Abrupt vs gradual harvest

[Sagittarius]

Zenmaster what do you mean by "It sounds like an infringement of the other groups to have the transplants "speak" for the whole planet, which apparently they could do" ?

Functions according to the law of squares, correct? They share a subcollective mind. If they desire the 4D- info and assistance, as apparently is their tendency, that would necessarily involve the other groups at some point. (The 4D+ are also necessarily kept out to preserve free will.)

Are you talking about the fact that if the transplants from a planet further into the 3d cycle penetrate the forgetting they could break free will of the natives?

They are much more polarized, as a group due to 37,000 more years of 3D experience. Nothing really to do with polarizing that far (past forgetting), though.

So free will on this planet is basically to negate any bias towards either 4d+ or 4d- influence and to set everyone at square one so to speak?

Giving the transplants the opportunity on even ground to choose there influence again without the 4d- negative bias of there previous collective mind?

[zenmaster]

Zenmaster what do you mean by "It sounds like an infringement of the other groups to have the transplants "speak" for the whole planet, which apparently they could do" ?

Functions according to the law of squares, correct? They share a subcollective mind. If they desire the 4D- info and assistance, as apparently is their tendency, that would necessarily involve the other groups at some point. (The 4D+ are also necessarily kept out to preserve free will.)

Are you talking about the fact that if the transplants from a planet further into the 3d cycle penetrate the forgetting they could break free will of the natives?

They are much more polarized, as a group due to 37,000 more years of 3D experience. Nothing really to do with polarizing that far (past forgetting), though.

So free will on this planet is basically to negate any bias towards either 4d+ or 4d- influence and to set everyone at square one so to speak?

Free will exists regardless. But the 4D+ and 4D- info and assistance is a response to a calling which functions by the "law of squares". The calling is what would be a function of their polarity (which is related to their seniority) and pre-existing bias developed thousands of years before time on Earth. What they could do with assistance could jeopardize the developmental process of the other groups here - like freely choosing to be slaves to the "empire" (as Ra says, it beggars their ability to enumerate the conditions we accept). That situation would normally be fine wrt to calling, but they were artificially introduced here - which creates a number of problems. Some of the problems, presumably, are still attempting to be addressed by the massive amount of wanderers here now.

Giving the transplants the opportunity on even ground to choose there influence again without the 4d- negative bias of there previous collective mind?

As far as I can tell, as a 3D native here, you'd need rather high polarization in either direction in order to have direct contact. I'm not sure the Martian "social complex" had a 4D- bias, so much as a social-framework bias which might willingly welcome concepts promoted and exploited by the Orions.
So in short, it would be a "bad thing" to lift the quarantine - because it would simply mean a vote.

[Patrick]

...(as Ra says, it beggars their ability to enumerate the conditions we accept)...

Yes, there is this thread on this subject: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4656

[Sagittarius]

Zenmaster what do you mean by "It sounds like an infringement of the other groups to have the transplants "speak" for the whole planet, which apparently they could do" ?

Functions according to the law of squares, correct? They share a subcollective mind. If they desire the 4D- info and assistance, as apparently is their tendency, that would necessarily involve the other groups at some point. (The 4D+ are also necessarily kept out to preserve free will.)

Are you talking about the fact that if the transplants from a planet further into the 3d cycle penetrate the forgetting they could break free will of the natives?

They are much more polarized, as a group due to 37,000 more years of 3D experience. Nothing really to do with polarizing that far (past forgetting), though.

So free will on this planet is basically to negate any bias towards either 4d+ or 4d- influence and to set everyone at square one so to speak?

Free will exists regardless. But the 4D+ and 4D- info and assistance is a response to a calling which functions by the "law of squares". The calling is what would be a function of their polarity (which is related to their seniority) and pre-existing bias developed thousands of years before time on Earth. What they could do with assistance could jeopardize the developmental process of the other groups here - like freely choosing to be slaves to the "empire" (as Ra says, it beggars their ability to enumerate the conditions we accept). That situation would normally be fine wrt to calling, but they were artificially introduced here - which creates a number of problems. Some of the problems, presumably, are still attempting to be addressed by the massive amount of wanderers here now.

Giving the transplants the opportunity on even ground to choose there influence again without the 4d- negative bias of there previous collective mind?

As far as I can tell, as a 3D native here, you'd need rather high polarization in either direction in order to have direct contact. I'm not sure the Martian "social complex" had a 4D- bias, so much as a social-framework bias which might willingly welcome concepts promoted and exploited by the Orions.
So in short, it would be a "bad thing" to lift the quarantine - because it would simply mean a vote.

Thanks Zen makes more sense now.

[zenmaster]

...(as Ra says, it beggars their ability to enumerate the conditions we accept)...

Yes, there is this thread on this subject: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4656

Read the thread (again). I don't see how it specifically relates to the subject?

[Patrick]

...(as Ra says, it beggars their ability to enumerate the conditions we accept)...

Yes, there is this thread on this subject: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4656

Read the thread (again). I don't see how it specifically relates to the subject?

In my opinion "we cannot plumb the depths of the distortion complexes which infect your peoples" is directly related to "At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them".

[zenmaster]

...(as Ra says, it beggars their ability to enumerate the conditions we accept)...

Yes, there is this thread on this subject: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4656

Read the thread (again). I don't see how it specifically relates to the subject?

In my opinion "we cannot plumb the depths of the distortion complexes which infect your peoples" is directly related to "At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them".

How's that?

[Patrick]

In my opinion "we cannot plumb the depths of the distortion complexes which infect your peoples" is directly related to "At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them".

How's that?

Because I believe that the "distortion complexes which infect" us is the cause of our currently rampant "condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery".

[zenmaster]

In my opinion "we cannot plumb the depths of the distortion complexes which infect your peoples" is directly related to "At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them".

How's that?

Because I believe that the "distortion complexes which infect" us is the cause of our currently rampant "condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery".

I'm not sure I'm following. "distortions" mean sort of unique expressions of unity or oneness, albeit mostly unconscious here. How else could the people here express anything but through distortions and therefore how would there be any other "cause"?

[Patrick]

In my opinion "we cannot plumb the depths of the distortion complexes which infect your peoples" is directly related to "At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them".

How's that?

Because I believe that the "distortion complexes which infect" us is the cause of our currently rampant "condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery".

I'm not sure I'm following. "distortions" mean sort of unique expressions of unity or oneness, albeit mostly unconscious here. How else could the people here express anything but through distortions and therefore how would there be any other "cause"?

I know that everything is a distortion. But my focus is on the word "infect" (Synonyms of infect: contaminate - taint - pollute).

I believe that the races of this planet are caught in a knot of complex distortions that are out of the ordinary for a veiled 3d environment.

[zenmaster]

I believe that the races of this planet are caught in a knot of complex distortions that are out of the ordinary for a veiled 3d environment.

What other veiled, 3d environments are you familiar with to compare? What examples of complex distortions in particular can you provide?

[hogey11]

Why can't Patrick 'know' this via his higher self? For all we know, Patrick is a 6D wanderer and has experienced all sorts of different 3D environments. While the exact details would be unknown to him due to the veil, the 'knowing' might still be available when the channels are open. I don't think this is impossible for someone like Patrick, as I personally hold him in great regard for his spirit and personality that is shown on this board.

Just throwing that out there. If we restrain ourselves to only what Ra or Q'uo has said for knowledge, how are we any better than the Egyptians Ra first encountered that distorted the teachings in the first place?

[zenmaster]

Why can't Patrick 'know' this via his higher self?

Who says he can't know? Why do you think this is in question?

For all we know, Patrick is a 6D wanderer and has experienced all sorts of different 3D environments. While the exact details would be unknown to him due to the veil, the 'knowing' might still be available when the channels are open. I don't think this is impossible for someone like Patrick, as I personally hold him in great regard for his spirit and personality that is shown on this board.

I'm asking honest questions, and you're talking about a person's integrity which has nothing at all to do with the questions.

Just throwing that out there. If we restrain ourselves to only what Ra or Q'uo has said for knowledge, how are we any better than the Egyptians Ra first encountered that distorted the teachings in the first place?

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China now?

[hogey11]

Just as you are only asking 'questions', I am only bringing up possible answers. From my reading of things, I felt like Patrick was probably speaking from intuition and from a place of inner knowledge, so I offered that possibility on his behalf. The burden of proof in these types of situations is unnecessary. It only projects layers of elitism, imo.

[zenmaster]

Just as you are only asking 'questions', I am only bringing up possible answers. From my reading of things, I felt like Patrick was probably speaking from intuition and from a place of inner knowledge, so I offered that possibility on his behalf. The burden of proof in these types of situations is unnecessary. It only projects layers of elitism, imo.

Not sure what the answers are addressing with respect to the questions. Also, keeping that "inner knowledge" tacit does not further learning. Why bring it up if the intention all along was to refuse to share the experience?

[hogey11]

Why bring it up if the intention all along was to refuse to share the experience?

That charge might be a bit premature as we can't know whether Patrick has more to say or not. I think Patrick shared what his perception is. I brought up the things I did because what builds our perceptions is often things we don't actively 'know', but rather things we intuit. When we are constantly challenged to produce the source of this knowledge, at times it can be intimidating because often we ourselves don't know. It's just what we feel.

Maybe other's don't have these experiences either, but in my own experience, I often know things that I shouldn't know. My inclination is to discredit myself, but i've learnt that only means i am relying purely on otherselves for my understanding, which i'm not totally comfortable with either...

[Patrick]

I believe that the races of this planet are caught in a knot of complex distortions that are out of the ordinary for a veiled 3d environment.

What other veiled, 3d environments are you familiar with to compare?

None at this time. Except maybe a bit of what happened on Venus, Mars and Maldeck.

What examples of complex distortions in particular can you provide?

I believe that behind the concept of money, there is a complex of distortions that leads to and supports it. It's like we are purposefully prevented from becoming aware of spiritual concepts without significant distortions being included from somewhere. I believe we are kept willing slaves beyond the span of a 3d incarnation.

We are injected (programmed, infected) with this complex of distortions in a way that keeps us spiritually retarded and in veiled 3d for longer than necessary to make the Choice. We are kept balancing from one pole to the other in such a way that we do not become harvestable.

[Patrick]

Why can't Patrick 'know' this via his higher self?...

Very kind post my friend. Thank you.

[zenmaster]

What examples of complex distortions in particular can you provide?

I believe that behind the concept of money, there is a complex of distortions that leads to and supports it. It's like we are purposefully prevented from becoming aware of spiritual concepts without significant distortions being included from somewhere.

A concept is a "distortion". The densities attempt to refine distortion. How would you have the money concept practically replaced and with what?

[Patrick]

What examples of complex distortions in particular can you provide?

I believe that behind the concept of money, there is a complex of distortions that leads to and supports it. It's like we are purposefully prevented from becoming aware of spiritual concepts without significant distortions being included from somewhere.

A concept is a "distortion". The densities attempt to refine distortion. How would you have the money concept practically replaced and with what?

The succinct answer is: I would like to experience a resource-based economy on this planet within this incarnation.

http://zeitgeist-info.com/essay/2011/03/...d-economy/
http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/blo...sition-rbe

[Parsons]

I am merely relaying interesting quotes which I had missed previously which I see as evidence towards an abrupt switch to 4th density in my latest read-through of the LOO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaLPY_oTz...playnext=8

[...]The lessons of third density are predestined by the very nature of the vibratory rates experienced during this particular density and by the nature of the quantum jump to the vibratory experiences of fourth density.

[Vasistha]

Here is my take on this after countless of readings of the LOO.

Quotes supposing an abrupt transition:

40.10 Questioner: I am assuming that this vibratory increase began about twenty to thirty years ago. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. The first harbingers of this were approximately forty-five of your years ago, the energies vibrating more intensely through the forty-year period preceding the final movement of vibratory matter, shall we say, through the quantum leap, as you would call it.

6.18 Questioner: After this period of thirty years (1981) I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

63.13 Questioner: Now these entities incarnate into a third-density vibratory body. I am trying to understand how this transition takes place from third to fourth-density. I will take the example of one of these entities of which we are speaking who is now in a third-density body. He will grow older and then will it be necessary that he die from the third-density physical body and reincarnate in a fourth-density body for that transition?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are those incarnating with what you may call a double body in activation. This is due to the necessity for manifesting the double body.

This transitional body is one which will be able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

As the green-ray cycle or the density of love and understanding begins to take shape the yellow-ray plane or Earth which you now enjoy in your dance will cease to be inhabited for some period of your space/time as the space/time necessary for fourth-density entities to learn their ability to shield their density from that of third is learned. After this period there will come a time when third density may again cycle on the yellow-ray sphere.

63.15 Questioner: Would the purpose in transitioning to Earth prior to the complete changeover then be for the experience to be gained here before the harvesting process?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. These entities are not Wanderers in the sense that this planetary sphere is their fourth-density home planet. However, the experience of this service is earned only by those harvested third-density entities which have demonstrated a great deal of orientation towards service to others. It is a privilege to be allowed this early an incarnation as there is much experiential catalyst in service to other-selves at this harvesting.

63.32 Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth-density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?

Ra: I am Ra.

To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third density.

50.5 [speaking of Carla pre-incarnation choices] The incarnation was understood to be one which would take place at harvest.

Quote against an abrupt change:

40.8 Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth-density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work. However, the third-density climate of planetary consciousness is retarding the process. At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.

My own interpretation:

At some time in the very near future, full activation of 4D will be complete, and the energy is going to be full green ray. Then the Yellow ray of this planet is going in potentation (desactivated). This will leave a planet where 1D-2D and 4D life is possible. Our 3D body is not going to withstand this.

Because of the need of 4D entity to not infringe on the free will of 3D entities and because the cycle for 3D is ended, all 3D entities are going to be 'removed' from this planet, what is called the 'death process' and undergoes the 'harvest' process guarded by the guardians.

Those with the transitional body/dual body activated; which are those that already made harvest from others planets and are incarnated here as a type of '4D wanderer' will be the only one left here. As they have a certain type of 4D body, they will "survive" the shift. By the means of reproduction, they will give birth to a new kind, the 4D physical vehicle.

From there; those harvested after death, and those harvested in the inner plane of Earth (astral), will be able to reincarnate via the incarnation system to the 4D Earth.

After a while, once those new 4D entities have learned the way to be "invisible" to 3D, the 3D sphere will be reactivated, and life on 3D will be able to start again for another cycle.

The wanderers from higher density (5D,6D) go home just before or at the time of this 'shift'.

Ra does try to remind everyone that death is nothing more than blinking your eyes...

it is misleading to speak of gains and losses when dealing with the subject of the cycle’s ending and the green-ray cycle beginning upon your sphere. It is to be kept in the forefront of the faculties of intelligence that there is one creation in which there is no loss. There are progressive cycles for experiential use by entities.

"I know I am deathless. No doubt I have died myself ten thousand times before. I laugh at what you call dissolution, and I know the amplitude of time." —Walt Whitman

[Patrick]

“A resource-based economy is a society without money, barter or trade, with the awareness that Humanity is One family and where technology, science and spirituality is used to it’s fullest to develop and manage the planet’s resources to provide abundance for everyone in the most sustainable way.”

Best definition of an RBE ever.

[zenmaster]

At some time in the very near future, full activation of 4D will be complete, and the energy is going to be full green ray. Then the Yellow ray of this planet is going in potentation (desactivated). This will leave a planet where 1D-2D and 4D life is possible. Our 3D body is not going to withstand this.

And if that point is open-ended as you are imagining, it's "gradual". So no real difference between "abrupt" and "gradual" after all.

---

“A resource-based economy is a society without money, barter or trade, with the awareness that Humanity is One family and where technology, science and spirituality is used to it’s fullest to develop and manage the planet’s resources to provide abundance for everyone in the most sustainable way.”

Best definition of an RBE ever.

Social cooperation is not really the core requirement, but predicated on a different type of awareness which is much more able to evaluate worth and needs.

[vilst3r]

Man lots of complicated replies for me to even bother reading lol. Anyway I'm leaning more towards a gradual harvest hopefully, it seems completely out of my view for the harvest to occur without people awakening before 21st of December, which seems ridicolous for people to wake up the next day and simply experience oneness. Hopefully this is a gradual harvest, I'm really enjoying the experiences given behind the veil.

[Vasistha]

At some time in the very near future, full activation of 4D will be complete, and the energy is going to be full green ray. Then the Yellow ray of this planet is going in potentation (desactivated). This will leave a planet where 1D-2D and 4D life is possible. Our 3D body is not going to withstand this.

And if that point is open-ended as you are imagining, it's "gradual". So no real difference between "abrupt" and "gradual" after all.

---

The only point that I was trying to make is that once the green ray cycle is fully activated, the yellow ray of this sphere will go in potentiation. This will be 'sudden', 'abrupt'. This is the quantum leap.

There can be no 'cohabitation' of those 2 cycles for the reasons outlined.

There will be no true 4D entities with 3D entities on Earth until 4D entities learn to shield themselves from 3D.

Its 'gradual' until the culminating date, and then it makes an 'abrupt' quantum leap. It started long time ago, and the full activation time is drawing closer.

[Patrick]

But the two cycles are already cohabitating right now, no ?

[Vasistha]

But the two cycles are already cohabitating right now, no ?

Is this a semantic issue?

This cannot be any more clear than this:

62.28 Questioner: Then as the fourth-density vibrations come in this means that the planet can support entities of fourth-density core vibration. Will the planet then still be first-density core vibration and will there be second-density entities on it with second-density vibrations, and will there be third-density entities on it with third-density vibrations?

Ra: You must see the Earth, as you call it, as being seven Earths. There is red, orange, yellow, and there will soon be a completed green color vibratory locus for fourth-density entities which they will call Earth. During the fourth-density experience, due to the lack of development of fourth-density entities, the third-density planetary sphere is not useful for habitation since the early fourth-density entity will not know precisely how to maintain the illusion that fourth density cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third density.

Thus in fourth density the red, orange, and green energy nexi of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with the blue and the indigo.

In fourth density, life on earth can only be sustained at the 1D, 2D and 4D level. Hence, at the start of 4D there is no cohabitation with 3D.

[Patrick]

When you look at a rainbow, the colors mixes at the edges, there is a transition, it's not from yellow and then abruptly to green.

Green ray has been interpenetrating with yellow ray since decades already, no ?

[Vasistha]

When you look at a rainbow, the colors mixes at the edges, there is a transition, it's not from yellow and then abruptly to green.

Green ray has been interpenetrating with yellow ray since decades already, no ?

And yet there is a point in the rainbow where the color is totally green and goes toward to the blue. This is the beginning of 4D until the color is all blue and 5D begins, etc...

1D: red strives toward orange
2D: orange strives toward yellow
3D: yellow strives toward green
4D: green strives toward blue
5D: blue strives toward indigo
6D: indigo strives toward violet
7D: violet strives toward the mystery