[split] "Some people eat animals, some don't."

[Jeremy]

They must have some sort of filter enabled where any animal thread emails them then the army shows up. It's quite agenda driven for sure. Some people eat animals, some don't. It should be as simple as that

[Diana]

They must have some sort of filter enabled where any animal thread emails them then the army shows up. It's quite agenda driven for sure. Some people eat animals,  some don't. It should be as simple as that

It is sad that you think this way. So I am part of "they," the army? I can't begin to express how unfortunate this is to me...for so many reasons.

It's not simple at all. Considered within the Law of One and the Ra Material, can you honestly say that eating animals, or in this case consuming their blood, is a simple subject?

[Monica]

They must have some sort of filter enabled where any animal thread emails them then the army shows up.

I think I'll post a thread with the title 'Killing People for Fun' and see who shows up.

Some people eat animals,  some don't. It should be as simple as that

Some people kill people,  some don't. It should be as simple as that

[Cosmo23]

I can't begin to express how unfortunate this is to me...for so many reasons.

It is indeed very unfortunate for you. While you're trying to do the right thing you're perceived as dogmatic and maybe even hateful... Its cool that you love animals, I appreciate this, but why not start loving the meat/blood eaters too?

[Diana]

I can't begin to express how unfortunate this is to me...for so many reasons.

It is indeed very unfortunate for you. While you're trying to do the right thing you're perceived as dogmatic and maybe even hateful... Its cool that you love animals, I appreciate this, but why not start loving the meat/blood eaters too?

Who says I don't love them? Do I have to agree with you in order to love you?

[Jeremy]

I can't find it so I'm not sure if it was Ra or another confederation member but it was something like whatever diet aids the seeker in seeking is the diet that's appropriate for them.

Just because I or others see the ingestion of meat as something necessary, why is it that hard to accept? This is one area where we choose to realize the killing of the animal or the sacrifice of the animal more appropriately, is for our benefit and we thank that animal for its sacrifice. I admittedly fail to give thanks as much as I could be but I dont consider it as abhorrent as you but I still accept your dedication to a meat free lifestyle.

[Monica]

I can't find it so I'm not sure if it was Ra or another confederation member but it was something like whatever diet aids the seeker in seeking is the diet that's appropriate for them.

Must've been some other source.

Just because I or others see the ingestion of meat as something necessary,  why is it that hard to accept? This is one area where we choose to realize the killing of the animal or the sacrifice of the animal more appropriately,  is for our benefit and we thank that animal for its sacrifice. I admittedly fail to give thanks  as much as I could be but I dont consider it as abhorrent as you but I still accept your dedication to a meat free lifestyle.

If someone chooses it themselves, it's a sacrifice.

If they have No choice, but are killed against their will, then that isn't sacrifice; they are victimized.

[Jeremy]

How do you know that though? Its spirit may be without awareness but you don't know how or why it was sent to evolve into a 2nd density entity.

[Monica]

How do you know that though? Its  spirit may be without awareness but you don't know how or why it was sent to evolve into a 2nd density entity.

The same could be said of any human murder victim. Does that make it ok to murder them?

[Cosmo23]

The same could be said of any human murder victim. Does that make it ok to murder them?

Remember the "forcing others"-thing? Ever noticed that your questions only leave yes/no which doesnt really leave an option at all? Its called suggestive question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestive_question

So your intentions are more than obvious...

[Minyatur]

Right now, someplace, somewhere, a whole planet and all of it's lifeforms were destroyed through a great deal of efforts.

*moment of silence*

[Minyatur]

Thanks all for the moment of silence.

[Monica]

The same could be said of any human murder victim. Does that make it ok to murder them?

Remember the "forcing others"-thing? Ever noticed that your questions only leave yes/no which doesnt really leave an option at all?

So you're intentions are more than obvious...

Firstly, you can never know my intentions. Secondly, asking people for clarification on their comments is valid conversation. Thirdly, even IF I had xyz 'intentions' that pales in comparison to harming innocent, sentient beings.

Whenever vegans talk about cruelty to animals, the standard response from meat-eaters is to start accusing the vegans of being controlling, etc. instead of actually looking at what they're doing.


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[Jeremy]

How do you know that though? Its  spirit may be without awareness but you don't know how or why it was sent to evolve into a 2nd density entity.

The same could be said of any human murder victim. Does that make it ok to murder them?

Which is also true and just as correct. We don't know how and why an incarnation was planned so to place subjective inferences based upon ones personal outlook on what "should" be right is wrought with bias and therefore invalid beyond ones own subjective interpretation.  

[Minyatur]

The same could be said of any human murder victim. Does that make it ok to murder them?

Remember the "forcing others"-thing? Ever noticed that your questions only leave yes/no which doesnt really leave an option at all?

So you're intentions are more than obvious...

Firstly, you can never know my intentions. Secondly, asking people for clarification on their comments is valid conversation. Thirdly, even IF I had xyz 'intentions' that pales in comparison to harming innocent, sentient beings.

Whenever vegans talk about cruelty to animals, the standard response from meat-eaters is to start accusing the vegans of being controlling, etc. instead of actually looking at what they're doing.

I doubt Nicholas is upset, I think he simply cares very much about your polarity as it seems very important for you.

[Diana]

High five to fellow vampires! Animal blood is strictly regulated around here, so things like blood pudding are pretty difficult to make. I usually just go with very rare steaks.

I really need to learn how to bow hunt. Then I could get everything fresh.

 Think of the suffering you would cause otherwise.  

This is the first controlling statement I have come across on this thread. 

I'm going to consider this statement and get back with you tomorrow. I have guests that showed up and I don't want to post without due attention to the accusation.

[Monica]

How do you know that though? Its  spirit may be without awareness but you don't know how or why it was sent to evolve into a 2nd density entity.

The same could be said of any human murder victim. Does that make it ok to murder them?

Which is also true and just as correct. We don't know how and why an incarnation was planned so to place subjective inferences based upon ones personal outlook on what "should" be right is wrought with bias and therefore invalid beyond ones own subjective interpretation.  

Are you willing to go so far as to say that it's ok to murder humans then? Hey, why not? Maybe they chose that experience, so we might as well help them!

[tamaryn]

I had a very close friend murdered. Cruely. And yes I did give it much consideration and reflection until I realised the diaspora of positive group catalyst that came out of her death. Most harcestable altruistic being i have ever met. I believe we choose the way we exit, precisely but without immediate understanding.

Let me ask you this , Monica.

Do you feel the animals incarnate against their will? Does not the choice of species go along with great suffering then? Do they not accept their birth/death circumstances? Does not great learning and awareness develop in them life after life, regardless of the circumstances of their death?

I think as far as reincarnation goes us humans have had very cruel experiences, none of which has even cocome close to damaging our essence. Have you never been murdered before?

[Jeremy]

How do you know that though? Its  spirit may be without awareness but you don't know how or why it was sent to evolve into a 2nd density entity.

The same could be said of any human murder victim. Does that make it ok to murder them?

Which is also true and just as correct. We don't know how and why an incarnation was planned so to place subjective inferences based upon ones personal outlook on what "should" be right is wrought with bias and therefore invalid beyond ones own subjective interpretation.  

Are you willing to go so far as to say that it's ok to murder humans then? Hey, why not? Maybe they chose that experience, so we might as well help them!

It's not for me to judge what is ok and what is not. It just is. I cannot base any type of decision on what was planned prior to incarnation therefore to claim something as right or wrong would infer bias upon my part 

[Minyatur]

I had a very close friend murdered. Cruely. And yes I did give it much consideration and reflection until I realised the diaspora of positive group catalyst that came out of her death. Most harcestable altruistic being i have ever met. I believe we choose the way we exit, precisely but without immediate understanding.

Let me ask you this , Monica.

Do you feel the animals incarnate against their will? Does not the choice of species go along with great suffering then? Do they not accept their birth/death circumstances? Does not great learning and awareness develop in them life after life, regardless of the circumstances of their death?

I think as far as reincarnation goes us humans have had very cruel experiences, none of which has even cocome close to damaging our essence. Have you never been murdered before?

Exactly this, it's all quantum resonance and attraction to incarnative experiences within the space/time illusion of time/space. 

Why would souls incarnate to be slaughtered as a complementary existence to those wanting to eat meat? Well that is the Love of the Creator to know Himself, all that happens is through the first distortion of free will, no one obligates anything to incarnate anywhere. That is why there is nothing that is not Love.

Many emerged in worlds without low-level free will such as ours because they did not need it so for their experience or pershaps did not want to face things this as far off the Original Thought as we do experience. This world is something we equally Created in all of it's aspects, even the darkest ones, as a mean to know ourselves as the Creator.

[Minyatur]

@Monica,

When I said you were equally reponsible for animal slaughters in the other thread, to which you kind of strongly disagreed, I meant it more in the sense that YOU did Create every meat eaters only to be exaspered in front of it all.

That is the very essence and nature of Creation, nothing is unlike you. Everything is you making you face the mirrors you need.

[Monica]

I had a very close friend murdered. Cruely. And yes I did give it much consideration and reflection until I realised the diaspora of positive group catalyst that came out of her death. Most harcestable altruistic being i have ever met. I believe we choose the way we exit, precisely but without immediate understanding.

Let me ask you this , Monica.

Do you feel the animals incarnate against their will? Does not the choice of species go along with great suffering then? Do they not accept their birth/death circumstances? Does not great learning and awareness develop in them life after life, regardless of the circumstances of their death?

I think as far as reincarnation goes us humans have had very cruel experiences, none of which has even cocome close to damaging our essence. Have you never been murdered before?

So sorry to hear about your friend!

I think we all choose our life experiences on some level. We've all murdered and we've all been murdered at various times.

But that isn't the point. The point is whether we, as (presumably) STO beings, should participate in what is generally regarded as STS behavior.

Yes, John Doe chose to get murdered. Does that mean it's ok for us to murder him?

That is the task of the STS entities. That is how they serve. Someone has to do the dirty work.

...

[Minyatur]

I had a very close friend murdered. Cruely. And yes I did give it much consideration and reflection until I realised the diaspora of positive group catalyst that came out of her death. Most harcestable altruistic being i have ever met. I believe we choose the way we exit, precisely but without immediate understanding.

Let me ask you this , Monica.

Do you feel the animals incarnate against their will? Does not the choice of species go along with great suffering then? Do they not accept their birth/death circumstances? Does not great learning and awareness develop in them life after life, regardless of the circumstances of their death?

I think as far as reincarnation goes us humans have had very cruel experiences, none of which has even cocome close to damaging our essence. Have you never been murdered before?

So sorry to hear about your friend!

I think we all choose our life experiences on some level. We've all murdered and we've all been murdered at various times.

But that isn't the point. The point is whether we, as (presumably) STO beings, should participate in what is generally regarded as STS behavior.

Yes, John Doe chose to get murdered. Does that mean it's ok for us to murder him?

That is the task of the STS entities. That is how they serve. Someone has to do the dirty work.

...

There's just One doing things to Himself.

[Monica]

It's not for me to judge what is ok and what is not. It just is. I cannot base any type of decision on what was planned prior to incarnation therefore to claim something as right or wrong would infer bias upon my part 

But we're not talking about judging the person who chose to be murdered.

We're talking about whether WE should actually do the murdering.

...

[Minyatur]

@Monica

If you ask yourself why I do this, being vegan is great, fine and well.

Diminishing the experiences of the Creator of the Creator as your very own other-selves, is lacking.

[Nicholas]

High five to fellow vampires! Animal blood is strictly regulated around here, so things like blood pudding are pretty difficult to make. I usually just go with very rare steaks.

I really need to learn how to bow hunt. Then I could get everything fresh.

 Think of the suffering you would cause otherwise.  

This is the first controlling statement I have come across on this thread. 

I'm going to consider this statement and get back with you tomorrow. I have guests that showed up and I don't want to post without due attention to the accusation.

Cool. I don't feel that I am accusing you of anything though Diana, merely expressing my subjective interpretation. I myself have made controlling statements and I perceived a reflection of that in your quote that I responded to. If you are accused here then so am I!

[Billy]

Is this planet not going 4th density positive?  If that is the case, as Ra indicates, does it not stand to reason that part of that transition would include the cessation of eating animals?  I just for the life of me cannot imagine a loving society killing and eating animals but perhaps I am wrong.  Perhaps there is a way to kill and eat an animal in a way which is respectful and does not abridge free will.  If there is, I sure haven't come across it and honestly, all the justifications I have read for eating animals fall short.  If am being judgmental, self serving or close minded feel free to point it out.

[Diana]

High five to fellow vampires! Animal blood is strictly regulated around here, so things like blood pudding are pretty difficult to make. I usually just go with very rare steaks.

I really need to learn how to bow hunt. Then I could get everything fresh.

 Think of the suffering you would cause otherwise.  

This is the first controlling statement I have come across on this thread. 

I'm going to consider this statement and get back with you tomorrow. I have guests that showed up and I don't want to post without due attention to the accusation.

Cool. I don't feel that I am accusing you of anything though Diana, merely expressing my subjective interpretation. I myself have made controlling statements and I perceived a reflection of that in your quote that I responded to. If you are accused here then so am I!

Since the thread was twice split, please see this post for my general response:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...#pid188274

[Minyatur]

Is this planet not going 4th density positive?  If that is the case, as Ra indicates, does it not stand to reason that part of that transition would include the cessation of eating animals?  I just for the life of me cannot imagine a loving society killing and eating animals but perhaps I am wrong.  Perhaps there is a way to kill and eat an animal in a way which is respectful and does not abridge free will.  If there is, I sure haven't come across it and honestly, all the justifications I have read for eating animals fall short.  If am being judgmental, self serving or close minded feel free to point it out.

Change is not a one time thing, it takes time and follows the slow evolution of consciousness else densities would be very short and there wouldn't be much meaning to spiritual evolution.

Each planet is unique in it's ways and reflect a different reality/aspect of the Creator which is equally as valid as any other. 

I do believe there has been many planets where killing animals for meat might not even have been thought of, even in 3rd density.

[AnthroHeart]

And people used to think that tomatoes were poisonous.