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+--- Thread: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." (/showthread.php?tid=8243)
"Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Bring4th_Austin - 11-01-2013
Thanks to a particular person's very hard work in making the relistened transcripts available and compatible side by side with older transcripts, certain exchanges in the Ra material become clearer or take on a different meaning than from the original printing, sometimes with the changing of the simplest words.
One question which had minor changes that seem to change the meaning completely is 12.28. The original read:
"The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to avert the destruction."
The meaning seems clear - the Wanderer incarnates into an environment which could be likened to a maelstrom, and in doing so, may get caught up in the current and lose themselves. Their intention in incarnating was to "avert the destruction," which upon closer examination seems vague and strange, but makes sense if you consider the intent of a Wanderer is to lighten the planetary vibration and increase harvest, and the opposite of these things happening being destruction.
However, the relistened version says something different:
"The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction."
Okay...what does that mean? "Be swept into the maestrom from which it had incarnated"...incarnated from a maelstrom seems to imply that wherever they were before they incarnated, it was a maestrom, if they are incarnating from the maelstrom, not to. "To aid the destruction"...if we follow the same trail of logic as the first original transcript, we would take this to mean that the purpose for the Wanderer to incarnate is to help the destruction. However, I suppose it is possible to interpret this to mean that "aiding the destruction" is a cause/result of getting swept into the maelstrom, thus being the thing that creates a karmic involvement.
But I'm still not very clear. Is there another interpretation anyone can think of? Am I failing at grammar? Or did Ra fail at grammar?
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Sagittarius - 11-01-2013
Depends what you think of destruction doesn't it. Destruction to me is the clinging to sensations, sensations can only end in destruction which is where every thought goes. Love is the fire that burns every thought including the thoughts that things get destroyed.
To become karmically involved means you become for or against things, inevitably leading to the destruction of things in time. How many "incarnations" you have nominally, means nothing because it's all one incarnation.
Wanderers do incarnate to help the destruction wholly, including the destruction of the individual self, because destruction can only ever be out of love.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - kycahi - 11-01-2013
Speaking of grammar, ending a sentence with a preposition is usually a serious no-no, but here is the first version slightly edited that way: ...and thus be swept into the maelstrom which it had incarnated to avert the destruction of.
Here is the later version similarly edited: ...and thus be swept into the maelstrom which it had incarnated to aid the destruction from. Well, yuck. That didn't seem to clarify anything, did it?
If somebody asked me to vote, I think I would choose "aid" and "of," like this: "The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to aid the destruction."
I don't remember reading this passage and being confused (though my memory isn't what it used to be). I think I just kind of inferred that sometimes a Wanderer falls off the intended track and fails in the mission of making things better for folks in 3D space/time. And, in a worst case, make so much of a mistake that this being from a higher density must live another 3D life (or more) to undo a personal "damage."
Interesting question, Austin.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - anagogy - 11-01-2013
(11-01-2013, 03:15 AM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: But I'm still not very clear. Is there another interpretation anyone can think of? Am I failing at grammar? Or did Ra fail at grammar?
Ra failed at grammar.
I am confident the meaning was as originally conveyed by the edit, especially given the context of the entire session.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - βαθμιαίος - 11-01-2013
I think Ra got confused about subject and antecedent as they spoke the sentence. Here's the audio: http://www.lawofone.info/audio/12-28.mp3
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - xise - 11-01-2013
Maybe Ra is trying to say that wanderers incarnate to destroy the maelstrom, but sometimes they get caught up in it.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - BrownEye - 11-02-2013
Quote:"The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission and be swept into the vortex from which it had incarnated."
It sounds like aiding the destruction of the vortex, which might be as simple as a 3D vortex that needs to be rebuilt or replaced with a 4D vortex. Out with the old, in with the new. Destroy old ideas and beliefs.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - zenmaster - 11-02-2013
I'm thinking the maelstrom is one of destructive tendencies. Ra had used "distortions of destruction" as a means to create karmic bond before. Would make more sense if it read "The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of destruction from which it had incarnated to aid."
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Asolsutsesvyl - 06-08-2021
Concerning why wanderers are here, I had some thoughts on the meaning of "the maelstrom", and found there was already a thread on the question. I go by the relistened answer which I read as, a maelstrom is to be counteracted by wanderers and threatens to neutralize wanderers in turn by dragging them into it.
(11-01-2013, 03:15 AM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Is there another interpretation anyone can think of? Am I failing at grammar? Or did Ra fail at grammar?
Adding an "of" at the end gives...
"The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction [of]."
But what does this mean, really?
The "sinkhole of indifference" comes to mind as something large which can swallow many people up, and which is a bit like a destructive maelstrom worth trying to destroy. After all, the masses swallowed up by it are said to repeat 3D.
But how could that relate to wanderers coming from it to counteract it? They could come from a future of a failed harvest for Earth, where the maelstrom sucked up too much. Thus, they went back to try to change that.
In other words, in the future do wanderers go, "this future for Earth sucks, let's go erase and replace it, but the forces anchoring it have grown powerful so it's very difficult"? (Of course, there may also be more types of wanderers with such a view of the future, e.g. those that wanted a negative 4D future.)
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Diana - 06-08-2021
Quote:12.28 ▶ Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? What density do they come from?
Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction.
I see the confusion, and here is my interpretation.
When one incarnates, one does so within a certain reality. In this case, the reality is 3D Earth. So, the Wanderer incarnates into 3D Earth; thus "from which" refers to the milieu, the reality, the 3D density of Earth where the incarnation has happened, not where it is going to happen in reference to where it may have come from. So "from which" just means that the entity has incarnated here into this density/reality and refers to its entrance point, its reality. And this reality is the maelstrom.
If the phrasing was just "from," and not "from which," it may have had a different meaning. But I think "from which" just refers to this reality and the incarnation that has occurred within it.
And as is obvious, the rest of Ra's statement supports this idea.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Asolsutsesvyl - 06-08-2021
(06-08-2021, 12:06 PM)Diana Wrote:Quote:12.28 ▶ Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? What density do they come from?
Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction.
I see the confusion, and here is my interpretation. [...]
Your view may more simply match Ra's words, without adding more ideas into the mix. The general idea I had also ties into ideas from other channeled materials which describe wanderers as being back from the future. But if "the maelstrom" truly extends to the future "home" of the wanderers from the present, it's difficult to see how the future could be anything but really grim, too grim for such wanderers to be positive instead of negative, on second thought.
I'm less clear on what the maelstrom is supposed to be, beyond being something in this world. If it's the whole reality, then the point would seem to transform into one of wanderers having to avoid becoming fully integrated into life on Earth, as being anything but profoundly alienated from it would then mean being swept into the maelstrom. It would make the danger different from that of being fully involved in some parts of life on Earth, and instead make it one of losing some kind of carefully maintained higher-level detachment from all of it which I think may be tied to the "purity of mind" requirement.
Your interpretation suggests the syntax of the answer from Ra is a bit jumbled. That's not unreasonable in this case. That also leaves room for making something sensible out of the "aiding" and "destruction". Separating those two ideas, there's the ideas of how wanderers aid on the one hand, and as for something destructive, I still think of the sinkhole of indifference as the main destructive thing associated with this reality.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Sacred Fool - 06-08-2021
I listened just now to the recording on youtube and the first printing does seem to be fudged in favor of a more coherent and sensible reading.
The text seems perfectly understandable through the word "maelstrom." If one were to put a comma after that word and another after "incarnated"--and the commas would not be necessary--and one overlooked the clause, "from which it had incarnated," then the meaning would be this. Wanderers can screw up by becoming hypnotized by the 3D illusion and, more than just being ineffective, they actually enhance the messiness of it.
That's not a perfectly satisfying interpretation, but neither would be any other coming out of that particular passage, I would guess. Happily, it's not an especially crucial point or we could be here all day squabbling over it. ha ha.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Asolsutsesvyl - 06-08-2021
Since I referred to the sinkhole of indifference, here is the Q'uo session with the most about it, which was discussed a bit in a thread contrasting it with 'Nietzschean striving'.
(06-08-2021, 01:12 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote: ... Wanderers can screw up by becoming hypnotized by the 3D illusion and, more than just being ineffective, they actually enhance the messiness of it.
This more general point, the way you put it, seems to make the greatest danger that of becoming an agent of corrupt or empty imitation spirituality, since that's the type of illusion which directly competes with real spirituality and tries to preempt it. I think the messiest illusions are those which "pretend" to transcend illusion.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Dtris - 06-08-2021
Quote:The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction.
Well since it mentions destruction. The crucial question is what is being destroyed? We can look at the full text for more context.
Ra Wrote:12.26 Questioner: Thank you. Well, you spoke of Wanderers. Who are Wanderers? Where do they come from?
Ra: I am Ra. Imagine, if you will, the sands of your shores. As countless as the grains of sand are the sources of intelligent infinity. When a social memory complex has achieved its complete understanding of its desire, it may conclude that its desire is service to others with the distortion towards reaching their hand, figuratively, to any entities who call for aid. These entities whom you may call the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow move towards this calling of sorrow. These entities are from all reaches of the infinite creation and are bound together by the desire to serve in this distortion.
12.27 Questioner: How many of them are incarnate on Earth now?
Ra: I am Ra. The number is approximate due to an heavy influx of those birthed at this time due to an intensive need to lighten the planetary vibration and thus aid in harvest. The number approaches sixty-five million.
12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? What density do they come from?
Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction.
12.29 Questioner: What could one of these entities do to become karmically involved? Could you give us an example?
Ra: I am Ra. An entity which acts in a consciously unloving manner in action with other beings can become karmically involved.
Now with a bit of rephrasing, "The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom, from which it had incarnated, to aid the destruction." We can simplify the sentence a bit. " The challenge of the wanderer is that it will forget its, mission and thus be swept into the maelstrom to aid the destruction."
When we consider that becoming karmically involved means to act in a consciously unloving manner, and this would go against their mission of lightening the planetary vibrations, it could be considered as aiding the destruction.
Now the prase, "and thus be swept into the maelstrom, from which it had incarnated," can also be more easily interpreted outside the context of karmic involvement and destruction. The maelstrom is the swirling polarity of third density, where the choice is yet to be made. Forgetting the mission means being caught up in the same turbulent energy as native beings are working thru. Now the phrase "from which it had incarnated," means that the wanderer must incarnate into this maelstrom, hopefully to remember the mission and lighten the load.
Now back to my original question of what is being destroyed. I believe it is a reference to the general state of the harvest, as unloving energy increases entropy and disorder. What I find fascinating is that it seems the precision of the language Ra used increased throughout the sessions and the early sessions like this one have the most imprecise language. The precision also seems to degrade the more transient questions are asked, almost like Ra is loosing interest and half assing the answers.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - flofrog - 06-08-2021
Dtris, I wonder if the apparent loss of interest from Ra does not stem from wanting to focus less on the Wanderers losing themselves. After all, Ra stated, a few times, that our Logos being slightly biased towards the positive, and entities consciously/unconsciously aiming their path towards reuniting with Creator, perhaps he wants to redirect away from the dangers ? Just a thought.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Dtris - 06-08-2021
(06-08-2021, 03:42 PM)flofrog Wrote: Dtris, I wonder if the apparent loss of interest from Ra does not stem from wanting to focus less on the Wanderers losing themselves. After all, Ra stated, a few times, that our Logos being slightly biased towards the positive, and entities consciously/unconsciously aiming their path towards reuniting with Creator, perhaps he wants to redirect away from the dangers ? Just a thought.
Ah, perhaps. But what I meant more and forgot to add the context is that prior questions in this session were about the Men in Black and other transient topics. I think this degraded the signal a bit so to say.
Then the answer to the final query is interesting in this session as well,
Ra Wrote:12.33 Questioner: Thank you. Is there anything that we can do to make the instrument more comfortable?
Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to realign the object upon which the symbols sit. It is not a significant distortion for one session only, but you will find upon measuring the entire assemblage that the resting place is one point four degrees [1.4°] from the correct alignment, the resting place an additional one-half degree [0.5°] away from proper orientation. Do not concern yourselves overly with this in the space/time nexus present, but do not allow these distortions to remain over a long period or the contact will be gradually impaired.
RE: "Maelstrom (of)/(from)," "to (avert)/(aid) the destruction." - Ralib1 - 06-23-2021
Ra is either saying the great danger is that a wanderer will forget it’s mission, become karmically involved and be swept into the maelstrom from which it incarnates into, thus aiding in the destruction of the planetary vibration, rather than lightening it.
Or they are saying “aid” as in heal or relieve.
thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to [heal] the destruction
they aren’t here to prevent the maelstrom from happening as it’s already occurring. They are here to help raise the planetary vibration .
Because there was no comma after “Incarnated” I’m inclined to believe that the second option is likely what Ra meant and it was just a double-entendre.