Control vs Discipline
11-05-2019, 10:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-05-2019, 11:30 AM by Loki.)
#1
Control vs Discipline
This might sound stupid but for me at least it is hard to gasp the difference between two capital words of the Law of One.

One CONTROL seems to be the enemy of spiritual evolution and of free will while the other "DISCIPLINE" seems to be the biggest friend of free will in achieving spiritual evolution.

Thinking about it I've realized that I cannot distinguish clearly between the two concepts. For me discipline can only be achieved using some form of control. Am I that wrong?

I would like to understand how can I discipline my personality without controlling it.
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11-05-2019, 11:29 AM,
#2
RE: Control vs Discipline
You can say that control is a discipline imbued with fear. Discipline is a control without fear.
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11-05-2019, 11:36 AM,
#3
RE: Control vs Discipline
(11-05-2019, 11:29 AM)Signifyz Wrote:  You can say that control is a discipline imbued with fear. Discipline is a control without fear.

This is an interesting idea.
Thank you.
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11-05-2019, 11:50 AM,
#4
RE: Control vs Discipline
Here is my take on the subject:

Discipline is based on love and refers to self only; control is based on fear and involves self, others, and everything else.

Discipline of the self is related to being conscious, aware, and mission-oriented. It is focusing on that which one wants to be and do, as opposed to just being a leaf blowing in the wind at the whim of circumstances—this can be related to a Wanderer, who stays focused on a mission (either consciously or intuitively) instead of getting "swept up in the maelstrom." Acceptance is very much a part of this however, as one can accept what one is, where one is, but still remain disciplined (focused on one's mission). The focus is created out of that which one loves; it is based on abundance of the universe into which one adds one's own light, which takes discipline to stay focused on and not willy-nilly being distracted by non-productive events. Discipline and acceptance are synergistic and enhance on another.

Control is based on fear. It derives from a feeling of lack. Control utilizes discipline to keep the self and the world in an artificial box (and still the discipline is based on love, such as a STS individual who controls out of love for self; or a wounded or fragmented person who controls out of fear of having lost the illusion of control, and is protecting the self from that which has hurt her/him). Control separates one from everything else; it has to, because control is an illusory wall that must be maintained either as a goal or as protection. Control and acceptance are at odds with each other.
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11-05-2019, 02:23 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-05-2019, 02:23 PM by Infinite.)
#5
RE: Control vs Discipline
I already thought in create this thread. It's a good question.
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11-06-2019, 07:45 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-06-2019, 08:19 AM by Loki.)
#6
RE: Control vs Discipline
Thank you Diana for clarification. This moves my questions to Discipline concept.

Because I am not a wanderer I do not have a mission awareness associated with my mind and I want to straighten out the concept at my level.
I try to find a rule for discipline that can be applied quite directly without apparent contradiction, I think maybe, and correct me if I am wrong, discipline of mind (for beginners) means to "force" mind to dwell in preset moment (awareness). In other words letting mind wander in the past, future, or alternative realities (day dreaming) is not productive for progress of the entity.

Is my simplification correct in any way?

Personality tendencies must be allowed as long they obey the Law of One, but they my result in lack of focus regarding things/activities one loves.
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11-06-2019, 08:50 AM,
#7
RE: Control vs Discipline
(11-06-2019, 07:45 AM)Loki Wrote:  Thank you Diana for clarification. This moves my questions to Discipline concept.

Because I am not a wanderer I do not have a mission awareness associated with my mind and I want to straighten out the concept at my level.
I try to find a rule for discipline that can be applied quite directly without apparent contradiction, I think maybe, and correct me if I am wrong, discipline of mind (for beginners) means to "force" mind to dwell in preset moment (awareness). In other words letting mind wander in the past, future, or alternative realities (day dreaming) is not productive for progress of the entity.

Is my simplification correct in any way?

Personality tendencies must be allowed as long they obey the Law of One, but they my result in lack of focus regarding things/activities one loves.

I would agree, except not "force" but guide gently, as every forcing will trigger resistance
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11-06-2019, 10:16 AM,
#8
RE: Control vs Discipline
[/quote]
I would agree, except not "force" but guide gently, as every forcing will trigger resistance
[/quote]

And this is my problem. If mind gives me some sort of Brownian motion combined with chronic day dreaming and nostalgia kicks in too often remembering past white Christmases I am left with no other mean but to "force" my mind "to be present". Math keeps me present but lock me away differently Smile

Meditating becomes a parade of halt thoughts
Visualizing is the only thing that seems to work forcing my eyes in the dark to see what I want to see but apparently this practice is not good
This means I am at lost.
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11-07-2019, 06:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-07-2019, 06:40 PM by loostudent.)
#9
RE: Control vs Discipline
Quote:And this is my problem. If mind gives me some sort of Brownian motion combined with chronic day dreaming and nostalgia kicks in too often remembering past white Christmases I am left with no other mean but to "force" my mind "to be present". Math keeps me present but lock me away differently Smile

Meditating becomes a parade of halt thoughts  
Visualizing is the only thing that seems to work forcing my eyes in the dark to see what I want to see but apparently this practice is not good
This means I am at lost.

When I want to be (in the) present and notice I'm wandering I repeat to myself: I'm here. It's like an anchor.
I still wander a lot but being more aware of it is a step forward.

"a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again" (Proverbs)
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11-07-2019, 10:12 PM,
#10
RE: Control vs Discipline
(11-06-2019, 07:45 AM)Loki Wrote:  Because I am not a wanderer I do not have a mission awareness associated with my mind and I want to straighten out the concept at my level.

A mission is not relegated to Wanderers only—anyone may have a mission (goals, what one wants to accomplish, what one wants to be).

The point is to keep coming back to focus. That's why businesses have mission statements, so that they can keep coming back to that original intent.

You decide now, no matter who you are, what you want to be/do.

(11-06-2019, 07:45 AM)Loki Wrote:  I try to find a rule for discipline that can be applied quite directly without apparent contradiction, I think maybe, and correct me if I am wrong, discipline of mind (for beginners) means to "force" mind to dwell in preset moment (awareness). In other words letting mind wander in the past, future, or alternative realities (day dreaming) is not productive for progress of the entity.

You don't have to force the mind to dwell in the present. This can be practiced easily by doing creative things such as art, music, interacting with animals, being in nature. But I would also utilize what I said above about coming back to focus to your own "mission," when the mind starts chasing the phantoms of the past and fears for the future.

There is nothing wring with daydreaming, though to be balanced, action is needed too (in my opinion).

(11-06-2019, 07:45 AM)Loki Wrote:  Personality tendencies must be allowed as long they obey the Law of One, but they my result in lack of focus regarding things/activities one loves.

Personally, I don't obey anything. For one thing, change is constant. So why would I want to obey some idea or law? I evolve, and as I do, my ideas and consciousness evolve, so I don't want to "hold onto" something I resonated with a year ago; I want to be "an empty vessel" for new information. I don't put those sorts of limits on myself.

You are who you are right now; I am who I am right now. That can be accepted, and as such I move forward, evolving and being open to the things I magnetize to myself and resonate with. At least, that is my intention.

I continue to resonate with the Ra material. Smile
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11-08-2019, 07:41 AM,
#11
RE: Control vs Discipline
Easiest way i found is to do something you have passion for. Time flies then.

Control is control of others. Do you wish to change your self or change the world?
Discipline is only self change. As you co create the world, changing you auto corrects distortions.
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11-08-2019, 09:38 AM,
#12
RE: Control vs Discipline
I like the distortion of love for discipline and fear for control. I believe that is correct. Because discipline is a form of self-control but its done with love and eye to spiritual evolution. For example, I will “control” my breathing and thoughts in meditation so that I can go deeper into the meditative state; to more and more invoke Silence.

I could also “control” my behavior around someone I don’t like to give them a picture of myself that I think is more worthy. That’s coming from a place of fear. Control is being used to manipulate.

Control is not a bad word. It’s how we use it.
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11-08-2019, 10:06 AM,
#13
RE: Control vs Discipline
Thank you all for the feedback. I think the problem came from the fact that I've tried to generalize and make principles out of the two words. And this got me confused. The two words are not intended to represent a static meaning always good or always evil. I understand Ra cannot talk semantics over narrow band communication and is on us to properly put things into places.

The scope of my confusion was mostly self-control vs self-discipline.

Here is an explanation which clarify my understanding:The author states the following: Self-discipline equals good habits, while self-control equals good choices.

Self-discipline is a strategy which helps you achieve your goals.
For example if someone is overweight and knows he needs two hours of moderate exercise daily then making time for such exercise and adding it to his daily schedule is self-discipline. To set the clock to ring at 6:00AM every morning is self-discipline.

The self-control part comes into play in equally positive way (at least this is author's opinion):
When the alarm goes off at 6:00 AM it is a matter of self-control to jump out of bed and start exercising as planned, despite you body's protest.
After getting tired 40 minutes into exercise session is a matter of self-control to keep exercising and not give up.

In other words knowing what you want and setting up the process you need to achieve it is self-discipline but making sure you follow through is self-control.

An this was the problem for me with meditating:
I've scheduled a 20 minutes session for meditation every morning which is the self-discipline part but then I had to control myself in following through with the schedule and not waste my time watching youtube videos instead, and to control myself to stay focused on the task I have chosen.

When we apply self-discipline in our lives the likelihood of having to apply self-control will be less.
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11-10-2019, 06:19 PM,
#14
RE: Control vs Discipline
They are both one and the same. Some of you are extremely complicating the thing.

The moment you practice discipline to not do something you want to do at that moment and instead choose to finish what you have been doing, you are exerting a form of control. You are overcoming the desire to do something else with your desire to be disciplined and finish what you are doing.

From early 6th, two paths must converge. You cannot be constantly captive to your mind, just like how you cant be constantly captive to your emotions.

Mind and heart must work together in harmony.
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11-11-2019, 06:25 AM,
#15
RE: Control vs Discipline
Quote:Ra: The entity polarizing positively perceives the anger. This entity, if using this catalyst mentally, blesses and loves this anger in itself. It then intensifies this anger consciously in mind alone until the folly of this red-ray energy is perceived not as folly in itself but as energy subject to spiritual entropy due to the randomness of energy being used.

Positive orientation then provides the will and faith to continue this mentally intense experience of letting the anger be understood, accepted, and integrated with the mind/body/spirit complex. The other-self which is the object of anger is thus transformed into an object of acceptance, understanding, and accommodation, all being reintegrated using the great energy which anger began.

The negatively oriented mind/body/spirit complex will use this anger in a similarly conscious fashion, refusing to accept the undirected or random energy of anger and instead, through will and faith, funneling this energy into a practical means of venting the negative aspect of this emotion so as to obtain control over other-self, or otherwise control the situation causing anger.

Control is the key to negatively polarized use of catalyst. Acceptance is the key to positively polarized use of catalyst. Between these polarities lies the potential for this random and undirected energy creating a bodily complex analog of what you call the cancerous growth of tissue.

Ra said that one polarizing positively doesn't control anger but to me it looks like it takes much self-control to consciously use this catalyst.
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