09-09-2011, 12:49 PM
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: i noticed that because you have not attended these recent 4 threads, you are reiterating all the discussion points we already have gone over. instead of referring you back to those threads, i will make a summary here and just point you to this post if the same points occur.
That's true, so thank you for the summary! I appreciate it. I assume you are referring to:
The Harvest > The Present Moment and Intuitive Perceptions of the Harvest - Part I
The Harvest > Quite interesting - Mayan day/nights and earth periods
Which other 2 are you referring to:
I see these which are of the same topic, and may offer insights:
The Harvest > 3D to 4D: Sudden or Gradual? A great read...(David Wilcock interview)
The Harvest > Post-harvest continuity of consciousness
The Harvest > Harvest as Salvation
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: - 'harvest is now' is moot, since Ra has mentioned that the negative entities that were already dead circa 1981 'could be harvestable'. not 'harvested'. if harvest was 'then', then they would say that they were in the process of being harvested, or harvested.
- there is no planetary harvest of any kind mentioned in the material. if you mean cyclic harvest as opposed to an individual contacting intelligent infinity within the cycle, there is nothing to be reconciled with these
- a direct answer to a direct question is a direct answer. when there were multiple levels in information, Ra always elaborated. or mentioned that there was more to that, but they could not elaborate. so, 2011 date is 2011 date as such.
- there isnt ambiguity in the term regarding harvest. it is well defined, even to its mechanism in time/space after death.
- Ra did not approximate our dates with their understanding of time. many times, Ra mentioned they were not part of time, therefore doing an estimate upon their perception would be totally irrelevant. in all cases in which this planet was involved, they used our estimates and periods. 2600 bc was not '5 quants before this eon', and 100-700 years time period estimate was not 5 manik and 7 larkin to 3 juan. it was in OUR years.
- we would be quite hung up on 2011, because the material we are studying explicitly gives that date, and some people who trust the material have problems with it. if they didnt have this much problem, we would really be not so hung up on this date.
This is a summary of your conclusions. That's ok. I don't expect you to summarize the conclusions of others, which you may disagree with. I'm just noting that these are your conclusions, and not necessarily irrefutable fact.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: i have given historical information, info about the traits of mayan/south american societies to the point of agricultural tendencies, connecting a lot of things together. if these are parlor tricks for you,
Historical info isn't a parlor trick. Being able to manifest something, such as a psychic healing, telekinesis, telepathy, etc. could be parlor tricks; ie. they seem dazzling to those unable to do such things, but don't necessarily mean anything about the polarity or intentions of the one doing the tricks.
As an example, I know of self-proclaimed gurus who've been able to enlist a following, because of their ability to demonstrate psychic phenomena. Their followers used the phenomena as 'proof' that the gurus were authentic, not realizing that negative entities can do the same thing.
That's what I mean by "parlor tricks." The Mayans' ability to calculate time far into the distance, alone isn't enough reason to trust them. It may just mean that they had that particular knowledge.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: i can come up with a lot of ridiculing adjectives for for a behavior that tries to interpret a direct answer to a direct question as a 'grand interpretation in metaphorical presentialization of multi-layered meaning denial'.
Well thank you for not doing that.
The point here is, that you have concluded that this "grand interpretation in metaphorical presentialization (?) of multi-layered meaning" ... is...denial.
However, not everyone agrees with your conclusion. There might be merit in this presentation. Just because it all makes perfect sense to you, and you are able to make clear conclusions, doesn't mean you're right and them wrong. It could be the opposite.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: then there would be no point to discussing.
There is no point in discussing, unless we are all open to setting our preconceived ideas and conclusions aside, to make room for new insights. It is possible that both sides of the debate are partially correct. There could be some denial going on - as on who doesn't like the idea of us all dying very soon, I readily admit that - or it could be something much greater than mere denial - it could be that those of us who don't like that idea, are creating a different reality. In which case, it isn't denial at all, but simply choice.
This is a proposition that you've indicated you disagree with, and that's ok. My point is simply that it's not a given that anyone who disagrees with your interpretation of that particular quote, is in "denial." There are other possible explanations.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote:Quote:No problem. I don't believe in cold hard truth.
yes. however it just doesnt go away with not believing in it, or declaring 'holographicness'.
I will rephrase: I believe in cold hard truth, but I don't believe that anyone's declaration of what they think is 'cold hard truth' is actually cold hard truth. Why? Because each person colors that truth with their own biases.
You tend to scoff at any mention of a holographic universe, yet this is a commonly accepted premise, for good reason, not the least of which is scientific support as well as experiential support.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: unity/oneness you speak about is not something that comes into practice before mid 6d. otherwise, there would be no wars, no 2d, no 3d, no 4d, no maldek explosion, no this, no that.
Perfect unity/oneness, sure. But it exists here too, just not in perfect manifestation.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: referrals to a future point in time does not change the properties that this density was created with.
and, in that density you cannot just 'influence other entities through oneness' to make them 'awaken and progress fast'.
there were a lot of attempts which wanted to do that, they even used technology, and you see what the result is.
I'm not referring to forcefully trying to awaken someone who isn't ready. I'm referring to providing gentle nudges, when the person IS ready for those nudges. I do it every day, and see the fruits of my labors. I see others doing it too. This is in the category of lightening the planetary vibrations just be being true to our nature. It is the nature of Wanderers to care about others, and show that caring. To not show caring, would be to not be true to our own natures. It so happens, that by showing that caring, we help nudge those who are ready to be nudged, just as Ra has answered our call and is providing a nudge in a different way, by their service. It's all service.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: no actually i can. ranging from how people in third world countries - which constitute majority of world population by the way - live, think, what they do, what are their choices in regard to politics and philosophies and religions, crime rate, traditions and many more factors, i can easily have a good picture of whats going on in the world.
No, you can't, because you cannot know the hearts, minds and souls of everyone on the planet. These things cannot be known by outer circumstances. I realize you don't consider the Q'uo channelings as authoritative, and I respect that, but for what it's worth, Q'uo has indicated that enough people on this planet have opened their hearts enough, so that the tipping point was reached and the planet is no longer susceptible to takeover by STS. Q'uo went on to explain that, despite outer circumstances appearing to the contrary, many souls are indeed harvestable. Souls that don't make the news. Only the extremes make the news, so we cannot judge by what we see on the news.
Leaving out Q'uo, an assessment cannot be made based on the news. There are many people just living normal, boring lives, whose hearts are opening, and there is no way to know about them because they aren't in the news. The vast majority of people aren't engaged in wars or criminal activity.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: you cannot have that picture by just looking at what goes on in your relevant circles in usa, and on internet however. just land in anywhere south or east of europe, and you will see little from that awakening of yours.
I work with a lot of people on a daily basis, all over the country and even some international, and have been for 20+ years. I've definitely noticed a shift, across the board. Not with everyone, but with many. True, my observation is subjective, but then so is yours. The fact is that neither of us can assess the hearts of others.
You are saying I cannot assess based on my interactions with real people, yet you are assessing based on what? Crime rates?
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: your 'affecting others' take the form of making them skip 3d lessons. making them 'awaken' and whatnot.
No, not at all. If someone isn't ready for whatever I have to offer, I leave them be.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: - "oh, i just want you to progress so much. look, here, i have this kind of vibration,i have this information and ....."
- "ok let me totally skip living an entire 3d, and just jump to 4d just because you got these stuff"
it doesnt happen.
You have misunderstood. No one is suggesting those things.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: i dismiss them as infringing. in the 'transition time' you speak about, the wanderers would already have infringed upon the very founding of the 4d on this planet.
And yet, we know from Ra that there will be a transition time, of 100-700 years. How do you reconcile that with your assertion that Wanderers must all leave? (You may have already addressed this in another thread, in which case directing me there would be appreciated.)
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: i did not make for any missing pieces. as an example, even though tenet asked how could the situation of the 3-4d entities after mass deaths be handled, i told that i didnt have an answer, and i reiterated that we shouldnt try to twist information we have to make up for what we dont.
please dont claim that i did things which i have not.
Perhaps the word twisted was too strong. I retract that word. How about colored? We all color our interpretation of Ra's words with our own biases. No one is immune to that.
As an example, an entity who is suffering from severe debilitation, or who is depressed or otherwise unhappy with life, may be anxious to leave this planet, and therefore may interpret Ra's words as a blessed relief, and actually look forward to death of the 3D vehicle. Whereas, an entity who is enjoying life, has young children to care for and a bright future ahead, and who loves the Earth and Sun, is likely to interpret Ra's words differently, to allow for the possibility of a transition time, in which at least some of the entities live out their lives.
One entity cannot say to the other, "If you don't see it my way you are in denial" because Ra's words are subject to interpretation. Even the 2011 quote is subject to interpretation, and even more so, when the quote about transition is taken into consideration. You continually insist that Ra's words are clear, and allow for only 1 'obvious' interpretation, and yet many of us disagree with you on this.
A different interpretation isn't necessarily "twisting."
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: the mistake is in trying to invalidate what we actually have complete, as incomplete because we cannot make up for the incomplete parts, or we dont like the complete ones. and this thing has been going on for 4 threads.
Yes, but the 2011 issue isn't "complete" because there are other quotes which must be factored in, as well as Ra's concept of time, etc. Despite your explanations to back up your view, many of us remained unconvinced of your viewpoint. NOT because we are stupid, haven't read the books, or are twisting the info, but because we simply disagree.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: i am not dead set on anything - no wait, actually there is something i am dead set on :
arguing against total rewriting or neglecting or denial of existing uncomfortable information or, heaven forbid, trying to invalidate 90% of the information through various made up means just to negate that piece of information - when we dont like it.
That is your conclusion about what is happening here. I don't see it that way. I see Icaro's ideas to be stimulating and worthy of further consideration. He might not be correct on all points, but there is enough here worth further investigation. If even the Bible can have multiple layers of meaning, how much more so would the Law of One? That's not a far-fetched idea at all, but makes perfect sense. So much so, that I'm stunned no one noticed it before!
To insist that such an deep body of work be limited to its face value only, is to potentially miss the gems contained therein.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: ok. then i reinterpret and propose that the 'i am Ra' sentence was prefixed to all of the questions by a negative entity. validate this. i can argue for 4 threads, defending that in the same fashion.
There's no reason to get absurd with this. It's not a black-and-white proposition. No one is suggesting that the ideas be taken to such absurd lengths. That doesn't mean there isn't value here though, in what is being suggested.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: icaro's isnt a theory. it is an attempt to negate a piece of information he doesnt like,
?? You state this as though fact. When, it is just your opinion. You cannot know for certain, what his reasons are, for postulating his theories.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: have you seen any case of a wanderer scenario in the material for any wanderer incarnating in a lower density than its own, into 4d, 5d, or 6d ?
no.
Irrelevant, because unless the question was directly asked, that info wasn't given.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: they are mutually exclusive. otherwise we wouldnt have laws of free will, veils, quarantines and so on. free will of entities in regard to choosing the influences upon them just do not end with 3d.
We're all ONE. We affect one another. It's not possible to not affect others. The quarantine, veil etc. are artificial mechanisms to limit the normal affecting of one another, for a specific reason. That reason is now passing.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: it is still infringing. it is learn/teaching on other entities' behalf. whatever vision 4d entities have, its their honor/duty to realize that vision. not interlopers which think that they should barge in.
No, not at all. It's simply being who we are, and letting our natural inclinations flow, to be accepted or not by others, as they wish.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: excuse me, im not making these up my a$$. in the process of validating the inclinations, you are promptly ignoring a lot of important information that is in the material you are studying, as i demonstrated above. ranging from free will to quarantine to no wanderer phenomenon in densities higher than 3d to learn/teaching with entities in HIGHER densities than 4d happening in sleep periods in 4d.
No, I'm not ignoring those things at all. I simply disagree with your conclusions about those things.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: one would think that the logos of this locale would tighten the veil and introduce various strong measures to prevent entities from so easily being contacted and influenced by even entities dwelling in higher densities than theirs, after the light veil experience in venus - oh wait - logos actually did that.
there must be a reason for that.
That was then. This is now. The situation has changed. Harvest is imminent.
(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: it cannot happen, due to mechanisms of free will. these wont change even when Ra passes away from this octave, or this octave ends.
entities which are yet not even born into a 4d planet which they dont even know that is going to be positive or negative, cannot call other entities pre-emptively to that planet.
?? How can you be so sure about that? There are many soul agreements.