Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
03-21-2009, 12:02 AM,
#1
Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
Hello. I am new here. I have not read much of the Ra material, though I have read some of the Cassiopaean transcripts. What I am interested in is how much this idea of mine goes along with the LOO stuff. I do not aim to misconstrue anything here.

I have come to understand that in the union of All that Is, 3rd density represents a lesson as well as anything else. After reading to the 3rd chapter of the Wanderer's Handbook, I began to construct an idea based on my personal experience. I feel as if many here are caught up in the STS/3rd density vs. STO/higher densities thing and have not yet seen the big picture.

Everything I am about to present on my idea is nearly hypothetical, which is why I am asking for other thoughts on it. I want to know if this is new and if and how it pertains to the LOO.

In page 72 of the Wanderer's Handbook, the Q'uo are quoted:

Quote:We do not see ourselves as being wiser than those within third density but merely in a somewhat different illusion, and, therefore, in some-
what different circumstances. Yet we, as you, seek to know and yet do
not know. We simply have come to hold fairly settled opinions, and, as
is the way of things spiritual, our truths move constantly into the
unknown, as do your own. Thusly, there is always the contradiction,
the tangle, the knot of attempting to understand that which can only be
embodied.

It seems to me from this that maybe many in the New Age movement are seeking too far into the higher centers and not spending enough time laying a solid but flexible groundwork in our own 3rd density illusion. I have always thought that the lessons of our present reality MUST be learned before trying to master higher ideals, or we have no solid foundation of Love.

The Q'uo might seem to agree (almost, maybe not entirely). I found this quote in another thread, taken out of the transcript of 2007_1124:

Quote:The first requirement for working with the gateway to intelligent infinity is that the heart be open. Consequently, although many seekers do not wish to continue to work intensively with the lower three chakras, it is our opinion that it is essential to continue to work with those three chakras, giving them all of the honor and respect that you give the higher chakras.

The entire quote is in this thread in post 3. http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=71

With this in mind, I will post something I sent to a friend. This explains very well the idea that I have constructed. I have set it as a quote to distinguish it from the rest of the text, but it was written by me.

Quote:I will tell you something that I hope is relatively new to you. I hope that I am not serving as a distraction.

>Inflated self-esteem is most often brought on by a self-willed amnesia of one's all-too-real faults and the consequences of them; low self-esteem is the bottom point of this cyclical mania, and is brought on by an unhealthy preoccupation with those same faults.

I don't believe it is very different than what you are saying but I don't think it is really this simple. I believe there are other factors that open up doors for a spiritual mastery of sorts. What you say is true for the most part but we must also consider the catalyst that moves one to struggle with the Ego. A balance between high and low self-esteem can be made, if one simply wants to live a balanced life. But to live in balance and without struggle is to not grow, as we must struggle with ourselves in order to grow.

I believe that anyone truly trying to move forward in "goodness" will certainly run into the Ego. The point is not to keep from struggling with it, but to test it, learn about it, and learn how to take it apart and put it back together to perform a more productive task. If you seek to not have problems with it, you effectively stop your spiritual growth. Anyone growing will struggle. It can be said that struggle is growth. So while the struggle might cause artefacts that affect the outside world in an "negatively-perceived" way, our struggles tend to count as an investment toward harmony within our environment, where when we can function flawlessly at a material level, we can also do so spiritually.

The ego is the cause of everything that is perceived as pain. We trick ourselves into believing in our own illusion of "pain" because it gives us an excuse to live a relatively painless life. Everyone who is trying to live painlessly in a spiritual way is actually still living within the illusion of their ego. When one loses the Ego, they lose pain. All is put towards a spiritual purpose and pain serves to point out one's weaknesses - a blessing that the Ego disguises.

And now we have the concept of STS vs. STO.

STS=Service to Self
STO=Servivce to Others.

A very easy way to wrap up two concepts. These two acronyms represent a decent body of information relating to the Ego vs. the higher good.

The most recognizable characteristic of an STS orientation is wishful thinking. Wishful thinking is always selfish and represents an unwillingness to "be happy" or work with what one has. STS is dominated by the Ego. Much can be learned by watching one's "wishful thoughts".

STO is a selfless form of serving others, although one cannot be sincerely selfless since all is part of creation and thus we do justly have ourselves to worry about sometimes. When one is of the STO orientation, their actions are controlled by wills rather than desires, and everything is put toward a spiritual purpose.

Anyone can be truly STO if they desire, and this "bumps them up" a level. However, without the 3D and material knowledge, there isn't much you can do. Your actions are limited by your material base because at the higher spiritual levels one is not allowed to contradict Self or act selfishly. Thus, we have two ways we can achieve "spirituality" - we can choose to be that way instantly (which is almost never done), or we can build our material base up with comprehension until it naturally takes us to the higher level. While we are at the higher level, we will always feel as if we are "outside a bubble, looking in", unless we have built our material base up well enough that we can identify with the material reality as a union with the spiritual one. All is truly connected, and in order to break the illusions of separation, we have to learn and act upon the knowledge that all is equal as far as God is concerned. One large difference between the spiritual worlds and the material one is that they are simply different illusions. One can teach the other how to move into a different illusion of reality, but one must come to understand themselves how it is all simply part of creation.

To add some understanding that may be lacking in the above, In order to operate above 3rd density, one must go through the filter of the 3rd density mind. The 3rd density concept of reality must allow for the possibility of the higher realities or one is contradicting themselves. So our 3rd density minds must not hold any opinions or non-truths that will constrict our channel to the higher realities, if we are to experience those realities completely.

I truly hope that there is understanding to be gained from this and that I have not posted something unmeaningful.

- Memorandem
You are you
I am me
We are we;
That makes three
When someone is hurt,
We all feel pain
To learn this is key
to playing the game
Poem by my bro, edited by me.
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03-21-2009, 05:08 AM,
#2
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
Welcome, my friend. I am very grateful to you for posting and it is highly beautiful!

This "STS/STO thing" is not very important if you chose it not to be, for it is merely another intellectual concept and one cannot help to do what you are here to do in the end. As the STO wanderer incarnates and awakes, they truly feel it is fundamentally right to help others. Same with STS in reverse. There are naturally those that switch polarities, like me.

I will share with you two Q'uo quotes that might be meaningful on your spiritual path and relevant to our discussion.

Q'uo Wrote:As wanderers you came for two reasons: to serve and to be tested. If
there is comfort in knowing that the path that is in front of each now is
the appropriate, destined path designed by yourself, then please take
comfort in that. There is always, in the illusion, the feeling that to be
without the heavy body and heavy experiences of third density would
be greatly desired. Yet, as soon as the incarnation is naturally over, the
seeking spirit gazes backwards and thinks, “Why did I not learn more?
What a great opportunity!”

Q'uo Wrote:May each wanderer find comfort in the knowledge that it cannot help
contributing positively to the planetary vibration. Even with what
seems to be gross mismanagement of time and energy, yet still in that
very basic alienated mindset there dwells that vibration which is fuller
with light. This very alienation is simply a surface symptom of a deep
and spiritual gift. Comfort yourself when the heart is heavy and the
feelings bruised with the knowledge that you are being of service. You
are doing that which you came to do. You may find ways to do it better,
but you are not failing no matter what it seems like.

As for more definite changes between 3D and 4D, no, there are not all that many in the intellectual view. But the veil is gone, death is of little effect.

There is clarity of the original thought:
Iasos - "Comparing 3rd and 4th Density Relationships"

Simply, it's a life where things are more 'definite', if one could word it so.
In this density, all ends up in paradoxes, and as such there is a true Free Will to be perceived. In many ways, 3D is a highly preferable existence for learning. This is one reason STS entities come, but also of course to serve creation, in their own way. Here everything can be denied and constructed without any limits. Naturally, this can be done in higher as it's only another part of infinity as every finite point contains the infinite in our Fractal reality, but one is born here without any real inherit memories.
A blank paper.
Higher up it seems very hard to deny the love of creation.

I may be very alike to you. I wish foundation before I can begin to dwell in the more complex distortions and creations that intelligent infinity has manifested. The sole thing that I seek now is understanding of Love in every moment.
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03-21-2009, 07:21 AM,
#3
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
Hello. I notice that the figure in your avatar becomes a rectangular pyramid when folded. I find that this demonstrates the concept of encoding, by which a higher-dimensional thing can be represented on a lower plane. The trick is that as viewers we must have the same experience as the one who encoded, in order to reconstruct the original thought.

I thank you for your reply. As for differences or similarities between us, I cannot through what text you provided understand your meaning (referring to your last paragraph). What I can say is that I had such very strong desires to understand truth in my beginning this incarnation that I have made two very strong commitments. The first, was a commitment to reason. This commitment was me saying "no matter what, everything I will ever do will make sense to me, and will have a purpose". This gives me the freedom to do anything I want (because I WANT to do it and I know WHY), and is necessary groundwork. I did not feel it very strongly. But I chose to do it this way, and I summoned up all my will in order to make this commitment. Without this commitment I would be lost. The second commitment is what I call the commitment to Infinity. It is not easy to sum up in words. In my mind at that time it had nothing to do with love. I am still not sure as of yet exactly what love is - which is why I refrain from using the word when I could use other words and be able to pack more meaning into my sentence. If there was truly love in what I was explaining in the first place, the meaning should not be harmed by picking different words as long as the original thought is unchanged. The commitment to infinity allows me to violate Self, Soul and Reality in any ways I desire. Total freedom. It may seem as if this is dangerous or uncalled for but I found it was necessary in order to absorb the knowledge I was needing and still need. The commitment to Infinity brings me closer, not farther, from God, as I have chosen to come closer rather than use my commitment to go away. True freedom is true spirituality, which means you cannot limit yourself. You must give yourself the freedom to do whatever you please. This is what I believe. From this information you should be able to deduce whether we are similar or not. Or perhaps you don't need to - as we are all God, and as such are similar but varied in all aspects.

One thing I feel separates me from most wanderers is that I feel I have the ability to absorb information straight out of the cosmos (although most wanderers incarnate with innate knowledge of that which they desire to learn) - which is the only explanation I have for the relative ease for which I have learned some things. Unique concepts pop into my mind. I do not understand it yet. Or perhaps I once fell from multidimensionality but am now able to re-learn my previous ascension through memory. But I feel there is this man standing at a gate inside my mind - and the gate is my memory. I have not learned how to control the gate yet, and certainly don't know why the man is there in the first place. Something reminds me of things I have learned about hypnosis. Perhaps I have been brainwashed. Maybe I can make him explode into a million tiny pieces if I try hard enough and claim the gate to my own memory. That may not seem a very loving thought but if we cannot define all of reality as love, then the concept of love becomes very subjective and subject to faulty opinions.

Anyways, you can consider this me chatting, as it is not entirely on-topic. The warm mood here encourages me to do so. I am sure there are others who have something interesting to say about the topic. It wasn't easy for me to put it all together, so the topic title might not match the actual topic very well. Oh well, it seems the point has not been missed yet.

Good day to you.
- memorandem
You are you
I am me
We are we;
That makes three
When someone is hurt,
We all feel pain
To learn this is key
to playing the game
Poem by my bro, edited by me.
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03-21-2009, 08:22 AM,
#4
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
There are no mistakes my friend in an infinite universe, and so all ways of conversation is meaningful. There is no wrong path, and your understanding is equal to Ra's, Quo's, mine, for we are all One.
Very perceptive regarding my avatar. You are a highly interesting individual. I must admit thought, I can not understand the boundaries you have set for this thread, if there is any. But I try my best to radiate my distorted understanding of love towards you.

Here in 3D we live both in a reality we share and a perfectly individualised part, the one that breeds Free Will. They both intervene, as the subjective interpretation of the shared can vary in infinity. The paradoxes are always close, permeating, even in the concept of reality.
So imagine a completely new shared reality. This can be 4D, with new initial rules that can be bent. But the archetypical thought of the Creator can be felt anywhere, so there is not much difference to that place, in the end. This was my point, I believe.
Currently, I find little knowledge gained in exploring paradoxes, but all parts contains the infinite still. STS and STO contains paradoxes also, where Service to Others is inherently selfish because you serve yourself in the end, and STS is a sacrifice for others. They are all distortions of the original thought.

You may have brainwashed yourself when you chose to incarnate here, the veil is strong. I also have a man standing before my gate, but he cannot fully hide it's light with his form. Some slips through. And this man is myself, and I try to forgive myself for doing it.

Peace and harmony, my dear friend.
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03-21-2009, 09:12 AM,
#5
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
All the time after and before this post I have been aware of a slightly nagging understanding. Some of my aim here is STS. I find the rank of "highly interesting individual" very good feeling, and I could not have brought myself to post here unless there was some of the STS desire for gratification. This happened on SOTT.net and I was banned... That was the beginning of a very great lesson which I am still learning - that of the Ego. Back then it was very bad and most of my post was dominated by my Ego. Now I feel that more of Soul is coming through, but there is still the knowledge that I have as of yet uncovered illusions, which I am working to bring into the light.

I posted this while being aware of my STS shadow, in the understanding that STO would result, even if the STS desire was key in its making. So I confess.

An inadvertent result of my gathering of knowledge has not only been understanding of how to serve, but also how to manipulate. These to sides of myself have both surfaced here in which I manipulated in order to receive a desired response, but that I also shared information which I considered very, very valuable.

I feel like the madman in the corner mumbling to himself. But I also know that there is light in what I have done. The good with the bad.

But I thought I read somewhere that 6th density was neutral concerning STS and STO. Maybe I am going in the right direction if I don't discriminate too emotionally between manipulation and service.

I feel like a Tai Chi, or a coin with two sides. I feel as if the coin is spinning and no side is dominating and that everyone is just watching the battle rage on.

This is a weird place to be. But I think I can turn it into an enlightening thing.

I hope I am not too interesting.
- Memorandem
You are you
I am me
We are we;
That makes three
When someone is hurt,
We all feel pain
To learn this is key
to playing the game
Poem by my bro, edited by me.
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03-21-2009, 10:23 AM,
#6
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
Please excuse my blunderances.

I have certainly made myself out to be a "highly interesting individual" as I have acted like a madman and nutcase.

It has become apparent to me that I am on the brink right now. I am not even sure the thoughts I'm thinking are mine. The vein of thought that inspired my last post I think may have been sent my way by the loyal opposition. I think I may be very vulnerable to this sort of thing. Sad

I am still capable of thinking sanely, even if it does not seem like it. The original thought that started this thread is clear enough in my mind that I can resume speaking on the original topic with no detrimental effects.

I am still, and have always been, ME. That has obviously not changed, even if the lines have blurred for a second.

I hope I have not squashed any possibility of further coherent discussion. Sorry. O_O

- Memorandem
You are you
I am me
We are we;
That makes three
When someone is hurt,
We all feel pain
To learn this is key
to playing the game
Poem by my bro, edited by me.
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03-21-2009, 01:31 PM,
#7
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
I find remembrance in your words Memorandem. I have been on your path, and I sometimes too felt regret of my words. Please again find comfort in that there are no mistakes, my friend, and that I embrace all of you whomever you are or think you are.
To contradict oneself is not bad in my eyes, it's a great way to grow. You have nothing to be sorry about. Who is anyone to deem your subjective experience and intepretation of the infinite less meaningful/good/relevant? We are all equal.

I extend this digital love to you.

[Image: binary_heart.jpg]

Peace and harmony to you, my dear friend.

You might be very close to the gateway to intelligent infinity, and there is infinite information running through you. It could be wise to set up some boundaries in the form of prayer, meditation and conscious intent.
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03-21-2009, 06:02 PM,
#8
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
Thank you for your simple answer. When someone's inner struggles reach the keyboard, it can seem to readers as if it is some deadbeat who doesn't deserve a computer.

I have messed with barriers, once, when I was using Keylontics. I used the Maharic Seal before and after sleep and the Astral Body Seal before sleep. It worked well and helped me in my desired direction until a period where I began experiencing problems. I chose to stop because I felt that "the ritual was constricting my channel". To this day I am not sure exactly what merit the Keylontics techniques have, if any, so I don't pretend to believe in something I don't understand. I would qualify as one of the very few that have experienced negative effects (what I perceive as negative) as a result of the Freedom Teachings material.

I feel that my path is naturally leading to become a channel. Last night I stared into a mirror for 30 minutes and saw nothing.

- Memorandem
You are you
I am me
We are we;
That makes three
When someone is hurt,
We all feel pain
To learn this is key
to playing the game
Poem by my bro, edited by me.
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03-23-2009, 09:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-23-2009, 09:05 PM by ubergud.)
#9
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
Hi Memorandem,

I find resonance (and remembrance in my own past) in terms of the commitments made to yourself in order to find freedom. For me the origin of this line of thought or 'reasoning' started as a feeling of necessity in order to minimize the confusion of the 'insanity' as Ra (and/or Quo have termed it in quotes themselves in transcribed sessions) of this world. And by that, I mean the inability to comprehend 'separation', i.e. all answers from those questioned should be 'truthful', because why should anyone (i.e. parents, 'authority figures', et. al.) lie? [I suppose cultural naivete would be the translation here]. Then as more and more 'truths' became known, it seemed to me that a box of some sort was required in order to maintain the truth. That is, in order to maintain a stated 'truth', some other belief (usually unstated, and not necessarily consciously considered) was required. Also, half-truths and intentional half-truths (i.e. sarcasm, or 'layered' messages) were discovered. But remembering before that, it seemed that when seeking truth, in order to get out of the morass of half-truth (i.e. to simplify for order), it required either attempting to 'reboot one's belief system' or systematically organizing one's own knowledge and experience to help assist in the discernment between 'truth' and 'non-truth'. However, much of this is eased by realizing that one is in an illusion, and 'truth' in an illusion is also an illusion.

This is where I humbly disagree (with ayadew) in the value in researching paradox. As at least for my part, the topics where paradoxes were discovered became gateways to realizing the illusion. Footholds, even, which bolstered my confidence in in going against (or not being restricted by) the 'established' ideas of what is 'true' and 'known'. Paradoxically (ha), this process has been frustrating to my intellect, while uplifting to my spirit. I use quotes around true and known, as I believe these change (at least within the 3rd density illusion) along with our beliefs, similar to having a new perspective which sheds new light on something that would otherwise be 'believed-to-be-known-or-understood-entirely', and gives us cause to reconsider. So the more we consider (or believe) the world around us as 'mundane' and 'known' or 'understood', the more we seem to find comfort and 'grounding'. Here is where I as a seeker find endless passion (frustration, joy, sorrow, hope, despair, determination, curiosity ...), as I never find myself able to rest in the comfort or grounding of 'knowing'.

Basically, or me, when I realized that no one has 'the answer', they can have no authority over me except that which I give to them by believing they do. I started looking for someone to give me the answer, but instead found paradox and illusion, which paradoxically gave me the freedom I sought by seeking 'the answer' to begin with. It is as though life is a constant tearing down and rebuilding of our beliefs, where the 'our beliefs' is part of the paradox, as we are all one but do not seem to all see the same thing in the same way or from the same perspective ('higher'-'lower') at the same 'time' -- perhaps due to our belief in 'time' [and space].

As a result of the above thought process, is then perhaps our purpose as entities to collect the unbiased (i.e. free will, veiled) perspective through experience (in the greatest sense -- i.e. including all forms and manner of existence) of evolution (i.e. within time and space) as service to the creator attempting to know itself (within infinity)?

As to your struggles trying to relate metaphysical experience or information in a forum in a way that seems clear (to both you and readers), how can you be alone there? Even the information provided by Ra/Quo/etc. which comes outside the bounds of space and time, is paradoxically as clear as everything I have ever read in some moments, and at the same time when pondered over in the context of the 'everyday reality' sometimes as opaque and obscure as mud. As to the specific experiences of a gatekeeper (of the gateway to intelligent infinity), I cannot speak, I have had metaphysical experiences during meditation but nothing with a persona (i.e. 'higher self') as yet.

Peace and Joy as you desire it along your path wherever it leads,

Jason
(03-21-2009, 01:31 PM)ayadew Wrote:  I extend this digital love to you.

Love, boolean style ... I like it. Tongue
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03-23-2009, 10:03 PM,
#10
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
Hello and thank you for the reply.

Working through the paradoxes can be just as confusing as the methods by which people deal with them or their beliefs concerning them. When so much confusion is to be had, the only reason for us to disagree is if we all hold different parts of the puzzle. Then again, our personal truths can be different.

I wrote this again in reply to the same friend, and I thought it is somewhat fitting to what has been said here. Even if you have learned these lessons already, review cannot be harmful.

Quote:I put knowing what you want at strong importance at and sometimes above the ability to discern because this knowledge gives us the measure by which to decide. Even if we get caught up in a game along the way or happen to travel down another path, we can eventually identify our mistake if see that our situation wanders from what we envisioned in the first place. Although our initial "vision" tends to go through refinement, one is always headed in roughly the same direction.

I suppose what this means, is that no one needs "advice", to say, though it helps, as we all get the information we need that is relative to our path whether or not we probe other humans. The information comes in not only from sentient sources.

I have been in seclusion for some time. I never talk to anyone except online, as only online do I find people who have worthy things to talk about (usually, though there are exceptions). Apart from that, if someone asks me "why do you never talk to anyone?", I simply reply "I just don't feel the need".

So perhaps this provides insight into my character.

- Memorandem
You are you
I am me
We are we;
That makes three
When someone is hurt,
We all feel pain
To learn this is key
to playing the game
Poem by my bro, edited by me.
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04-03-2009, 12:16 AM,
#11
Big Grin  RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
I don't know much of the full terms, and I don't know much in general. But my feeling is that we are here on earth for a reason. In higher planes(densities, whatever you would prefer to call it) We know the creator intimately, we know what love is, and denying it there isn't something we would do. Here on Earth, we have the ability to deny this love, to deny the principals that the universe runs on. By starting off with no memories of past lives, or any of that, we in essence are seeing that given the chance, well we still choose love? Well we still try to find the principles of universal law, and understand oneness?

I think that coming to earth, we choose our lives, and the circumstances that we best feel will help us reach this stage of enlightenment that way when death comes, and our spirit moves on we can say "Yes, I have chosen love, I have shown Love" and even not knowing, for I believe we cannot know right now 100 percent everything, that we still walked the path that we all will walk now or later.

As a wanderer, I feel like we are adventurers who not only serve the creator, for everything serves the creator( both what we would define as good, and bad) but as souls who have chosen to leave the comfort of high dimensions and come to Earth to grow and learn even more. To re-make that choice, to serve others and ourselves as well. For we are each creators in our own right, and we each hold the universe within us :-D

I'm sorry if I used we when I was talking. But that's how I feel at least. I'm trying not to get to hung up in the words, and lingo, and just live life. Everyday, I try to make a difference, through a smile, or whatever. But we are here on earth to live, grow and learn.

Just trust in yourself, the creator, the universe, everything and it will be alright. Maybe not now, or a 100 years from now, but nothing stays the same and I believe we are all creation experiencing itself in a infinity amount of ways.

For no one entity is the same, yet we are all bound together.

Hope that makes sense :-D
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09-27-2009, 02:22 AM,
#12
RE: Is the difference between 3rd density and beyond so profound?
Quote:...I have been in seclusion for some time. I never talk to anyone except online, as only online do I find people who have worthy things to talk about (usually, though there are exceptions). Apart from that, if someone asks me "why do you never talk to anyone?", I simply reply "I just don't feel the need"...

Some people find greater degrees of fulfillment in written expression, then say verbal expression. It may complement a rate of thinking that is a slower pace than conversation. Apparently the Ra spoken content was delivered at a slow rate of speed. Also related to the Ra materials, is the suggestion of "scribe" roles (as distinct from "channeling" roles). It wouldn't surprise me if there were Ra scribes out there somewhere.

It may be that some wanderers have hyper-sensitivity issues that can be managed well with some degree of seclusion. As hypersensitive, the need for grounding (which may relate to lower chakra work) may be important to sustaining a sense of balance without becoming overwhelmed. Possibly, such recognition can help a person ground more quickly in ways that allow the person to wean themselves from seclusion to interact more in ways helpful to themselves and others.


paddy
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