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    Bring4th Bring4th Community Olio Turkey Day 2012!

    Thread: Turkey Day 2012!


    reeay Away

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    #31
    11-22-2012, 09:56 PM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2012, 09:56 PM by reeay.)
    I'm just curious. After 3000+ posts on this issue (meat consumption and animal cruelty), what is the point of these discussion? How is it benefiting all of us in terms of being in touch with this catalyst?

    It has a similar energy of the cancer thread. Challenging status quo and pushing ideologies/beliefs as morally superior.

    Perhaps the alternative way to 'face' this issue with personal integrity and responsibility/duty is to face the mirror and see self clearly instead of being caught up in challenging each other? I just had the sense that perhaps those who defend the victims have experience with victimization and/or trying to protect another who had been vulnerable. Or else, why this level of emotional charge?

    But if this looping cycle works for now, I respect that.
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      • Oceania, norral
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    #32
    11-22-2012, 11:43 PM
    Quote:Nearly 2 million pounds of grain were needed to make 3 million Tofurkys. In comparison, "to make this much turkey meat would require almost 20 million pounds of grain. Therefore ... almost 18 million pounds of grain [have been] saved," according to a Turtle Island Foods statement.

    The U.S. Department of Agriculture reported that Americans will consume 12.5 percent less turkey meat this year than in 2008.

    "A 2011 Harris Poll commissioned by the Vegetarian Resource Group of Baltimore, MD, concluded that 17 percent of Americans now eat 50 percent of all their meals without meat," the statement added.
    http://colesville.patch.com/articles/hap...e-8fcddeca

    What I notice is that a small percentage of population actually "changes". While the majority still attempts to hold to what they "believe".

    When people believe the “reality,” it reinforces the pattern. This is why “social norms” are considered so important these days—a consensus reinforcement. If people thought for themselves, those potential realities would collapse. http://www.soldierhugs.com/wp-content/up...ines-1.pdf
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      • Monica
    Monica (Offline)

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    #33
    11-23-2012, 02:39 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2012, 02:50 AM by Monica.)
    (11-22-2012, 09:56 PM)rie Wrote: I'm just curious. After 3000+ posts on this issue (meat consumption and animal cruelty), what is the point of these discussion? How is it benefiting all of us in terms of being in touch with this catalyst?

    How is this entire forum benefiting any of us?

    (11-22-2012, 09:56 PM)rie Wrote: It has a similar energy of the cancer thread. Challenging status quo and pushing ideologies/beliefs as morally superior.

    Ah, I assume you're referring to Tenet and I getting a bit technical. Sorry about that! We kinda got on a roll and were enjoying the discussion. I guess we forgot that others might wonder what we were talking about!

    Or, did you mean you felt uncomfortable with the discussion of alternative treatments? Is that what you thought came across as "morally superior?"

    Let's say we had a member, Miss Z, who had a beautiful, intelligent, normal child who was learning to talk. But then this child became severely autistic immediately after being vaccinated. Miss Z was devastated! She told the doctors what happened, but they insisted that the autism had nothing to do with the vaccines, so a few years later Miss Z had her younger child vaccinated, and the same thing happened. So she had started out with 2 normal, healthy children and now she had 2 severely autistic children who required constant supervision. By ages 8 and 10, respectively, neither of them could talk or even use the potty by themselves. Miss Z couldn't leave them alone for even a moment. She couldn't leave them with a babysitter. Her marriage fell apart because of the stress, so now she had even more struggles. She was on the verge of collapse but could never allow herself any rest.

    Then, just when she felt so overwhelmed she didn't think she'd survive, she got an answer to her prayers. A high school friend looked her up on facebook, they got to talking, and it turned out the old friend also had an autistic child. But, her child was now doing much better! She told Miss Z what had worked for her, and Miss Z utilized those alternative healing methods immediately. Within 1 week, both of her children were speaking in sentences instead of grunting, and both could use the potty by themselves. They were still autistic, but their behavior improved so dramatically that they were now manageable and could have a good quality of life. They continued to improve over time.

    Excited and grateful, Miss Z wanted to 'pay it forward,' so she posted her discoveries on facebook, and joined an online discussion forum, where she shared the miracle! She hoped to reach other young mothers before they made the same mistakes she had made. She told them of the corruption in the drug industry, and how she had been misled into thinking vaccines were safe. She told them of the alternative healing methods she'd used to heal her children.

    Most of the other parents didn't believe her. After all, she was just a mom, not a doctor, and their doctors had reassured them that vaccines were safe! But, a few did believe her, and thanked her for sharing her story. Several of the parents who had autistic children tried her methods, and their children dramatically improved! Their heartfelt gratitude made it all worthwhile, despite the ridicule Miss Z received for challenging the status quo.

    Now, here is a question for you: Was Miss Z "morally superior" for sharing her story and seeking others who might be looking for answers, just as she had been before? Was she wrong in wishing to 'pay it forward?'

    (11-22-2012, 09:56 PM)rie Wrote: Or else, why this level of emotional charge?

    Oh that's easy. The emotional charge comes from watching a single video of what goes on in a factory farm. You might try it and see! Wink One needn't have experience with torture to get an emotional charge from watching an entity get tortured.
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      • BrownEye
    Oceania Away

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    #34
    11-23-2012, 04:51 AM
    Monica, i think, pardon me Rie for speaking for you, was saying how is this constant bitching about something doing anything but creating strife? at least that's my feelings on it. from the start of the first meat thread i've felt only dread when you start another topic concerning meat. because i know all the meat eaters will only relish their meat eating more in defiance of your complaints and accusations. and this will cause more push against what you're trying to do. it will make the meat eaters feel guilt tripped to do something before they're ready to come to that on their own, and might delay that for them in their push for free choice and free will. i agree with you completely on the meat eating thing and you know it. i respect you tremendously as well for always defending animals and their rights, and i wish simple information touting would fix everything but it just won't. what i disagree with is the method to make a change. i know activists have a place in this world as well as other types. i just think your intensity rubs people the wrong way and causes a reaction that is opposite to what you and i want. i don't have all the answers, i just think you've started god knows how many of these threads. maybe sometimes change comes better when you stop fighting against something and instead focus on fighting FOR something. sorry to sound preachy. these are just my thoughts on the issue. i'm just reminded of what many spiritual teachers have said. what you focus on is what you give power.
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      • BrownEye, Monica, norral
    Monica (Offline)

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    #35
    11-23-2012, 07:19 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2012, 07:20 AM by Monica.)
    (11-23-2012, 04:51 AM)Oceania Wrote: Monica, i think, pardon me Rie for speaking for you, was saying how is this constant bitching about something doing anything but creating strife? at least that's my feelings on it. from the start of the first meat thread i've felt only dread when you start another topic concerning meat. because i know all the meat eaters will only relish their meat eating more in defiance of your complaints and accusations. and this will cause more push against what you're trying to do. it will make the meat eaters feel guilt tripped to do something before they're ready to come to that on their own, and might delay that for them in their push for free choice and free will. i agree with you completely on the meat eating thing and you know it. i respect you tremendously as well for always defending animals and their rights, and i wish simple information touting would fix everything but it just won't. what i disagree with is the method to make a change. i know activists have a place in this world as well as other types. i just think your intensity rubs people the wrong way and causes a reaction that is opposite to what you and i want. i don't have all the answers, i just think you've started god knows how many of these threads. maybe sometimes change comes better when you stop fighting against something and instead focus on fighting FOR something. sorry to sound preachy. these are just my thoughts on the issue. i'm just reminded of what many spiritual teachers have said. what you focus on is what you give power.

    Thanks for sharing, Oceania! I do appreciate your concerns.

    But, you must have me confused with someone else. Tongue I have started only 3 threads about eating animals:

    This one
    Burger or 18-Wheeler? Which is worse for the environment?
    Get Vegucated! <<== which has a grand total of 2 posts, by the way

    All 3 of these threads are very small.

    I did start a few threads about vegetarian recipes, but they aren't about eating animals!

    What happened was that the meat discussion was neatly contained in a single thread. But, the mods decided to lock it, so then new threads about meat started popping up all over the place! I guess they can't put the genie back into the bottle!

    I've participated in many - not all - of them, but I didn't start most of them.

    And again, no one is forced to read or participate in any discussion.

    I don't understand why you do something that you dread. If I dread seeing a bad movie, then I simply don't watch it. Why dread something and then do it anyway?
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      • Plenum
    Oceania Away

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    #36
    11-23-2012, 08:10 AM
    i don't read them. i've skipped the load of them. i came here for some reason now but you're right you didn't start them all. but even the one that you? started that clearly stated it was to be a meat fight free thread descended into just that. and you do participate in them a lot. i guess my ultimate point was that the fighting against something so intensely can actually make people cling to that just in opposition. it doesn't create an environment where people can drift toward the vegetarian lifestyle of their own accord they're so busy fighting against the one fighting against. that was my point, i don't mean this as some harsh criticism or accusation, and maybe my words weren't perfectly chosen. and i don't want to debate. i will exit this thread now. i just think there's different ways to go about things to not put people on the defensive. but what do i know? it was just a thought and i will leave it at that. peace out. keep doing what you think is right.
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      • Monica
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    #37
    11-23-2012, 09:44 AM
    (11-22-2012, 08:33 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Funny, from my perspective, you aren't understanding my points at all, and in fact don't even bother to respond to them (as I do yours). So I guess we can just call it even! Wink

    Misunderstanding IS the culprit to be sure, and another of the complexities of which I speak which must also be taken into consideration when trying to discern the whole rationale around this subject which perplexes you so.



    (11-22-2012, 08:33 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: You wonder why I took offense, then proceed to list numerous misconceptions about me, my views, and even whether my efforts are doing any good, to the point of saying I'm making it worse

    That would be my fault I'm afraid, in that I have a bad habit of using the word 'you' when I am speaking in generalizations. if you replace most of those incidences with the word 'one' or 'some' or 'others' you will see what I mean.



    (11-22-2012, 08:33 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: If you are truly interested in my views on that subject, you will find them if you search. I've already discussed that subject previously.

    I am now politely declining any further discussion with you. Have a good day, Shin'Ar!


    If I was not interested in your thoughts on the matter why would I bother to have made some of the elaborate attempts at addressing them as I just did, and have in the past?

    You are probably right in that we should avoid discussion I guess, as we seem to be incompatible in that regard on issues which you are emotionally charged.

    I concede to the higher priority of your well being and wish you well.

    Maybe one day these things which I have pointed you toward will suddenly click and you might recall it then as my being fully engaged and interested, as well as helpful.

    Good day to you Monica, and I mean that.

    I will try to sum up my thoughts without actually discussing with anyone in particular so as to avoid hurt feelings and personal insult being taken mistakenly.

    And I will try to make it very simple to avoid confusion and misinterpretation.

    First of all, I think that there is a very small portion of humanity which has an agenda of feeding their selfish desires. And such have a powerful influence and role in the ways of this world. They are literally the echelon of humanity in the sense that they control much of the human experience on this planet. And do so in a very devious and manipulative manner so as not to be challenged in ways that can actually burden their efforts.

    Secondly, much of how we act and react to social incidences is very much under their influence and manipulation. Rebellions and civil uprising and protest is often the result of such manipulation and orchestrated for reasons beneficial to their gain at our expense.

    This world in which we live is subject to many social ills which are the result of many differing cultures and ways of life that often clash and are incompatible. When such is exaggerated and also used against us as a tool for selfish gain, and we simply fall into line with such manipulation in total ignorance of its influences, the normal aspects of human incompatibilities are increased many times more.

    One of the greatest weapons that the 'system' will have in their arsenal is man's bias toward having things go their way, having their definitions of right and wrong justified and enforced/imposed, and becoming very sensitive to having their beliefs stepped on by another.

    Such sensitivity and bias opens the door to extremism and emotional dysfunction, such as we see in many incidences in this very community, as people attempt to put forth their own thoughts and opinions on matters that concern them, exaggerated greatly if those concerns are dear to heart.

    What happens is that we fall victim to the manipulation of selfish interests who now use our emotional distortions to their own gain. They pit us against each other, and they really have no interest in the actual issues themselves, and often switch back and forth from one to the other, just for the sake of keeping a problem alive so they can continue to use it for themselves.

    This truth should be very obvious right here, showing how quickly a simple discussion on diet choices which should be afforded to each of us according to our own tastes and free choices, can develop into a circumstance where common sense falls victim to emotional discharge.

    Such can be dismissed as making a mountain out of a mole hill, but doing so does not address the very real issue of how such ease of conflict could easily be used against us by any who would choose to apply a little manipulative cleverness.

    The fact that many of us do ignore such truth, and do dismiss such as 'hype' frenzy, is exactly why the 'system' is able to continue to get away with such treachery against humanity.

    Simply, our participation and tolerance of it, along with much total ignorance of it, enables it to continue in mass proportions to degrees where our entire world experience is a result of it in most of the 'civilized' world.

    So, is it wrong for people like Monica who has a good heart and feels for the suffering to react in her way?

    Not at all. Every action of compassion is a positive alteration of the distortion of negativity, and a vibration which enhances our planet and evolves humanity as a whole. I never visit any of my favorite haunts without leaving a small gift for the others who share those places with me, not just for their sake, but because I understand how positive vibrations are created in such actions and offerings which enchant the planet a little more each time.

    I commend and support every act or decency and compassion.

    And included in the definition of such is tolerance offered toward others to express themselves in this world according to their own views and opinions. Even though I may not agree with those views and practices, it is essential that I afford them the same freedom which I afford myself. This often involves a great deal of concession and compensation, and self sacrifice in many cases so that the many can benefit rather than the few.

    This does not mean that we should not stand up for what we believe, or speak out our thoughts on matters. It is in such sharing of thoughts and opinions that higher understanding is achieved and many social ills relieved and even alleviated. Sharing of information is the Divine Design of The All.

    But in doing so we must strive to remind ourselves that The All is not just 'I'. It is ALL of us. If we respond in a manner whereby we begin to expect our opinions to be accepted and acted upon according to our understanding and definition, we open the door to both, those who would use that opportunity to enrage and engage, as well as our own emotionally charged responses which can lead to acts of extremity.

    And this we see around the world in many circumstances.

    Right now, in the Middle East, we have two sides who both believe that they have a god-given right to claim a piece of the Earth as their own, and because it is a very emotional belief, it becomes extreme in observance and practice.

    And yet, even if it were possible for those two sides to manage to come to some agreement, it is easily hijacked by others who would not be in favor of such an agreement and will use those emotions to manipulatively manage a continuance of the argument.

    Suggesting that such comparison has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of meat eating vs. vegetarianism, or compassion toward the suffering of animals, simply contributes to the same ignorance which is just another tool in that arsenal of the elites and the terrorists.

    For those which cannot see the comparison, or deliberately choose to ignore it because they do not want to bother with such complex issues, I point out that such ignorance and tolerance simply plays right into the overall problem. And that is my most vital point. We cannot solve the problem of headaches by beating our heads on a brick wall.

    Until we begin to address the issue of the wall being brick, and that methods are taken by many to cause the head beating against it, the headaches will continue, from one extreme or another.

    But if mankind suddenly begins to gnaw at the root, the whole plant will become weakened and actual beneficial changes will begin to occur, and manipulations will become much more difficult.

    I say, be aware, be honest, be calculating and intelligent, and above all, be understanding of the whole rather than imposing.

    I say there is much more to consider if we really care about making a difference.

    Take up your pickets if you choose, but when you do that in full knowledge that you are actually serving the agenda of a much more powerful force, and are probably even damaging the very cause you are attempting to battle, do so knowing that the positive vibrations you seek are not being realized to the degree which they would if you acted in understanding and knowledge instead.

    And if all you really care about is having the loudest voice and making others hear you, than how are you any better than those whom you rebel against?

    Understanding!

    Balance!

    Extremism!

    Take those three factors into account in all that you do and you will begin to see results that make a difference for the All.
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      • norral
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    #38
    11-23-2012, 10:43 AM
    "i concede to the higher priority of your well being " HeartHeartHeart

      •
    Monica (Offline)

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    #39
    11-23-2012, 04:55 PM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2012, 05:32 PM by Monica.)
    (11-23-2012, 08:10 AM)Oceania Wrote: i don't read them. i've skipped the load of them. i came here for some reason now but you're right you didn't start them all. but even the one that you? started that clearly stated it was to be a meat fight free thread descended into just that. and you do participate in them a lot. i guess my ultimate point was that the fighting against something so intensely can actually make people cling to that just in opposition. it doesn't create an environment where people can drift toward the vegetarian lifestyle of their own accord they're so busy fighting against the one fighting against. that was my point, i don't mean this as some harsh criticism or accusation, and maybe my words weren't perfectly chosen. and i don't want to debate. i will exit this thread now. i just think there's different ways to go about things to not put people on the defensive. but what do i know? it was just a thought and i will leave it at that. peace out. keep doing what you think is right.

    I appreciate your thoughts, Oceania! I don't believe anyone can "put someone on the defensive." If the person feels defensive by an academic/philosophical discussion, then perhaps they might want to ask themselves why they feel that way. (For the record, I didn't feel defensive when I replied to Shin'Ar...just annoyed at the layers of misunderstandings.)

    Regarding people just "drift towards the vegetarian lifestyle of their own accord" I wonder how much longer we'd have had slavery in this country, if the slave 'owners' had been allowed to "drift towards a slave-free lifestyle of their own accord."

    Whenever there is oppression, there will be those working to champion the oppressed. Later, when the oppressed have been freed, those who worked for that freedom are considered heroes and champions. I have no interest in being a hero or champion and most of my work is done anonymously. My point is that, while 'freedom fighters' work to champion the oppressed, they usually aren't liked.

    But, to them, their work is more important than being liked.

    I'm not the only vegetarian on this forum. I've just hung in there the most. I don't consider it a battle. I consider it simply being true to my own values and sharing my own opinions, just as all the other members on this forum do.

    If others consider it a 'battle' or dislike the discussion for whatever reason, then my answer is still the same: Don't participate. No one is being forced to click on any thread. There are lots of threads I never even look at.
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      • BrownEye
    BrownEye Away

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    #40
    11-23-2012, 10:55 PM
    Monday, two Santa Rosa County men, one of them a neighbor, were charged with stealing the bird and using a bow and arrow to kill it.

      •
    Shin'Ar

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    #41
    11-24-2012, 10:48 AM
    (11-23-2012, 04:55 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: But, to them, their work is more important than being liked.


    And if we are able to understand that each side will say the same thing, then there is where we find the dilemma. Especially when their work/belief becomes so important that each side is willing to die and kill.

    The dynamic factors involved cannot be simply dismissed for the sake of acting out anyway, that is to say, IF one really wants to acquire some sort of success or benefit.

    Success and worthiness is not measured in the mere action simply because that is what someone believes with all their heart; it is measured in the balance between the results and consequences.

    For example,

    You have two choices which have been offered to you.

    You can save one cow by following Action A, or you can save a million cows by following Action B.

    Which you you choose?

    Of course most will say let us save a million cows.

    But, then a factor is added into the dynamic which reveals that in order to save one cow then one cockroach will die, or to save a million cows one man's two young children will starve to death until social assistance is able to resupply his community with another source of food.

    Now, when the dynamic factors are considered, we must ask ourselves some very consequential questions.

    Most will choose to sacrifice a cockroach.

    But there are both fundamental extremists, and manipulative elites, who would quickly sacrifice two humans for a million cows.

    And if you choose to dismiss this logic by suggesting it is absurdity, i suggest that you are unaware of the sanctity of the cow in the Hindu religion.

    Try going to a Hindu city and kicking a cow out of your way.

    The absurdity is not in the degree of emotional attachment one has to their 'work'.

    The absurdity is in the inability, deliberate or not, to make a correlation between the dynamic factors of one fundamental belief with another.

    It is NOT a matter of which is right, or which has the right.

    It is a matter of balancing the consequential severity, by understanding the full scope of the dynamics involved.

    Another example-

    It is one thing for the Arab to say that God has given them the Land of Jerusalem to be their Holy Land, or for the Jews to say that God has promised them the land of Milk and Honey.

    This is one 'work' in direct argument with another and both have claim by their own emotional attachment, IF each deliberately ignores the full context of all of the dynamic factoring involved.

    Why do I say this?

    Because it is another factor altogether to say that no one individual has the right to lay claim to any position on a planet that does not belong to them alone.

    But you will not hear either side ever allude to such thought process because it would instantly render their own claims absurd.

    And even though such truth is absolute and obvious, if one were to attempt a peace process with such clear and unambiguous discipline of reasoning, extreme aspects of each claim would deliberate to silence your obvious truth quickly, which would be quickly welcomed by all those who really do not want truth invading their efforts.

    And so we have the dilemma of one cow or a million, and the many who would much rather win their cause/perform their 'work', at the expense of the discernment of dynamic factors/balance.

    Mercy, compassion, and even justice, cannot be separated from the overall dynamics of a situation in order to appease one view or belief/work over another. And the consequences of one side winning over the other cannot be separated from the sacrifices which may be necessary for such a victory.

    Far too often the victor is the one with the biggest gun/loudest voice/most opportunity, and far too often these are not the ones who actually suffer the greatest consequences to achieve their goal.

    So do you want to save a million chickens, or will one alone satisfy your 'work'/belief?

    If you can answer that question, without concern or regard for the dynamics involved in achieving either, then you are an extreme fundamentalist, regardless of the consequences of your 'work' or fundamental view.

    If you refuse to answer that question without considering the full context of all involved, then you are realizing all that I have tried to explain in the posts above.

    By the way, I am using Monica's quotes here for their pertinence, not in expectation of response from her, or as though addressing her in particular. I do not want her to think I am trying to provoke response.

    I am simply showing interest in the topic, and adding my thought processes to the discussion.

    The scales of balance are distorted by the degree of individual/personal/emotional interest involved.

    The Peacemakers hands are bound by the actions of the fundamentalists who do not want peace, but desire only that their 'work' does not have to suffer compensation to any degree.
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      • norral
    Monica (Offline)

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    #42
    11-24-2012, 11:20 PM (This post was last modified: 11-25-2012, 02:33 AM by Monica.)
    Shin'Ar, the meat threads have been mostly about general principles. What you are describing is specific situations.

    There's a world of difference. Among Law of One students, it's a given that every choice affects other-selves, and that we cannot dictate rules about what to do in specific situations. That's where personal guidance comes in. That's why the 'ethical dilemma scenarios' you describe haven't been part of the conversation.

    Also, our community doesn't really appeal to extreme fundamentalists.

    In any given situation, our choices (in my opinion) should be based on 2 things:

    1. The principles we have chosen to live by (according to our chosen path; ie., STS or STO)

    and

    2. Our personal guidance in that particular moment

    They won't conflict. If they do, then we should probably question whether we are hearing our guidance correctly, as personal guidance should never go against our principles. (In other words, if one believe their guidance is telling them to murder someone, then they might want to question where that guidance is coming from.)

    If we act according to our personal guidance and according to the general principles of our chosen path, and in so doing we inadvertently cause some catalyst for someone else, then that isn't our concern. Our sincere, honest action will have been integrated into the fabric of the Universe.

    If, however, we act in opposition to our guidance and the ethical principles of our path, and that choice leads to catalyst for someone else, then we've just incurred karma.

    The discussions have been about general principles. It is up to us to apply those principles in any given situation, tempered with our own personal guidance.

    The general principles applicable to 4D harvestability have to do with love/compassion/forgiveness/peace. That is all that's required in most instances. Wanderers concurrently learning 5D lessons may also have the task of applying wisdom. But that won't replace the 4D principles; it will only enhance them.

    Thus, over-analyzing Situation A or Situation B serves no purpose in the context of the principles of compassion in regards to our younger 2D brethren, other than as an academic exercise.

      •
    Shin'Ar

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    #43
    11-25-2012, 08:52 PM
    (11-24-2012, 11:20 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Shin'Ar, the meat threads have been mostly about general principles. What you are describing is specific situations...


    Thus, over-analyzing Situation A or Situation B serves no purpose in the context of the principles of compassion in regards to our younger 2D brethren, other than as an academic exercise.


    Dearest Monica,

    We all love you so much for your caring soul. Your love is never to be questioned nor judged. If only those who bring negativity into our world could be infected and altered by your touch.

    Carry on!

    Whether or not you can understand the things I attempt to share is not detrimental to your character and the expression of it, nor the evolution of it.

    Regarding the principles of compassion, as you put it, I have no disagreement with your expressing your own in your way, except that, in my understanding, you are participating in a greater experience which is not complimentary to your cause.

    Whereas you could be accomplishing so much more if you could only understand the over analyzing.

    However you are right in that the eggs do not get gathered if all of the collectors do nothing except debate which hen lays the better eggs.

    If one who has no concern for that always gathers fragile eggs from a hen that only lays fragile eggs, then at least there are fragile eggs to be fried.

    It is a greater good when one of those collectors is able to discern which hen lays the better eggs and is able to acquire those. But that does not take from the effort of the one who still collects the fragile eggs every day.

    Each are part of the system, but only one manages to achieve a greater good through the discernment/analyzing of the specifics which you believe to serve no purpose.

    We shall agree to disagree.
    [+] The following 1 member thanked thanked for this post:1 member thanked for this post
      • reeay
    Monica (Offline)

    Account Closed
    Posts: 7,043
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    #44
    11-25-2012, 11:01 PM (This post was last modified: 11-25-2012, 11:04 PM by Monica.)
    (11-25-2012, 08:52 PM)ShinAr Wrote: Dearest Monica,

    We all love you so much for your caring soul. Your love is never to be questioned nor judged. If only those who bring negativity into our world could be infected and altered by your touch.

    Thank you

    (11-25-2012, 08:52 PM)ShinAr Wrote: Whether or not you can understand the things I attempt to share is not detrimental to your character and the expression of it, nor the evolution of it.

    You seem to be assuming I don't understand. You are mistaken. I understand perfectly what you've been saying all along. I just haven't been replying in the way that you apparently think I should, because I think your concerns are misplaced, and you've made a lot of assumptions about my choices and actions. You do not know me. You know only a tiny piece of the entity that is me. It isn't your place to judge the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of anything I do. Same with other activists, whether for animals, starving children, or whatever.

    (11-25-2012, 08:52 PM)ShinAr Wrote: Regarding the principles of compassion, as you put it, I have no disagreement with your expressing your own in your way, except that, in my understanding, you are participating in a greater experience which is not complimentary to your cause.

    Your words show that you misunderstand the nature of my 'cause.'

    (11-25-2012, 08:52 PM)ShinAr Wrote: Whereas you could be accomplishing so much more if you could only understand the over analyzing.

    I perceive you as over-analyzing, with your elaborate fictitious scenarios that have no relevance to the conversation, in my opinion.

    So you perceive me as over-analyzing. Ah well then, it is what it is.

    I won't be replying to your posts anymore, Shin'Ar. Nothing personal, but I see no point.

    (11-25-2012, 08:52 PM)ShinAr Wrote: We shall agree to disagree.

    Yes indeed. Blessings to you!

      •
    Shin'Ar

    Guest
     
    #45
    11-26-2012, 08:27 AM
    (11-25-2012, 11:01 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I perceive you as over-analyzing, with your elaborate fictitious scenarios that have no relevance to the conversation, in my opinion.

    So you perceive me as over-analyzing. Ah well then, it is what it is.

    No need to reply Monica, and really no need to say that you are not going to reply either.

    But are you arguing your own words above here?

    First you state that I am over-analyzing, and the next sentence seems to reply as though I said that to you, when all that I have stated is the exact opposite, and that your lack of analyzing is our problem.

    I am sorry but I am confused there.

    Anyway I do see what our difference is. You make it perfectly clear where you state that my concerns are based in fiction.

    That you do not see such things as true threats is exactly why you do not agree with my assessment of this dilemma.

    I do wish you had made that clear a long time ago and I would not have bothered reaching out to you for as long as I have on the matter.

    Anyway, peace to you and all that you cherish.

      •
    BrownEye Away

    Positive Deviant
    Posts: 3,446
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    Joined: Jun 2009
    #46
    11-27-2012, 04:22 PM
    One of the reasons I do not like to celebrate holidays....

      •
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