which we call death or any impairment of either because of the loss of this chemical body that we now have?

Ra: I am Ra. In your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of a mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex.

In other terms nothing whatever of importance is lost; the character or, shall we say, pure distillation of emotions and biases or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious for the first time, shall we say; these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience.

In terms of the spiritual, this channel is then much opened due to the lack of necessity for the forgetting characteristic of third density.

Hi Kristina, I'm not sure why you posted this section? What were your thoughts on it?

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
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05-01-2019, 08:11 AM,
#30
RE: The veil and the "hell"
(04-30-2019, 01:50 PM)Patrick Wrote:  We still experience separation without the veil.  The veil just makes it unavoidable.

I disagreed at first but I think I understand now: being under the veil in 3D, the feeling of separation is unavoidable. Without the veil, separation, the path of that which is not, is chosen by free will as a guiding principle (polarity). The heart must be closed for the STS entity because the heart is painfully aware of separation.

Behind these illusions remains the Law of One, that is, Unity, Oneness.
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