No entity without help 50:5

[kristina]

ok...nevermind

[Nau7ik]

Not necessarily that they are mentally handicapped. It also means those who are less spiritually developed. As we become more “awake” to the process of spiritual evolution, we take part in planning our incarnations with higher self. There is a natural protection for those who are not as developed yet.

I believe that the Matrix of Body, IX. Justice shows us this.


Behind the seated female figure stands an angel with wings outstretched. I believe this to be the higher self. It is our natural protection and guidance for the incarnation.

[Ray711]

I'm not sure how much this applies to mentally handicapped people, but I believe that intelligence plays little in the ways of the spirit. In fact, it is some of the most intelligent people who use such intelligence to separate themselves from other-selves in a feeling of superiority. And also the ones who try their hardest to understand the world with the mind, which as we know is futile. In their arrogance, many end up believing that they have understood the basic facets of reality, and although a jump towards full blown STS is by no means guaranteed at this point, even the individuals with a strong sense of morality will find it very difficult to make an STO graduation when the basic belief of a purely rational and atheistic mindset imposes the perspective that many things happening in the world are indeed unacceptable.

Someone who is not prone to engaging in the rational aspect of life will have the advantage of not falling into this pitfall. When there's a lack of intelligence, someone can perhaps engage more readily and easily in simply being, in pure consciousness (which as we know is perfect and immaculate in every single entity, no matter how impaired in their body or mind), unconcerned with intellectually understanding the mechanisms and ways of functioning of reality. And in this manner of being, perhaps it is much easier to lean towards kindness.

Speaking as someone who has spent most of his life as a hardcore atheist before discovering spirituality, that's a way of being that in my experience sucked my soul dry. I believe Ra themselves said that although the rational mind can be used positively, it by itself is of a more inherently negative quality. They also said that someone who is intellectually-driven can have more ways in which to process catalyst in a positive manner, but in my estimation it comes with a great degree of potential difficulties, and indeed with the ever-present danger of at least a partial STS polarization.

[Diana]

I have worked with the mentally handicapped in an institution with thousands of residents, so I have broad-stroke observations. I agree with Ray 777 and Nau7ik. I do not think Ra was talking about those with diminished mental capacity. It has been my experience that they who are considered mentally diminished are more likely to be loving and child-like, and more connected without analyzing it. The facility had 3 categories of mental capacity: borderline, moderately, and profoundly retarded (I don't know what they call it now; "retarded" is politically incorrect I think). Some of those who were profoundly mentally handicapped were like animals—not keeping clothes on, eating with hands, etc.—and within that category some were violent, like a caged animal would be. Without oversimplifying, on the whole, the residents there were accepting and loving. The only protection they needed there was from some of the workers who cared for them—there were employees that found easy ground for having power over others (the residents).

It is my theory, and has been for a long time (I worked there in my early twenties), that somehow beings who come into this life with this sort of handicap have done so to be of service to others. The love they emanate without judgment, the vulnerability, is a lesson for the rest of us. I think they are teachers. I do think they are guarded here, but not because they might not understand the connection to all, or Creator, but because their mission here is so heroic.

Speaking as someone who has spent most of his life as a hardcore atheist before discovering spirituality, that's a way of being that in my experience sucked my soul dry. I believe Ra themselves said that although the rational mind can be used positively, it by itself is of a more inherently negative quality. They also said that someone who is intellectually-driven can have more ways in which to process catalyst in a positive manner, but in my estimation it comes with a great degree of potential difficulties, and indeed with the ever-present danger of at least a partial STS polarization.

First, may I say that STS is a legitimate path. I look at it differently than most here. The path is very "demonized" but I don't think that is a balanced way of seeing it. I think the idea of the STS individual being a horrible monster is too narrow-banded. I have known very successful businessmen who would fit the STS path, but it's not so simple to say they used and abused people for their own purposes. The thing they DO do, is separate—and in doing so they catapult to positions of power with intense focus on the goal. They aren't so much as unkind as they are driven and detached, with self-assuredness. I'm not saying there aren't STS individuals who commit heinous acts or hurt a lot of other people. But I do think it cuts both ways—those who are under the power of STS leaders and individuals are learning lessons too, and there is responsibility in being used even if it is recognizing they are not defined by their circumstances. This world and existence are too complex to paint in terms of black and white.

I don't think there is any particular "danger" of STS polarization. High intelligence can be used for good, and is. And there are many people of average intelligence who are petty and self-interested—but perhaps they don't have the means to affect more people because they aren't smart enough to figure out how so they go about their lives irritating others to death (). Being intelligent does possibly mean more analyzing etc., but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's like exercising a muscle (the brain). The issue is opening the heart. And lessons will present themselves as opportunities. It is a case of imbalance, and sooner or later something will touch the heart of an intellectual and bust open the walls of protection.

Balancing appears to be a never-ending process, as the capacity to embody more of creation shifts what is already embodied and settles, and capacity expands, and more is apprehended, and so on. High intelligence and using the potential of the human brain is not something that should be halted or eschewed. It is analogous or perhaps another layer of the problem when we look at the world today—we have technology without the consciousness to handle it. We shouldn't halt the development of technology and go back living off the land, but in balance we may find we can have both amazing technology and connection to nature in the most harmonious way, when the hearts of humans are open enough to respect all life—not just themselves and their species.

[Ray711]

First, may I say that STS is a legitimate path.

Oh, I agree with this basic notion, although I'm not sure I share your other thoughts on the subject, Diana. Going by TLOO, Gengis Khan was responsible for millions and millions of deaths. We've read of nazis being literally sexually aroused by the feeling of power coming from putting other-selves to death. And higher density negative entities literally feed on the fear we produce. I think that from a human perspective, harvestable STS entities are indeed what most would call "monsters". The caveats here would be two: 1) The human perspective is very limited, and indeed, what to most of humanity is monstrous, is quite valid from a metaphysical viewpoint. And 2) we all have that "monster" inside of us, or at least the potential for it. So, it is something to be accepted and loved, just as any other side or potentiality of ours.

The ambition of businessmen and such that you mention perhaps doesn't by itself polarize one way or the other. The question would be, what purpose does power/position/status have for that entity? Why does it wish for such things? Perhaps it's to serve others. For other entities that perhaps do it just for their own ego, but like you said, without controlling or using others, my interpretation is that they fall into the sinkhole of indifference. Perhaps their incarnation is simply one in which they experience what it is like to have power, without strongly polarizing one way or the other, simply so that eventually they realize that all that power and fame doesn't satisfy them in life, thus driving them closer towards the making of The Choice. Just my personal interpretation.

I don't think there is any particular "danger" of STS polarization. High intelligence can be used for good, and is.

I agree with the latter, although I feel that it is a necessity for the intellect to be humble enough to know its limitations. In theory it should be possible to polarize STO without faith, but in practicality I feel it would be pretty much an impossible task.

I do agree about there being responsibility even when being used, and I also agree with most of the rest of what you wrote. I like what you said about vulnerability in the patients you worked with, and how it's a lesson for others. For a long time I've seen vulnerability as something quite potentially positive; and particularly the conscious act of putting oneself willingly in a position of vulnerability as something both courageous and necessary for connecting with others. I don't feel society sees the value of vulnerability that I think it has.

Going back to earlier, I'll quote Ra on the subject of the brain:

The lobes of your physical complex brain are alike in their use of weak electrical energy. The entity ruled by intuition and impulse is equal to the entity governed by rational analysis when polarity is considered. The lobes may both be used for service to self or service to others. It may seem that the rational or analytical mind might have more of a possibility of successfully pursuing the negative orientation due to the fact that, in our understanding, too much order is by its essence negative. However, this same ability to structure abstract concepts and to analyze experiential data may be the key to rapid positive polarization. It may be said that those whose analytical capacities are predominant have somewhat more to work with in polarizing.

The function of intuition is to inform intelligence. In your illusion the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception. As you may see, these two types of brain structure need to be balanced in order that the net sum of experiential catalyst will be polarization and illumination, for without the acceptance by the rational mind of the worth of the intuitive faculty the creative aspects which aid in illumination will be stifled.

[kristina]

I agree with you Diana and Nau7ik. I'm glad the Tarot card, Justice was presented as I can clearly see now that my angle was a bit incomplete in my thinking. This rounded it out and I appreciate that.
I want to go back to the mentally handicapped as I know that some are not docile and can be very violent. Nonetheless, there is protection. As far as the most kind and loving of any of us, love is the greatest protection.
I also think we could include those who have been injured to such a great extent that can no longer play the game of life.
Like those of which Diane speak of who have been butalized. They may not be able to play as we play so to speak. I hope I said that correctly. Now, while they may not play like us, these people are giving to others in some way, well, a great way in my opinion. I can can think of multiple ways they are serving.

I want to reiterate about the STS path as this path serves the Creator in it's own way and it's an important focus to keep that all is coalesced in the 6th density. There is no right or wrong here only a choice.
Again, thank you.

[Diana]

Going by TLOO, Gengis Khan was responsible for millions and millions of deaths. We've read of nazis being literally sexually aroused by the feeling of power coming from putting other-selves to death. And higher density negative entities literally feed on the fear we produce. I think that from a human perspective, harvestable STS entities are indeed what most would call "monsters". The caveats here would be two: 1) The human perspective is very limited, and indeed, what to most of humanity is monstrous, is quite valid from a metaphysical viewpoint. And 2) we all have that "monster" inside of us, or at least the potential for it. So, it is something to be accepted and loved, just as any other side or potentiality of ours.

Certainly there are horrible individuals who choose the STS path.

Your #2 caveat is an important point. And regarding #1 caveat, I am not convinced of the metaphysical perspective that most here agree with. Perhaps it is all valid, but to me that is not known. And from my perspective, I can accept that two beings of the same understanding—humans with choice, for example—could "dance" together in teaching/learning; but I can't align with humans' cruelty to other life forms not of the same understanding. So given that, the idea doesn't hold (for me). All I really know is what I experience here. In any moment one must make choices and be accountable for them, as opposed to self-indulging and being "all there is" to experience I can imagine that possible worldview, but I take issue with it. After all, what is empathy then? Must we murder someone to understand what it is to take a life?

The ambition of businessmen and such that you mention perhaps doesn't by itself polarize one way or the other. The question would be, what purpose does power/position/status have for that entity? Why does it wish for such things? Perhaps it's to serve others. For other entities that perhaps do it just for their own ego, but like you said, without controlling or using others, my interpretation is that they fall into the sinkhole of indifference. Perhaps their incarnation is simply one in which they experience what it is like to have power, without strongly polarizing one way or the other, simply so that eventually they realize that all that power and fame doesn't satisfy them in life, thus driving them closer towards the making of The Choice. Just my personal interpretation.

STS is love of, and service to, self. How that service manifests may be incidental to the others it affects from the STS individual's point of view. You ask what purpose the power/position/status have for that STS entity—I think it is evolution of self, as we all strive for in one way or another. It is reaching the potential of self in this life. And in the STS case, this is focused on self alone out of love for self (which is what serves the Creator according to the LOO). In the case of STO, which must include self or there is a separation, it takes less polarization because it is less focused on one thing (self). That is just a working theory—I have no rigid ideas.

Controlling and using others, as I said above, could be seen to be incidental in some cases where the focus derives simply from love of self and drive to reach potential and evolve, detached from regard to others. People are easily lead, and just follow for the most part. This makes it relatively easy for someone whose focus is pointed to self to magnetize to him/her the needed energy to accomplish goals.

On the other hand, some STS individuals focus feeding self by creating fear and abuse, as exemplified by certain Nazi criminals. Genghis Khan—I don't know. How can we know that he got off on killing? Maybe his only objective was to glorify himself as a great warrior/leader, and unite a large swath of Asia and Eastern Europe under the Mongol Empire. If you reference ancient Asian culture, as canvassed in "The Art of War" and "Thick Face, Black Heart," the philosophy is decidedly non-western in its perspective on "the one vs. the many."

I think that in this life it is pretty easy to follow the STS path given the ambivalence and lack of direction most humans display. However, when we are in higher densities where all beings are more refined and aware, it would be more difficult to herd the masses, so perhaps that is why more heinous methods are developed.

In theory it should be possible to polarize STO without faith, but in practicality I feel it would be pretty much an impossible task.

Not sure what you mean by faith. Could you elaborate?

[Silk]

Ra also said in 20.26, that sometimes there is no need for any Confederation aid during a master cycle of 75.000 years

Step out of Earth for a moment and see the Big Picture: there are millions of planets across Creation undergoing evolution starting with 1D. Most of these planets' evolution through 3D to 4D is more or less relatively harmonious and without any great complications: A 2D candidate graduates to 3D and then proceeds to 4D relatively unimpeded with little to no external (hi-D) aid needed. This is the norm. And that's your typical 3D scenario, veiled and all.

Earth, on the other hand, is the exception to the rule. This is for a couple reasons:

• 2D-to-3D evolution was "interrupted" as several other 3D races were "genetically transplanted" here (notably Martians and Denebians, and a few other minor/secondary ones "inserted" at various points thru human history—it's not like everyone was "dumped together" all at once).
  

• Almost all of these "transplants" were 3D grade repeaters (they "failed" to graduate 3D at least once, so when their former planet shifted to 4D—if they didn't render it inhospitable first—they were relocated here). In other words, they are the "problem child" in school. And this, in a sense, is a type of retardation (don't misread, please: to "retard" means "slow down" or "delay" in terms of progress/development).
  

• Add to that: this mish-mash of radically different races with radically different planetary minds/backgrounds inevitably leads to some degree of cultural/religious clash (often resulting in war and bloodshed), which in turn contributes to an exacerbated sense of separation and therefore difficulty/inability to collectively come together as one people.
  

And there you have a recipe for great tribulation. All of this is generally overlooked, but it's extremely important to understand, because you aren't dealing with one single 3D civilization here, but multiple mismatching 3D races on one 3D planet.

How is that we could become separated from unity (50:5)?

There is no "we" in Unity/Infinity. "We" is the illusion of One being many. "We" is the separation. And "we" is the means whereby One realizes itself.

1.7 That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning.

[Infinite Unity]

truth and intelligence are intertwined. All entities are intelligent, they are aspects of the one identity, one of the numerous hallmarks of this identity is intelligence. Everything before you is an prospect and outcome of intelligence.


Light the body or form of intelligence. Intelligence:intelligizes anything it is focused upon, be it figments of illusion or pillars of truth. Much of what makes up people's personalities are but learned ques to interact, socialize, fit into the fabric, or garnish from otherselves.

Truth is unmoving in that intelligence at this level need not learn, do, be to understand. There is but One.

spirit is the truest form/state of all that is, the real bones and blood of The One, something that is not learned, can't be taught; just is.

[kristina]

Ra also said in 20.26, that sometimes there is no need for any Confederation aid during a master cycle of 75.000 years

Step out of Earth for a moment and see the Big Picture: there are millions of planets across Creation undergoing evolution starting with 1D. Most of these planets' evolution through 3D to 4D is more or less relatively harmonious and without any great complications: A 2D candidate graduates to 3D and then proceeds to 4D relatively unimpeded with little to no external (hi-D) aid needed. This is the norm. And that's your typical 3D scenario, veiled and all.

Earth, on the other hand, is the exception to the rule. This is for a couple reasons:

• 2D-to-3D evolution was "interrupted" as several other 3D races were "genetically transplanted" here (notably Martians and Denebians, and a few other minor/secondary ones "inserted" at various points thru human history—it's not like everyone was "dumped together" all at once).
  

• Almost all of these "transplants" were 3D grade repeaters (they "failed" to graduate 3D at least once, so when their former planet shifted to 4D—if they didn't render it inhospitable first—they were relocated here). In other words, they are the "problem child" in school. And this, in a sense, is a type of retardation (don't misread, please: to "retard" means "slow down" or "delay" in terms of progress/development).
  

• Add to that: this mish-mash of radically different races with radically different planetary minds/backgrounds inevitably leads to some degree of cultural/religious clash (often resulting in war and bloodshed), which in turn contributes to an exacerbated sense of separation and therefore difficulty/inability to collectively come together as one people.
  

And there you have a recipe for great tribulation. All of this is generally overlooked, but it's extremely important to understand, because you aren't dealing with one single 3D civilization here, but multiple mismatching 3D races on one 3D planet.

How is that we could become separated from unity (50:5)?

There is no "we" in Unity/Infinity. "We" is the illusion of One being many. "We" is the separation. And "we" is the means whereby One realizes itself.

1.7 That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning.

Are we not within the illusion? Yes, you are me and I am you...
Are you/I not individuated at this point? 3rd density? Space/time?
This first part of the OP was Jim McCarty speaking regarding the Confedration, not myself. This quote was taken from the Camelot Journals. My questions regarding the post in the Camelot Journals are at the bottom of the quote.
What I am asking is underlined and in bold print.
Thank you for your reply.

[Ray711]

"And regarding #1 caveat, I am not convinced of the metaphysical perspective that most here agree with. Perhaps it is all valid, but to me that is not known.

I share your doubts. I believe that it is important (as Ra said) to realize that we do not understand the nature of reality or the why of things, but I definitely agree that some pills are hard to swallow. Lately the notion of child soldiers has been popping up in my mind quite a bit, and I have trouble reconciling that reality with these concepts of acceptance, catalyst, polarization, etc. Then I think that souls who undergo extreme trauma and pain like that were perhaps leaning towards STS in their soul stream, and perhaps in having such an experience they can either decide to fully embrace STS, or start aspiring to STO. But of course, the notion that people who suffer through such tragedies somehow "brought it upon themselves" sounds so terrible. Personally, as uncomfortable as I am with certain realities, I believe the best fit for me is the belief that all things may indeed be happening for a reason, but while realizing that I really just do not understand. I believe in using our discomfort at the pain and suffering of others as motivation to ease that very suffering and to be of service, not as an excuse to become bitter and to be angry at the Creator, or to live in a state of fear and powerlessness at the perceived chaotic and cruel nature of reality.

Must we murder someone to understand what it is to take a life?

I suspect that may indeed be the perspective of the soul, but from a 3rd density perspective, I think this is where imagination plays a big part. Ra suggested the use of the imagination for those desires not in line with The Law of One. We explore our dark desires in that safe environment, we intensify them even, accept them and love them. But we do not feed them* by actually manifesting them in the physical world.

*if our intent is STO polarization, that is.

STS is love of, and service to, self. How that service manifests may be incidental to the others it affects from the STS individual's point of view.

I think this opens up a very interesting subject for debate.

I decide to look upon this from the perspective that, in a unified Creation, it is impossible to be without being of service. In other words, it is impossible to do anything in the Creation without being in some kind of relationship with other parts of the Creation. I believe that this relationship (be it in the form of thoughts or actions) can always fall somewhere in the acceptance-control continuum. To put myself as an example, I'm extremely introverted in the sense of needing huge amounts of alone time. I may be in nature enjoying the view of a lake, for example. A group of people happens to walk by. Given that I was enjoying the peace, the quiet and the beauty of the environment, I may feel somewhat of an annoyance at having that silence disrupted. A part of me definitely wishes things were different; that those people were gone. I may not act upon this thought, I may not try to actively and physically control these people to get them out of there, but the thought itself, without falling into full blown STS territory, was definitely more into the "control" side of the spectrum. Then I may decide to balance this with other thoughts, thoughts of acceptance, like "these people have as much right to be here as I do", or "it's not reasonable that everybody be quiet so that I can enjoy quietness".

In a businessman the situations are more cut and dry. A businessman by definition is attempting to climb a hierarchy; a hierarchy of other-selves. That's a context ripe with catalyst. Will he climb the hierarchy naturally, in a moral way, on his genuine merits and hard work alone? Or will he manipulate, lie and cheat to get to the top? In the case of an STS entity I don't think there's any doubt that, when push comes to shove, they will have no qualms about choosing the latter. I don't think such a thing can ever be incidental, at least not when it comes to harvestable entities. Both STO and STS entities have to decide very consciously what kind of relationship with other-selves they are going to have.

In that sense, while I do agree with you on your words on evolution of self and realizing one's potential, the real important matter when it comes to polarization is which kind of relationship we're going to have with other-selves throughout that self-realization process. This latter process is unique to each, and it has to be discovered by the self, but it is without polarity. An STO entity still has to decide what way of service is most fulfilling to him/herself.

Not sure what you mean by faith. Could you elaborate?

Either faith in a particular metaphysical framework, or (as Q'uo expresses) faith in the sense of believing that everything is well and as it should be, no matter how bad it may look. Atheists can and often are very driven by morality, but the very belief that there is nothing beyond 3rd density imposes on them the belief that certain things (a great deal of things, in fact) are completely unacceptable. I believe that this makes great amounts of atheists who, for all intents and purposes are wonderful people, fall into the sink-hole of indifference, given that their beliefs are a handicap towards the acceptance needed to polarize STO.

[kristina]

My thread has completely derailed. I appreciate all the comments with the twists and turns of the thoughts of others but again, my thread completely derailed. :-(

[Ray711]

My thread has completely derailed. I appreciate all the comments with the twists and turns of the thoughts of others but again, my thread completely derailed. :-(

Apologies. :\

Diana, if you're interested, perhaps we can continue that conversation either in a new thread or via PM.

[Diana]

I share your doubts. I believe that it is important (as Ra said) to realize that we do not understand the nature of reality or the why of things, but I definitely agree that some pills are hard to swallow. Lately the notion of child soldiers has been popping up in my mind quite a bit, and I have trouble reconciling that reality with these concepts of acceptance, catalyst, polarization, etc. Then I think that souls who undergo extreme trauma and pain like that were perhaps leaning towards STS in their soul stream, and perhaps in having such an experience they can either decide to fully embrace STS, or start aspiring to STO. But of course, the notion that people who suffer through such tragedies somehow "brought it upon themselves" sounds so terrible. Personally, as uncomfortable as I am with certain realities, I believe the best fit for me is the belief that all things may indeed be happening for a reason, but while realizing that I really just do not understand. I believe in using our discomfort at the pain and suffering of others as motivation to ease that very suffering and to be of service, not as an excuse to become bitter and to be angry at the Creator, or to live in a state of fear and powerlessness at the perceived chaotic and cruel nature of reality.

I agree that the widespread, blanket statement that those who suffer bring it on themselves is unpalatable. On the other hand, in any situation, no matter what the outcome might be, one can shift one's reactions to actions, and also shift self-identification from being a victim to being empowered regardless of how that changes things outwardly. It is not a simple subject.

STS is love of, and service to, self. How that service manifests may be incidental to the others it affects from the STS individual's point of view.

I think this opens up a very interesting subject for debate.

I decide to look upon this from the perspective that, in a unified Creation, it is impossible to be without being of service. In other words, it is impossible to do anything in the Creation without being in some kind of relationship with other parts of the Creation. I believe that this relationship (be it in the form of thoughts or actions) can always fall somewhere in the acceptance-control continuum. To put myself as an example, I'm extremely introverted in the sense of needing huge amounts of alone time. I may be in nature enjoying the view of a lake, for example. A group of people happens to walk by. Given that I was enjoying the peace, the quiet and the beauty of the environment, I may feel somewhat of an annoyance at having that silence disrupted. A part of me definitely wishes things were different; that those people were gone. I may not act upon this thought, I may not try to actively and physically control these people to get them out of there, but the thought itself, without falling into full blown STS territory, was definitely more into the "control" side of the spectrum. Then I may decide to balance this with other thoughts, thoughts of acceptance, like "these people have as much right to be here as I do", or "it's not reasonable that everybody be quiet so that I can enjoy quietness".

You are missing the fact that many people don't even make choices. Which in a way is a choice not to choose, but there is a level of not even being aware of choice. So those who don't make conscious choices are like flotsam and jetsam in the sea of life, just being pushed around by the currents. As such, they interact, but passively. With no active choosing or interaction, I think any polarization would be haphazard and random, as within us all there is infinite potential—based on the concept of infinity and wave function alone.

In a businessman the situations are more cut and dry. A businessman by definition is attempting to climb a hierarchy; a hierarchy of other-selves. That's a context ripe with catalyst. Will he climb the hierarchy naturally, in a moral way, on his genuine merits and hard work alone? Or will he manipulate, lie and cheat to get to the top? In the case of an STS entity I don't think there's any doubt that, when push comes to shove, they will have no qualms about choosing the latter. I don't think such a thing can ever be incidental, at least not when it comes to harvestable entities. Both STO and STS entities have to decide very consciously what kind of relationship with other-selves they are going to have.

You are describing an employee situation, not that of a businessman or entrepreneur. An employee would "climb the ladder." An entrepreneur has no ladder to climb. In this category I would include sales people as they are generally autonomous and not employee types.

An entrepreneur is a "creator" of something, not a person walking in the path someone else has created (being an employee). So in considering using others to get the thing created, let's take Elon Musk as an example. He has a big vision he is manifesting. In order to work for his company (I'm thinking about SpaceX), employees must agree to work super hard and long hours. They must align with, and support, his goal of creating his vision. He did not start this business to hire people and give them a living; he is not the caretaker of his employees—that is incidental; he is the creator of a product. Though his purpose may be to help humankind, he must have a one-pointed focus to create something so massive as viable space travel. You could say he is using all the people who work for him, and their energy and sweat and abilities, to achieve his own end. He may treat them fairly, but do you think he is sitting around worrying about their wages or insurance? This is incidental to the goal of creating space travel. So is he STS- or STO-oriented?

Not sure what you mean by faith. Could you elaborate?

Either faith in a particular metaphysical framework, or (as Q'uo expresses) faith in the sense of believing that everything is well and as it should be, no matter how bad it may look. Atheists can and often are very driven by morality, but the very belief that there is nothing beyond 3rd density imposes on them the belief that certain things (a great deal of things, in fact) are completely unacceptable. I believe that this makes great amounts of atheists who, for all intents and purposes are wonderful people, fall into the sink-hole of indifference, given that their beliefs are a handicap towards the acceptance needed to polarize STO.

This is exactly where "belief" mucks it up. If you have no beliefs, you don't need anything like faith. With no beliefs, you are open, and free to experience all and receive all. It is the wave function where all outcomes are possible, as opposed the particle function where there is one collapsed outcome (the belief). Along with this ideally would be a heightened awareness of what resonates or what is needed at the moment for expansion of being/awareness/consciousness. It is an individual journey for us all, in spite of the theory we are all one. So we must each guide our own ship through the journey. But if we are guiding our ship toward a particular destination because that is what we believe,  we may manifest that for ourselves and so be it if that's what is wanted. For example, Christians believe they will go to heaven. I think they may be able to create that for themselves. For my part, I don't want limitations like that; I want to embrace existence and take in as much as I can as I evolve.

When I was growing up, as far back as age 5 or 6, I can recall thinking about the universe and if it had an edge; what was outside of it; and where it actually was. When I would go down this thought stream I would start to feel pressurized, as though something invisible was pressing in on me and in me. I think this was me not being able to hold any further information on the subject, as though I didn't have the electrical capacity. I still feel that way about those particular ideas.

Whatever one is open to is part of the journey. Maybe Christians who create a heaven together help each other navigate the vastness. I prefer the vastness.

My thread has completely derailed. I appreciate all the comments with the twists and turns of the thoughts of others but again, my thread completely derailed. :-(

Apologies. :\

Diana, if you're interested, perhaps we can continue that conversation either in a new thread or via PM.

Things sometimes develop organically like this and that's a good thing. If a moderator would split the thread that would remedy the situation.

[flofrog]

I like when Diana speaks about the vastness... which fits too the different visions of various traditions even if that vastness is also beyond apparently those traditions.

Going back to your thread kristina, would the separation of unity mentioned above, be simply the apparent separation due to the veil and just underlining how every soul, every entity is really protected whether polarized or not ?

[kristina]

I like when Diana speaks about the vastness...  which fits too the different visions of various traditions even if that vastness is also beyond apparently those traditions.

Going back to your thread kristina, would the separation of unity mentioned  above, be simply the apparent separation due to the veil and just underlining how every soul, every entity is really protected whether polarized or not ?

I really don't know to be honest. Those of Ra are speaking about a specific type of m/b/s
(protect the less sophisticated mind/body/spirit from any permanent separation from unity while the lessons of your density continue.")

[flofrog]

Could it be when you first transfer from second to third ? Think how different it is when you start to think , feel yourself suddenly separately from what you were feeling before as for exemple, part of the tree family ? Even though the veil shelters you from that last memory

[Ray711]

Things sometimes develop organically like this and that's a good thing. If a moderator would split the thread that would remedy the situation.

Yes, perhaps that is the best solution. I'll try messaging a mod after writing this (EDIT: done).

shift self-identification from being a victim to being empowered regardless of how that changes things outwardly

Yes, I agree. I believe this is the most powerful thing there is.

but there is a level of not even being aware of choice.

Sinkhole of indifference. In a way, those people are stating (unconsciously) that they want neither 4d negative nor 4d positive, but rather prefer life here on Earth, 3d, and all the polarities involved. There's this extract from TLOO that I feel is rather powerful:

19.18 ▶ Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.

Those truly helpless are those who have not consciously chosen but who repeat patterns without knowledge of the repetition or the meaning of the pattern.

That's a good example that you provided, with Elon Musk. Having thought a little about it, I would start by saying that, even though I don't know much about Musk, he has come across to me as an unhappy person.

It is very often pointed out, not just in LTOO material, but in spiritual sources in general, that love is our essence; that we are literally made of love. There are personality theories involving the core basic concept that every general type of personality is caused by a combination of genetics and of the strategies adopted during childhood on how to best go about getting love from other people (with some personality types being caused by the belief that love is downright unattainable). I'm strongly of the opinion that love is what gives meaning to our lifes, and, indeed, it is many people whose greatest regret at their deathbed is to have focused too much on work in their lifetime.

STS is called "the path of that which is not". I see it as kind of a cop-out. The "love" that motivates STS, I feel, is more like a substitute for the kind of love that the soul of the STS entity truly desires. After all, Ra said that there was no STS path when there was no veil, which makes a strong case for the view that the entire reason for the existence of the STS path is to motivate everybody else in a more efficient manner into choosing STO, making such choice all that much more significant and meaningful. And I think it was Q'uo who said that there's a kind of beautiful and sweet innocence in the souls that chose STS once they switch polarities at 6th density and start enjoying the delights of connectedness, harmony and oneness.

This is not to say that Musk is STS. I don't know what polarity he could possibly be. And with what I said I didn't mean to imply that love overrides all of our individual dreams and aspirations in life. The latter are probably the result of our own free will as individually given to each of us by the Creator. All I can say is that it is my belief that someone who hasn't balanced and fulfilled both aspects of him or herself (the love portion and the free will portion) has not found true satisfaction in life. I may be wrong, but don't believe that Musk has found such balance or satisfaction.

For example, Christians believe they will go to heaven. I think they may be able to create that for themselves. For my part, I don't want limitations like that; I want to embrace existence and take in as much as I can as I evolve.

This is why I like the information given by the Confederation so much, because they insist on the Creation being an infinite playground where infinite experiences can be had. However, there seems to be a limiting aspect to it, and that is that this infinity of experiences seems to have been put at our disposal so that we grow tired of playing in this infinite sandbox and we start turning towards the only things in said infinity that can truly satisfy us: Love, and the path back towards the Creator. In my own life I feel that I was born with the inherent knowledge that love is what matters most, and having sought other things, I feel that most activities are just substitutes that can never fill the void that we feel in abscence of unconditional love.

[Diana]

19.18 ▶ Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.

Those truly helpless are those who have not consciously chosen but who repeat patterns without knowledge of the repetition or the meaning of the pattern.

Yes, I like that quote, and I definitely agree with it.

That's a good example that you provided, with Elon Musk. Having thought a little about it, I would start by saying that, even though I don't know much about Musk, he has come across to me as an unhappy person.

It is very often pointed out, not just in LTOO material, but in spiritual sources in general, that love is our essence; that we are literally made of love. There are personality theories involving the core basic concept that every general type of personality is caused by a combination of genetics and of the strategies adopted during childhood on how to best go about getting love from other people (with some personality types being caused by the belief that love is downright unattainable). I'm strongly of the opinion that love is what gives meaning to our lifes, and, indeed, it is many people whose greatest regret at their deathbed is to have focused too much on work in their lifetime.

Yes I have heard that idea, but I think this refers to the average person. I think some people come here more focused on a mission. Their purpose is larger than interacting with individual people close to them. Balancing a global (for example) purpose with one's personal relationships would perhaps look imbalanced from the perspective of an average person whose life revolves around self, job, family and friends. To that person yes, the deathbed regret may fit, as their focus was on personal relationships and that sphere of influence they chose to play out. But to someone who came here with a more universal purpose, where reaching large numbers of beings rather than a select few or just those he/she comes into contact with is the drive, the deathbed scene may be very different.  

Also, this idea does not take into consideration love of work. Most humans think work is work, and they do it to live. That is not the case with everyone. Think of an artist or songwriter for example (and I refer to those who create from the heart, not those who create for the market). And many entrepreneurs pour enormous love into their creations which rains out into the world through their creations (and here I must also qualify, because so many people call themselves entrepreneurs today if they have a website or sell on Amazon etc., but I refer to real entrepreneurs who do it because they are compelled to create for this existence).

I read some article where people were dissing Elon Musk for working on his laptop with his children on his knees and around him, and how awful it was that he was working while he was with them. To me this is a typical human self-centered/tribal response, with no understanding of a larger purpose. To those people, the deathbed regret would fit perfectly. To focus only on the personal relationships, or even to give them priority, would decrease a person's ability to accomplish the greater goal. To someone who has come here on a big mission, I think regrets would derive from not completing that mission.

This is not to say that Musk is STS. I don't know what polarity he could possibly be. And with what I said I didn't mean to imply that love overrides all of our individual dreams and aspirations in life. The latter are probably the result of our own free will as individually given to each of us by the Creator. All I can say is that it is my belief that someone who hasn't balanced and fulfilled both aspects of him or herself (the love portion and the free will portion) has not found true satisfaction in life. I may be wrong, but don't believe that Musk has found such balance or satisfaction.

If Musk seems unhappy or dissatisfied, my guess is it is because people such as him are almost always misunderstood. Balance would be an issue, yes, I agree. But I think a person who has such a big mission must rise above enormous amounts of judgment from every angle.

This is why I like the information given by the Confederation so much, because they insist on the Creation being an infinite playground where infinite experiences can be had. However, there seems to be a limiting aspect to it, and that is that this infinity of experiences seems to have been put at our disposal so that we grow tired of playing in this infinite sandbox and we start turning towards the only things in said infinity that can truly satisfy us: Love, and the path back towards the Creator. In my own life I feel that I was born with the inherent knowledge that love is what matters most, and having sought other things, I feel that most activities are just substitutes that can never fill the void that we feel in abscence of unconditional love.

I agree, but I will add that love is very narrowly defined in this existence and I don't think we can even slightly grasp what that universal matrix is. The word, love, is so paltry and tarnished with human judgment limitation. Even the term, unconditional love, I don't think is even slightly understood. There is a detachment that seems paradoxical to the idea which in my opinion must be considered. When people think of the Creator, I see mostly an interpretation that imagines some loving father figure type (though cosmic). To me unconditional love is most closely associated with detachment, allowing for acceptance, free will, and connectedness. I don't think you can be connected to something if you are attached to it—being attached to something means you are trying to get something from it. If you are detached, your connectedness and feeling of unconditional love can flow freely.

[flofrog]

I really love that Diana...

I definitely feel a different vibration when I think ‘love’ and when I take a little time to quiet down, hard to put in words, and then feel that, shall we say melting which somehow seems to get me into very different space of detached though engulfing too, embrace of it all. That connectedness linked with detachment

I also think, like Diana, that in the case of Elon Musk, he might very well, as taken by his mission to create, in fact include in this, subconsciously, the connectedness with his children and yet we’d judge him from the outside as only interested in his work.

[Ray711]

I agree, Diana, I also think that some souls come here with a mission. My interpretation is that they are souls who are not going to be immediately polarized one way or the other, but they come here because their work could potentially aid humanity and Earth in a big way.

As for Elon Musk in particular, I never knew about that anecdote with his children. I don't really know the first thing about Musk, so I speak from ignorance. But when I listened to bits of his interview with Joe Rogan, and kept warning about the dangers of IA, it became clear to me that this man lives in great fear.

I agree completely with you on the notion of unconditional love being detached at some level. This reminds me of a couple of people (one from an NDE, and another one after taking DMT) that have stated that, although they felt the greatest and deepest love imaginable during their experience, they perceived God/the Creator to be somewhat detached from what we as souls are doing. Not completely involved, and allowing us to do as we please within Its Creation.

To me unconditional love is most closely associated with detachment, allowing for acceptance, free will, and connectedness. I don't think you can be connected to something if you are attached to it—being attached to something means you are trying to get something from it. If you are detached, your connectedness and feeling of unconditional love can flow freely.

Couldn't agree more with each and every single one of these words.

[loostudent]

Ra: I am Ra. As we have noted, each mind/body/spirit complex has several guides available to it. The persona of two of these guides is the polarity of male and female. The third is androgynous and represents a more unified conceptualization faculty. (54.3)