Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
05-17-2019, 02:03 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-17-2019, 02:34 PM by redchartreuse.)
#1
Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
Recent research into altruistic (aka "selfless") behaviors using functional MRI has revealed that much of the difference in observed behaviors of human beings engaged in altruistic actions boils down to the fact that their brains happen to be wired to give them a much stronger jolt of neurotransmitters, like dopamine, in their reward centers when performing these types of actions, than the average person.  So, really, what is motivating these people is that they "feel good" on the inside, more so than they are actually creating positive results in the outer world.

While perhaps we might think at least it's "better" to be helping others with these behaviors, the bottom line is that addiction is addiction, and at a biochemical level, there really isn't much difference between the chronic do-gooder and a person who is addicted to cocaine, gambling, or porn, or accumulating "likes" on social media.

Perhaps being addicted to "doing good" is even more insidious and difficult to escape from, since there is so much social praise and admiration which gets heaped upon those who outwardly practice activism or philanthropy, which further reinforces the neural circuitry underlying the addiction.

Whereas for other types of addictive behaviors, there is more of a risk associated in terms of losing social favor, thus driving a person to engage their addiction "in the dark", being a goody-goody allows a person to feed their addiction out in the open, and even garner further rewards for doing so.

Now, of course, a handful of studies doesn't necessarily equate to incontrovertible truth on a topic, however I think if we dive a little deeper into the shadow side of altruism leading to activism leading to martyrdom, we can see pretty quickly that these actors are often times not as really as "selfless" as would appear on the surface.

For one thing- there tends to be this strong air of self-righteousness in that whatever method a person is using to achieve their goal is the "one and only true way" to go about doing things.  

Secondly, when challenged to cough up some kind of documentation or evidence that their actions actually DID end up helping people at the receiving end, seemingly altruistic types often become extremely defensive and vitriolic in their response.  For example, "Well at least I'm TRYING TO DO SOMETHING, while you are sitting there doing NOTHING but being a naysayer!!"  

Ostensibly, somebody who is so concerned about helping others would be at least equally as concerned that their efforts were effective.  As seen in the real world, recipients of so-called "humanitarian" efforts often end up in worse off than they were before and yet... so few seem to care about that.  The ongoing humanitarian debacle in Puerto Rico following the hurricane is just one example that comes to mind.

Another example would be how certain vegan and animal rights activists believe that Trojan-horsing videos of abominable conditions at factory farms is the way to get people to eat less meat, whereas in reality it has been the efforts of companies creating and marketing tasty vegan products like the "Impossible Burger" which have turned out to have the greatest effect in terms of changing people's behavior.

If we look beyond the surface of the so-called "personality shell" martyrs often exhibit characteristics that are quite selfish.

Since the definition of martyrdom means bringing harm upon oneself while "helping" others, we can often see how that self-harm ripples out into the days, months, and years ahead.   And since nobody exists in a vacuum (one would think so-called "selfless" people recognize this more than anybody)... the effect is often that friends and family of the martyr find themselves having to put their own hopes, dreams, and goals aside in order to take care of the now-damaged martyr, assuming they haven't literally killed themselves in the process.

Or at the very least, those whose lives most closely touch that of the martyr, find themselves constantly pulled in to their latest scheme to "help others" thus depriving them of the chance to maybe do something of their own creation.

And then there is this little tip-off to an underlying addiction fueling the behavior: They often just can't seem to stop.  Not even to take a brief rest to recharge or attend to self-care, which of course further drives the martyrdom.

Curious to hear some thoughts and perspectives.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-17-2019, 02:23 PM,
#2
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
Martyrs often lose thier lives or risk them, not much pay off there. Do you think Jesus was self righteous? Or Mother Teresa? Just wondering...
Your joy is your sorrow unmasked
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-17-2019, 02:29 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-17-2019, 02:36 PM by redchartreuse.)
#3
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-17-2019, 02:23 PM)kristina Wrote:  Martyrs often lose thier lives or risk them, not much pay off there.

Did you read what I wrote?  The payoff is the "good feelings" they get in their brains from dopamine surges.

Just like a gambling or cocaine addict, the fact they are risking their lives is not sufficient enough to deter the behavior.

Quote:Do you think Jesus was self righteous? Or Mother Teresa? Just wondering...

I know that these people were human.  Other than that, I don't honestly feel that I can give much of an opinion on them, since the majority of what I supposedly know about them has come from overly praiseful characterizations and eulogizations of them given in the literature and media.

One thing I feel I can say about Jesus is that he seemed genuinely concerned that his efforts resulted in the desired effect, and was not at all concerned about putting on a good show and receiving outward praise, honors, rewards, plaques, dedications, accolades, and digital "likes".  He also seemed genuinely unconcerned whether or not his followers "liked" his personality or not.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-17-2019, 02:41 PM,
#4
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
You will always find a "mixed bag" of motives in any group/type of people you wish to examine. Are there those type of people with the traits you describe in the altruistic group... sure. There also are those people in that group that don't have those motives in their service to others life choice. Maybe I'm not "getting it" from your post, but I'm not sure what the "point" is.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 2 users Like krb's post:
ada, kristina
05-17-2019, 03:09 PM,
#5
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
Mother Teresa had the people under her care living in deplorable conditions. But when she needed medical help, she got the best.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 2 users Like IndigoGeminiWolf's post:
Cannon, Cyan
05-17-2019, 03:18 PM,
#6
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
I wont poke mother theresa with a 10 foot pole, nor will i touch people like dalai lama, mahatma ghandi or jesus.

Theresa though that diseases were uplifiting and refused to give proper treatment to people under her care

Dalai lama is a reincariation of someone who eliminated one of the branches of buddhism for supporting the "wrong side" in a civil war

Ghandi thought black people were animals and in general was in favor of not giving them rights

Jesus ... Nuff said.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-17-2019, 04:19 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-17-2019, 04:24 PM by redchartreuse.)
#7
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-17-2019, 02:41 PM)krb Wrote:  You will always find a "mixed bag" of motives in any group/type of people you wish to examine. Are there those type of people with the traits you describe in the altruistic group... sure. There also are those people in that group that don't have those motives in their service to others life choice. Maybe I'm not "getting it" from your post, but I'm not sure what the "point" is.

Hmm. And here I thought the OP was chock full of points! Big Grin

One additional point might be what IGW, Cyan, and indirectly kristina, alluded to: that we have a tendency to put certain personages up on pedestals and engage in idolatry with them, when they are really no more human that the rest of us.

Another which I mentioned is the consideration of whether or not we actually accomplished the results we intended with our "good works," or even really care so long as it made us "feel good" on the inside.

Another which I mentioned is perhaps the detrimental effects upon those closest to the martyr, who perhaps get led astray from their own path in their efforts to clean up after their mess.

And then there is the relavence to the Ra material, in general, where we can see how the "good intentions" of those biased toward martyrdom actually end up derailing the evolutionary program for an entire planet for thousands of years.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-17-2019, 04:59 PM,
#8
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
Even if Ra is always careful not to include his own bias, it’s very clear that he doesn’t think martyrdom is a good choice considering one’s own path, although he’ll respect it as it is a choice...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 2 users Like flofrog's post:
ada, kristina
05-17-2019, 05:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-17-2019, 06:17 PM by redchartreuse.)
#9
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-17-2019, 04:59 PM)flofrog Wrote:  Even if Ra is always careful not to include his own bias, it’s very clear that he doesn’t think martyrdom is a good choice considering one’s own path, although he’ll respect it as it is a choice...

If martyrdom is a form of addiction, why would we consider it to be any more of a "choice" than other kinds of addictive behaviors?

You are right, though, that Ra gives very clear indications against martyrdom in the material.

I found the martyrdom was mentioned in 14 replies, and no less than 9 of them were directly cautionary to the channel herself. At one point, they all but spelled out that martyrdom was the "chink in the armor" that opened up the channel to negative greeting.

And even with all this, the channel clearly struggled to take Ra's advice to heart. Which is another indication of the addictive nature of it.

Ra also mentioned that, some 2000-ish years on, the entity known as "Jesus" who incarnated with a plan to martyr itself had "not yet, to any significant degree, balanced these distortions" which I personally find fascinating.

So in seeing all the fanaticism, unintended consequences and atrocious acts committed "in his name" this entity holds fast to its self-righteousness and refuses to balance itself with wisdom.

This is actually suggestive that the addictive nature of martyrdom transcends brain chemistry.

So here we are, with hordes of entities on the planet hailing from a density where love has been balanced with wisdom, yet they mostly go unheeded by the populace, who meanwhile continue to march innocent children off every Sunday to places which have been shown to be breeding grounds for pedophiles, all because one man decided to allow himself to be hung on a cross in order to supposedly demonstrate "love."

I'm failing to see any upside to martyrdom here.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-17-2019, 05:54 PM,
#10
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
I think martyrhood denotes a imbalances in the orange ray, which distorts the perception of other-selves into what they are not (unlike the self). For example a lack of self-esteem tends to make one step upon themselves, because there is a belief that others are of greater value and so "by serving these others" the self believes itself to find worth. That is clearly not green-ray love.

I think because the STO is the path acceptance, some believe it to mean it is the path of self-denial, which it is not so. A bit like how the material states that true forgiveness has to include the self, true love for others has to include the self and true acceptance has to include the self, there is no belittling of the self in green ray and that is more obvious when you realize that the self is simply the incarnation of others that you are the closest to, the one with which you are the most intimate. Acceptance is a whole circle and it starts with what you are closest to, the self. If you can't accept the things you contain, then you cannot accept them sincerely in others either.

I can get the idea of wanting to be a martyr, but I think that falls away when you realize that a lot about being STO is inspiring others and belittling the self is not what you would want to inspire someone you love. Then again, it may not make sense for someone that struggles with the orange ray.

I think if there is a total absence of sense of victimhood, there may be something that could be confused with martyrhood, but that is not martyrhood, that can take place, as death is always just transformation. But you would have to see it as that it is your own choice for yourself, which denies becoming a symbol for a cause.

Anyway, like always, if you resolve self and other-selves as that they are truly one, paradoxes may fall away.

There is no self in the sense of separate individuality, yet there is one prevailing identity.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 1 user Likes Minyatur's post:
ada
05-17-2019, 05:55 PM,
#11
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
All service is service to self
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 1 user Likes I am Shayne's post:
ada
05-17-2019, 06:12 PM,
#12
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
Here is what Ra said:

Quote:75.15 ▶ Questioner: The chink then, as I understand it, was originally created by the decision of Jesus to take the path of martyrdom? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is, in relation to this instrument, quite correct. It is aware of certain over-balances towards love, even to martyrdom but has not yet, to any significant degree, balanced these distortions. We do not imply that this course of unbridled compassion has any fault but affirm its perfection. It is an example of love which has served as beacon to many.

For those who seek further, the consequences of martyrdom must be considered, for in martyrdom lies the end of the opportunity, in the density of the martyr, to offer love and light. Each entity must seek its deepest path.

So the imbalance in this case is love over wisdom, even through Jesus was able to graduate to fifth density. Ra also states that his martyrdom has served as a beacon to many.

Ra cautions people to consider the consequences of becoming a martyr, but I do not see any outright condemnation of it.
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 5 users Like Merrick's post:
ada, Bring4th_Jade, Glow, kristina, RitaJC
05-17-2019, 06:12 PM,
#13
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-17-2019, 05:39 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:  Ra also mentioned that, some 2000-ish years on, the entity known as "Jesus" who incarnated with a plan to martyr itself had "not yet, to any significant degree, balanced these distortions" which I personally find fascinating.
His current incarnation is presently balancing these distortions

Quote:So in seeing all the unintended consequences and atrocious acts committed "in his name" this entity holds fast to its self-righteousness and refuses to balance itself with wisdom.
Hold on there. The people who commit these acts in his name do so because of their desire and distortion for power. They would've done so in other circumstances had the religion or knowledge not been there. The religion is used as an excuse. That doesn't mean what Jesus taught was anything less valid, valuable or true.

Quote:So here we are, with hordes of entities on the planet hailing from a density where love has been balanced with wisdom, yet they mostly go unheeded by the populace, meanwhile they continue to march innocent children off every Sunday to places which have been shown to be breeding grounds for pedophiles, all because one man decided to allow himself to be hung on a cross in order to supposedly demonstrate "love."
The knowledge that Jesus imparted can produce wonderful results. I've seen the very best. The main problem are self-oriented people. They are in religion as an excuse to act bad. They are in communities such as this one because they want to be service to self, negative oriented.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 4 users Like speedforce131's post:
krb, kristina, Merrick, RitaJC
05-17-2019, 06:21 PM,
#14
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
Jesus’s message should not be confused with those who distort his message. Carla was a devout Christian and by all accounts her life was better for it. Organized religion is a power structure, and will attract those who seek power. Real spiritual seeking comes from within, and if you just read the words ascribed to Jesus without commentary or editorial, you’ll get a surefire guide to graduating to 4th density positive. Jesus absolutely was a great spiritual teacher and rejecting his message because of people who never understood his message and use his name to justify their whims shows a lack of discernment.
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 6 users Like Merrick's post:
Bring4th_Jade, flofrog, krb, kristina, RitaJC, speedforce131
05-17-2019, 06:25 PM,
#15
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-17-2019, 05:54 PM)Minyatur Wrote:  I think martyrhood denotes a imbalances in the orange ray, which distorts the perception of other-selves into what they are not (unlike the self). For example a lack of self-esteem tends to make one step upon themselves, because there is a belief that others are of greater value and so "by serving these others" the self believes itself to find worth. That is clearly not green-ray love.

I think because the STO is the path acceptance, some believe it to mean it is the path of self-denial, which it is not so. A bit like how the material states that true forgiveness has to include the self, true love for others has to include the self and true acceptance has to include the self, there is no belittling of the self in green ray and that is more obvious when you realize that the self is simply the incarnation of others that you are the closest to, the one with which you are the most intimate. Acceptance is a whole circle and it starts with what you are closest to, the self. If you can't accept the things you contain, then you cannot accept them sincerely in others either.

I can get the idea of wanting to be a martyr, but I think that falls away when you realize that a lot about being STO is inspiring others and belittling the self is not what you would want to inspire someone you love. Then again, it may not make sense for someone that struggles with the orange ray.

I think if there is a total absence of sense of victimhood, there may be something that could be confused with martyrhood, but that is not martyrhood, that can take place, as death is always just transformation. But you would have to see it as that it is your own choice for yourself, which denies becoming a symbol for a cause.

Anyway, like always, if you resolve self and other-selves as that they are truly one, paradoxes may fall away.

Agreed. Seems that so many problems arise from this illusory boundary between self and other.

Yet so many of our esteemed "spiritual" guides and mentors are steadfast in that there is something to be gained by little game we set up for ourselves, what with the veil, and all the attendant dogma about karma and "learning lessons" and using suffering as a teaching tool.

Personally, the only lesson I see here is the one which would result in souls permanently turning away from playing insane little games of separation, and rejoining the Creation at large, already in progress.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-17-2019, 06:54 PM,
#16
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-17-2019, 05:39 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:  ... So in seeing all the unintended consequences and atrocious acts committed "in his name" this entity holds fast to its self-righteousness and refuses to balance itself with wisdom.

... So here we are, with hordes of entities on the planet hailing from a density where love has been balanced with wisdom, yet they mostly go unheeded by the populace, meanwhile they continue to march innocent children off every Sunday to places which have been shown to be breeding grounds for pedophiles, all because one man decided to allow himself to be hung on a cross in order to supposedly demonstrate "love."

I'm sort of puzzled by this thread. You seem to wish to make a quick leap from flaws of altruistic people to martyrdom. It appears from the tone of your posts that you seem to be quite emotionally "invested" in the subject of martyrs. Specifically "Jesus" seems to be triggering the greatest "angst" in you.

You paint with a rather broad brush the "evils" of all of Christendom... "march innocent children"... "breeding ground for pedophiles". I'm not going to defend the INDIVIDUALS involved throughout history (or presently) that have committed crimes in the name of another entity. But you're just plain wrong to paint everything connected with any particular faith with accusations of pedophilia and atrocious crimes as if that's all that every sect or division of Christianity (or any other faith) is about.

Honestly, the tone of your posts (at least to me) sounds like you have an "axe to grind". Yes, I may be totally wrong, but (to me) that's how you're coming across.

All the above is offered without judgment or malice.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 5 users Like krb's post:
hounsic, kristina, Merrick, RitaJC, speedforce131
05-17-2019, 06:59 PM,
#17
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
I think sometimes we use "martyr" in quite an extreme way. As Minyatur said, a lot of what we consider as "martyrdom" is orange ray blockage - not anything to say about the green ray. Just because someone is selfless doesn't mean that they are a martyr.

The reason Ra warns Carla about being a martyr is because she was literally willing to die each time she went into trance, so devoted she was to making Don happy. This was probably a bit of an extreme mental configuration and this gave the negative 5th density entity a strong distortion to work with.

Quote:To a mind/body/spirit complex which is starving, the appropriate response is the feeding of the body. You may extrapolate from this.

A martyr then is someone who would give away all their food so that they wouldn't have any, and would then starve to death or severely malnourish themselves. Someone who is an ascetic and donates a lot of time/energy/money to help others... this is not martyrdom, until it begins to detract from their quality of experience. If they feel like a martyr, like they are sacrificing so much that it is causing them discomfort, then so begins the path of giving until one has none left for themselves. If they recognize the infinite nature of energy and reality, and are able to operate from a position of selflessness without depleting the self, this should be celebrated and not scorned, dopamine or not.

The dopamine hit you speak of would be a consequence of "this logos has a bias towards kindness", imo... a small reward for a good deed. The real reason is that because when you do good for one, you do good for yourself, too. So there is a point to be made that a selfless act is never truly selfless, but as long as it is made in unity and not separation, then it is good and encouraged. In fact I'm kind of confused, was the point of your OP to discourage others from doing good deeds, or cause them to confuse selflessness with selfishness?

We have to clear the energy centers seriatim, which means in order from red to indigo. Until we truly understand the energy of the heart chakra, we shouldn't be advocating the use of wisdom over love in our veiled experience - it's a dangerous configuration, imo.

Quote:To answer your second question more fully we may say that it is correct that radiation without the necessity of response begins with blue ray although the green ray, being the great transitional ray, must be given all careful consideration, for until transfers of energy of all types has been experienced and mastered to a great extent, there will be blockages in the blue and indigo radiations.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 4 users Like Bring4th_Jade's post:
flofrog, kristina, RitaJC, speedforce131
05-17-2019, 07:38 PM,
#18
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-17-2019, 05:39 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:  
(05-17-2019, 04:59 PM)flofrog Wrote:  Even if Ra is always careful not to include his own bias, it’s very clear that he doesn’t think martyrdom is a good choice considering one’s own path, although he’ll respect it as it is a choice...

If martyrdom is a form of addiction, why would we consider it to be any more of a "choice" than other kinds of addictive behaviors?  

You are right, though, that Ra gives very clear indications against martyrdom in the material.

I found the martyrdom was mentioned in 14 replies, and no less than 9 of them were directly cautionary to the channel herself.  At one point, they all but spelled out that martyrdom was the "chink in the armor" that opened up the channel to negative greeting.

And even with all this, the channel clearly struggled to take Ra's advice to heart.  Which is another indication of the addictive nature of it.

Ra also mentioned that, some 2000-ish years on, the entity known as "Jesus" who incarnated with a plan to martyr itself had "not yet, to any significant degree, balanced these distortions" which I personally find fascinating.

So in seeing all the fanaticism, unintended consequences and atrocious acts committed "in his name" this entity holds fast to its self-righteousness and refuses to balance itself with wisdom.

This is actually suggestive that the addictive nature of martyrdom transcends brain chemistry.

So here we are, with hordes of entities on the planet hailing from a density where love has been balanced with wisdom, yet they mostly go unheeded by the populace, who meanwhile continue to march innocent children off every Sunday to places which have been shown to be breeding grounds for pedophiles, all because one man decided to allow himself to be hung on a cross in order to supposedly demonstrate "love."

I'm failing to see any upside to martyrdom here.

So every church is full of pedophiles? lol.
Your joy is your sorrow unmasked
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-17-2019, 09:08 PM,
#19
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
To take back what Jade said, absolutely Ra was worried for Carla’s own balance, and truly everyone benefited that she could continue living for a while more Wink

I totally agree that good feeling coming from doing what we think good deed is selfish ! Lol. For like so many years I didn’t feel good about myself but now when I do I kind of think well isn’t that nice, I should have felt like that all my life Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 2 users Like flofrog's post:
kristina, RitaJC
05-17-2019, 09:54 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-17-2019, 10:24 PM by krb.)
#20
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
So what if we feel good when something we do for others is of benefit to them? Is it wrong to have a "win-win" situation? Helping one helps all. What or where's the problem? Are there people that are disingenuous in service and primarily seek the favor of others, by putting on a show for others to see? Yes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 3 users Like krb's post:
flofrog, kristina, RitaJC
05-17-2019, 10:08 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-17-2019, 11:08 PM by Foha.)
#21
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
I hope I can cough up a good response.
I felt physicality to be inextricably tied to spiritual events.

To me, the physical universe is just the recorded log of what spirits role-play over.
So if someone says "Oh, you didn't get over that cold-- your body decided to", I laugh at how incredibly confident they are in an incarnation hall-marked with confusion and ignorance.'

*edit*:
I'm slightly annoyed by your use of the language to frame your reasoning in such a one-sided way.
It feels obvious to me -- much like how obvious things must seem to you -- that you ponder something in-so-far as it's amusing and mistake "amusing" for a "musing".
I remember trying to give my 2 cents the last time you were "curious" for thoughts and responses, only to be misunderstood as "misunderstanding" your authority in Physics.

Why do you ask such leading questions, with titles in your threads that are akin to "one weird trick" to get us to click on them?
And why are you trying to get selfless people to "cough up" a good response when you've already made up your mind that they are silly ninnies that can't take control of their physical vessels, or realize that their brain itself is working against them?
Or at the very least-- that their tiny brains can't comprehend why you find these logical musings as amusing as you do?

I'm having a bad week, so I hope that me being a martyr like the rest of these selfless twats you are referring to can humor you as I fall on your karmic sword.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 4 users Like Foha's post:
flofrog, kristina, Relax, RitaJC
05-18-2019, 07:18 AM,
#22
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-17-2019, 09:54 PM)krb Wrote:  So what if we feel good when something we do for others is of benefit to them? Is it wrong to have a "win-win" situation? Helping one helps all. What or where's the problem? Are there people that are disingenuous in service and primarily seek the favor of others, by putting on a show for others to see? Yes.

I absolutely agree in this comment that you gave and those above that you made. I want to consider that what is possibly being done is confusing concepts with thoughtless acts (acts without wisdom) of extreme love. Like, I would rather die than to watch a child go hungry and empty out my cabinets to save it's life while I don't eat or eat little. My reasoning may be something like this....I have lived and seen much but this little one has not experienced not one iota of life. I'll do what it takes so that it may experience it's life. Even if I die. That was an example. Maybe you get a dopamine hit but eventually you won't as you die. lol. Then we have the atrocities commited by a "church" but not all of it's members. It seems the members a victims in many cases until they awaken in the real truth or they may not.
Dopamine hits and evil churches are concepts left to the experiencer to judge whether they like the concept or reject it. Our brains are wired as they are wired. If someone were a STS 100% they enjoy, I mean ENJOY, watching others suffer and they too would get the same dopamine hit. So now we are down to matters of the heart. Or desires and will.
Jesus, Ghandi, Mother Teresa and others are humans like was pointed out in previous answers and have distortions which means they are imperfect just as us. I think motives was covered as to why those give without thinking or utilizing wisdom like a knee jerk reaction and why others apply wisdom. I think it comes down to desire and will.
Your joy is your sorrow unmasked
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 2 users Like kristina's post:
krb, RitaJC
05-18-2019, 07:24 AM,
#23
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-17-2019, 10:08 PM)Foha Wrote:  I hope I can cough up a good response.
I felt physicality to be inextricably tied to spiritual events.

To me, the physical universe is just the recorded log of what spirits role-play over.
So if someone says "Oh, you didn't get over that cold-- your body decided to", I laugh at how incredibly confident they are in an incarnation hall-marked with confusion and ignorance.'

*edit*:
I'm slightly annoyed by your use of the language to frame your reasoning in such a one-sided way.
It feels obvious to me -- much like how obvious things must seem to you -- that you ponder something in-so-far as it's amusing and mistake "amusing" for a "musing".
I remember trying to give my 2 cents the last time you were "curious" for thoughts and responses, only to be misunderstood as "misunderstanding" your authority in Physics.

Why do you ask such leading questions, with titles in your threads that are akin to "one weird trick" to get us to click on them?
And why are you trying to get selfless people to "cough up" a good response when you've already made up your mind that they are silly ninnies that can't take control of their physical vessels, or realize that their brain itself is working against them?
Or at the very least-- that their tiny brains can't comprehend why you find these logical musings as amusing as you do?

I'm having a bad week, so I hope that me being a martyr like the rest of these selfless twats you are referring to can humor you as I fall on your karmic sword.

Everyone should appreciate complete honesty every once in a while. As in your answer. Blush Heart
Your joy is your sorrow unmasked
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 2 users Like kristina's post:
flofrog, RitaJC
05-18-2019, 07:44 AM,
#24
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
The problem with the OP's theory is that EVERYTHING we do that makes us feel good gives us a hit of dopamine. It's one of the ways that biology has developed to encourage survival. Eating things high in fat or sugar? Dopamine. Hugging another person? Dopamine! So since we are a tribal species, it makes sense that we get dopamine for helping the tribe.

However, we can get dopamine from doing bad things, too! Do you like to make people cry? Well, I'm sure you get a nice hit of dopamine every time you push someone over the edge. Even people who self harm do so because it gives them dopamine. Dopamine is actually there to condition us to be "addicted" to ANY behavior that seems to benefit us. I bet "bad people" get a "much stronger hit of dopamine" from doing bad things than the "average person" does, too. Anyway, again, I fail to see the point, unless you are just trying to be subversive and intentionally promote a negative use of the Law of One philosophy.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 4 users Like Bring4th_Jade's post:
krb, kristina, Relax, RitaJC
05-18-2019, 09:14 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-18-2019, 09:25 AM by redchartreuse.)
#25
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
(05-18-2019, 07:44 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:  The problem with the OP's theory is that EVERYTHING we do that makes us feel good gives us a hit of dopamine. It's one of the ways that biology has developed to encourage survival. Eating things high in fat or sugar? Dopamine. Hugging another person? Dopamine! So since we are a tribal species, it makes sense that we get dopamine for helping the tribe.

However, we can get dopamine from doing bad things, too! Do you like to make people cry? Well, I'm sure you get a nice hit of dopamine every time you push someone over the edge. Even people who self harm do so because it gives them dopamine. Dopamine is actually there to condition us to be "addicted" to ANY behavior that seems to benefit us. I bet "bad people" get a "much stronger hit of dopamine" from doing bad things than the "average person" does, too. Anyway, again, I fail to see the point, unless you are just trying to be subversive and intentionally promote a negative use of the Law of One philosophy.

You've basically restated the point yourself more than once, so I'm actually not sure whether you have some strong bias preventing you from seeing it, or if you have your own.hidden agenda here

Martyrdom is highly topical in this forum. Is there some reason it is a taboo subject here in this forum? Is there some reason you feel obliged to defend martyrdom, despite Ra being unequivocal that it is an unwise, and opens a door to negative greeting?

I take objection to a moderator coming into a thread and publicly accusing a poster (any poster) of being subversive. You are out of bounds.

Does it give you a dopamine rush to publicly assert your "authority" in this place? Surely you are aware it would be more appropriate to engage me in PM, and yet you chose this route? Or did you choose it? Perhaps it is just a programmed reaction?

What, exactly, would be this "negative use" of LoO philosophy that you suspect I am promoting?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-18-2019, 09:51 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-18-2019, 10:05 AM by Glow.)
#26
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
It does very much seem you are trying to belittle people’s sto orientation to little more than chemistry. It honestly does come across as an agenda maybe though the agenda is to make yourself feel better verse promoting a closed heart.

I also do not think that Ra would say martyrdom is unwise for this 3D experience except that it removes the option for further service. Martyrdom is love unbalanced with wisdom aka 4th density positive, but that is actually where we are trying to move the collective consciousness to 4th before 5th where love is THEN balanced.

Without love to balance with wisdom... you’ve just skipped positive polarization and are on course for 4d negative.

As to why extreme polarization aka martyrdom could attract psychic greeting that is the same for any extreme light or sto service. As in Carla’s case it attracts attention from negative other selves to remove said light. It is a beacon to others to awaken and find their own light. Of course the ones seeking to stay in the shadow would want that removed.

Still the extreme light of martyrdom has drawn many lost out of the darkness to the light so certain has its place as we move towards 4D positive. I’m not so much promoting martyrdom but see it does have its place.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 5 users Like Glow's post:
David_1, krb, kristina, Relax, RitaJC
05-18-2019, 10:00 AM,
#27
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
So what if Jade's a mod, lol. Tongue Doesn't mean she can't express her opinion..
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 3 users Like ada's post:
flofrog, Relax, RitaJC
05-18-2019, 10:10 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-18-2019, 11:20 AM by Glow.)
#28
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
Agreed Blossom, that has never been an issue in any other thread.

And to quote Foha’s astute observation

“*edit*:
I'm slightly annoyed by your use of the language to frame your reasoning in such a one-sided way.”

Might you just be irritated with Jade because she is mirroring back your own energy of assured correctness.
No offence intended but we all need a mirror,
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 3 users Like Glow's post:
kristina, Relax, RitaJC
05-18-2019, 10:34 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-18-2019, 11:14 AM by Bring4th_Jade.)
#29
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
Why is it more appropriate to engage you in PM? I'm not only talking to you. I'm talking to everyone who reads this thread. I spoke out against my problem with the subversion, because I think people need to speak up when they see things that are dangerous.

To me, my estimation of your OP is that you are condemning people who do good acts. Am I missing something?

Ra is not unequivocal that martyrdom is unwise, Ra says that martyrdom is perfect and a beacon to many. My point was to correct misconceptions about what "martyrdom" is and isn't, because you are making a lot of proclamations about "martyrdom". According to Ra, martyrdom is selfless service unto death. And the only reason it is unwanted is because with death, the incarnation ends, and so does the loci from which you have created to do service. Do you really know people who are literally killing themselves because they are too selfless?

Quote:75.15 ▶ Questioner: The chink then, as I understand it, was originally created by the decision of Jesus to take the path of martyrdom? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, in relation to this instrument, quite correct. It is aware of certain over-balances towards love, even to martyrdom but has not yet, to any significant degree, balanced these distortions. We do not imply that this course of unbridled compassion has any fault but affirm its perfection. It is an example of love which has served as beacon to many.

For those who seek further, the consequences of martyrdom must be considered, for in martyrdom lies the end of the opportunity, in the density of the martyr, to offer love and light. Each entity must seek its deepest path.

Quote:It is indeed so that all mind/body/spirit complexes shall die to the third-density illusion; that is, that each yellow-ray physical-complex body shall cease to be viable. It is a misnomer to, for this reason alone, call each mind/body/spirit complex a martyr, for this term is reserved for those who lay down their lives for the service they may provide to others. We may encourage meditation upon the functions of the will.

Basically the gist of your OP is that you find people who are too service focused to be annoying. Here are some quotes:

Quote:So, really, what is motivating these people is that they "feel good" on the inside, more so than they are actually creating positive results in the outer world.

Quote:the bottom line is that addiction is addiction, and at a biochemical level, there really isn't much difference between the chronic do-gooder and a person who is addicted to cocaine, gambling, or porn, or accumulating "likes" on social media.

Quote:Whereas for other types of addictive behaviors, there is more of a risk associated in terms of losing social favor, thus driving a person to engage their addiction "in the dark", being a goody-goody allows a person to feed their addiction out in the open, and even garner further rewards for doing so.

Quote:the shadow side of altruism

Quote:If we look beyond the surface of the so-called "personality shell" martyrs often exhibit characteristics that are quite selfish.

Quote:the effect is often that friends and family of the martyr find themselves having to put their own hopes, dreams, and goals aside in order to take care of the now-damaged martyr

These are extreme proclamations, and seems to imply that selflessness is selfishness. Most people need encouragement to step into the open heart, not out of it, and I think OPs like yours do nothing but discourage people from using the open heart.

Quote:Curious to hear some thoughts and perspectives.

I think your thoughts are subversive and I disagree. What makes them subversive is that you take a thread of truth (service unto death is not balanced) and you twist it into a frame of view that makes other doubt their motivations for service to others. This kind of stuff is dangerous, in my opinion - more dangerous than the potential negative greeting that could occur if you are too selfless. Again, Ra was talking to Carla about the negative fifth density entity who was targeting her because she was doing extremely magically powerful stuff. Most people are not in danger of dying because of the service they choose, like Carla was. Carla literally would think, "I'm okay if I don't wake up" every time she went into trance. This is why Ra was very firm with Carla to work on her martyr tendencies - they were literal martyr tendencies.

And if people are having a problem with it, I can put a disclaimer in my signature that says "I do not speak for Austin, Garry, Gary, or L/L Research" if this is too confusing to see me as having a singular opinion even though my forum name has a prefix. We have a generic "bring4th_mod" account that we would use if it was coming from group consensus. Otherwise, I have not changed my style of participating in these forums hardly at all since becoming moderator, and I think it would be worse if I consciously tried to change my "tone" than if I just continue to post what I feel as a student who has studied this material in depth. And I'm not claiming to be an expert, I just am sure with my familiarity of the material because I've read it so many times. To me this seems like an obvious misinterpretation to anyone who has sincerely meditated on these concepts.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 8 users Like Bring4th_Jade's post:
David_1, flofrog, Glow, hounsic, kristina, Merrick, Relax, RitaJC
05-18-2019, 10:40 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-18-2019, 10:41 AM by Glow.)
#30
RE: Are martyrs actually selfish auto-addicts?
You really have studied it. You are an incredible resource and your ability and willingness to so freely share your wealth of knowledge is appreciated.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 5 users Like Glow's post:
ada, flofrog, Relax, RitaJC, schubert




Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)