This will be the most controversial thing I will say.

[AnthroHeart]

I just wish the illusion wasn't so dense. I wonder what it would be like to see through the illusion.
Probably would have to face myself and my dark side fully.
But then I'd have unconditional love to get me through it.
Is 7D a cakewalk? Or are you still working through karma?

[Spaced]

Karma is a third density thing.

[Adonai One]

Probably would have to face myself and my dark side fully.

This is what love is all about.

---

That's the biggest point I wish to make here: Love is a journey about reincorporating our universal shadows. The journey is once again complete when the shadow is gone. When love is complete, it need not be defined.

[xise]

Probably would have to face myself and my dark side fully.

The sub-concepts of forgiveness and acceptance were key for me in this. Snuggle, hug, and kiss your dark side as you would your dog. Make your dark side feel accepted and the integration process starts. Remember, control is not involved in love, and so nothing in your acceptance involves giving your dark side control. You will find that once you smother your dark side with love and acceptance, it ceases to seek or exert control, for love heals that distortion of power that is control.

Acceptance is key.

[Adonai One]

Anyways, nobody here really wants to discuss the point I wish to make. If anyone does rather than trying to redirect the message to about how we shouldn't try to see the whole picture, then let's do so.

I am getting tired of making topics that are never received at all.

---

/vent

---

I mean, am I right or wrong? Nobody here challenges me. Nobody attempts to truly discredit me. The discussion is simply changed to something else entirely.

[Spaced]

what point?

[Unbound]

Perhaps if you make your point we can discuss it? Is your point that love is unnecessary or that love only exists in separation and not in unity? Or that love is derived from separation? Or that love is an illusion and thus not real? Or that despite being an illusion it is real? Or that knowledge is more real than love? Stop me if I get it right aha

---

Also, what if we agree with you, so there is no thought or desire to discredit? Aha

[Jade]

Anyways, nobody here really wants to discuss the point I wish to make. If anyone does rather than trying to redirect the message to about how we shouldn't try to see the whole picture, then let's do so.

I am getting tired of making topics that are never received at all.

---

/vent

---

I mean, am I right or wrong? Nobody here challenges me. Nobody attempts to truly discredit me. The discussion is simply changed to something else entirely.

My friend, if you are seeking conflict, you may be in the wrong place. There are very few people here who are of a mindset to tell someone that they are wrong in the way that they think. You are free to create your own reality. You cannot rely on others to challenge you, you must learn to challenge yourself.

I love you, Adonai!

[Adonai One]

Probably would have to face myself and my dark side fully.

This is what love is all about.

---

That's the biggest point I wish to make here: Love is a journey about reincorporating our universal shadows. The journey is once again complete when the shadow is gone. When love is complete, it need not be defined.

Is this right or wrong? Anyways, pardon my frustration. It seems I am used to something else on forums.

[Unbound]

Sure, I'd say that is an accurate description, however I would also say that is not the only way the journey can or could be described.

[Adonai One]

Anyways, nobody here really wants to discuss the point I wish to make. If anyone does rather than trying to redirect the message to about how we shouldn't try to see the whole picture, then let's do so.

I am getting tired of making topics that are never received at all.

---

/vent

---

I mean, am I right or wrong? Nobody here challenges me. Nobody attempts to truly discredit me. The discussion is simply changed to something else entirely.

My friend, if you are seeking conflict, you may be in the wrong place. There are very few people here who are of a mindset to tell someone that they are wrong in the way that they think. You are free to create your own reality. You cannot rely on others to challenge you, you must learn to challenge yourself.

I love you, Adonai!

My beliefs have been shaped by being shown I was wrong through discussion. I would be nowhere without such teaching. Such teaching is most efficient when various ideas are audited against each other.

I love you too and I now understand what the culture is here. It's a loving one.

[Jade]

I personally feel that you are entirely right. Our shadow selves are what we project onto other selves that make them unpalatable. Integrating our shadow into ourselves dissolves that separation. When you see that all are one, good and bad, and love all as the same, that is unity, that is love, that is etc etc etc etc ad infinitum...

It is a challenge, but it doesn't have to be a tooth and nail struggle every step, unless you want it to be. Loving the ups and downs of the journey is part of it all. Being grateful for every catalyst in the moment is a goal we all are constantly seeking.

[Adonai One]

Sure, I'd say that is an accurate description, however I would also say that is not the only way the journey can or could be described.

I see. I will certainly consider this. It seems I seek objectivity. But I am a fool to think I will find it. :p

Thank you.

[Jade]

We learn a lot through conflict, but it is not the only way we learn. If it is your preferential way of learning, that is alright as well. For what it's worth, I think I spend a fair amount of effort offering subtle corrections towards my distortion of feelings on many subjects you discuss. However, I've never been of the personality type to debate for debate's sake, which is indeed a common archetype on internet forums that is probably lacking here. I prefer to offer my own thoughts and let that be. Expending any sort of aggression to attempt to persuade a mind is fairly wasteful to me, I can't change someone else's mind ever, they have to change it for themselves. I offer the knowledge I have and if it's different from what you have and you accept it, fair enough.

[Adonai One]

Thank all of you. I had my emotional moment... Thanks for your patience.

[Unbound]

AdonaiOne, I am going to share a secret with you. Right now, the one person that most embodies my shadow, which is what I consider to be all those aspects of ourselves which we push away or are apprehensive of, is you. When we first began interacting I dealt with you in the way that I have often treated my own shadow, needing to be brought in to conscious light and then over time I realize that there is nothing I would seek to change about you or your views. I ceased to have any desire to challenge you, and in me grew a desire simply to share with you my pure spirit as it expresses itself through me. I sought to love you, and I do.

I have no arguments to use against you in any fashion, you are a fine fencer, however, I will use, as my trump card the sheer fact of our interaction as proof that there is still yet mystery, and mystery shall ever exist.

---

Also, the fool finds everything that no other can, for they leap with great faith and so with great faith are they received.

[Adonai One]

We learn a lot through conflict, but it is not the only way we learn. If it is your preferential way of learning, that is alright as well. For what it's worth, I think I spend a fair amount of effort offering subtle corrections towards my distortion of feelings on many subjects you discuss. However, I've never been of the personality type to debate for debate's sake, which is indeed a common archetype on internet forums that is probably lacking here. I prefer to offer my own thoughts and let that be. Expending any sort of aggression to attempt to persuade a mind is fairly wasteful to me, I can't change someone else's mind ever, they have to change it for themselves. I offer the knowledge I have and if it's different from what you have and you accept it, fair enough.

You do and you certainly invoke thought. You bring me a lot of happiness. Your posts are so sweet.

Anyways, you're right: Change starts within.

---

AdonaiOne, I am going to share a secret with you. Right now, the one person that most embodies my shadow, which is what I consider to be all those aspects of ourselves which we push away or are apprehensive of, is you. When we first began interacting I dealt with you in the way that I have often treated my own shadow, needing to be brought in to conscious light and then over time I realize that there is nothing I would seek to change about you or your views. I ceased to have any desire to challenge you, and in me grew a desire simply to share with you my pure spirit as it expresses itself through me. I sought to love you, and I do.

I have no arguments to use against you in any fashion, you are a fine fencer, however, I will use, as my trump card the sheer fact of our interaction as proof that there is still yet mystery, and mystery shall ever exist.

---

Also, the fool finds everything that no other can, for they leap with great faith and so with great faith are they received.

Well, it's always a pleasure, Tanner. I talk to you out of a love of seeing what you stand for and seek. You're an intriguing individual. I look forward to seeing you here in the time that is to come.

Anyways, I have faith that all shall be well for we are all one.

I am happy to have served you. Thank you for being of service to me in getting to know my shadows.

[Jade]

We learn a lot through conflict, but it is not the only way we learn. If it is your preferential way of learning, that is alright as well. For what it's worth, I think I spend a fair amount of effort offering subtle corrections towards my distortion of feelings on many subjects you discuss. However, I've never been of the personality type to debate for debate's sake, which is indeed a common archetype on internet forums that is probably lacking here. I prefer to offer my own thoughts and let that be. Expending any sort of aggression to attempt to persuade a mind is fairly wasteful to me, I can't change someone else's mind ever, they have to change it for themselves. I offer the knowledge I have and if it's different from what you have and you accept it, fair enough.

You do and you certainly invoke thought. You bring me a lot of happiness. Your posts are so sweet.

Anyways, you're right: Change starts within.

Thank you, my love. I try to answer every call I receive. You dial often but I don't mind. You are my friend and I know your heart is always in the right place. Don't be ashamed or afraid of any actions you take here, we are you and you are us and we are we. Everyone belongs.

[Unbound]

All IS well.

[anagogy]

I tried to subtly hint at this in the archetypes board but I've decided to open it up wide open:

Love is an illusion. Even as Ra has said, it is a distortion. It is a creation within illusory experiences.

This shouldn't even be controversial but I know many of you will question this. Love is something sacred to you. It gives you something to aspire to. And the irony is that is its very spirit and purpose. It is the moonlight in the darkness.

I digress, why is love a distortion you ask? Because it already exists as the defacto state within infinity. The unity of love is inherent. Love only needs to be defined as a concept when it is shaded by darkness and disunity in an existence such as ours. Within infinity, it needs no name. Love does not to be defined for it is not strived for. It simply is.

So when one loves all things, truly so, love as a concept becomes extraneous. A concept needs duality in order to exist, at least here, thus love is only made definable by disunity.

This is like a yin and yang type of thing. Anyways, just food for thought that we can discuss.

If I'm understanding you correctly, then, I have to agree. Oneness, which is before *ALL* distortions, is beyond love. Love is word that implies a connection. Oneness is a more thorough and infinite connection.

"Because unity contains all, it cannot abhor any."

"The term Love then may be seen as the focus, the choice of attack, the type of energy of an extremely, shall we say, high order which causes intelligent energy to be formed from the potential of intelligent infinity in just such and such a way. This then may be seen to be an object rather than an activity by some of your peoples, and the principle of this extremely strong energy focus being worshiped as the Creator instead of unity or oneness from which all Loves emanate."

So it may be a matter of semantics, but if we were to abolish the word "oneness" then "love" would be the next best choice of descriptors.

Oneness is like "ultimate love", and every other density, from 7th on downwards, is like progressively less refined, and more distorted, "love". The densities are made of love that has some resistance, or distortion, mixed in with their basic structure. They have a degree of separation, or negativity, which makes them less than absolute manifestations of love.

[Horuseus]

'Love' can be seen as a medium through which all energetic potentials (with the pre-requisite of Free will to instigate) are realized through the conscious faculties of the observer (Which is both simultaneously the creator and the created). Many tend to ascribe personified qualities erroneously, conflating the 'touchy feely' chemical based Love emotion the Body Complex is familiar with to that which gave birth to the concept in the initial instance. If we consider each 'Human' to be akin to an energetic gateway in this mode of existence, than 'Love' is simply a measure of how much is allowed as an activity, rather than resisted by the self, within the Hive social structure one navigates within. I have used the 'unconditional acceptance' moniker in other posts on the subject of Love, though find there will inevitably be semantic difficulties in translating such concepts. It may be useful to look at the physical qualities of Light in a simplified manner: always flowing regardless, and without prejudice.

Of course, Love is not an 'absolute law'. I refrain from utilizing the term illusion, for what is not? There is no one 'objective reality' other than agreed upon parameters at various levels, and so reality can be considered synonymous with illusion. Yes, there is agreed upon 'less distorted perception', but that is ultimately all it is, and can be seen as various experiences of the infinite as one spirals up the Fractal tree of existence (Micro to Macro).

It is imperative to realize that we cannot grasp infinity, and there is always 'more'. This is not a limitation, but a gift. Just as this reality framework includes Love and Free Will so are there other nodes of exploration within the Infinite which excludes these concepts entirely. There is no the original thought either, but rather a series of progressive looped 'thoughts' giving birth to the next concept to explore within the Infinite soup of potentials. Any and all concepts are born within Infinity, for there is nowhere it is not, lest it be considered finite.

[AnthroHeart]

So 5D love is less distorted than 4D love, though 4D is the density of love?

[Marc]

Yup. 4D is more about compassion and 5D wisdom but it is all love until the nature of unity is grasped and the 'love illusion' passes.

[xise]

7D is where the party's at!!

[anagogy]

So 5D love is less distorted than 4D love, though 4D is the density of love?

Yes.

17.37 Questioner: Well, who inhabit the astral and who inhabit the devachanic planes?

Ra: I am Ra. Entities inhabit the various planes due to their vibrational nature. The astral plane varies from thought-forms in the lower extremities to enlightened beings who become dedicated to teach/learning in the higher astral planes.

In the devachanic planes, as you call them, are those whose vibrations are even more close to the primal distortions of love/light.

Beyond these planes there are others.

The Devachanic plane is associated with 5th density. Also, keep in mind that the lessons garnered from the lower densities are not discarded, rather, they are enhanced, refined, made richer and more multifaceted.

[Karl]

A1 if you need someone to be an abrasive and try to poke holes in all your theories I can do that for you. Just send me an idea on PM and I'll do whatever I can to destroy it

[AnthroHeart]

The Devachanic plane is associated with 5th density. Also, keep in mind that the lessons garnered from the lower densities are not discarded, rather, they are enhanced, refined, made richer and more multifaceted.

That's where I want to call home.

---

Yup. 4D is more about compassion and 5D wisdom but it is all love until the nature of unity is grasped and the 'love illusion' passes.

Interesting that even love, the 2nd distortion, is illusion. I thought illusion started at light, the 3rd distortion. By this same reasonsing, even free will, the first distortion is illusion.

[Plenum]

A1 if you need someone to be an abrasive and try to poke holes in all your theories I can do that for you. Just send me an idea on PM and I'll do whatever I can to destroy it

LOL.

[Rake]

Love is.

[Hototo]

The party is at where you are at.