The Four Elements
06-12-2019, 09:47 AM,
#1
The Four Elements
I want to talk about the four elements of Malkuth, the material plane.

[Image: cropped-Earth-symbol-cropped-1.jpg]

The symbol for earth is a quartered circle, each quarter to represent an element: fire, air, water, and earth. These manifest as physical elements which the material plane is composed of. The elements also indicate four types of activity in the physical plane, known as fire of the wise, air of the wise, water of the wise, and earth of the wise. The types of activity or modes of manifestation are what’s meant when we talk about elements in esoteric philosophy and metaphysical theory.

The material plane is where the forms build up in Yesod, Foundation, are bodies forth. “It will draw to itself the conditions of material expression.”

[Image: 83105777-raster-illustration-four-elemen....jpg?ver=6]

We can classify the four elements under two headings: anabolism and katabolism; building-up (Water/earth) and breaking-down (air/fire).

Elemental Fire - “is that subtle electromagnetic aspect of matter which is the link with the processes of consciousness and life.” Elemental fire is said to be a kind of “over-state” of matter; a state of relationships rather than a thing in itself, Dion Fortune states.

Elemental Air - is the capacity to achieve these relationships; it is the vital principle of physical life; “for it is only in so far as matter has a capacity for organization that organic substance is possible.”

Elemental Water - is plain protoplasm

Elemental Earth - is inorganic matter.

Fire/air are force; and water/earth are form. On the Tree of Life, Yesod precedes MALKUTH and is the watery sphere of the moon. Yesod is the Foundation. Material manifestation happens in Malkuth, the sphere of earth, the four elements.

The four elements also correspond to four types of temperaments in man, as described by Hippocrates, the four Tarot suits, the 12 signs of the Zodiac, and the seven planets.

To Earth corresponds the Phlegmatic Temperament; the suit of Pentacles, the signs of Taurus ♉️, Virgo ♍️, and Capricorn ♑️; and the planets Venus and Luna.

To Water corresponds the Bilious Temperament; the suit of Cups; the signs of Cancer ♋️, Scorpio ♏️, and Pisces ♓️; and the planet Mars.

To Air corresponds the Choleric Temperament; the suit of Swords; the signs of Libra ♎️, Gemini ♊️, and Aquarius ♒️; and the planets Saturn and Mercury.

To Fire corresponds the Sanguine Temperament; the suit of Wanda; the signs of Aries ♈️, Sagittarius ♐️, and Leo ♌️; and the planets Sol and Jupiter.

Quote:When we consider the microcosmic Tree, the physical body is in Malkuth; the etheric double is Yesod; the astromental body is Hod and Netzach; and the higher mind is Tiphareth. Whatever the higher mind can conceive can be readily brought through into manifestation in the subjective Malkuth.
[...]
The best magical weapon is the Magus himself, and all other contrivances are but a means to an end, the end being that exaltation and concentration of consciousness which makes a magus out of an ordinary man. “Know ye not that ye are the temple of the living God?” said a Great One. If we know how to use the symbolic furniture of this living temple, we have the keys to heaven in our hands.”
—Dion Fortune, The Mystical Qabalah

So, let’s talk about the elements. What do you know about the four elements? I’ve by no means covered it all. Id like to get a deeper understanding of these principles.
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06-12-2019, 02:36 PM,
#2
RE: The Four Elements
There are 5 elements. You didn't mention Ether or Spirit. Just as there are 4 psychic functions and one transcendental function. In the temple space of the Elements used for the call. Personally, it is very difficult for me to understand the principles of ritual work, without practical application. I compared the information of Ra with the information of the Golden Dawn, there are many differences. But there are also significant intersections of course. Don was interested in Western Esoteric Tradition as far as I could understand. And the elements are used in the Middle Pillar - symbolizing 5 mental centers and 5 Names of God. Accordingly including Keter, Daat, Tiferet, Yesod, Malkut. Unfortunately, I do not know the topic well enough, just interested and looking for answers.
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06-12-2019, 04:35 PM,
#3
RE: The Four Elements
(06-12-2019, 09:47 AM)Nau7ik Wrote:  So, let’s talk about the elements. What do you know about the four elements? I’ve by no means covered it all. Id like to get a deeper understanding of these principles.

A couple things to consider then:

The 4 classical elements (+ the fifth/quintessential "ether") are Greek/European in origin. This is important to note due to differences between planetary/racial minds (Greeks/Europeans being Atlantean, being Martian). Ask the descendants of Mu/Lemuria (Chinese, Eskimos, Native Americans, etc; being Denebians) and they'll tell you there's 5 elements including wood (2D body/flesh) and metal, but no air. How do you reconcile these discrepancies? Which one is more accurate? Or, could it be (gasp!), that both models are flawed as are so many things "philosophized" by a 3D mind?

You're looking at things from a very qabalistic/Judaic perspective, which some may find unnecessarily abstruse/convoluted. Just because Ra played along with Don too, doesn't mean these "elements" were anything more than poetic/symbolic representations. A workable system for those that may find use in such things (like the tarot or astrology). But ultimately the work of a 3D mind seeing things from its 3D-tainted glasses.

Perhaps, if you wish for a "cleaner" understanding of the elements (1D), it might be advisable to take a look at the the Earth (planet) during the Hadean eon, before 2D begun, and dwell therein. Pure, unadulterd elemental awareness. And bear in mind: 1D spends most of its cycle in a non-physical, timeless state, coming straight outta the Creator itself.  

Might be worthwhile reconsidering this notion that 1D represents some "gross physical plane".
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06-12-2019, 06:56 PM,
#4
RE: The Four Elements
Yes, Salt, I was really interested when studying a bit Chinese medicine as, yes there was no air, but wood and metal.

There is a really very interesting small book about a Chinese system for perfecting health :
The Five-Elements Wellness Plan

It was written by a German lady called Barbara Temelie, pretty fascinating.

For exemple, the element wood governs the liver and the gallbladder, the climatic factor: wind, the color green, and the sour taste are all allocated to it.

I used this book at one time when my daughter had specific issue with intestine, and for several weeks I cooked along this plan. The results were awesome. My daughter felt better after five days, my son had less trouble with reading, we all felt better as if our body had a good tune-up..

I will go back to it once in a while. If anyone here has some health issues, you might want to look into it. It doesn’t require great cooking skills nor exotic ingredients, no calorie counting. It’s really an interesting way to do things.

There are lots of soups and vegetarian dishes and you follow a certain order ( following elements ) in the way you add ingredients to the pot or the pan. If you really get into it, it will stay with you, I still know it and that was in 2002....
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06-12-2019, 07:38 PM,
#5
RE: The Four Elements
(06-12-2019, 06:56 PM)flofrog Wrote:  Yes, Salt, I was really interested when studying a bit Chinese medicine as, yes there was no air, but wood and metal.

Yes, I was wondering where wood and metal fit in.
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06-13-2019, 09:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-13-2019, 09:20 AM by Nau7ik.)
#6
RE: The Four Elements
(06-12-2019, 07:38 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  
(06-12-2019, 06:56 PM)flofrog Wrote:  Yes, Salt, I was really interested when studying a bit Chinese medicine as, yes there was no air, but wood and metal.

Yes, I was wondering where wood and metal fit in.

I think of wood and metal as earth elements. I had always found that strange, wood and metal being Chinese elements.

I did not include Akasha because spirit is not properly an element of MALKUTH. Malkuth is the material plane. Spirit is not material and belongs higher up the Tree (Tiphareth). I included Yeaod because we can’t have a proper understanding of the material plane without understanding that material manifestation is the very last step. The forms are build up in Yesod and bodied forth into physical manifestation in Malkuth. These four elements make up the stuff of physical manifestation and their modes of manifesting. Feel free to share other philosophies and understandings of the elements. This is a qabalistic understanding. It is not complete and all knowing. I never claim that.
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06-15-2019, 03:09 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-15-2019, 03:11 AM by loostudent.)
#7
RE: The Four Elements
Once I meditated on water. What is written in water? What is it teaching me? I took some notes:

One characteristic: it can flow. Life is movement, stream, run. Again and again you have to change. If the water doesn't move for very long it becomes stale and murky. You always have to go forward to stay fresh.

Second: flexibility. Water easily changes shape according to environment. It adapts to container. State of matter also changes with temperature. Water (H2O) is not only water - it's also ice and steam.

Balance. Water flows but somewhere it's also still. Life is not always and only movement. It's also stillness. Sometimes it's time for silence, prayer, meditation, contemplation. And how much life do we spend sleeping? It's not only work. It's also rest. Even the impetuous agitated sea is unrestfull on the surface but in the depths it's still.

Next thing is hygiene and cleanliness. Cleaning, washing, purifying. All is connected with water. In life come also trials. Water is not affraid of dirt. It takes it. Take and carry your cross.

Water is connected with life. It fuels life. It's the majority of our body and our planet's surface. It's the primary drink. And a habitat for water life. It creates numerous snowflakes, every one unique. It's also fun - skiing, throwing snowballs, swimming, sauna, sailing etc.

It also has destructive power. Just think of tsunami and floods. Water often represents emotions. They can help us in relations and beatifuly color our experience, yet they can turn into a destructive chaos and discord.
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06-15-2019, 09:09 AM,
#8
RE: The Four Elements
Amazing loostudent!! This is exactly the kind of information I am looking for. I think that I should meditate on the elements now. I don’t know why I didn’t think of that, lol.

I am planning an exercise which builds up “telesmic images” of the archangels. The first step is to “build up” the rough shape of a body using Elemental energy. So knowing the good and bad qualities of the elements is very helpful. It needs to be consistent with the archangel because these telesmic images are meant to act as a kind of channel. It gives more power to rituals like the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram or the setting of the Wards of Power (basically the same thing as the LBRP). Because the visualizations and invocations are more focused and concrete in our consciousness.

Thank you again!
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06-19-2019, 07:21 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-19-2019, 07:23 AM by loostudent.)
#9
RE: The Four Elements
Thank you Nau7ik! I'm glad it served you. You encouraged me to do some more.

Meditation on air

Human organism can survive without water for a few days. What about air? Just a few minutes! Air is much more primary for life, despite we are usually little aware of this.

In the Book of Genesis it is written about the early state of creation: "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

Invisibility. We don't see air but we feel when it moves. We can see it only indirectly, when it moves other things. It's so subtle. That's why air is often representing the spiritual principle. Also the birds and wings. The word for spirit is breath. It brings to life and enables consciousness and activity. We know that air enables (potentiates?) fire, while the water puts it out.

Air enables flying. Free movement. Air can also be very unpredictable. Just think of weather. I think of freedom and (free) will.

Similarly as water air also needs constant flow to keep the freshness. You have to look for fresh drinking water but air is everywhere. Air as every element can also have a destructive side ...

An important aspect: communication and meaning. Voice, sound, listening, music, words. All this is connected with air waves. It also transmits smell. This enables us to know what smells and what stinks. This reminds me also of the inner voice/compas - consciouss.
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06-19-2019, 10:37 AM,
#10
RE: The Four Elements
What element do radio waves and radiation fall under?

And when you use an electric stove to heat food, is that fire?
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06-20-2019, 08:40 AM,
#11
RE: The Four Elements
(06-19-2019, 10:37 AM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  What element do radio waves and radiation fall under?

And when you use an electric stove to heat food, is that fire?

Elemental Fire is that subtle electromagnetic force, so all of these would fall under fire.
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06-20-2019, 11:19 AM,
#12
RE: The Four Elements
Can ether be detected?
Is that what astral bodies are made out of?
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06-22-2019, 08:47 AM,
#13
RE: The Four Elements
(06-20-2019, 11:19 AM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  Can ether be detected?
Is that what astral bodies are made out of?

The etheric body corresponds to Yesod on the Tree of Life, which is the astral plane. Yesod is the watery moon sphere. The etheric body is the form maker. The form is created in Yesod and bodied forth in Malkuth, the physical plane.

I don’t think ether can be detected by 3D instruments. Time/space is almost completely ignored by human physicists.
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06-23-2019, 10:43 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-27-2019, 11:07 AM by loostudent.)
#14
RE: The Four Elements
Meditation On Earth

The earth bears fruit. It's the most tangible element. It often symbolizes everything bodily, material, physical, limited. It's interesting that in original creation light is the building block while in man's creation earth was the building block - first tools were made of stone ... Also in creation of our body? "We Are Stardust"- sung Joni Mitchell in Woodstock. Elemnts in our body are literary from this dust. So the Bible is rightly saying: "God formed man of the dust of the ground." Ground is permanent but dust is impermanent. Earthly body is mortal and transient. Another song comes to mind - "Dust In the Wind".

Ground. It's not just the source for material, it's also the fundament to build on. Earth animals need solid ground. I'm reminded of Jesus' parable: house on a rock vs. house on sand. We (humans) are rooted in earth (see the meaning of name Adam). Water is something fluent and supple but earth/ground represents something solid and stable. Stability, order, support, haven. This reminds me of home and the role of parents in the life of a child.

Walking. Our most simple kind of travel. We walk on ground. Jezus was supposed to walk on water. That's interesting. Why didn't he simply teleport himself? Actually he walked a lot when he was teaching and when he invited new disciples he said: follow me (in other translation: walk behind me). Walking is learning. We are here on this ground to learn and bear fruit.

Humility is a virtue connected to earth (humus=earth, humilis=on the ground). It's having a grounded (realistic) view of self ...
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06-23-2019, 08:23 PM,
#15
RE: The Four Elements
I was initiated into a 4 element spiritual methodology once, If I recall correctly theirs was water, wind, fire, earth and combining them into ether.
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06-27-2019, 11:05 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-27-2019, 11:14 AM by loostudent.)
#16
RE: The Four Elements
Meditation On Fire

Fire doesn't look like an element at all. It's somewhat different. More like an activity or emanation. Remember what Ra said about Love? "This then may be seen to be an object rather than an activity by some of your peoples, and the principle of this extremely strong energy focus being worshiped as the Creator instead of unity or oneness from which all Loves emanate."

Light and warmth. Fire warms, glows, kindles. We are most aware of this in the winter when it's cold and dark. When we move beyond physical this light and warmth is understanding and love. The light of fire illuminates the darkness of ignorance. For humans vision is the dominant sense - we recieve 90% information about the world around us through eyes. Fire also warms the heart and kindles the flame of love. True love is spiritual - fueled with spirit (air) - it's free - a decision of will, more than just a momentary feeling or drive, more than a calculation ...

Burning also reminds me of something intense, strong, energetic, dynamic. Like passion, desire and anger or a fiery and decisive personality ...

Offering/sacrifice is also connected with fire. People used to burn animal sacrifices to gods. A candle burns itself to give light. For fire (love) something (of earth) needs to burn. Something needs to be sacrified/offered.

A spark (also fire) burns a fire. Besides air and something offered we need a spark or another fire to ignite a fire. One saint said: "If you want to fire up others you yourself have to be on fire."

Change and test. Fire affects the very chemical structure of the burning material. Iron is forged in fire. A test with flame was used to indentify metals.

Danger and protection. Fire was respected from the olden days. It's dangerous and it can protect against wild animals. You can burn yourself. It requires carefulness. "Don't play with fire." This reminds me also of the kundalini that I experienced as an inner fire.
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06-28-2019, 05:46 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-28-2019, 05:46 AM by loostudent.)
#17
RE: The Four Elements
To summarize my perceptions of aspects:

Earth: ground, material, limitation, stabilty, fertility.
Water: purification, flexibility, birth, deep mind.
Air: freedom, spirit, will, communication.
Fire: love, understanding, desire, energy, offering.

Correspondence with the four temperaments as I see it:

Earth: Phlegmatic.
Water: Melancholic.
Air: Sanguine.
Fire: Choleric.
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06-28-2019, 06:06 AM,
#18
RE: The Four Elements
Now let's look at some relations and correspondences.

The flow of life: it comes from water and goes to earth.

Water fuels earth. Air fuels fire.
Water balances fire. Air (sky) balances earth. (And vice versa.)

Water lifts up in air and falls down on ground. Movement up can be ascesis, effort, earnings. Movement down: blessing, grace, undeserved gift. The Heavenly Father "sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

I'm not sure about male/female principle correspondence. Mabye fire - male and water - female.
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06-28-2019, 08:22 AM,
#19
RE: The Four Elements
(06-28-2019, 06:06 AM)loostudent Wrote:  Now let's look at some relations and correspondences.

The flow of life: it comes from water and goes to earth.

Water fuels earth. Air fuels fire.
Water balances fire. Air (sky) balances earth. (And vice versa.)

Water lifts up in air and falls down on ground. Movement up can be ascesis, effort, earnings. Movement down: blessing, grace, undeserved gift. The Heavenly Father "sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

I'm not sure about male/female principle correspondence. Mabye fire - male and water - female.

With the elemental symbols, one can think of air as negative fire, and fire as positive air. Water is negative earth and earth is positive water. This is congruent with your statement that air fuels fire and water fuels earth. Also the flow of life! It starts in water and goes to earth. Metaphysically this is also true. Water represents the foundation of the form, and earth represents the physical manifestation of the form.

For the male/female polarity of the elements, I agree with you. Fire/air are masculine (force; active), and water/earth are feminine (form; passive).

In Qabalah, Tetragrammaton is an Elemental Name:
Yod י - Fire, the Father
Heh ה - Water, the Mother
Vav ו - Air, the Son
final Heh ה - Earth, the Daughter
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06-28-2019, 08:23 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-28-2019, 08:25 AM by flofrog.)
#20
RE: The Four Elements
Interesting loo and Nau !!!

Here are characteristics for yin and yang, and as you shall see, your male and female elements were totally on..
Yang
masculine
white
light
south
fire (creativity)
active
sun (strength and the god Xihe)
heaven
warm
young
odd numbers
mountains
rich
hard
and provides form to all things

and
Yin
feminine
black
dark
north
water (transformation)
passive
moon (weakness and the goddess Changxi)
earth
cold
old
even numbers
valleys
poor
soft
and provides spirit to all things.
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06-29-2019, 07:45 AM,
#21
RE: The Four Elements
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/ebooks/hermetic/Franz_Bardon_-_Initiation_Into_Hermetics.pdf

excerpt from the book.....

2. The Principle of Fire ~
As it has been said before, akasa or the etheric principle is the cause of the origin of the
elements. According to the oriental scriptures, the first element born from akasa is believed
to be Tejas, the principle of fire. This element as well as all the others manifest their
influence not only in our roughly material plane but also in everything created. The basic
qualities of the fiery principle are heat and expansion. In the beginning of all things created
therefore must have been fire and light, and in the Bible we read: “Fiat Lux” – There shall be
light. The origin of the light, of course, is to be sought in the fire. Each element and therefore
that of fire, too, has two polarities, i.e., the active and the passive one, which means positive
(+) and negative (-). Plus will always signify the constructive, the creative, the productive
sources whereas minus stands for all that is destructive or dissecting. There are always two
basic qualities, which must be clearly distinguished in each element. Religions have always
imputed the good to the active and the evil to the passive side. But fundamentally spoken,
there are no such things as good or bad; they are nothing but human conceptions. In the
Universe there is neither good nor evil, because everything has been created according to
immutable rules, wherein the Divine Principle is reflected and only by knowing these rules,
shall we be able to come near to the Divinity.
there is nothing,that isn't a part of Me,One Infinite Reality.
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06-29-2019, 09:04 AM,
#22
RE: The Four Elements
(06-29-2019, 07:45 AM)zvonimir Wrote:  http://www.themasonictrowel.com/ebooks/hermetic/Franz_Bardon_-_Initiation_Into_Hermetics.pdf

excerpt from the book.....

2. The Principle of Fire ~
As it has been said before, akasa or the etheric principle is the cause of the origin of the
elements. According to the oriental scriptures, the first element born from akasa is believed
to be Tejas, the principle of fire. This element as well as all the others manifest their
influence not only in our roughly material plane but also in everything created. The basic
qualities of the fiery principle are heat and expansion. In the beginning of all things created
therefore must have been fire and light, and in the Bible we read: “Fiat Lux” – There shall be
light. The origin of the light, of course, is to be sought in the fire. Each element and therefore
that of fire, too, has two polarities, i.e., the active and the passive one, which means positive
(+) and negative (-). Plus will always signify the constructive, the creative, the productive
sources whereas minus stands for all that is destructive or dissecting. There are always two
basic qualities, which must be clearly distinguished in each element. Religions have always
imputed the good to the active and the evil to the passive side. But fundamentally spoken,
there are no such things as good or bad; they are nothing but human conceptions. In the
Universe there is neither good nor evil, because everything has been created according to
immutable rules, wherein the Divine Principle is reflected and only by knowing these rules,
shall we be able to come near to the Divinity.

I completely forgot that I had Initiation Into Hermetics! He’s goes in-depth at looking at the elements in the book. Thank you so much for sharing this!
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07-03-2019, 06:44 PM,
#23
RE: The Four Elements
"Fire is the element of power. The people of the Fire Nation have desire and will and the energy and drive to achieve what they want. Earth is the element of substance. The people of the Earth Kingdom are diverse and strong. They are persistent and enduring. Air is the element of freedom. The Air Nomads detached themselves from worldly concerns and found peace and freedom ... Water is the element of change. The people of the Water Tribe are capable of adapting to many things. They have a deep sense of community and love that holds them together through anything."

an interesting excerpt from the the tv show avatar the last airbender.
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07-04-2019, 08:26 AM,
#24
RE: The Four Elements
(07-03-2019, 06:44 PM)schubert Wrote:  "Fire is the element of power. The people of the Fire Nation have desire and will and the energy and drive to achieve what they want. Earth is the element of substance. The people of the Earth Kingdom are diverse and strong. They are persistent and enduring. Air is the element of freedom. The Air Nomads detached themselves from worldly concerns and found peace and freedom ... Water is the element of change. The people of the Water Tribe are capable of adapting to many things. They have a deep sense of community and love that holds them together through anything."

an interesting excerpt from the the tv show avatar the last airbender.

That’s a great show! They also teach about the chakras in one of the episodes Smile I like that. It’s a children’s show that is teaching metaphysical and spiritual principles in a way that children (and others, of course) can understand. It’s one of the good ones in my opinion, showing the potential that television can have.
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07-24-2019, 04:18 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2019, 04:35 AM by loostudent.)
#25
RE: The Four Elements
I've been doing some research on elements.

Indian system

Five subtle elements (pancha tanmatras) are related to five senses: Sound (Shabda), Touch (Sparsha), Vision (Roopa), taste (Rasa), Smell (Gnadha).

Five great elements (pancha mahabhutas): the same as classic four elements with the addition of ether (akash).

Akash (Ether)

Quote:When we say Ether, words like space or a vast openness comes to one's mind. Akash means having a cavity with freedom to move. The tanmatra of ether element  is Shabda (Sound).
Whenever there is compactness of molecules, we get a dull sound on tapping but when there is a cavity or hollow space, we get a resonant sound.
The qualities of ether element are clear, light, subtle, and immeasurable. Ether element is related with various actions like expansion, vibration, non-resistance. Sensory organ related to ether element is ear as it is hollow and transmits the sound waves.

Vayu (Air)

Quote:Air is the great element that shows a sense of movement. Vayu or air initiates & directs motion or movement. Air element keeps the body in constant motion.
The tanmatra of Air element is Sparsha (Touch). The sensory organ related to Air element is skin. Skin is very sensitive for detecting any movement, change in pressure or vibration in subtle form. Any movement against skin can be easily registered.
Air element is mobile, dry, light, cold and subtle in nature. Its main action is to do any kind of movement.

Tej (Fire)

Quote:The previous element, Air performs different movements; whenever there is movement, it produces friction and leads to formation of heat or fire. This element is also called as teja or agni. All various forms of transformation including digestion of food are carried out by fire element.  
The tanmatra of fire element is Rupa (Vision). Perception of light is carries out by this tanmatra. Fire element is hot, sharp, light, dry and subtle.  
Various functions carried out by this element are penetration, digestion of food, and transformation of thoughts, intelligence and perception of light.

Jala (Water)

Quote:The fourth element is water. It is also called as jala or Apa. Whenever we think of water qualities like liquidity or fluidity comes to our mind. Water shows important quality of binding - e.g. if we see dry soil, we cannot make a ball out of it.  But if we add water to the soil, then we can easily make mud balls. This binding nature helps in forming different structures in the body as it binds the 2 cells together. Hence this element is a constructive force.
The tanmatra of water element is rasa (taste). The sense of taste or the ability to taste depends on the liquidity that exists within in the mouth in the form of saliva. Dry mouth along with dry tongue is unable to give sense of taste. The water element exhibits qualities like cool, liquid, dull soft, and sliminess. Its main actions are cohesiveness and adhesiveness.

Prithvi (Earth):

Quote:This is the last element. It is solid, dense, gross and very hard. It is related to all solid and hard structures that show shape - e.g. bones, muscles, teeth and nails. The Earth element is responsible for giving structure, shape and strength to the body.  

The tanmatra for Earth element is Gandha (Smell). The small particles of earth are scattered all over the palce gives us the sense of smell. The sensory organ related is nose. Nose is more hard compared to other sensory organs. Qualities of earth element are heavy, dull, dense hard and gross.  

Source:
http://www.ayurvedaamritvani.com/pancha-mahabhutas---five-great-elements.html

*Note: Some other sources connect air with smell and earth with touch.
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07-24-2019, 07:45 AM,
#26
RE: The Four Elements
I think ether/akasha is part of physical plane. Because without ether there is no life. The etheric fields are which sustain the life. In Theosophy, our plane is called physical-etheric. It's just a more subtle portion of physical dimension.
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07-25-2019, 07:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-25-2019, 10:19 PM by Aion.)
#27
RE: The Four Elements
Hum, there are lots of interesting thoughts in here. Definitely making a lot of headway with understanding the elements.

I am not going to add too much, but I would like to point out that in the Kabbalistic tradition if you are going based on the Sepher Yetzirah then the process of the creation of the elements starts with Spirit. From Spirit is formed the Air. From the Air was formed Water, and then from the Water was formed Fire.

This is probably opposite to a lot of people who usually associated Fire with being close to Spirit, but as the animating principle it actually makes sense to come last. That which invigorates and spurs to action all the 'designs' in the Mind of God.
Every path in life circles to the center.
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loostudent, Nau7ik, sunnysideup
07-26-2019, 09:46 AM,
#28
RE: The Four Elements
(07-25-2019, 07:00 PM)Aion Wrote:  Hum, there are lots of interesting thoughts in here. Definitely making a lot of headway with understanding the elements.

I am not going to add too much, but I would like to point out that in the Kabbalistic tradition if you are going based on the Sepher Yetzirah then the process of the creation of the elements starts with Spirit. From Spirit is formed the Air. From the Air was formed Water, and then from the Water was formed Fire.

This is probably opposite to a lot of people who usually associated Fire with being close to Spirit, but as the animating principle it actually makes sense to come last. That which invigorates and spurs to action all the 'designs' in the Mind of God.

Thank you Aion, very interesting! The Sefer Yetzirah explains the philosophy behind the elements nicely.

[[However, I want to point out, because there has been confusion, that what I was trying to do was to look at the four elements of the material sphere, MALKUTH. That’s not really working out so let us talk about all 5 of the elements.]]

The Three Mother letters in Hebrew are Aleph, Mem, and Shin; א מ ש. (Read from right to left in Hebrew.)
Aleph is attributed air, Mem is attributed water, and Shin is attributed fire.

Quote:1st. The spirit of the living Elohim, blessed and more than blessed be the living Elohim of ages. His Voice, His Spirit, and His Word are the Holy Spirit.

2nd. He produced air from the spirit and in the air He formed and established twenty-two sounds—the letters. Three of them were fundamental, or mothers; seven were double; and twelve were simple (single); but the spirit is the first one and above all.

3rd. Primordial water He extracted from the air. He formed therein twenty-two letters and established them out of mud and loam, making them like a border, putting them up like a wall, and surrounding them as with a rampart. He poured snow upon them and it became earth, as it reads: “He said to the snow be thou earth.” (Job. xxxvii. 6.)

4th. Fire (ether) He drew forth from the water. He engraved and established by it the Throne of Glory. He fashioned the Seraphim, the Ophanim, and the Holy Living Creatures, as His ministering angels; and with (of) these three he formed His habitation, as it reads: “Who made His Angels spirits, His ministers a flaming fire.” (Psalms civ. 4.)

[...]

These are the ten ineffable existences out of nothing: From the spirit of the Living God emanated air; from the air, water; from the water, fire (ether); from the fire, the height and the depth, the East and the West, the North and the South.

The Sepher Yetzirah, the Book of Formation
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kristina
07-30-2019, 06:21 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-30-2019, 10:08 AM by loostudent.)
#29
RE: The Four Elements
(07-25-2019, 07:00 PM)Aion Wrote:  Hum, there are lots of interesting thoughts in here. Definitely making a lot of headway with understanding the elements.

I am not going to add too much, but I would like to point out that in the Kabbalistic tradition if you are going based on the Sepher Yetzirah then the process of the creation of the elements starts with Spirit. From Spirit is formed the Air. From the Air was formed Water, and then from the Water was formed Fire.

This is probably opposite to a lot of people who usually associated Fire with being close to Spirit, but as the animating principle it actually makes sense to come last. That which invigorates and spurs to action all the 'designs' in the Mind of God.

Words can get a little ambiguous. The first (creative) principle can also be a spark or sun (fire). The animating principle is traditionally associated with breathing (air). This is where the word spirit comes from. Spirit is from the beginning and most subtle but it can dwell and move in the four elements. So the spirit is first indeed but the awakening of spirit is last.

Quote:30.5 Questioner: I would like to know how the mind/body/spirit complexes originate. How, going back as far as necessary, does the— Do they originate by spirit forming mind and mind forming body? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider that you are attempting to trace evolution. This evolution is as we have previously described, the consciousness being first, in first density, without movement, a random thing. Whether you may call this mind or body complex is a semantic problem. We call it mind/body complex recognizing always that in the simplest iota of this complex exists in its entirety the One Infinite Creator; this mind/body complex then in second density discovering the growing and turning towards the light, thus awakening what you may call the spirit complex, that which intensifies the upward spiraling towards the love and light of the Infinite Creator.

The addition of this spirit complex, though apparent rather than real, it having existed potentially from the beginning of space/time, perfects itself by graduation into third density. When the mind/body/spirit complex becomes aware of the possibility of service to self or other-self, then the mind/body/spirit complex is activated.

Quote:The third area is the spiritual complex which embodies the fields of force and consciousness which are the least distorted of your mind/body/spirit complex /... /

That is the work of wind and fire. The spiritual body energy field is a pathway, or channel. When body and mind are receptive and open, then the spirit can become a functioning shuttle or communicator from the entity’s individual energy of will upwards, and from the streamings of the creative fire and wind downwards. (6.1)
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08-07-2019, 05:15 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-07-2019, 05:17 AM by Aion.)
#30
RE: The Four Elements
(07-30-2019, 06:21 AM)loostudent Wrote:  
(07-25-2019, 07:00 PM)Aion Wrote:  Hum, there are lots of interesting thoughts in here. Definitely making a lot of headway with understanding the elements.

I am not going to add too much, but I would like to point out that in the Kabbalistic tradition if you are going based on the Sepher Yetzirah then the process of the creation of the elements starts with Spirit. From Spirit is formed the Air. From the Air was formed Water, and then from the Water was formed Fire.

This is probably opposite to a lot of people who usually associated Fire with being close to Spirit, but as the animating principle it actually makes sense to come last. That which invigorates and spurs to action all the 'designs' in the Mind of God.

Words can get a little ambiguous. The first (creative) principle can also be a spark or sun (fire). The animating principle is traditionally associated with breathing (air). This is where the word spirit comes from. Spirit is from the beginning and most subtle but it can dwell and move in the four elements. So the spirit is first indeed but the awakening of spirit is last.


Quote:30.5 Questioner: I would like to know how the mind/body/spirit complexes originate. How, going back as far as necessary, does the— Do they originate by spirit forming mind and mind forming body? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider that you are attempting to trace evolution. This evolution is as we have previously described, the consciousness being first, in first density, without movement, a random thing. Whether you may call this mind or body complex is a semantic problem. We call it mind/body complex recognizing always that in the simplest iota of this complex exists in its entirety the One Infinite Creator; this mind/body complex then in second density discovering the growing and turning towards the light, thus awakening what you may call the spirit complex, that which intensifies the upward spiraling towards the love and light of the Infinite Creator.

The addition of this spirit complex, though apparent rather than real, it having existed potentially from the beginning of space/time, perfects itself by graduation into third density. When the mind/body/spirit complex becomes aware of the possibility of service to self or other-self, then the mind/body/spirit complex is activated.

Quote:The third area is the spiritual complex which embodies the fields of force and consciousness which are the least distorted of your mind/body/spirit complex /... /

That is the work of wind and fire. The spiritual body energy field is a pathway, or channel. When body and mind are receptive and open, then the spirit can become a functioning shuttle or communicator from the entity’s individual energy of will upwards, and from the streamings of the creative fire and wind downwards. (6.1)

Well I don't follow Ra so much anymore so on that note I'd just say that symbolic systems are always somewhat personal and there is no one right way to analogize creation and its aspects. I can see the reasoning behind multiple ways of conceiving things.
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