Are dolphins and whales third density?

[LoveLight111111]

They obviously behave and feel very much like humans. So are they third density beings?
And also what would happen to them when humans move into 4th density?

[zedro]

They obviously behave and feel very much like humans. So are they third density beings?
And also what would happen to them when humans move into 4th density?

I've been very curious about this too, and something odd has been happening lately that pods have been dying en mass lately (indication of them moving on?).

If they were 3rd density, and they could harvest, they could incarnate here as 4d beings in whatever form is going to be supported here (humanoid or other). If they can't harvest, well they move on to another 3d planet's under whatever forms are supported there.

Then there is the weird 2d/3d hybrids mentioned by Ra as the Bigfoots, although I'm skeptical, I feel there's a possibility this is distorted information due to Dons/LLs interests.

It's also possible they are advanced 2d on the cusp of individuating into 3d density. Remember that it's possible not all 2d beings here are initially evolved from this planet, which could explain the advanced characteristics.

[Black Dragon]

From what I have heard that resonates and makes sense: Cetaceans(whales and dolphins) are properly 3rd density life forms. This experience is available by the convergence of two factors basically: the inherent bottom-up evolutionary progress of the 2d cetacean forms has reached a pretty high point, and the other factor is certain souls that have been humans and other beings(many from Sirius as there are strong relations between the energy of Sirius and cetaceans) have chosen this path of incarnation as an efficient means of avoiding the distortions that come with humanoid dexterity and technological orientation...they have given that up for a more simplified, streamlined expression of 3d. Some of this is because some of those souls had troubles with the other extreme either on an individual, societal, or planetary level; addiction to and misuse/abuse of technology and all the things that come with fine dexterity, opposable thumbs, etc. In this way the situation is actually very similar to why Maldekians chose to incarnate in what we call "Bigfoot".

[flofrog]

This is so interesting Black Dragon... I remember reading a long time ago that there were 'anchoring light' on Earth.

When I was young I was sailing once with a man who was a classical music lover so we put some Vivaldi music on a small battery operated vinyl player really loud and he said lets see if there are some dolphins around, and suddenly like from different points of horizon we saw this sort of army of dolphins converging on us , I mean at least from three different directions, and they started to play with our boat and sailed with us for nearly twenty minutes, it was incredible. Our boat was small and at first seeing all of them approach was both extraordinary and a little scary, lol

Incredible species

[zedro]

...have chosen this path of incarnation as an efficient means of avoiding the distortions that come with humanoid dexterity and technological orientation...they have given that up for a more simplified, streamlined expression of 3d.

Interesting theory, it follows my views on why someone would choose the perverbial hermit/guru/monk path on (near) final 3d incarnation, basically that they have fulfilled their total experience 'with', and now they want to experience (or test their ability to go) 'without'.

[Black Dragon]

...have chosen this path of incarnation as an efficient means of avoiding the distortions that come with humanoid dexterity and technological orientation...they have given that up for a more simplified, streamlined expression of 3d.

Interesting theory, it follows my views on why someone would choose the perverbial hermit/guru/monk path on (near) final 3d incarnation, basically that they have fulfilled their total experience 'with', and now they want to experience (or test their ability to go) 'without'.

Absolutely. One thing though to keep in mind: Going straight from an incarnation in which technology was misused and abused to one that completely abstains from/is unable to use technology is a useful thing to do to balance, but it is not a final balancing act, just a big step achieved by experiencing the opposite extreme. More rounding/integration would require further experiences of balancing how to use technology responsibly and ethically and in moderation, so probably a further 3d lifetime as a humanoid with access to technology.

[Minyatur]

Based on the Ra material, I would lean to think that we are the only planned and invested 3D form (bipedal ape) within the Logoic design of our planet for the 3D and 4D experience.

Certain 2D lifeform species could still lean very close toward 3D within the high-end spectrum of the 2D experience and more easily achieve self-awareness and experience it within their lifetime, but the true 3D activated experience would only within our specie.

I did not find nor remember this being clearly stated within the material though, so I could be wrong in my assumptions and extrapolations from what I read. The material does say that at the Universe level there are many other forms, but for our Logos and neighboring Logos it seems to only mention the bipedal vehicle for both the 3D and 4D experience.

[zedro]

Yeah it's a problem with the Ra channelings, that omission doesn't signify non existence as plenty can fall under the LoC (especially since humans kill these life forms routinely, mentioning that they are 3d could be karmic interference). I think there's a difference between planned native 3d forms, and those who were brought here by foreign entities, either wholesale or created through genetic manipulation.

Since this is a refugee planet of many soul groups, I could imagine some souls requiring such a specifically different species to incarnate to. We'll find out one day.

[Black Dragon]

Yeah it's a problem with the Ra channelings, that omission doesn't signify non existence as plenty can fall under the LoC (especially since humans kill these life forms routinely, mentioning that they are 3d could be karmic interference). I think there's a difference between planned native 3d forms, and those who were brought here by foreign entities, either wholesale or created through genetic manipulation.

Since this is a refugee planet of many soul groups, I could imagine some souls requiring such a specifically different species to incarnate to. We'll find out one day.

Different strokes for different folks, yet some how we are meant to come together: not as a congealed mass of "grey goo", but a beautiful mosaic where each individual contributes to the whole in their own way. Hints of this are here but we will feel the full benefit in 4d. Even in the context of a specifically 4d STO positive world "it takes all kinds to make world". So much richness of backgrounds and diversity of distortions. So much potential for epic levels of integration.

[Sacred Fool]

 
9 April 1995

Questioner: OK, I’ll ask a question … (inaudible). I was thinking about the lovemaking of whales. It seems that the whales are intelligent beings and I just thought it’s such an enormous thing for these huge beings. And could you please comment on the energy exchange between these beings? Is it … do they experience a total energy exchange besides just the physical … do they feel the love … for them is it an act of also reaching out besides just the progression of the physical evolution?

(Pause)

I am Q’uo, and am again with this instrument and am aware of your query, my sister. The pause in our response was due to the need for this instrument to again offer the challenge and for the process to be completed. We beg your forgiveness.

In response to your query, may we say that the entities which you know as the whale, in many of its species—though not in each species—resides a kind of consciousness which is much like your own, but in some ways is more, shall we say, advanced in that the entities are able to sense, each with the other, the nature of what you would call the emotions, the motivations, and the natural expression of them.

When this expression of energies is in the area of the red ray sexual energy exchange, there are many of these entities who have more than the red and orange and yellow centers of energy available for the moving of energy and the sharing of this energy, so that such sharings are oftentimes expressions of the unity which these entities feel with each other and with the creation about them. In such expressions, there is little of the confusions and distortions that so oftentimes plague their two-footed brothers and sisters who live upon the land surfaces. The expressions of energies are much more, shall we say, pure and clear to the point; and with clarity to the point, then there is the movement of the consciousness beyond the immediate point of the reproduction of the species and the satisfaction of the red-ray sexual urges.
Is there a further query, my sister?

Questioner: Yes, could I extrapolate from your comments that the whales are the third-density, the self-aware species? Are they also like wanderers—beings of high density who incarnate in third-density physical bodies?

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. This is incorrect. The achievement of the species, in some cases, of this species of whales as you call them, is a result of their own evolution upon this planetary surface.
Is there a further query, my sister?

Questioner: I would just clarify then—they are self-conscious entities who originated from Earth. Right?

I am Q’uo, and this is correct. Is there another query?

Questioner: Not at this time, thank you.

 
   

[Patrick]

Are Q'uo basically saying that some entities can become self aware but without being enspirited? I thought that the spirit was the great "I am" plugin itself down in the mind/body and making it a self aware mind/body/spirit.

[Infinite]

I don't think so. It's likely they are higher second-density forms, but not with third density consciousness.

[Minyatur]

Are Q'uo basically saying that some entities can become self aware but without being enspirited? I thought that the spirit was the great "I am" plugin itself down in the mind/body and making it a self aware mind/body/spirit.

If it is like I said in my first post, that by being at the higher-end of the 2D spectrum they may have a great likelihood to become enspirited, perhaps early in their lifetime, which is the mark of becoming harvestable for 3D. The distinction is more along the lines of incarnating as 3D consciousness within these bodies versus becoming harvestable within these bodies and reincarnating as something other to truly begin their experience of 3D. If the specie has a great likelihood of becoming harvestable early on, then they can have a glimpse of social experience into the 3D potential as 2D lifeforms, which is a bit like us connecting to 4D energies and experiencing them but which remains unlike an actual 4D experience.

The Ra material says animals are the most predominant to become enspirited, then vegetables (most especially trees) and also in certain cases minerals that are invested with love by humans. So quite a variety of things can become enspirited and achieve harvest toward 3D.

[Sacred Fool]

January 20, 2009

Jim: This is T’s question: “I came across a great book called Cosmos written by Carl Sagan. [1] It describes the intelligence of whales vividly and also describes the cruel behavior of mankind toward them and dolphins. In brief, Sagan says dolphins and whales are telepathic and self-conscious beings and their spiritual level is even higher than that of mankind and that their original homeland is Earth since eons ago.

“Meanwhile in our LOO study group in Taipei we just read Session No. 90 and Ra there talked about their supposition about opposable thumbs and that it seems to be one of the key factors contributing to mankind’s warring tendencies.

“My main question is, how may we learn from whales and dolphins on a steady, daily basis? Is it imperative that we should learn to communicate with dolphins and whales? If so, will Q’uo teach us how to communicate with them?”

(Carla channeling)
We are those known to you as the principle of Q’uo. Greetings in the love and in the light of the one infinite Creator, in whose service we come to you this evening. We wish to thank this sitting circle and especially the one known as T for calling us to your circle of seeking. We are very happy to join you for this session of working and to talk with you concerning the whales and dolphins of your oceans.

However, as always, we would first request of you that you use your discrimination as you listen to or read these words, taking those thoughts which are resonant to you and are helpful and leaving the rest behind. We would greatly appreciate your doing this as it allows us the freedom to offer our opinions without being concerned that we shall trespass upon your sacred spiritual process or infringe on your free will. We thank you for this consideration.

Just as your species has had its evolution interrupted by genetic manipulation many thousands of your years in the past, so has the evolution of those known to you as dolphins and whales and other cetaceans such as porpoises been interrupted, not by those from elsewhere than your planet but by those on the island-continent you have called Atlantis.

The consciousness of these mammals was enhanced by the genetic manipulation which caused the so-called human and the so-called cetacean [2] to be bonded and blended and unified into that which had every appearance of being a cetacean, yet that which now possessed a spirit complex of third-density level.

Thusly, the natural process of reproduction gradually invested all of these species with third-density consciousness. Consequently, you and the whales and dolphins are indeed brothers, moving through the third-density major cycle of 76,000 or so of your years.

The necessity to engage in a dialogue between humans and dolphins, humans and whales, and humans and porpoises is attractive and compelling to many of your scientists, who grasp the unusual intelligence of these ocean-going mammals. Perhaps we may say that the best way to learn from the cetaceans of your planet is to imagine how you might experience third density if your field of endeavor were limited to those activities which could be accomplished without the use of hands with the opposable thumbs which the one known as T mentioned in his query.

What would it be like to have a long life in which there were no jobs necessary in order to pay bills, where there were no resources to guard or territory to defend?

How would your life be different if you were free to choose what dreams and visions with which you wished to occupy yourself; what meditations in which you wished to encompass yourself; what contemplation you wished to enjoy, not only for an hour or a few minutes but also for all your waking hours for an entire life?

If your joy was the dance of harmony with the elements, the dance of fellowship with those of your kind and the dance of the mated family with the mated parents’ children, how would you be different than you are today? How would the environment of leisure and ease and rhythm affect you?

How would the lack of necessity for creating and using tools affect you?

The transcript continues on.

  

[Patrick]

...
What would it be like to have a long life in which there were no jobs necessary in order to pay bills, where there were no resources to guard or territory to defend?
...

So they are living the dream !

And to think that nothing is preventing us from creating such a society for ourselves. Only our poor collective choices.

[Minyatur]

...
What would it be like to have a long life in which there were no jobs necessary in order to pay bills, where there were no resources to guard or territory to defend?
...

So they are living the dream !

And to think that nothing is preventing us from creating such a society for ourselves.  Only our poor collective choices.

The Logos knowing all our souls are clearly here to experience the potentials enabled by our opposable thumbs: *roll eyes*

[zedro]

So they are living the dream !

And to think that nothing is preventing us from creating such a society for ourselves.  Only our poor collective choices.

STS forces have put alot of energy into enslaving humanity at a grand scale, both our conscience and physicality through power, manipulation and rulesets. Just a minor detail.

[Patrick]

So they are living the dream !

And to think that nothing is preventing us from creating such a society for ourselves.  Only our poor collective choices.

STS forces have put alot of energy into enslaving humanity at a grand scale, both our conscience and physicality through power, manipulation and rulesets. Just a minor detail.

The way I see it, that is just them increasing the difficulty level of the game.  The choices are still ours.  We are not victims.  But yeah, this planet is set to hardcore.  At least they allow respawn!

[zedro]

The way I see it, that is just them increasing the difficulty level of the game.  The choices are still ours.  We are not victims.  But yeah, this planet is set to hardcore.  At least they allow respawn!

I don't disagree, it has been a card game between the light and dark, where the rules only reveal themselves (and perhaps evolve) the longer the game is played. The perspective and value given to the machinations of the game are related in the attachment to the outcome, or the position you wind up in internally in the resulting melee

[Sacred Fool]

The Logos knowing all our souls are clearly here to experience the potentials enabled by our opposable thumbs: *roll eyes*

Jim: His second question is, “According to Ra Session 90, our Logos seemed to be in favor of the bipedal monkey [physical body]. If so, then how come dolphins and whales seem to get the upper hand over mankind in spiritual development? It seems they don’t have the heavy veil of forgetting as we do. Why is that?”

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. The one infinite Creator, my brother, was not responsible for choosing the bipedal monkey, or great ape, over any other species. Rather, it was the social memory complex known as Yahweh who felt that this form would be a very efficient one for exploring the question of polarity. The Creator is utterly willing for any species to achieve a third-density level of awareness and to take on, therefore, the spirit complex as a portion of the self.

The potential of intelligence and insight in humans, the descendants of great apes, and in cetaceans, those who originally were land animals but evolved into sea-going animals, is roughly the same, the ratio of brain size to body size being similar. However, the human species has become increasingly distracted from the deeper levels of contemplation, meditation, imagination, insight and dreaming.

The consciousness that is common to both species has been greatly interrupted by the intellect of the human species, which has more and more, as your centuries have rolled by, become involved in making choices, none of which bear upon spiritual questions.

Consequently, the great blessing and resource of the frontal lobes of your brains is not used. There is no concerted effort to develop and learn the use of these frontal lobes. The process of achieving connection with this part of the brain is not that which is widely taught.

This instrument would say that the human species has shot itself in the foot. It has turned its back upon a great spiritual resource, that which is a great enhancer of the consciousness that is the gift of the Creator to all species in third density, what they have in common. That is the same for all. However, humans have chosen to continue to develop their ability to use tools, make connections, and find ways to do things in the arena of the world with its many gadgets, its many machines, its more and more sophisticated electronics.

The spiritual aspect of those frontal lobes has given away to the sharpening and ever more complex use of the intellect, that part of the mind which is different for each entity, that part of the mind which is not liable to find connections between self and other-self. Consequently, humans have locked themselves into isolated pockets of awareness that begin and end with [the area between] left ear to right ear and top of the head to bottom of the brain.

Humans have done a marvelous job of developing the possibilities of intellectual thought while they have left carelessly neglected, and for the most part abandoned, the deeper realms of insight, meditation and contemplation, those activities that connect the frontal lobes with the rest of the brain.

You have not had the choice of those sages from Atlantis. You do not have freedom to choose the environment of land and the opposable thumb or the water that goes on forever with no boundaries and no limits to entrain the mind and shut it down. Therefore, it may well seem that the whales and dolphins have more wisdom than their human counterparts. However, their and your resources are the same. It is the environmental difference that has shaped the way the two species have used third density to make their choice of polarity.

Funny how Q'uo doesn't blame "the elites" and all that jazz, but you and me for being--shall we say--small minded rather than using our apparatus expansively to connect with spirit.  Portrayed this way, we've had a comparatively pathetic run, with so much of our potential interface with beauty and spirit left by the wayside in favor of conceptualization and aggrandizement. 

Stepping back a bit, this makes the Confederation attempt to increase our harvest look like a salvage operation.  Oddly, I hadn't seen that larger picture in quite that light previously.  Are we pretty much a misguided shipwreck from which only a few passengers can be rescued?  And all this while deep feeling animals with more access to green ray energy than we (whom we've abused mightily) swim around us, looking on?

   

[Minyatur]

Funny how Q'uo doesn't blame "the elites" and all that jazz, but you and me for being--shall we say--small minded rather than using our apparatus expansively to connect with spirit.  Portrayed this way, we've had a comparatively pathetic run, with so much of our potential interface with beauty and spirit left by the wayside in favor of conceptualization and aggrandizement. 

Stepping back a bit, this makes the Confederation attempt to increase our harvest look like a salvage operation.  Oddly, I hadn't seen that larger picture in quite that light previously.  Are we pretty much a misguided shipwreck from which only a few passengers can be rescued?  And all this while deep feeling animals with more access to green ray energy than we (whom we've abused mightily) swim around us, looking on?

I thought we were already experiencing a more rapid polarization than what is the default of 3D and this is what some have against our experience.

[Sacred Fool]

I thought we were already experiencing a more rapid polarization than what is the default of 3D and this is what some have against our experience.

I'm not sure what you mean.  I don't know that there is a default graduation rate.  For instance, the rate among cetaceans might be significantly higher than that for naked apes.

Who has what against our experience?  I don't understand this.  Are you referring to circumstances being difficult so as to possibly prompt humans to look more deeply into themselves?  Resistance to deeper feeling and being is what one comes to expect in these parts.

   

[flofrog]

Stepping back a bit, this makes the Confederation attempt to increase our harvest look like a salvage operation.  Oddly, I hadn't seen that larger picture in quite that light previously.  Are we pretty much a misguided shipwreck from which only a few passengers can be rescued?  And all this while deep feeling animals with more access to green ray energy than we (whom we've abused mightily) swim around us, looking on?

   

Funny, on one side, I do totally see whales and dolphins as, yes, as you mention, wisdom and deep kindness, but on the other side, I can’t see harvest as a kind of salvage operation. This web site here where we often discuss harvest with a sad view of it, this web site is microscopic compared to the wide tumult that our huge humane family fights everyday. How do we know that the harvest might be so small and in need of salvation. Things have changed since Don was asking those questions. I feel that there’s a huge courageous endeavor in all parts of the world to meet challenges and catalysts with much more generosity and kind interaction than we seem to acknowledge here.

Of course just my view...

[Sacred Fool]

  

Jim: “According to information from Q’uo, the fourth density is coming very soon. When Earth enters the fourth density fully, I suppose there will be two kinds of fourth density beings: one looking like humans and the other looking like dolphins or whales. Is this correct?”

We are those of Q’uo and are aware of your query, my brother. My brother, it is certainly correct in terms of the early graduates of third density, for it takes a certain amount of what you call time and experience in fourth density in order to begin to enjoy the freedom that this density offers. We are not those who can probe your future in terms of linear time, for in the linear space/time sense these choices have not yet been made.

But within fourth density there is the capacity of the physical body to make choices as to what form it would wish to use. This opens the choice not only to the human form and the form of the cetaceans but other forms as well.

So we would say, my brother, in early fourth density there certainly shall be found many fourth-density cetaceans and many fourth-density humans, in that their forms continue to resemble those species. As fourth density evolves, so shall the choices of its souls.

  
  
Looking out beyond the coming time of reckoning, displacement and turmoil, the road ahead does seem to offer humans interesting opportunities to double back and spend more time in contemplation and a more inward-outward integration of self-aware being with nature. 

It's interesting to envision such a balance.  It reminds me of stories of astral plane life where entities are able to explore their art or other such pursuits in a much more peaceable context.

   

[Sacred Fool]

Things have changed since Don was asking those questions.  I feel that there’s a huge courageous endeavor in all parts of the world to meet challenges and catalysts with much more generosity and kind interaction than we seem to acknowledge  here.

Of course, there's no definitive answer or perspective on this.  I'm just expressing a feeling in response to Q'uo's discussion of how misguided we've become, how much of our potential we've thrown away, due to our fetishising intellect and rationality at the expense of exploring Spirit.  I find that very disheartening. 

And yet, we will have to move through this time of bringing our 3D journey to a conclusion.  After that long transition, we can begin a new road and perhaps embrace a much fuller spectrum of spirit and love and nature and Divinity?

  

[Minyatur]

I thought we were already experiencing a more rapid polarization than what is the default of 3D and this is what some have against our experience.

I'm not sure what you mean.  I don't know that there is a default graduation rate.  For instance, the rate among cetaceans might be significantly higher than that for naked apes.

Who has what against our experience?  I don't understand this.  Are you referring to circumstances being difficult so as to possibly prompt humans to look more deeply into themselves?  Resistance to deeper feeling and being is what one comes to expect in these parts.

I was referring more to the pre-veil 3D experience in contrast to the veiled experience. Not really sure how we rank among other veiled experiences and if the comparison is relevant.

I've seen a few times that it was said that the veil is not worth the more accelerated evolution it offers. There were multiple reasons associated to that, the hells we can experience and the dynamics it creates among us and other species for examples.

[flofrog]

His second question is, “According to Ra Session 90, our Logos seemed to be in favor of the bipedal monkey [physical body]. If so, then how come dolphins and whales seem to get the upper hand over mankind in spiritual development? It seems they don’t have the heavy veil of forgetting as we do. Why is that?”

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. The one infinite Creator, my brother, was not responsible for choosing the bipedal monkey, or great ape, over any other species. Rather, it was the social memory complex known as Yahweh who felt that this form would be a very efficient one for exploring the question of polarity. The Creator is utterly willing for any species to achieve a third-density level of awareness and to take on, therefore, the spirit complex as a portion of the self.

The potential of intelligence and insight in humans, the descendants of great apes, and in cetaceans, those who originally were land animals but evolved into sea-going animals, is roughly the same, the ratio of brain size to body size being similar. However, the human species has become increasingly distracted from the deeper levels of contemplation, meditation, imagination, insight and dreaming.

(...)

You have not had the choice of those sages from Atlantis. You do not have freedom to choose the environment of land and the opposable thumb or the water that goes on forever with no boundaries and no limits to entrain the mind and shut it down. Therefore, it may well seem that the whales and dolphins have more wisdom than their human counterparts. However, their and your resources are the same. It is the environmental difference that has shaped the way the two species have used third density to make their choice of polarity.

This might explain the instant overall awe that we, poor humans, feel when seeing dolphins or whales..

[Sacred Fool]

This  might explain the instant overall awe that we, poor humans, feel when seeing dolphins or whales.

If you believe that some or many species of cetaceans are developementally superior to humans, then I think some awe is required in order to think about how they relate to us, not with hatred, but with so much love after we've abused them in such brutal disgusting ways....and continue to do so to some extent.

But then, we've also abused humans likewise for a longer period of time and they still love us, right?

    

[Minyatur]

His second question is, “According to Ra Session 90, our Logos seemed to be in favor of the bipedal monkey [physical body]. If so, then how come dolphins and whales seem to get the upper hand over mankind in spiritual development? It seems they don’t have the heavy veil of forgetting as we do. Why is that?”

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. The one infinite Creator, my brother, was not responsible for choosing the bipedal monkey, or great ape, over any other species. Rather, it was the social memory complex known as Yahweh who felt that this form would be a very efficient one for exploring the question of polarity. The Creator is utterly willing for any species to achieve a third-density level of awareness and to take on, therefore, the spirit complex as a portion of the self.

The One Infinite Creator, as like literally beyond our Octave and transcendent to all infinite Octaves of Creation, sure. But for the Logos, as was asked in the question, then the material clearly states that it is its own choosing within its design of things:

90.11 Questioner: Now my line of questioning I am trying to link to the creation of various Logos and their original use of a system of archetypes in their creation and I apologize for possibly a lack of efficiency in doing this, but I find this somewhat difficult. Now, for this particular Logos in the beginning, prior to its creation of first density, did the archetypical system which it had chosen for its creations include the forms that would evolve, and in particular third density human form, or was this related to the archetypical concept at all?

Ra: I am Ra. The choice of form is prior to the formation of the archetypical mind. As the Logos creates Its plan for evolution, then the chosen form is invested.

90.12 Questioner: Was there a reason for choosing the forms that have evolved upon this planet and, if so, what was it?

Ra: I am Ra. We are not entirely sure why our Logos and several neighboring Logoi of approximately the same space/time of flowering chose the bipedal, erect form of the second-density apes to invest. It has been our supposition, which we share with you as long as you are aware that this is mere opinion, that our Logos was interested in, shall we say, further intensifying the veiling process by offering to the third-density form the near complete probability for the development of speech taking complete precedence over concept communication or telepathy. We also have the supposition that the so-called opposable thumb was looked upon as an excellent means of intensifying the veiling process so that rather than rediscovering the powers of the mind the third-density entity would, by the form of its physical manifestation, be drawn to the making, holding, and using of physical tools.

To be fair there is some good stuff from Q'uo, but I always try to take it with a grain of salt.

From what is said, it seems like the choice of the bipedal monkey predates even the formation of our 1D. So I highly doubt Yahweh had any play in any of it.

[Sacred Fool]

From what is said, it seems like the choice of the bipedal monkey predates even the formation of our 1D. So I highly doubt Yahweh had any play in any of it.

I don't see these as being necessarily contradictory.  You don't create the flowers, but you arrange them per your garden design.  And you may breed some plants for various characteristics.  The Yahweh group, so they say, chose to "help" the process along by doing what they did while Logos provided the raw materials.  Does that make sense?

 

I've seen a few times that it was said that the veil is not worth the more accelerated evolution it offers. There were multiple reasons associated to that, the hells we can experience and the dynamics it creates among us and other species for examples.

I'd like to read these.  Can you give me a clue as to where I might find them?