09-01-2010, 06:13 PM
Hey Monica. I was expecting you Glad you joined us...
I again detect a whole lot of fuzzing over words. Unity seems to have the feeling that I'm trying to redefine infinity... I'm not trying to redefine infinity. I'm not going to answer every sentence that assumes this. I'm not detracting from your definition of infinity unity. In fact I agreed with it the last time. I just thought the word was misplaced on the concept and I was shown wrong.
I'm hoping to show that our perspectives of it change... Infinity has the ability to show it self in infinite ways. And the keyword is indeed distortion... What allows infinity to be experienced in infinite ways is distortion... Every perception in this universe of any entity ever up to the original thought is a distortion of the infinite. Which itself lies beyond comprehension because it will never be able to represent itself to anything else... There being nothing else outside of it that it can show itself to... So the infinite is indeed beyond perception. Even a total perspective requires there to be an object and a subject. But every perception even the slightest is a perception of part of the infinite.
So when the infinite is in this state. It is without concepts without definition without anything. It's the hardest and at the same time the easiest to understand concepts. You don't need to do anything to understand it, there are no intricacies, it isn't even big or small or complicated it's a non event. A quantum event with a probability of zero. It does not exist as there is nothing it can exist in relation to. So this is pre-existence. Yet it still is infinite and everything unity tells us it is. The original thought is required for it to experience self and kick start existence.
But this is why buddhists approach the infinite in emptyness.
Monica, you sugest that infinity cannot create because creating implies a new action... You call this is the distortion of creation into our domain... I agree. And even here in our every day consciousness if we look closely it does not exist... Say I create a painting... What part of it is new? The frame? The cloth? The paint? Nothing in there is new. We often say the composition is new. But the composition has always been part of the collection of possible compositions that could have been painted on the painting.... So this is not creation. It is the becoming manifest of the unmanifest.
We have however defined this precise thing as creating... We call this creating... So creation simply means organizing elements in such a way that we CALL it creating... Something emerges that was unmanifest before but still it has always been part of the infinite. And this happens everywhere in infinity. The infinite contains creation yes, but every second that something occurs that we call creation... Infinity creates... It is valid in the same way we say that humanity has created some masterpieces in art. And again it's just semantics..
Sematics kind of shows that it really is a distortion. Nothing changes in the infinite, only our perception of it.
And that's what I have been trying to say, all the opinions in this thread are distorted perceptions of something that cannot be perceived as there is nothing to which it can exist in relation to (And even this is a distortion).
So let me restate my position simply. I am maybe more liberal about the distortions in which we can describe it.. I believe they're all equally valid or invalid. Monkey mind is simply one way of perceiving infinity. Consciousness is direct perception, monkey mind is only a subset of this, direct perception of a mind we evolved to make sense of and at the same time define locality... Consciousness follows different rules it does not need to create an internal representation... When all distortion is gone only direct awareness of the infinite remains. This is what I believe Peregrinus and Experience you have been saying.
And I fully agree with them. And I know people have been looking for this experience throughout the ages. And I think people can experience it.
It is a perspective or non perspective that collapses all of infinity into nothingness, at the edge of this event the first shapes are the primordial shapes. aka The original thought. But these are subsets of infinity, they exist in the infinite. But are in themselves not infinite. All the subsets together still form the whole, or the infinite. Nothing vanishes from infinity.
I don't think we're disagreeing as much as we think we are. We're just each speaking from our own perspectives focusing on different things we consider important.
I again detect a whole lot of fuzzing over words. Unity seems to have the feeling that I'm trying to redefine infinity... I'm not trying to redefine infinity. I'm not going to answer every sentence that assumes this. I'm not detracting from your definition of infinity unity. In fact I agreed with it the last time. I just thought the word was misplaced on the concept and I was shown wrong.
I'm hoping to show that our perspectives of it change... Infinity has the ability to show it self in infinite ways. And the keyword is indeed distortion... What allows infinity to be experienced in infinite ways is distortion... Every perception in this universe of any entity ever up to the original thought is a distortion of the infinite. Which itself lies beyond comprehension because it will never be able to represent itself to anything else... There being nothing else outside of it that it can show itself to... So the infinite is indeed beyond perception. Even a total perspective requires there to be an object and a subject. But every perception even the slightest is a perception of part of the infinite.
So when the infinite is in this state. It is without concepts without definition without anything. It's the hardest and at the same time the easiest to understand concepts. You don't need to do anything to understand it, there are no intricacies, it isn't even big or small or complicated it's a non event. A quantum event with a probability of zero. It does not exist as there is nothing it can exist in relation to. So this is pre-existence. Yet it still is infinite and everything unity tells us it is. The original thought is required for it to experience self and kick start existence.
But this is why buddhists approach the infinite in emptyness.
Monica, you sugest that infinity cannot create because creating implies a new action... You call this is the distortion of creation into our domain... I agree. And even here in our every day consciousness if we look closely it does not exist... Say I create a painting... What part of it is new? The frame? The cloth? The paint? Nothing in there is new. We often say the composition is new. But the composition has always been part of the collection of possible compositions that could have been painted on the painting.... So this is not creation. It is the becoming manifest of the unmanifest.
We have however defined this precise thing as creating... We call this creating... So creation simply means organizing elements in such a way that we CALL it creating... Something emerges that was unmanifest before but still it has always been part of the infinite. And this happens everywhere in infinity. The infinite contains creation yes, but every second that something occurs that we call creation... Infinity creates... It is valid in the same way we say that humanity has created some masterpieces in art. And again it's just semantics..
Sematics kind of shows that it really is a distortion. Nothing changes in the infinite, only our perception of it.
And that's what I have been trying to say, all the opinions in this thread are distorted perceptions of something that cannot be perceived as there is nothing to which it can exist in relation to (And even this is a distortion).
So let me restate my position simply. I am maybe more liberal about the distortions in which we can describe it.. I believe they're all equally valid or invalid. Monkey mind is simply one way of perceiving infinity. Consciousness is direct perception, monkey mind is only a subset of this, direct perception of a mind we evolved to make sense of and at the same time define locality... Consciousness follows different rules it does not need to create an internal representation... When all distortion is gone only direct awareness of the infinite remains. This is what I believe Peregrinus and Experience you have been saying.
And I fully agree with them. And I know people have been looking for this experience throughout the ages. And I think people can experience it.
It is a perspective or non perspective that collapses all of infinity into nothingness, at the edge of this event the first shapes are the primordial shapes. aka The original thought. But these are subsets of infinity, they exist in the infinite. But are in themselves not infinite. All the subsets together still form the whole, or the infinite. Nothing vanishes from infinity.
I don't think we're disagreeing as much as we think we are. We're just each speaking from our own perspectives focusing on different things we consider important.