Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
03-19-2009, 01:26 PM,
#1
Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
We speak much to the Graduation and the Harvest, but little has been mentioned as regards the Octaves. Are we presumably completing 3D in its 7th Octave and entering 8th, in as much as we are entering 4D in its first?

Perhaps this is as appropriate of a question on "The Harvest" thread?

More musings....

Q
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03-19-2009, 03:25 PM,
#2
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
makes sense to me
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03-19-2009, 03:54 PM,
#3
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
I don't know but it seems to me that: If we considered it like that. We should also be able to point out empirical events that would suggest this. What kind of events or evidence are we looking for to see if it were true? What would entering 3rd density 8th octave imply?

I don't know this.
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03-19-2009, 06:50 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-19-2009, 08:36 PM by Quantum.)
#4
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(03-19-2009, 03:54 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote:  I don't know but it seems to me that: If we considered it like that. We should also be able to point out empirical events that would suggest this. What kind of events or evidence are we looking for to see if it were true? What would entering 3rd density 8th octave imply?

I don't know this.

There of course is absolutely no empirical evidence for anything whatsoever as regards these conversations and musings, particularly for those things that have their domain in the unknown. The entire Law of One
resides within the unknown, and thus wholly lacking in empirical evidence as a result. This information is all relative to the Law of One only, this as given by RA. Suggesting that it is supported later, even by Quo, is no more empirical than would be any other source named or unnamed before. It is all conjecture, based further on esoteric information entirely. My point is that, according to the Ra Material, all densities have 8 Octaves as a rule. This being assumed as so, if Earth is completing its 3rd density, then just as Alchemikey indicated above, it makes sense to deduce and assume by logical, albeit, further conjecture, that we are indeed presently in the 7th Octave of 3D, this according to our understanding as given by Ra, and thus ready to enter the 8th Octave of 3D which is a subset and the same as the 1st octave in 4D.

It brings to mind a host of other questions I might reserve until this one may be further addressed, in as much as a discussion on Octaves might as presumably be as interesting as is the single one on density, i.e. 3D moving to 4th? Any thoughts?

Q
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04-05-2009, 12:04 PM,
#5
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
It's been pointed out before that one can consider a rough mapping between the 3-D octave and the Spiral Dynamics valuing memes.
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04-05-2009, 11:51 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-09-2009, 06:37 PM by Quantum.)
#6
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-05-2009, 12:04 PM)zenmaster Wrote:  It's been pointed out before that one can consider a rough mapping between the 3-D octave and the Spiral Dynamics valuing memes.





Dear Zenmaster,

Hello my friend, greetings to you, and thank you for your response. Most interesting. I took your recommendation to heart, as well as the liberty and time required to do so, and read a great deal on the good Mr. Ken Wilbur, this with respect to his general philosophy, and more particularly his structure of thought processes as regards "Spiral Dynamics" http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Spiral_Dynamics.htm .

Most intriguing. After having done done so, it seems clear that there indeed seems to exist a great deal of congruency with it and the LOO material in a manner. Thank you for sharing. I am as equally intrigued by what Wilbur describes in other links on the site as regards the fallacies involved in irrational thinking and understanding, these with respect to much of the New Age Movement in general, such as for example the assumptions relating to "creating your own reality" notions http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/NatureOfNature.htm , and sadly how such uninformed thinking/understanding if not in proper context may lead to self destructive processes at worse, verses arrested infantile spiritual growth at best. I encourage all to take a moment as well.

Thank you again,

Q
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04-06-2009, 01:24 AM,
#7
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-05-2009, 11:51 PM)Quantum Wrote:  Dear Zenmaster,

Hello my friend, greetings to you, and thank you for your response. Most interesting. I took your recommendation to heart, as well as the liberty and time required to do so, and read a great deal on the good Mr. Ken Wilbur, this with respect to his general philosophy, and more particularly his structure of thought processes as regards "Spiral Dynamics" http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Spiral_Dynamics.htm .

Most intriguing. After having done done so, it seems clear that there indeed seems to exist a great deal of congruency with it and the LOO material in a manner. Thank you for sharing. I am as equally intrigued by what Wilbur describes in other links on the site as regards the fallacies involved in irrational thinking and understanding, these with respect to much of the New Age Movement in general, such as for example the assumptions relating to "creating your own reality" notions http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/NatureOfNature.htm, and sadly how such uninformed thinking/understanding if not in proper context may lead to self destructive processes at worse, verses arrested infantile spiritual growth at best. I encourage all to take a moment as well.

Thank you again,

Q
Hi Quantum,

I agree, pre-trans fallacies are rampant in new-age related movements. It is as if mystical pedestals of numinosity are being constructed for escapism.

In addition to Wilber's work, I'd also recommend Andrew Cohen's work, such as with the intersubjective experience and western sprituality. Also, I found Genpo Roshi's "Big Mind" exercises quite insightful. There are several youtube videos of talks from these people.
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04-09-2009, 02:56 PM,
#8
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-06-2009, 01:24 AM)zenmaster Wrote:  
(04-05-2009, 11:51 PM)Quantum Wrote:  Dear Zenmaster,

Hello my friend, greetings to you, and thank you for your response. Most interesting. I took your recommendation to heart, as well as the liberty and time required to do so, and read a great deal on the good Mr. Ken Wilbur, this with respect to his general philosophy, and more particularly his structure of thought processes as regards "Spiral Dynamics" http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Spiral_Dynamics.htm .

Most intriguing. After having done done so, it seems clear that there indeed seems to exist a great deal of congruency with it and the LOO material in a manner. Thank you for sharing. I am as equally intrigued by what Wilbur describes in other links on the site as regards the fallacies involved in irrational thinking and understanding, these with respect to much of the New Age Movement in general, such as for example the assumptions relating to "creating your own reality" notions http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/NatureOfNature.htm, and sadly how such uninformed thinking/understanding if not in proper context may lead to self destructive processes at worse, verses arrested infantile spiritual growth at best. I encourage all to take a moment as well.

Thank you again,

Q
Hi Quantum,

I agree, pre-trans fallacies are rampant in new-age related movements. It is as if mystical pedestals of numinosity are being constructed for escapism.

In addition to Wilber's work, I'd also recommend Andrew Cohen's work, such as with the intersubjective experience and western sprituality. Also, I found Genpo Roshi's "Big Mind" exercises quite insightful. There are several youtube videos of talks from these people.

Hello zenmaster,

I have taken it upon myself once again to view your recommendations. Thank you for a 2nd time. It seems very congruent indeed, and almost a heeding of sorts as a means of avoiding the trappings and pitfalls of what I have come to name "Metaphizzler Consciousness" which may do no more harm than simple daydreaming without substance of a better world, to an outright arrested spiritual development.

Allow me to direct you to an an interesting model that irpsit, as a biologist, has delved into on "The Harvest" : What is Everyone's Gut Feeling on 2012 as though by coincidence to the Spiral Dynamics model that Ken Wilbur discusses. Pay particular attention to his breakdown of man in 3D to see the similarity.
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04-10-2009, 12:15 AM,
#9
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-09-2009, 02:56 PM)Quantum Wrote:  Hello zenmaster,

I have taken it upon myself once again to view your recommendations. Thank you for a 2nd time. It seems very congruent indeed, and almost a heeding of sorts as a means of avoiding the trappings and pitfalls of what I have come to name "Metaphizzler Consciousness" which may do no more harm than simple daydreaming without substance of a better world, to an outright arrested spiritual development.

Allow me to direct you to an an interesting model that irpsit, as a biologist, has delved into on "The Harvest" : What is Everyone's Gut Feeling on 2012 as though by coincidence to the Spiral Dynamics model that Ken Wilbur discusses. Pay particular attention to his breakdown of man in 3D to see the similarity.
There are certainly many aspects to the human condition, and all of these may follow an identifiable, evolutionary path. Evolutionary, meaning some condition has been subsumed or transcended to a more all-encompassing or advantageous new condition. For example, there are evolutions of intention, behavior, culture, and society in Wilber's 4 quadrant model. In the "lower right" quadrant, the "social" quadrant, the developmental line has a recognizable hierarchy with: survival clan, ethnic tribe, feudal empire, early nation, corporate state, value communities, holistic commons, integral meshworks, etc. This line is also based on another developmental line of foraging, horticultural, agrarian, industrial, informational, etc.

Each developmental level may have both healthy (supportive) and pathological (destructive) manifestations. For example, "Metaphizzler Consciousness" and shortcut thinking are pathological conditions associated with the "Green vMeme" level of the Spiral Dynamics model. It's as if one meets a part of themselves there, for the first time, and gets "stuck" in a kind of trap. So there is slowed progress towards that jump to "2nd tier" thinking or feeling. As Ra said: "In order for the Transformation of Mind to occur, one principle governing the use of the deep mind must be abandoned."

Have you considered this:
subdensity - SD vMeme - Logos Archetype - Mind - Body - Sprit
1 - Beige - Matrix - Magician - Justice - Devil
2 - Purple - Potentiator - Priestess - Hermit - Tower
3 - Red - Catalyst - Empress - Wheel - Star
4 - Blue - Experience - Emporor - Strength - Moon
5 - Orange - Significator - Heiorphant - Hanged Man - Sun
6 - Green - Transformation - Lovers - Death - Judgement
7 - Yellow - Great Way - Chariot - Temperance - World
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04-10-2009, 10:06 AM,
#10
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-10-2009, 12:15 AM)zenmaster Wrote:  Have you considered this:
subdensity - SD vMeme - Logos Archetype - Mind - Body - Sprit
1 - Beige - Matrix - Magician - Justice - Devil
2 - Purple - Potentiator - Priestess - Hermit - Tower
3 - Red - Catalyst - Empress - Wheel - Star
4 - Blue - Experience - Emporor - Strength - Moon
5 - Orange - Significator - Heiorphant - Hanged Man - Sun
6 - Green - Transformation - Lovers - Death - Judgement
7 - Yellow - Great Way - Chariot - Temperance - World

Interestingly, Don inquired along these lines during the Ra sessions. Here's the interchange:

Ra, Book IV, Session 78 Wrote:Questioner: Are the seven archetypes for mind a function of or related to the seven densities that are to be experienced in the octave?

Ra: I am Ra. The relationship is tangential in that no congruency may be seen. However, the progress through the archetypes has some of the characteristics of the progress through the densities. These relationships may be viewed without being, shall we say, pasted one upon the other.

3D Sunset
Ra Book III Session 65.
Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.
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04-10-2009, 11:13 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-10-2009, 11:16 AM by Richard.)
#11
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
Wilbur writes:

Quote:Rather he suggests that the transrational interpretation of "you create your own reality" can be easily understood in the spinach example. It is how you understand/interpret/define and evaluate/judge/relate to your experience of the spinach (VAKOG) that "creates" the reality you experience around the spinach (the phen-noumena/epistemology). The spinach has a "nature." It IS what it is (green - in the human visible spectrum, pungent - in the human olfactory spectrum, chewy - in the human kinesthetic spectrum, etc.). However, how we "understand/identify" it (or as I like to say - define and evaluate "defeval" it, or, how we interpret it and project our values onto it "interproject" it), "creates" how we personally experience it. "We create our own reality", not by our thoughts changing the "nature" of reality, but by our thoughts/defevals/interprojections/mind-sets creating our "experience" of reality. We can enjoy the sensations, imbue the spinach with positive meaning, imagine we are Popeye, etc.

Perfect…absolutely perfect explanation of “creating your own reality”. The only way to actually influence consensus reality is to realize that you can only affect your perception of said reality. But, really…isn’t this the essense of the Qu’o teachings?

Richard
The boldness of asking deep questions may require unforeseen flexibility if we are to accept the answers. ~ Brian Greene

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04-10-2009, 11:34 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-10-2009, 12:03 PM by zenmaster.)
#12
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-10-2009, 10:06 AM)3D Sunset Wrote:  Interestingly, Don inquired along these lines during the Ra sessions. Here's the interchange:

Ra, Book IV, Session 78 Wrote:Questioner: Are the seven archetypes for mind a function of or related to the seven densities that are to be experienced in the octave?

Ra: I am Ra. The relationship is tangential in that no congruency may be seen. However, the progress through the archetypes has some of the characteristics of the progress through the densities. These relationships may be viewed without being, shall we say, pasted one upon the other.
Each archetypal influence, and a collection of archetypal influences are simultaneously both fractals and holons. The archetypal influences are consecutive in form, but do not progress. So when we compare a human developmental line to the progress through the archetypes, it would be a mistake to say the person is "at" that archetypal "stage" - if only because, in many cases, a single archetype is meaningless without consideration of its relationship to another.

Nonetheless, because the archetypes are both a resource for development (will) and dictate the process of evolution itself (faith), when considering the relationship between archetype and evolutionary stage, a pattern may be revealed which can suggest a developmental or operational role of one or more of them.
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04-11-2009, 01:38 PM,
#13
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-10-2009, 11:34 AM)zenmaster Wrote:  Nonetheless, because the archetypes are both a resource for development (will) and dictate the process of evolution itself (faith), when considering the relationship between archetype and evolutionary stage, a pattern may be revealed which can suggest a developmental or operational role of one or more of them.

You have unequivocally captured my interest in your last several postings with respect to Ken Wilber vis-a-vis his definitions and descriptors to spiral dynamics, pre-trans fallacies, and holons as related to fractals zenmaster.

1. Please do take a moment, if I may invite you, to elucidate more to your last paragraph above.



Quantum Wrote:Thank you for a 2nd time (i.e. zenmaster). It seems very congruent indeed, and almost a heeding of sorts as a means of avoiding the trappings and pitfalls of what I have come to name "Metaphizzler Consciousness" which may do no more harm than simple daydreaming without substance of a better world, to an outright arrested spiritual development.
zenmaster Wrote:Each developmental level may have both healthy (supportive) and pathological (destructive) manifestations. For example, "Metaphizzler Consciousness" and shortcut thinking are pathological conditions associated with the "Green vMeme" level of the Spiral Dynamics model. It's as if one meets a part of themselves there, for the first time, and gets "stuck" in a kind of trap. So there is slowed progress towards that jump to "2nd tier" thinking or feeling. As Ra said: "In order for the Transformation of Mind to occur, one principle governing the use of the deep mind must be abandoned."

Have you considered this:
subdensity - SD vMeme - Logos Archetype - Mind - Body - Sprit
1 - Beige - Matrix - Magician - Justice - Devil
2 - Purple - Potentiator - Priestess - Hermit - Tower
3 - Red - Catalyst - Empress - Wheel - Star
4 - Blue - Experience - Emporor - Strength - Moon
5 - Orange - Significator - Heiorphant - Hanged Man - Sun
6 - Green - Transformation - Lovers - Death - Judgement
7 - Yellow - Great Way - Chariot - Temperance - World

2. If you would further elaborate on how one might describe the Magician at the Beige level given that the Magician may be seen as the culmination, the Rosetta Stone or Touch Stone if you will, and thus removed if not transcendent to "the level of basic survival; food, water, warmth, sex, and safety as priority. Uses habits and instincts just to survive. Distinct self is barely awakened or sustained. Forms into survival bands to perpetuate life."

Perhaps I am seeing my descriptor of the Magician in a too regimented or structured form as intended by yours?



Q
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04-17-2009, 12:36 AM,
#14
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-11-2009, 01:38 PM)Quantum Wrote:  
(04-10-2009, 11:34 AM)zenmaster Wrote:  Nonetheless, because the archetypes are both a resource for development (will) and dictate the process of evolution itself (faith), when considering the relationship between archetype and evolutionary stage, a pattern may be revealed which can suggest a developmental or operational role of one or more of them.
1. Please do take a moment, if I may invite you, to elucidate more to your last paragraph above.
Not sure how to begin with an elucidation.


Quantum Wrote:2. If you would further elaborate on how one might describe the Magician at the Beige level given that the Magician may be seen as the culmination, the Rosetta Stone or Touch Stone if you will, and thus removed if not transcendent to "the level of basic survival; food, water, warmth, sex, and safety as priority. Uses habits and instincts just to survive. Distinct self is barely awakened or sustained. Forms into survival bands to perpetuate life."

Perhaps I am seeing my descriptor of the Magician in a too regimented or structured form as intended by yours?
If one was centered in Beige valuing, then any transcendence would be difficult to recognize as that person is drawing upon very basic ideas. Yet might the same actuator that manifests as foraging behavior at Beige, be seen as some type of analogous outreaching at more complex stages? First physical needs are addressed, then on to subtler needs.

Remember, Spiral Dynamics vMemes are recognized, distinct groups of core values. The evolution of core values follows from one or more other evolutionary lines, such as what Piaget identified with his cognitive schemas. Whereas the archetypes are a template for any form of evolution (such as complexity in cognition), not just what we can identify as collections of core values.

For example, "Experience" of mind IS (superficially) that which is experiential. It is that which we associate, on one level, with the mind and memory. On another level, it is that which comes from the development of mind and memory - perhaps epitomized by an authority figure - hence the Emperor. Obviously, experience, memory and authority are NOT the archetype (and nothing we can identify and point out can be an archetype), but are merely conveniently identifiable characteristics that point in the general direction of an influence.
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04-17-2009, 12:10 PM,
#15
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-17-2009, 12:36 AM)zenmaster Wrote:  Nonetheless, because the archetypes are both a resource for development (will) and dictate the process of evolution itself (faith), when considering the relationship between archetype and evolutionary stage, a pattern may be revealed which can suggest a developmental or operational role of one or more of them.
Quantum Wrote:Please do take a moment, if I may invite you, to elucidate more to your last paragraph above.
zemnaster Wrote:Not sure how to begin with an elucidation.
How do you define resource for development to mean will vs process of evolution to mean faith?
Quantum Wrote:If you would further elaborate on how one might describe the Magician at the Beige level given that the Magician may be seen as the culmination, the Rosetta Stone or Touch Stone if you will, and thus removed if not transcendent to "the level of basic survival; food, water, warmth, sex, and safety as priority. Uses habits and instincts just to survive. Distinct self is barely awakened or sustained. Forms into survival bands to perpetuate life."
zemmaster Wrote:If one was centered in Beige valuing, then any transcendence would be difficult to recognize as that person is drawing upon very basic ideas. Yet might the same actuator that manifests as foraging behavior at Beige, be seen as some type of analogous outreaching at more complex stages? First physical needs are addressed, then on to subtler needs.
Remember, Spiral Dynamics vMemes are recognized, distinct groups of core values. The evolution of core values follows from one or more other evolutionary lines, such as what Piaget identified with his cognitive schemas. Whereas the archetypes are a template for any form of evolution (such as complexity in cognition), not just what we can identify as collections of core values.
I take it then that you are in a sense suggesting that the Magician may be seen as though on "every level", i.e., be it beige, green, yellow, or etc, and not as I understood you to originally mean that the Magician was analogous to being relegated 'specifically at the Beige level, or only at that level for the purpose of your illustration?

If I am closer to your meaning or definition, then is not every other representative archetype also at every single other represented level in kind as well? If this is so, then the distinction of naming or representing the archetype at all to a corresponding color is confusing for me in as much as I have difficulty then in the original representation offered?

Am I lost, being pedantic, or obtuse to your original consideration...or perhaps all three (lol)?
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04-17-2009, 07:45 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-17-2009, 07:48 PM by zenmaster.)
#16
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-17-2009, 12:10 PM)Quantum Wrote:  How do you define resource for development to mean will vs process of evolution to mean faith?
Development requires "will", i.e. free-will choice. The manner in which the process of evolution is dictated, i.e. the blueprint provided by the logos, requires "faith".


(04-17-2009, 12:10 PM)Quantum Wrote:  I take it then that you are in a sense suggesting that the Magician may be seen as though on "every level", i.e., be it beige, green, yellow, or etc, and not as I understood you to originally mean that the Magician was analogous to being relegated 'specifically at the Beige level, or only at that level for the purpose of your illustration?
Yes, that is my understanding - it is an influence that may first be seen through Beige valuing.

(04-17-2009, 12:10 PM)Quantum Wrote:  If I am closer to your meaning or definition, then is not every other representative archetype also at every single other represented level in kind as well? If this is so, then the distinction of naming or representing the archetype at all to a corresponding color is confusing for me in as much as I have difficulty then in the original representation offered?
The correspondence I see is one where the archetype first takes hold, as it were, and becomes fully available. On one level, the archetype could be seen as a motif of the meme.

(04-17-2009, 12:10 PM)Quantum Wrote:  Am I lost, being pedantic, or obtuse to your original consideration...or perhaps all three (lol)?
No worries about any of that. There are many possible directions, and I just needed more specific questions.
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04-17-2009, 08:29 PM,
#17
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-17-2009, 07:45 PM)zenmaster Wrote:  The correspondence I see is one where the archetype first takes hold, as it were, and becomes fully available. On one level, the archetype could be seen as a motif of the meme.

Most interesting. I will offer a contradiction in thought and then answer my own question for your validation:
a) I may then surmise that the Magician at the Yellow level is the Magician I assumed to be the culmnation touch stone, i.e., the man at/in completion.

b) What I have been shown by your explanation is most intriguing and one quite frankly I had never taken into account, even as elementary as it now seems. The Magician is not more critical, more important, or sit at the top of a hierarchy of archetypes, if you will, any more than any other archetype to one's development. An archetype is simply and merely a representation. It is neither factual, nor embodied, nor existent. As such:
-- One position is no higher than is another
-- All positions are necessary to the whole

Removing the hierarchy from my own equation, in the prior assumption as though one archetype were more developed, higher, or more evolved, is where what is elementary should have been so all along. All representative color levels of one's developmental consciousness, as much as a societies developmental consciousness, as much as the worlds, has these archetypes operating at the level of the development cycle, so to speak. This being so, the primitive is as much the Magician as is the uberman (developed man), even if the uberman is more integrated into what I felt is more the Magician as a definition.

In this context the Magician has more than one definition, this depending upon the context this word (magician) is utilized in. Both assumptions are thus true.

Q
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04-17-2009, 11:49 PM,
#18
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
Expanding upon this ending thought, might one further surmise under this premise that the archetypes extend themselves beyond the individualized portion of consciousness (being an entity), but also then to a tribe, a society, a culture, a country, and even the world itself?

I am not sure this has ever been considered or addressed in any of the literature I've come across, given that archetypes are primarily referenced in terms of the individual, but it seems it would stand to reason.

Meandering musings at midnight,


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04-18-2009, 12:40 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-18-2009, 01:09 AM by zenmaster.)
#19
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
(04-17-2009, 08:29 PM)Quantum Wrote:  Most interesting. I will offer a contradiction in thought and then answer my own question for your validation:
a) I may then surmise that the Magician at the Yellow level is the Magician I assumed to be the culmnation touch stone, i.e., the man at/in completion.
That is the way I interpret it. Although, due to the numerous developmental lines, one is not really "at" a vMeme level all the time, so much as having a certain "center of gravity" that may be identified with that level's attributes.

(04-17-2009, 08:29 PM)Quantum Wrote:  b) What I have been shown by your explanation is most intriguing and one quite frankly I had never taken into account, even as elementary as it now seems. The Magician is not more critical, more important, or sit at the top of a hierarchy of archetypes, if you will, any more than any other archetype to one's development. An archetype is simply and merely a representation.
The term "archetype", as used in the Ra material, seems to be the same as that implied by Jung.

(04-17-2009, 08:29 PM)Quantum Wrote:  It is neither factual, nor embodied, nor existent. As such:
-- One position is no higher than is another
-- All positions are necessary to the whole
Also depends what is meant by "higher". Obviously the positions themselves (as we see in the Tarot) are not arbitrary, which is intriguing in itself.

(04-17-2009, 08:29 PM)Quantum Wrote:  Removing the hierarchy from my own equation, in the prior assumption as though one archetype were more developed, higher, or more evolved, is where what is elementary should have been so all along. All representative color levels of one's developmental consciousness, as much as a societies developmental consciousness, as much as the worlds, has these archetypes operating at the level of the development cycle, so to speak. This being so, the primitive is as much the Magician as is the uberman (developed man), even if the uberman is more integrated into what I felt is more the Magician as a definition.

In this context the Magician has more than one definition, this depending upon the context this word (magician) is utilized in. Both assumptions are thus true.
This is the way I tend to see it as well. From Ra: "The Matrix of the Mind is that from which all comes. It is unmoving yet is the activator in potentiation of all mind activity." And "Mind activity" does evolve along with an individual.
(04-17-2009, 11:49 PM)Quantum Wrote:  Expanding upon this ending thought, might one further surmise under this premise that the archetypes extend themselves beyond the individualized portion of consciousness (being an entity), but also then to a tribe, a society, a culture, a country, and even the world itself?
Yes, the archetypes are provided by the Logos hierarchy. The local Logos for our solar system is the source that has a major influence on what we've identified in the tarot cards. The Logos "Operates" from the lowest level (density) to highest. For example, consider at 1st density space = body and time = mind.

(04-17-2009, 11:49 PM)Quantum Wrote:  I am not sure this has ever been considered or addressed in any of the literature I've come across, given that archetypes are primarily referenced in terms of the individual, but it seems it would stand to reason.
They are referenced in terms of the individual, because they become most obvious as discernable patterns when considered with respect to aspects of the human condition (i.e. tarot). We are familiar with ourselves and can reflect on our subjective experience more readily and more meaningfully than with the more abstract behavior of a photon, for example.

Remember, archetypes are blueprints for the evolution of the entire creation. So in a sense, when we develop "laws of physics", we are describing some archetypal qualities. I guess that explanation would be more along the lines of what the panpsychists are intuiting.
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05-13-2009, 03:44 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-13-2009, 03:47 AM by irpsit.)
#20
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
Quantum, could you describe me please what are briefly the matrix, potentiator, catalyst, experience, significator, transformation and great way, as I haven't read yet the Ra book on this.

I know this may relate to the seven octaves of third density and , somewhat, to the tarot archetypes.

Perhaps, to the original question of this thread is the understanding from the 5 to 6th and 6 to 7th levels.
What happens here?
Which values, things in one person life?

Accordingly to the Ken Wilber's theory, one goes from deep sensititity and ecology, to one of interflow, interdependence between the different levels, and the cosmic order.
I can feel a correlation with my own life, but barely I can get an understanding at it.
For example, one basic question is: how would this manifest in society?
I understand from the Gandhi/Mandela examples, of pluralistic ideals for society, where human rights are together with economic, resource, spiritual, political, relationship, etc, values, from the whole levels. The work we do, is a blend and goes up and down the scale.


Thanks! Smile

Quote:Have you considered this:
subdensity - SD vMeme - Logos Archetype - Mind - Body - Sprit
1 - Beige - Matrix - Magician - Justice - Devil
2 - Purple - Potentiator - Priestess - Hermit - Tower
3 - Red - Catalyst - Empress - Wheel - Star
4 - Blue - Experience - Emporor - Strength - Moon
5 - Orange - Significator - Heiorphant - Hanged Man - Sun
6 - Green - Transformation - Lovers - Death - Judgement
7 - Yellow - Great Way - Chariot - Temperance - World
2012 is just a spiritual event... http://spiritual2012.blogspot.com




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09-27-2009, 11:02 PM,
#21
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
In pondering this thread I wondered in general "how does a person measure their density?" I considered other measurements, like body weight, body fat, emotional IQ, IQ, Enneagram, MRI, etc. and wonder if such an assessment would even be useful, say for measuring one's progress in some way or another.

In a way such self reflection reminds me of the myth of Narcissus who left Echo heartbroken. By contrast, it reminds me of the Mahayana Bodhisattvas who work to free others as priority over freeing themselves.


paddy
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09-28-2009, 05:05 AM,
#22
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
I believe we are now under a fifth, sixth or seventh octave of Earth third density.
The first octaves were probably our initial level of consciousness and awareness about 30.000 years ago.
The middle octaves were probably those around 3000 or 2000 years ago.
The middle higher octaves are probably those from our recent decades, due to the new interest in compassion, integration, harmony, ecology and spirituality.

But I think we are still due to come to the higher octaves of Earth 3D.
Maybe it takes several many decades to reach a seventh or eighth octave of 3D, as I have frequently said (the transition may be very gradual and long - the 100-700 year transition).
You can see more of what I have written on my blog www.spiritual2012.blogspot.com

How to measure? By the degree of spiritual awareness, connection between each other, intuition, etc.. I believe the physical changes will only come many centuries later
2012 is just a spiritual event... http://spiritual2012.blogspot.com




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09-29-2009, 02:35 AM,
#23
RE: Earth in 3D/7th Octave?
There seems to be a bridge from lower density to higher density within the body, where processes of biosynthesis convert more basic constituents into more complicated structures of organization. We drink water in a low density state and then assimilate it to a point where it becomes higher density in the form of our body.

So the larger things may be an indication of larger quantities of biosynthesis where such density conversion goes on. Larger quantities may not be an indication of higher degrees of density. At some point biosynthesis conversion may give way to other processes. For example, the Sun is very large and known for its high density, though the energetic conversion processes corresponding to the notion of density conversion may seem more quantum mechanics than biochemistry.

Between life as we understand it and the organism of the Sun may be other types of organizations corresponding to other density level processes. For example, people building psychic links to each other through shared writings may act as some sort of planetary skin that might be considered an organism of higher density than say just a solitary skin cell alone.

Such a social network organism may be considered a complex of sorts, and an attempt to participate in such a complex may be a chance to experience what higher density living might be like (as compared to just keeping to oneself.)

I mention the idea of planetary skin because this seems only one portion of the planetary whole, where other parts may be functioning on some hyper-dimensional level not commonly understood, and these parts may exist in some other density region with other density conversion processes at work.


paddy
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