Going to fourth density? Or fifth?

[Tenet Nosce]

As far as I'm aware, I haven't seen this discussed much in the forum...

What about all these sources now saying that the earth is headed to fifth density, rather than fourth? Simply different terminology? Did we "jump a timeline"? Or skip ahead? Have we unknowingly been in fourth density yet in some kind of 3D matrix program? All just a bunch of BS?

[Shemaya]

IMO, Different terminology mostly, along with a bunch of BS. Humans are great BSers.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it

[AnthroHeart]

I don't think the majority of earth beings could handle the intensity of 5D. Going into 4D is producing enough challenges and having to face ourselves. I can't imagine skipping a density or breezing right through it. It takes a long time to learn the lessons of love.

[godwide_void]

That's been confusing me as well, when some folk claim we're going to "the 5th dimension" from the 3rd dimension. In that case then one would just assume that the 4th dimension is either a transitory dimension we go through, or that it's a completely useless dimension and that's why we skip it, which is silly in any case.

I guess it's a case of different terminology then, and I'm more willing to take the word of a higher dimensional being describing this process than a human who doesn't know for sure. It makes alot more sense to go from 3rd density to 4th density than 3 to 5. Besides, I doubt there's a big neon etheric sign saying "WELCOME TO 4TH DENSITY" or someone on a loudspeaker shouting "WE ARE NOW ENTERING THE 4TH DENSITY". Regardless of what people choose to term it, the bottom line is that a transformation will be taking place, an ascension of being, an evolution of consciousness, graduation to the next level. Whatever words chosen to describe this process or whatever name is given has no real bearing on the process itself, just as reality will exist regardless of the name you give to it.

[Diana]

Usually they say dimension, not density. We live in 4 dimensions, time being the 4th. So, when people started to become aware of that, perhaps they changed our existence from 3rd to 4th dimension.

Just guessing.

[Unbound]

The graduation likely sees entities going to all densities, even if the Earth itself is going in to a phase in to 4D.

[Jim Kent +]

IMO, Different terminology mostly, along with a bunch of BS. Humans are great BSers.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it

I agree with Shemaya, with the addition that there are also higher-density BSers communicating with Humans!!!!!!

[Patrick]

It would fit my theory that we are a special case that has been in 3d for much longer than the "norm".

We may have learned 4d lessons and are ready to start balancing Compassion and Wisdom ?

[Bring4th_Austin]

I'd have a hard time believing that we, as a social memory complex, are ready for fifth density. According to Ra, graduation to fifth is judged by the entire complex and not just the individual. I mean...we haven't even formed a social memory complex. I agree with Shemaya...different terminology and a bunch of BS.

[Siren]

We may have learned 4d lessons and are ready to start balancing Compassion and Wisdom ?

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but no.

First it should be understood that this particular planetary sphere is being "spiraled" into a higher vibratory spectrum (4D) due to the clockwork mechanisms of the Universe itself. In other words, this particularly space/time nexus is being "upgraded" for its next experiential cycle.

Secondly, one should understand that any point during a cycle an entity can be harvested into the next. However, it is far more common for entities to graduate alongside the planetary sphere as the powerful influxes and waves of vibratory energy at the time of transition promote much catalyst, thus stimulating and facilitating the process of graduation. This is natural (and I believe it was also intended this way).

The next grade (4th), or act, so to speak, deals with Love itself, compassion, empathy (or, inversely, apathy, or malignant narcissism—or false Love, if you will—though none of these terms are exactly accurate).

Judging by this, we can see there will be a small harvest (positively-speaking, at least). In other words, the the majority of 3D entities upon this planet will not graduate. This is OK. Nothing is lost or wasted. There are no failures. Those mind/body/spirit complexes who cannot withstand, or adjust to, or assimilate these higher vibratory patterns wont be able to remain very long in a 4D-electromagnetized sphere. These will continue to be naturally recycled into a(nother) 3D environment until they learn the necessary lessons of 3rd grade and are ready to graduate themselves into the next experiential spectrum.

After 4th grade comes 5th grade, which is the vibratory spectrum/density of Wisdom/Light proper.

Neither 3D nor 4D is of Wisdom. Wisdom is characteristic of 5D entities (and by extent, 6D).

Listen to Bashar, he/they are 4D entities and you will get a good idea of how 4D (positive) is like. No doubt, in 4D one knows and understands infinitely more than in 3D, but the heart of the experience is in Love. And 4D, my friends, is full of folly (in a rather good way, if you will).

[drifting pages]

Bashar says 4th density and 4th dimension aren't the same, 4th density is actually "physically" the 5th dimension, or at least that is what i remember.

[Patrick]

Thank you Siren. Maybe I am a wanderer after all? Though I was told I was from Maldek and Mars and doing 3d for the first time.

[AnthroHeart]

It would fit my theory that we are a special case that has been in 3d for much longer than the "norm".

We may have learned 4d lessons and are ready to start balancing Compassion and Wisdom ?

Are you referring to time lateral?

---

I'd have a hard time believing that we, as a social memory complex, are ready for fifth density. According to Ra, graduation to fifth is judged by the entire complex and not just the individual. I mean...we haven't even formed a social memory complex. I agree with Shemaya...different terminology and a bunch of BS.

Agreed. From what I recall, graduation to fifth requires understanding the Law of One. Isn't 4th a density of understanding as well?

---

Wow, just heard a christian song that says "I am weak but thou are strong." If people only knew they are Creator, might not be giving their power away.

[Ankh]

Usually they say dimension, not density. We live in 4 dimensions, time being the 4th. So, when people started to become aware of that, perhaps they changed our existence from 3rd to 4th dimension.

Just guessing.

I agree with you. I don't put much attention to when "New Age" folks talk about going into fifth dimension, because I translate it to Ra's terminology of being the fourth density in my mind. These folks usually mean that we are in fourth dimension now, where time is being the fourth. (I guess they didn't read Dewey Larson's theories, huh? )

[Ashim]

The original 'story' was for a split in 4th density. A negative world and a positive one.
Remember that even higher beings are 'sold' myths. This is for the very purpose of soul growth.
Lucifers planet, Maldek , on it's desruction polarised the culture or social memory complex to the negative.
The group were taken to venus to be healed. This was successful.
Lucifer returned to earth in order to have the 3rd density experience repeated with a positive outcome.
Thus their number, 666. They are as a group positive but also with great negative aspects resulting from accumulated karma from the Maldek experience together with many incarnations on earth.
They believed theywere 'going to hell anyway' ( a cycle 4d negative), to quote a friend "not a nice place to be". . Hence the at times intense negativity they are able to project.
5d and above is where we are headed. Not every individual, right now in its experience, but in the period of about 70 years or so.
Everyones perspective on the changes with be subjective.
Some will spend longer in 4d than others. Many have already been in the higher densities but do not as yet recall the experience.

This is just my take on the situation as always.

[AnthroHeart]

Regarding negative 4D, I had thought that it would be complete chaos. But I don't think negative 4D is complete chaos, since Ra material says that Genghis Khan is a shipping clerk, which implies some order to things.

Is negative 4D anything close to what hollywood portrays in movies, such as Event Horizon and Hellraiser?

[drifting pages]

4D negative is "heaven" for those that have a good control of thought and will and "hell" for those that lack will and thought control. I think.

[hogey11]

43.13 Questioner: How long is a cycle of experience in fourth density in our years?
Ra: The cycle of experience is approximately 30 million of your years if the entities are not capable of being harvested sooner. There is in this density a harvest which is completely the function of the readiness of the social memory complex. It is not structured as is your own, for it deals with a more transparent distortion of the One Infinite Creator.

Does it make sense that time expands as you reach the higher densities? If we take Ashim's opinion and say that the shift from 4D to 5D happens over a period of 70 years or so, could that 70 years of 3D time be 'converted' into 30 million 4D years in our current understanding? I wouldn't rule it out of possibility, but if we want to take Ra literally, they claim 30M is the standard (just as 75,000 has been the standard here and now).

As far as the argument on a whole, I think it's just semantics. They both mean the same thing; I wouldn't be surprised if those in 4D refer to it completely differently. For all we know, they're always translating their words into "3D speak" as if it's a different language. Mistakes can always be made in the translations this way (or confused might be a better word...) Also, if time somehow expands with each graduation and the power of the moment of now is continually expanded, it would make some sense with all the 'timing' mis-translations that happen with nearly all channeled materials. The most famous in my mind is the word 'soon' on all the weekly channels; no word causes blood pressure to rise more quickly for many. It seems somewhat clear that time is treated differently beyond the veil; we also know that each previous density was much longer in length of time than the next one. Again, the concept is interesting because in some ways it fits. 4D might fit into a very small window of 3D measured time when all is said and done with the idea that those 70 years would be filled with nearly 30 million years of experience in 4D... I don't remember where else I was going with this

EDIT: I just remembered something about 3D being so short because it's such hard work for the soul to be put under the veil and all that stuff. Don't know how that plays out, but might fly in the face of my time theory idea here...

[Steppingfeet]

As far as I'm aware, I haven't seen this discussed much in the forum...

What about all these sources now saying that the earth is headed to fifth density, rather than fourth? Simply different terminology? Did we "jump a timeline"? Or skip ahead? Have we unknowingly been in fourth density yet in some kind of 3D matrix program? All just a bunch of BS?

I think you would have to depart from Ra's cosmic narrative to work with a system that says we are moving into the "fifth" density or dimension.

Apples and oranges - I don't think there is any reconciling the two streams of thought.

[Ashim]

As far as I'm aware, I haven't seen this discussed much in the forum...

What about all these sources now saying that the earth is headed to fifth density, rather than fourth? Simply different terminology? Did we "jump a timeline"? Or skip ahead? Have we unknowingly been in fourth density yet in some kind of 3D matrix program? All just a bunch of BS?

I think you would have to depart from Ra's cosmic narrative to work with a system that says we are moving into the "fifth" density or dimension.

Apples and oranges - I don't think there is any reconciling the two streams of thought.

Gary That is not quite fair.
Who says that Ra is providing a narrative?
Ra provides philosophy - we decide on the narrative.
This is a fairly basic concept.
Both apples and oranges are fruit my friend.
Why do you keep moving my threads?

[Steppingfeet]

As far as I'm aware, I haven't seen this discussed much in the forum...

What about all these sources now saying that the earth is headed to fifth density, rather than fourth? Simply different terminology? Did we "jump a timeline"? Or skip ahead? Have we unknowingly been in fourth density yet in some kind of 3D matrix program? All just a bunch of BS?

I think you would have to depart from Ra's cosmic narrative to work with a system that says we are moving into the "fifth" density or dimension.

Apples and oranges - I don't think there is any reconciling the two streams of thought.

Gary That is not quite fair.
Who says that Ra is providing a narrative?
Ra provides philosophy - we decide on the narrative.
This is a fairly basic concept.
Both apples and oranges are fruit my friend.
Why do you keep moving my threads?

I get tired of my own words sometimes and endeavor to say things differently. By "cosmic narrative" I mean only to indicate Ra's cosmology.

Narrative is applicable word, I think. Ra tells a story of eight densities, the eighth being the first of the next octave. They tell a story of infinity and finity, unity and manyness, polarity and the veil, chakras and activations/blockages, mind/body/spirit complexes and forms of service and seeking.

I happen to agree with that story. I happen to think it the closest representation oftruth I've personally encountered in words. But in a pluralistic world, I have to recognize that it is one cosmology among others.

Sometimes different cosmologies can be reconciled one with the other, sometimes the discrepancy is too much - you have to abandon one to work with the other, or at least abandon aspects of one to work with aspects of the other. Or, you hold conflicting views simultaneously, accepting each, somehow, as equally valid on their own terms. Thus my point regarding apples and oranges. Yes in the real world apples and oranges are both fruit, but the expression "apples and oranges" conveys two categorically different items that are difficult to relate.

That's my opinion. Maybe a system of thought which says we are moving into a fifth dimension/density, and a system of thought which says we move sequentially through densities/dimensions and now move from third to fourth, can be reconciled. I dunno Ashim.

Regarding your final question, why do you post threads in forums where they don't quite belong? Why don't you ask me this question via PM in response to the PM I sent you explaining the recently moved thread? : )

Much love.

[Ashim]

As far as I'm aware, I haven't seen this discussed much in the forum...

What about all these sources now saying that the earth is headed to fifth density, rather than fourth? Simply different terminology? Did we "jump a timeline"? Or skip ahead? Have we unknowingly been in fourth density yet in some kind of 3D matrix program? All just a bunch of BS?

I think you would have to depart from Ra's cosmic narrative to work with a system that says we are moving into the "fifth" density or dimension.

Apples and oranges - I don't think there is any reconciling the two streams of thought.

Gary That is not quite fair.
Who says that Ra is providing a narrative?
Ra provides philosophy - we decide on the narrative.
This is a fairly basic concept.
Both apples and oranges are fruit my friend.
Why do you keep moving my threads?

I get tired of my own words sometimes and endeavor to say things differently. By "cosmic narrative" I mean only to indicate Ra's cosmology.

Narrative is applicable word, I think. Ra tells a story of eight densities, the eighth being the first of the next octave. They tell a story of infinity and finity, unity and manyness, polarity and the veil, chakras and activations/blockages, mind/body/spirit complexes and forms of service and seeking.

I happen to agree with that story. I happen to think it the closest representation oftruth I've personally encountered in words. But in a pluralistic world, I have to recognize that it is one cosmology among others.

Sometimes different cosmologies can be reconciled one with the other, sometimes the discrepancy is too much - you have to abandon one to work with the other, or at least abandon aspects of one to work with aspects of the other. Or, you hold conflicting views simultaneously, accepting each, somehow, as equally valid on their own terms. Thus my point regarding apples and oranges. Yes in the real world apples and oranges are both fruit, but the expression "apples and oranges" conveys two categorically different items that are difficult to relate.

That's my opinion. Maybe a system of thought which says we are moving into a fifth dimension/density, and a system of thought which says we move sequentially through densities/dimensions and now move from third to fourth, can be reconciled. I dunno Ashim.

Regarding your final question, why do you post threads in forums where they don't quite belong? Why don't you ask me this question via PM in response to the PM I sent you explaining the recently moved thread? : )

Much love.

Thanks Gary.
I understand what you are saying.
I had the feeling that some of my contents in the threads would offer the forum at least my personal opinion.
I try to be scientific in some posts and determine to share my understandings on various Law of One related topics.
Please correct me if I am wrong but did you not move some of my posts without sending a pm to explain why?
Just moving a thread based on Ashtar Command teleport technology into the friggin treehouse!
It's like- are you calling me a monkey?
I was basically saying that I had used the technology and could explain it and was sent to the 'zoo'.
It is not even channeled information - it was an attempt to share results of personal research with the larger community.
I always provide Ra quotes in order to keep threads on track and in direct relation to the Law of One.

Sorry, perhaps I'm just so used to Monica as she always does write me a note with a polite explaination of what is going on.
Moderating a thread is not the same as 'handling' a thread.
Thanks for your love Gary, I respect your work greatly.

[Patrick]

That's when I like to repeat to myself: "All is well always!"

[Steppingfeet]

Thanks Gary.
I understand what you are saying.
I had the feeling that some of my contents in the threads would offer the forum at least my personal opinion.
I try to be scientific in some posts and determine to share my understandings on various Law of One related topics.

I know your heart is always in the right place, Ashim.

Please correct me if I am wrong but did you not move some of my posts without sending a pm to explain why?
Just moving a thread based on Ashtar Command teleport technology into the friggin treehouse!
It's like- are you calling me a monkey?
I was basically saying that I had used the technology and could explain it and was sent to the 'zoo'.
It is not even channeled information - it was an attempt to share results of personal research with the larger community.
I always provide Ra quotes in order to keep threads on track and in direct relation to the Law of One.

Yes, I am guilty of having moved your threads a couple times without a notice to you. Instead I left a redirect in their place. (The thing that says "moved" and, when clicked, directs one to the new location.)

I apologize for this but for a while there I was flying solo for the most part and a bit stretched with energy and time, so I had to take some shortcuts. (I also cooked dinner in the microwave a couple of times instead of on the stovetop, but don't tell anyone.)

And, Ashim, regarding Treehuggers, it's a place of lightheartedness, not a zoo. : ) The mods slot threads there that are less focused on discussion and more on lighthearted, playful banter. A thread is not banished or exiled into Treehouse, just like a thread is not banished or exiled when moved into Strictly, or Life. If you think a particular thread doesn't belong there, let me know.

With love, Gary

[ƒ❤losopher]

Bashar says 4th density and 4th dimension aren't the same, 4th density is actually "physically" the 5th dimension, or at least that is what i remember.

I explain it myself this way.
RA distinguishes between time/space and space/time. We are in 3rd Density space/time now when we die we change to 3rd Density time/space.

3rd Density time/space = Astral plane = 4th Dimension

Thus, the next level is 5th Dimension or 4th Density space/time.

There is the catch, though, that many sources using Dimensions say there are 12 (give or take a few what particular source you take) and Ra splits it up in potentially infinite sets of 7 Densities each (Octave).

Tough to get it on one common denominator, isn't it?

[Tenet Nosce]

As far as I'm aware, I haven't seen this discussed much in the forum...

What about all these sources now saying that the earth is headed to fifth density, rather than fourth? Simply different terminology? Did we "jump a timeline"? Or skip ahead? Have we unknowingly been in fourth density yet in some kind of 3D matrix program? All just a bunch of BS?

I think you would have to depart from Ra's cosmic narrative to work with a system that says we are moving into the "fifth" density or dimension.

Apples and oranges - I don't think there is any reconciling the two streams of thought.

I think somebody may have been listening in on our discussion! I follow many channeled messages, but one of the ones I actually like is Matthew's Messages. I hope it's not too off-topic to include a snippet here, but it is directly relevant to your post. Most curiously- I don't believe they have spoken so directly to this particular question.

01 Apr 12

21. Please don’t expect to see all the marvels of the Golden Age at year’s end. We are not saying that eliminating all pollution and turning deserts into paradises, for instance, could not happen in fleeting seconds. Those could indeed be managed in the blink of an eye IF that belief were in your collective consciousness, but it isn’t, and that is why we have said that changes such as those will come incrementally, yet with a swiftness that will amaze you. However, during your journey with Earth through fourth density to her destination in fifth, your consciousness will continue expanding; you will develop your innate ability to co-create and innovate whatever you strongly desire and can visualize.

[zenmaster]

I think somebody may have been listening in on our discussion!

It's quite common.

[Parsons]

Questioner: Are we soon to go into the photon belt (inaudible) to transition us to fifth density by 2012?

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. Though some students do indeed learn quickly, we find that it shall take a great span of time longer than the figure which you have named in order for this planet to enter into the fifth density of wisdom. Indeed, there is within this planet the fifth, the sixth, and the seventh densities in potentiation. However, the fourth density is one which spans a great portion of your time, and those lessons await the fourth-density population.

---

Well that settles my confusion on a great many other channeled sources emphatically claiming we are entering 5D... It appears this can not be so, we are entering 4D first.

[Oceania]

well duh we're already in 4th dimension. so we're going to 5th dimension. but 4th density.

[Unbound]

Take your pick.