Some detailed information please
05-17-2019, 02:16 PM,
#1
Some detailed information please
What is the most profound differences between meditation, light trance and trance? Is there anything from the Law of One that I can read in regards to the differences in these processes?
Thanks all
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05-18-2019, 02:04 AM,
#2
RE: Some detailed information please
Meditation doesn't necessarily always include inducing trance. but getting into trance often requires some form of meditation. different methods are there.. our folk musicians start improvising and progress until they get into such states and they keep going. (not many of them can do this skillfully though)

Meditations for different purposes don't include going into a trance. Visualization, contemplation or healing, ...

The difference between light or deeper trance is how deep one can go into trance. I think it's simply manipulating the frequency of brain waves.

State Frequency range State of mind
Delta 0.5Hz –4Hz Deep sleep
Theta 4Hz–8Hz Drowsiness (also first stage of sleep)
Alpha 8Hz–14Hz Relaxed but alert
Beta 14Hz–30Hz Highly alert and focused

The goal is to get closer to those states that are similar to sleep/dreaming, but keep the conscious mind awake.

I hope I'm not wrong. Big Grin
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05-18-2019, 02:32 AM,
#3
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-17-2019, 02:16 PM)kristina Wrote:  What is the most profound differences between meditation, light trance and trance? Is there anything from the Law of One that I can read in regards to the differences in these processes?
Thanks all

Personally, I don't really see a difference. The difference is mainly one of depth, or intensity. Or, that is to say: how deep is the trance?

It is important to note, that scientists still aren't entirely sure what a "trance" is. But I will tell you what I think a trance is based on my personal experience.

A trance is a state of dissociation. By that I mean it is when a portion of your consciousness splits off from the main body of consciousness. It is a normal experience that occurs to free up cognitive resources. It happens whenever consciousness "loops". So whenever you think repetitive thoughts, your mind is traveling around in a loop of consciousness. At some point you becomes "used" to this loop, and you get the feeling that you can think "other thoughts" while another part of your mind is still performing this "loop". One example is: learning to ride a bike. Once you've learned to ride a bike, or drive a car, or jump rope, you can perform that activity while thinking other thoughts. It feels like the automatic part you (the subconscious self) is doing the repetitive task, while the non automatic part you (the conscious self) is thinking different thoughts.

This is a basic state of trance. The loop that generates the state of dissociation (the trance) I would call the Trance Generating Loop (TGL), and the dissociated trance state produced by that I would call the Dissociated Trance Plane (DTP). So with meditation the loop is something usually like: focusing on your breath, or focusing on muscle relaxation, or clearing your mind, or repeating a mantra, or visualizing a color. After enough repetition, you "space out". This is when the dissociation occurs.

The reason why this happens is for energy conservation reasons. It is more efficient to do this. It frees up cognitive energy.

There are various kinds of trances. For example, there are meditation trances, where the TGL is entirely within your mind. There are hypnotic trances where the TGL is outside of your mind. There are also other forms of trance that are more complex, which include multiple interlocking structures of TGL's and DTP's. Basically what determines what type of trance it is is based on where the TGL occurs, and where the DTP occurs. And also how many of each there are. And how many elements to the loops there are.

Whenever you dissociate, you may feel perfectly conscious, but you're actually not, you are in an altered state of consciousness. For example, in hypnosis, the reason you become increasingly "suggestible" is because the loop the hypnotist has you engage in disables critical judgment (that's the whole point). When this occurs, you automatically and uncritically accept the hypnotists suggestions. Whenever a cognitive loop occurs long enough to produce a significant dissociation, some cognitive abilities will becomes disabled, and others will become enabled. There is a change in energy use, mentally. For example, you may have a glazed look on your eyes, and may be staring out into space, you may feel more creative or more relaxed, or have less awareness of your surroundings, but perhaps increased internal awareness. Anesthesia may be present.

Yogis often go into self imposed meditation trances where they try to develop occult powers. This usually takes a long time to develop. First they try to introduce a TGL and corresponding DTP that disables one cognitive function, and then perhaps another one, and then another one. Slowly, over time, other more subtle, yet natural, cognitive functions are amplified with suggestion. Eventually, like letting good wine clarify they gradually crystallize an occult power like clairvoyance or other "sidhis" or powers.

It is a complex but interesting subject.

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
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05-18-2019, 06:42 AM,
#4
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-18-2019, 02:04 AM)Cainite Wrote:  Meditation doesn't necessarily always include inducing trance. but getting into trance often requires some form of meditation. different methods are there.. our folk musicians start improvising and progress until they get into such states and they keep going. (not many of them can do this skillfully though)

Meditations for different purposes don't include going into a trance. Visualization, contemplation or healing, ...

The difference between light or deeper trance is how deep one can go into trance. I think it's simply manipulating the frequency of brain waves.

State  Frequency range State of mind
Delta      0.5Hz –4Hz     Deep sleep
Theta    4Hz–8Hz        Drowsiness (also first stage of sleep)
Alpha    8Hz–14Hz        Relaxed but alert
Beta           14Hz–30Hz        Highly alert and focused

The goal is to get closer to those states that are similar to sleep/dreaming, but keep the conscious mind awake.

I hope I'm not wrong. Big Grin

Thank you very much! This gives me somewhere to go from here. I appreciate your answer. I think this takes me to doing a little research in brain wave activity to better understand a tweet I had read yesterday from L/L Research. I found the tweet fascinating.
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05-18-2019, 06:54 AM,
#5
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-18-2019, 02:32 AM)anagogy Wrote:  
(05-17-2019, 02:16 PM)kristina Wrote:  What is the most profound differences between meditation, light trance and trance? Is there anything from the Law of One that I can read in regards to the differences in these processes?
Thanks all

Personally, I don't really see a difference. The difference is mainly one of depth, or intensity. Or, that is to say: how deep is the trance?

It is important to note, that scientists still aren't entirely sure what a "trance" is. But I will tell you what I think a trance is based on my personal experience.

A trance is a state of dissociation. By that I mean it is when a portion of your consciousness splits off from the main body of consciousness. It is a normal experience that occurs to free up cognitive resources. It happens whenever consciousness "loops". So whenever you think repetitive thoughts, your mind is traveling around in a loop of consciousness. At some point you becomes "used" to this loop, and you get the feeling that you can think "other thoughts" while another part of your mind is still performing this "loop". One example is: learning to ride a bike. Once you've learned to ride a bike, or drive a car, or jump rope, you can perform that activity while thinking other thoughts. It feels like the automatic part you (the subconscious self) is doing the repetitive task, while the non automatic part you (the conscious self) is thinking different thoughts.

This is a basic state of trance. The loop that generates the state of dissociation (the trance) I would call the Trance Generating Loop (TGL), and the dissociated trance state produced by that I would call the Dissociated Trance Plane (DTP). So with meditation the loop is something usually like: focusing on your breath, or focusing on muscle relaxation, or clearing your mind, or repeating a mantra, or visualizing a color. After enough repetition, you "space out". This is when the dissociation occurs.

The reason why this happens is for energy conservation reasons. It is more efficient to do this. It frees up cognitive energy.

There are various kinds of trances. For example, there are meditation trances, where the TGL is entirely within your mind. There are hypnotic trances where the TGL is outside of your mind. There are also other forms of trance that are more complex, which include multiple interlocking structures of TGL's and DTP's. Basically what determines what type of trance it is is based on where the TGL occurs, and where the DTP occurs. And also how many of each there are. And how many elements to the loops there are.

Whenever you dissociate, you may feel perfectly conscious, but you're actually not, you are in an altered state of consciousness. For example, in hypnosis, the reason you become increasingly "suggestible" is because the loop the hypnotist has you engage in disables critical judgment (that's the whole point). When this occurs, you automatically and uncritically accept the hypnotists suggestions. Whenever a cognitive loop occurs long enough to produce a significant dissociation, some cognitive abilities will becomes disabled, and others will become enabled. There is a change in energy use, mentally. For example, you may have a glazed look on your eyes, and may be staring out into space, you may feel more creative or more relaxed, or have less awareness of your surroundings, but perhaps increased internal awareness. Anesthesia may be present.

Yogis often go into self imposed meditation trances where they try to develop occult powers. This usually takes a long time to develop. First they try to introduce a TGL and corresponding DTP that disables one cognitive function, and then perhaps another one, and then another one. Slowly, over time, other more subtle, yet natural, cognitive functions are amplified with suggestion. Eventually, like letting good wine clarify they gradually crystallize an occult power like clairvoyance or other "sidhis" or powers.

It is a complex but interesting subject.
Cainite gave me a good bit of info on brainwaves and you are following up that answer given with information that I had literally never heard of. This subject is absolutely fascinating to me.
I'm trying to understand like I had said to Cainite, a tweet that I had read and also my meditations where concepts come to me and I hear "audibly" voices that sound as if they are coming in from an AM radio station (that I would love to understand more completely). They kind of blurt into the meditation.
I am in a lot of physical pain, but when I meditate I feel NOTHING. My body doesn't hurt. I think while I am in that place during meditation, "wouldn't life be great if everyone could feel like this?" I literally feel blissful. I do not throw that word around much because even I don't understand it completely and I cannot pretend I've entered blissfulness except during meditations or have been able to hold onto blissfulness.
How can I thank the both of you enough? I am very grateful to read both the answers given.
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05-18-2019, 07:08 AM,
#6
RE: Some detailed information please
Not supposing to know but wouldn’t that blissful state just be when ego steps back enough that you experience your true self aka the divine frequency?

In a way that is also disassociating as you are no longer so “associated “ with the created/ego self so it’s hold on body/mind/awareness is less as a result.

Just thoughts. Maybe none helpful.
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05-18-2019, 07:19 AM,
#7
RE: Some detailed information please
I believe we live in a constant trance (hypnosis) induced by others or by ourselves (self-hypnosis).

Every unquestioned belief that is operating in our nervous system without us being aware of it creates a self-sustaining loop of consciousness (@anagogy mentioned other good examples) excluding parts of REALITY from the conscious perception that don't support that belief.

The Cambridge English Dictionary defines trance as "a temporary mental condition in which someone is not completely conscious of and/or not in control of himself or herself". But is a single human being ever completely conscious or in complete control of themselves?

The meditative state IMHO is a state of consciously expanded consciousness/awareness that includes more of REALITY AKA the parts of consciousness that were operating semi-separately and unconsciously the rest of the time.
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05-18-2019, 07:29 AM,
#8
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-18-2019, 07:08 AM)Glow Wrote:  Not supposing to know but wouldn’t that blissful state just be when ego steps back enough that you experience your true self aka the divine frequency?

In a way that is also disassociating as you are no longer so “associated “ with the created/ego self so it’s hold on body/mind/awareness is less as a result.

Just thoughts. Maybe none helpful.

Quite possibly Glow. Thanks. There are a lot of things to consider that I have not done regarding things like why do I hurt and when I meditate I do not? Then I thought of what I have heard before as the pain body. Wonder of any of you could build on that to further my understanding? Thanks once again Glow for your answer.
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05-18-2019, 09:06 AM,
#9
RE: Some detailed information please
Check out the L/L Library! I know that Carla talks about these things. I can’t think of a specific text Sad She wrote a channeling handbook though which should have thebinformarion you’re looking for.
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05-18-2019, 10:44 AM,
#10
RE: Some detailed information please
I’m not on twitter

Do you mind sharing the tweet?
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05-18-2019, 11:37 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-18-2019, 11:44 AM by Cainite.)
#11
RE: Some detailed information please
You're welcome, kristina!
Sorry to hear about your physical pain.

Sounds like you have a knack for meditation and are responsive to it.
The reason for not feeling the pain or feeling it less in meditation is what anagogy has written about in his post, a kind of ''dissociation'' of the mind from the body and it's sufferings. there have been monks who had set themselves on fire while remaining still and silent.
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05-19-2019, 11:53 AM,
#12
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-18-2019, 10:44 AM)Glow Wrote:  I’m not on twitter

Do you mind sharing the tweet?

yeah sure just give me a second to dig it up, ok?
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05-19-2019, 12:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-19-2019, 12:03 PM by kristina. Edit Reason: I'm dumb and a sleepy head....."light trance is in the beginning of the tweet" )
#13
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-18-2019, 10:44 AM)Glow Wrote:  I’m not on twitter

Do you mind sharing the tweet?


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05-19-2019, 12:13 PM,
#14
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-19-2019, 12:00 PM)kristina Wrote:  
(05-18-2019, 10:44 AM)Glow Wrote:  I’m not on twitter

Do you mind sharing the tweet?

That was both lovely, and incredibly timely. Thank you for sharing Heart
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05-20-2019, 09:28 AM,
#15
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-19-2019, 12:13 PM)Glow Wrote:  
(05-19-2019, 12:00 PM)kristina Wrote:  
(05-18-2019, 10:44 AM)Glow Wrote:  I’m not on twitter

Do you mind sharing the tweet?

That was both lovely, and incredibly timely. Thank you for sharing Heart

Yes, for me as well. I'm glad I could share when you needed it. Heart
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05-20-2019, 09:30 AM,
#16
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-18-2019, 11:37 AM)Cainite Wrote:  You're welcome, kristina!
Sorry to hear about your physical pain.

Sounds like you have a knack for meditation and are responsive to it.
The reason for not feeling the pain or feeling it less in meditation is what anagogy has written about in his post, a kind of ''dissociation'' of the mind from the body and it's sufferings. there have been monks who had set themselves on fire while remaining still and silent.
You're fine Cainite. I am managing through loads and loads of love for self, accepting situations as they are and meditation. I appreciate your empathy. I really do.
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05-23-2019, 01:50 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-23-2019, 01:51 AM by loostudent.)
#17
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-17-2019, 02:16 PM)kristina Wrote:  What is the most profound differences between meditation, light trance and trance? Is there anything from the Law of One that I can read in regards to the differences in these processes?
Thanks all

Normal awake state: conscious, aware.

Trance: suspended awareness so that hypnotherapist can talk directly to our subconscious or body can be avaliable as a medium for other entity (channeling, possesion) or daily relaxation and healing (sleep).

Meditation: the consciouss mind is somewhat suspended but the purpose is different. The mind is stilled so that awareness opens to beyond. Beyond ego and illusion.
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05-23-2019, 01:21 PM,
#18
RE: Some detailed information please
(05-23-2019, 01:50 AM)loostudent Wrote:  
(05-17-2019, 02:16 PM)kristina Wrote:  What is the most profound differences between meditation, light trance and trance? Is there anything from the Law of One that I can read in regards to the differences in these processes?
Thanks all

Normal awake state: conscious, aware.

Trance: suspended awareness so that hypnotherapist can talk directly to our subconscious or body can be avaliable as a medium for other entity (channeling, possesion) or daily relaxation and healing (sleep).

Meditation: the consciouss mind is somewhat suspended but the purpose is different. The mind is stilled so that awareness opens to beyond. Beyond ego and illusion.

The tweet spoke of Meditation, "light trance" and trance. That was the question I had in mind....what is the diff between the 3. Thanks much
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