[split] "Some people eat animals, some don't."

[Monica]

They said themselves they gave it to inspire and that realizing that one doesn't understand is necessary for harvest to Fourth positive. I wasn't 'raised mainstream', I was just raised with a respect and gratitude for sustenance and it seems you only want to sidestep my philosophy.

You seem to be making this personal. It isn't personal to me at all. Why would I want to 'sidestep your philosophy'? That makes No sense to me at all. We're simply having a discussion and exchanging ideas.

That is fine, I've realized that really the catalyst here for me is that I need to accept you as you are without wanting to change you and I think I do now.

Ok I'm glad to hear you are resolving whatever issues are being triggered for you. For the record, you haven't triggered any issues for me at all.

I will, however, offer a theory as to our differences in experience and I would relate it to the way we each 'crystallize' differently. You enable your plants to have such an experience through your offerings and these are thoughts worth considering as I see myself administering to perhaps a different level or aspect of plants than you. Will consider further.

Well, if that were the case, then that would mean they'd be even more individuated and even less likely to want me to pluck them from the garden.

But the opposite is true: They grow even more prolifically the more I pick them. And this is true of the wild weeds too.

Here's an example: Awhile back, I got stung by a spider. (I picked up my cat and hugged him, and there was a spider clinging to his fur, who stung me, likely out of fear from being smooshed against my face.) So I searched my front yard for plantain (a remedy for spider bites).

I walked all around my front yard, and didn't see any plantain at all. I looked and looked and looked!

Finally, I was about to give up when I spotted a single, lone plantain plant! I gratefully harvested some of its leaves to make a poultice.

The next day, there were at least 20 plantain plants in my small front yard! All within plain sight! They were impossible to miss!

Not tiny seedlings that sprouted overnight, but large, mature plants!! (Each mature plant had both large and small leaves.)

Where did they come from?

What was even more interesting was they I didn't even need all those plantain leaves. I only needed a couple of leaves per day to treat the spider bite, for just a few days. I certainly didn't need 20 large plants!

Young plantain leaves are wonderful salad greens, incidentally.

...

[Aion]

I don't think I can really explain myself at this point so I'm not really going to try. I feel like I've said all that's relevant to my standpoint.

However, I do have one last question. If eating meat is inherently STS (do you still believe that?) AND has karmic repercussions, whyyy would Ra still suggest to Carla to eat meat without any mention of these apparent consequences? Why would they suggest something that she would clearly realize is harmful to other beings?

Not even just suggesting to do it once, but 'occasionally' in order to help keep her vital energy up. If it was so inherently negative why wouldn't Ra mention any of those consequences after or during their suggestion? It just doesn't add up to me. They do not express any of this emotional content that you are putting in to it. (Not saying that's wrong, just a difference I noticed.)

Why would Ra suggest to Carla to 'occasionally' not be STO?

[Matt1]

I do feel that this is some what of a crusade against people who do not follow the same dietary type. However i also feel that it will not be a fruitful discussion as no matter what logic or philosophy is used, be it for or against the eating of meat, it will be simply rejected for the favor of personal bias. Those who favor the eating of meat will find useful philosophy or sections of the material that will provide them with the understanding they desire and like wise those who favor veganism will be doing the same.

It doesn't mean one is ultimately correct and the other is wrong, its simply different opinion or views on the subject. If one wishes to be Vegan then all is well, if one wishes to eat meat then all is well. The only hopeful balance i believe that can be found in such a discussion is the acknowledgement and love of the unique points of view and catalyst we can offer each other, rather than a Conversion to a dietary bias. I have to say it does almost feel also like a Religious discussion with each party from different Religions unwilling to change or accept the personal views of the other.

I accept Veganism, can you accept and believe that people who eat meat can still be compassionate and vibrating at a 4th density level ?

[Matt1]

I would also add that being a Vegan or Vegetarian doesn't necessary make you sto , as this quote with wiki shows.

Towards the end of his life Adolf Hitler followed a vegetarian diet. It is not clear when he adopted it, since some accounts of his dietary habits prior to the Second World War indicate that he consumed meat as late as 1937. By 1938, Hitler's public image as a vegetarian was already being fostered and from 1942 he self-identified as a vegetarian. Personal accounts from people who knew Hitler and were familiar with his diet indicate that he did not consume meat as part of his diet during this period. Some modern day analysis has theorized that Hitler's vegetarianism may have been due to Richard Wagner's historical theories, or even a psychological reaction to his niece's death rather than a commitment to animal welfare, but these theories are contradicted by reports that he was often distressed by images of animal cruelty and suffering, as well as being an antivivisectionist.

[Jade]

As a vegan, I wholeheartedly accept others for being omnivores and don't see it as a war. There are a lot of posts on this forum and sure, people are "crusading" because they believe so strongly in their position. What ends up getting me involved in the posts is when people display hypocrisy (either side) and right now I see some repeated hypocrisy from the omnivores in the discussion.

I KNOW plants don't want to be eaten by communing with them myself. They are eaten because you want to eat them. You even said yourself that fruits are the only karmic-free food but then you try to justify eating plant life? It's so hypocritical.

This is your go-to argument, that eating plants is hypocritical when we say we don't want to consume sentient life. Firstly, rarely if ever do I kill a plant to consume it - most plants are harvested from and continue to grow/produce. Where the true hypocrisy and speciesism lies is how humans are okay with consuming certain animals (pigs, cows, chickens) but absolutely appalled at the idea of consuming or even hurting other animals, like their pets, or animals similar to their pets, like Cecil the Lion. Aion, would you eat a lion? Would you a cat? Would you eat a human? But you'd eat someone else's pig? This is where the hypocrisy lies in the discussion, IMO, and pointing the hypocrite finger I think you know is projection.

Matt, you seem very caught up on whether or not veganism is required for harvest. I would say no, obviously not. Personally, I don't make my decisions based on whether or not things will get me closer to harvest, my decisions are more nuanced than that. I do what feels right in my being. If eating meat feels right in your being, do it! In fact I know I'm in the minority but I would be happy to incarnate on Earth again, so if I get "swept up in the maelstrom" so be it. But I personally won't be swept up by contributing to the palpable horrors that we perpetrate upon our friends in this maelstrom, as far as I can take that pledge.

We've been conditioned to view the big three (again cows, pigs, chickens) purely as a food source. We don't see any other animals (save the occasional oddities like deer and turkey) as "food". Our true instinct is to nurture and protect them. When we are little we are forced to dissociate from the idea that we are eating cute little animals for our food. I hear more and more how parents have to lie to their children to get them to consume meat. A recent one: "My daughter recently said to me, 'mommy isn't it funny that there's two kinds of chickens, one that's the kind of animal, and one that we eat?'" And parents just allow kids to believe these lies because it makes life much easier. Most of us had a moment where our natural instinct as children (to NOT eat animals) is subverted and suppressed by, mostly likely a matriarch who cooks in the family, mom or grandma, but not that it matters who. People project a level of brainwashing onto vegans that can only be facilitated by a complete shutdown of the compassion in consumption circuitry at a young age. Another one: "My kid won't eat any meat but hotdogs, so he eats hotdogs at every meal!!" So completely disgusting junk animal waste product > no meat at all. This is how deep the "need" for meat has been implanted.

Do omnivores really think that our biological make up is so different from chimps/apes to change us into basically carnivores?

[Matt1]

I am not overly caught up in the Harvest aspect, however i do think its a useful one to discuss. If one does not need to go Vegan to graduate into 4th density and enjoys the eating of the meat, then why not just do it. Likewise i would happily incarnate again in 3rd density i don't have an issue being here.

I think all of these threads have displayed hypocrisy from the Vegan side and that is why i originally came into this thread to begin with, and the original thread. I don't believe Children have a natural instinct not to eat animals, if you give a Child something to eat and it tastes good i am pretty sure they're going to eat it lol. Unless they have been converted by parents into Veganism.

[Monica]

If eating meat is inherently STS (do you still believe that?)

Yes I do. Just as enslavement, dominating another being, infringing upon their free will, murder, rape, war, etc. are all inherently STS behaviors.

What I mean by that is that those behaviors offer ways for the initiator of said behaviors to polarize STS.

(Notice the key word initiator.)

At the same time, those actions also offer to the STO entity an opportunity to polarize in either direction, depending on their response to catalyst.

For example: Person A rapes and murders Person B. Person B now has a choice as to how they will respond. If Person B becomes embittered, and seeks revenge, and perpetuates the cycle of violence and hate, then they are now polarizing in the direction of STS. If, however, Person B chooses forgiveness, then they break the cycle of karma and polarize in the direction of STO. It can go either way.

Likewise, Person A might change their direction of polarity any time. They might go to prison and spend their time there reflecting and making amends, and thus start moving in the direction of STO. Or, they might continue to move deeper in the direction of controlling and harming others, thus continuing their progression in the direction of STS.

Both polarities have their purpose in the Grand Design. Both serve the Creator. But in terms of polarizing potential, they have different attributes.

The US judicial system, and  American society in general, is biased towards STO. Harming others is frowned up. Murderers are locked up and generally considered scumbags. If someone witnesses a crime, they are considered a hero if they stop the crime and rescue the victim. If they ignore the cries of the victim and go on their merry way, they can be prosecuted for 'criminal negligence' and/or 'callous disregard' in a court of law.  The system has its flaws of course, and is subject to corruption, but it's all structured with an STO bias, and any corruption is considered bad.

That pretty much sums it up. The only difference is that I am saying these principles apply to all sentient creatures, Not just humans.

We might not know for sure whether they are sentient, but I contend that having a face (implying the capacity to perceive one's reality from an individual perspective), a nervous system, and pain receptors are pretty good clues that they are either sentient or at least in the process of becoming sentient.

AND has karmic repercussions, whyyy would Ra still suggest to Carla to eat meat without any mention of these apparent consequences? Why would they suggest something that she would clearly realize is harmful to other beings?

Ra never gave advice unless explicitly asked, and even then, sometimes refused to answer questions directly. My speculation is that Ra knew that Carla had not yet awakened to the reality of animal suffering. She considered eating meat to be normal, and likely had not even questioned it at that time. Ra accepted her where she was at and didn't intrude in her unfolding process.

Had Don asked an entirely different question, such as "How does unnecessarily and callously killing a late 2D entity affect one's polarity?" then Ra would have given a completely different answer, surely.

But Don never asked that. Neither Don nor Carla ever even thought to ask such a question, most likely, or they would have asked it. Apparently, eating meat was 'normal' to them and wasn't something that was even being questioned yet.

Jim told me on the radio show that he was feeling inclined to move towards being a vegetarian. I don't know whether he followed through or not, but the point is that he told me that about 3 years ago - some 30 years after the Ra sessions! Maybe if they were communicating with Ra now, they would ask different questions. But the Material is based on what they thought to ask 35 years ago.

Not even just suggesting to do it once, but 'occasionally' in order to help keep her vital energy up. If it was so inherently negative why wouldn't Ra mention any of those consequences after or during their suggestion? It just doesn't add up to me. They do not express any of this emotional content that you are putting in to it. (Not saying that's wrong, just a difference I noticed.)

Why would Ra suggest to Carla to 'occasionally' not be STO?

Inherently doesn't mean that it's the same in each case. It means that it has a certain tendency or predisposition. Killing someone in a war is inherently STS too, and yet Ra explained that, in some cases, the soldier might polarize STO because he killed the other person in order to save his comrades, or because he truly believed that he was serving his country. On the other hand, if that man joined the infantry because he enjoyed killing people, and was using the military as an excuse to legally kill, then his actions would have the opposite effect. Intentions do play a role in determining the effect in terms of polarizing; ie. which direction the polarizing goes in.

Nevertheless, there is still an inherent predisposition towards STS, in the killing of an other being. In other words, it's easier to polarize STS than STO, with that particular action. The person would have to have a mighty strong intention to serve others, to override that predisposition. Just as feeding the homeless has a predisposition towards STO. Can one feed the homeless for selfish reasons? Certainly. But that doesn't take away from the inherent STO quality of charity, in general.

When Ra visited the Egyptians, did they tell them that slavery was wrong? We can only wonder. Slavery was, apparently, part of the Egyptians' normal lifestyle. Did they even question whether it was 'wrong' or not to enslave other humans?

There is no question that animals are enslaved right now, by the billions. It is slavery. Slavery is inherently STS. But because society considers it normal, most people, Carla and Don included, never even questioned it. Maybe Carla and Don questioned it later, but we see no evidence that they questioned it back in the early 80s at the time of the sessions.

83.12 Questioner: Then you say that there are no cases where those who are service-to-others oriented are using in any way techniques of enslavement that have grown as a result of the evolution of our social structures? Is this what you mean?
Ra: I am Ra. It was our understanding that your query concerned conditions before the veiling. There was no unconscious slavery, as you call this condition, at that period. At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them.

83.13 Questioner: Then for a service-to-others oriented entity at this time meditation upon the nature of these little-expected forms of slavery might be productive in polarization I would think. Am I correct?
Ra: I am Ra. You are quite correct.

87.7 Questioner: What is the environmental situation of this particular fifth-density negative entity, and how does he work with fourth-density negative in order to establish power and control; and what is his particular philosophy with respect to himself as Creator and his use of the first distortion and the extension of this use of the first distortion to the fourth-density negative? I hope that this isn’t too complex a question.
Ra: I am Ra. The environment of your companion is that of the rock, the cave, the place of barrenness, for this is the density of wisdom. That which is needed may be thought and received. To this entity very little is necessary upon the physical, if you will, or space/time complex of distortions.

Such an entity spends its consciousness within the realms of time/space in an attempt to learn the ways of wisdom through the utmost use of the powers and resources of the self. Since the self is the Creator, the wisdom density provides many informative and fascinating experiences for the negatively polarized entity. In some respects one may see a more lucid early attachment to wisdom from those of negative polarity as the nexus of positions of consciousness upon which wisdom is laid is simpler.

The relationship of such an entity to fourth-density negative entities is one of the more powerful and the less powerful. The negative path posits slavery of the less powerful as a means of learning the desire to serve the self to the extent that the will is brought to bear. It is in this way that polarity is increased in the negative sense. Thus fourth-density entities are willing slaves of such a fifth-density entity, there being no doubt whatsoever of the relative power of each.

32.2 Questioner: Thank you very much. I will now continue with the material from day before yesterday. Our subject is how sexual polarity acts as a catalyst in evolution and how to best make use of this catalyst. Going back to that material, I will fill in a few gaps that we possibly don’t understand at this point too well.

Can you tell me the difference between orange- and yellow-ray activation? I am going to work up from red ray right on through the violet, and we covered red ray, so what’s the difference between orange- and yellow-ray activation?
Ra: I am Ra. The orange ray is that influence or vibratory pattern wherein the mind/body/spirit expresses its power on an individual basis. Thus power over individuals may be seen to be orange ray. This ray has been quite intense among your peoples on an individual basis. You may see in this ray the treating of other-selves as non-entities, slaves, or chattel, thus giving other-selves no status whatever.

The yellow ray is a focal and very powerful ray and concerns the entity in relation to, shall we say, groups, societies, or large numbers of mind/body/spirit complexes. This orange — we correct ourselves — this yellow-ray vibration is at the heart of bellicose actions in which one group of entities feel the necessity and right of dominating other groups of entities and bending their wills to the wills of the masters. The negative path, as you would call it, uses a combination of the yellow ray and the orange ray in its polarization patterns. These rays, used in a dedicated fashion, will bring about a contact with intelligent infinity. The usual nature of sexual interaction, if one is yellow or orange in primary vibratory patterns, is one of blockage and then insatiable hunger due to the blockage. When there are two selves vibrating in this area the potential for polarization through the sexual interaction is begun, one entity experiencing the pleasure of humiliation and slavery or bondage, the other experiencing the pleasure of mastery and control over another entity. In this way a sexual energy transfer of a negative polarity is experienced.

Ra never gave direct advice along the lines of "Don't do xyz" but did provide plenty of clues as to the machinations of each polarity.

Right now, higher 2D entities are in slavery and bondage because humans enjoy the taste of meat and dairy. We can extrapolate from that by pondering what Ra said about slavery and bondage.

...

[Matt1]

They are talking about things similar to Nazism, rather than the eating of animals if you ask me. Polarizing through Orange/Yellow Rays by treating other human beings as non entities.

[Monica]

I do feel that this is some what of a crusade against people who do not follow the same dietary type.

To think that this is about diet is to miss the point.

I accept Veganism, can you accept and believe that people who eat meat can still be compassionate and vibrating at a 4th density level ?

Have you ever read To Kill a Mockingbird? It's a classic literary account of racism in the 1940s or so. Back then, the whites thought that black people weren't capable of intelligent thought and weren't even really human. Surely, those white people were loving and compassionate towards other white people! They just thought it was normal to be racist.

It's the same now. It's speciesism instead of racism. It's selective compassion, with callous disregard for those considered to be inferior, whether that be black humans or animals.

[Monica]

They are talking about things similar to Nazism, rather than the eating of animals if you ask me. Polarizing through Orange/Yellow Rays by treating other human beings as non entities.

My goodness, is your speciesim so strong that you really can't see the parallel? Why do you automatically dismiss it just because it doesn't pertain to humans?



This is a classic case of speciesim...automatically focusing on the distinction between humans and animals...as though humans obviously matter and animals obviously don't.

Do you not see that this is exactly what was done to other humans, and is now being done to our younger other-selves?

...

[Monica]

I would also add that being a Vegan or Vegetarian doesn't necessary make you sto , as this quote with wiki shows.

No one ever said that it did.

...

[Matt1]

Its rather obvious, they are talking about using Orange and Yellow Rays to control other selves, entities that have self-awareness. 3rd Density.

[Monica]

I am not overly caught up in the Harvest aspect, however i do think its a useful one to discuss. If one does not need to go Vegan to graduate into 4th density and enjoys the eating of the meat, then why not just do it. Likewise i would happily incarnate again in 3rd density i don't have an issue being here.

You seem to be completely missing the point about what it means to polarize, what 4D STO is all about, and the reasons for making choices. If one makes choices just to polarize, then the opposite will actually occur - they will polarize to STS instead of STO, because their choice was based on serving SELF instead of others. 

I think all of these threads have displayed hypocrisy from the Vegan side and that is why i originally came into this thread to begin with, and the original thread. I don't believe Children have a natural instinct not to eat animals, if you give a Child something to eat and it tastes good i am pretty sure they're going to eat it lol. Unless they have been converted by parents into Veganism.

Not all children. Remember that children are just souls who've recently reincarnated. Some children naturally like to step on bugs and even torture animals. In fact, extreme cruelty displayed in childhood is a strong indicator that the child is likely to be a sociopath!

But many children do naturally feel compassion towards animals. Not all make the connection between animals and what's on their plate, but many do. The internet is full of videos of such children who refuse to eat meat, until their parents force them.

I was one such child. There are many. You can find them if you look for them or just ask some parents.

...

[Monica]

Its rather obvious, they are talking about using Orange and Yellow Rays to control other selves, entities that have self-awareness. 3rd Density.

Again, there's that speciesist demarcation. I've already covered that. Higher 2D entities DO have self-awareness!!! Aside from what Ra has said about them, it's obvious with simple observation.

...

[Matt1]

13.21 Questioner: Then how does the second density progress to the third?

Ra: I am Ra. The second density strives towards the  third density which is the density of self-consciousness or self-awareness. The striving takes place through the higher second-density forms who are invested by third-density beings with an identity to the extent that they become self-aware mind/body complexes, thus becoming mind/body/spirit complexes and entering third density, the first density of consciousness of spirit.

32.2 Questioner: Thank you very much. I will now continue with the material from day before yesterday. Our subject is how sexual polarity acts as a catalyst in evolution and how to best make use of this catalyst. Going back to that material, I will fill in a few gaps that we possibly don’t understand at this point too well.


Can you tell me the difference between orange- and yellow-ray activation? I am going to work up from red ray right on through the violet, and we covered red ray, so what’s the difference between orange- and yellow-ray activation?
Ra: I am Ra. The orange ray is that influence or vibratory pattern wherein the mind/body/spirit expresses its power on an individual basis. Thus power over individuals may be seen to be orange ray. This ray has been quite intense among your peoples on an individual basis. You may see in this ray the treating of other-selves as non-entities, slaves, or chattel, thus giving other-selves no status whatever.

The above you quoted, seems to be in relation to sexual energy rather than anything else, but also relates in the general to 3rd density self aware entities.

[Matt1]

I am not overly caught up in the Harvest aspect, however i do think its a useful one to discuss. If one does not need to go Vegan to graduate into 4th density and enjoys the eating of the meat, then why not just do it. Likewise i would happily incarnate again in 3rd density i don't have an issue being here.

You seem to be completely missing the point about what it means to polarize, what 4D STO is all about, and the reasons for making choices. If one makes choices just to polarize, then the opposite will actually occur - they will polarize to STS instead of STO, because their choice was based on serving SELF instead of others. 

I think all of these threads have displayed hypocrisy from the Vegan side and that is why i originally came into this thread to begin with, and the original thread. I don't believe Children have a natural instinct not to eat animals, if you give a Child something to eat and it tastes good i am pretty sure they're going to eat it lol. Unless they have been converted by parents into Veganism.

Not all children. Remember that children are just souls who've recently reincarnated. Some children naturally like to step on bugs and even torture animals. In fact, extreme cruelty displayed in childhood is a strong indicator that the child is likely to be a sociopath!

But many children do naturally feel compassion towards animals. Not all make the connection between animals and what's on their plate, but many do. The internet is full of videos of such children who refuse to eat meat, until their parents force them.

I was one such child. There are many. You can find them if you look for them or just ask some parents.

...

I am not missing the point, what you mean is i do not agree with your view. Nothing else to it than that. Sure some Children have greater past life experiences than others i will agree with you on that.

[Matt1]

I don't consider this to be a speciesist view, as i do take into the understanding the values and rights to animals. Nobody is talking about torturing or harming animals here. The higher second density animals that are moving towards self awareness are the domesticated house pets.

[Monica]

I am not missing the point, what you mean is i do not agree with your view.

No, I mean you are missing the point, since you keep talking about diet. It's not about diet.

...

[Diana]

Okay, it doesn't make more sense from my perspective. I don't think either have any form of contract or agreement to be consumed per se however they are involved in the conditions of the vibration of their density. There are conditions that are involved with incarnation that have been agreed to.

However, I would make the point that as I understand it the entity does not choose consciously the elements of its incarnation but rather lives are organized by guardians whom attempt to situate them so they can make the progression from second to third density.

So, it then seems a little strange to me that such guardians would allow and create so many second density lives under conditions of suffering, plant and animal alike. I realized however that there were density laws that had to be fulfilled. For example, they can't just stop incarnating animals so that no more bodies that experience suffering can be created because there are planetary karmic patterns at play which tie them in to a particular theme or leitmotif, as Ra might say, of experience. In this way, I see the planet as exploring itself.

I respect your perspective above and the study behind it. I don't like the idea that "guardians" are choosing for us or for anything. That doesn't mean its not true. To speak to what the guardians might or might not do: animal and plant life suffers to the extent it does because we humans are doing it to them. Perhaps the guardians didn't foresee that and don't know what to do about it. It's chaos theory all over the place here.

I understand your suppositions above, and especially about the planet exploring itself. But none of this changes that fact that I will not participate in obvious suffering. This is where I think we don't align. What I see as obvious is not seen the same way by you. If you know me at all from this forum, you will know that I have repeatedly said "wrong" and "right" have no relevance outside of human judgment, so I am not saying I am right and you are wrong.

I really do see what you are saying, it's just that my own experience has informed me differently as to the appropriate position to approach from. I see plants and animals as equal, I see both as having potential and capability for higher being, and I see it that I have to take energy in to this body for it to operate in this density. I don't think anything is automatically designated 'food', I think that is a description of something much more basic.

I do not view my fellow selves as food, the food is the energy. This has been an increasing issue for me lately and it is worrying my girlfriend because I am having a hard time eating. I have no appetites. However when I do crave it is almost always for meats, salts, proteins (I don't feel at all satisfied by just nuts) and a huge wave of guilt because I had somehow built it in to my philosophy that that was fundamentally evil. I am realizing it is functional.

I have a lot of issues with vital energy for the last bit of time as I have seemingly attempted to 'dehumanise' myself to be more accepted in the eyes of apparent compassion. I'm beginning to see however that I've been having an enormous repression within myself because of these rules and expectations I have had for myself that I, and this is absolutely key to my point, do NOT actually believe in in my heart.

I realized that I have been so heavily swayed by others' justifications that I have constantly been trying to suppress what I actually feel is true and natural. 

I see your logic, I see your love and compassion, I assure you, I see from your eyes, but I ask, can you see from mine?

I think you are evolving and questioning and becoming more consciously aware of the choices you make, in deeper ways that include more than what we normally perceive. You are agonizing over things because apparently that is our lot as we grow, but it doesn't follow that we have to go through pain—I think we do it to ourselves. I feel for you, as I have these conflicts with myself almost on a daily basis. I read once about an ET society who had visited us and described their culture (and it's irrelevant whether or not it's true); and that they used a mild form of telekinesis when walking so as not to cause harm to the grass (which highlighted for me that I keep so much at bay all the time to just be here). 

I have found that being true to yourself can be complicated. Some of the things you have been describing here about balancing yourself are similar to what I have been trying to do, so I do understand. If you feel you need those foods—for whatever reason—then it is solely your choice and your body and your integrity you are honoring.

It has been proven that consuming 1/3 less than the minimum calories thought necessary to sustain life actually extends life significantly. So I wouldn't worry too much about not eating. If you could choke down a green drink every day it would provide you with concentrated nutrition. 

Qlin (channeled by a friend of mine and with whom I have a longstanding relationship) always says to follow your "knowing." He says to get out of your mind and your emotions and connect with your knowing. I know what he means. There are moments when we make a decision and it feels like a key has turned a lock, it just feels right and we are filled with a knowing that yes, this is it.

[Matt1]

I am not talking about diet, i am talking about self awareness.

[AnthroHeart]

Don't wolves hunt cows? That sounds like torture to be torn apart by them while you're still alive.

[Monica]

I don't consider this to be a speciesist view, as i do take into the understanding the values and rights to animals. Nobody is talking about torturing or harming animals here. The higher second density animals that are moving towards self awareness are the domesticated house pets.

There is absolutely No distinction between house pets and farm animals. Studies show that farm animals display the very same intelligence and complex emotions, even more so in some cases. Plus, people eat different animals in different parts of the world. Here in the US, pigs are considered 'farm animals' and dogs and cats pets, yet some people here have pigs as pets, and in China they eat dogs and cats. There simply isn't the convenient species distinction, as so many like to think.

[Monica]

Don't wolves hunt cows? That sounds like torture to be torn apart by them while you're still alive.

On the one hand, people are arguing that animals don't deserve our consideration and compassion because they aren't sentient yet. On the other hand, they argue that it's ok for humans to behave like animals; ie., since animals do it, then we can too.

We can't have it both ways. If we're more highly evolved than 2D entities, then the fact that 2D entities kill one another doesn't mean that we should too.

Plus, animals only kill for survival. That is a key difference. Humans do it because...they like the taste of bacon!

...

[Monica]

I am not talking about diet, i am talking about self awareness.

You have mentioned the words diet and eating several times which seemed to imply that it's just a 'personal preference' and doesn't affect other entities.

...

[Matt1]

I am not talking about diet, i am talking about self awareness.

You have mentioned the words diet and eating several times which seemed to imply that it's just a 'personal preference' and doesn't affect other entities.

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I have used the word diet because its fairly difficult not to discuss diet in context like this , however that hasn't been my point at all. Its simply been about self awareness as i have already stated.

[Diana]

I don't consider this to be a speciesist view, as i do take into the understanding the values and rights to animals. Nobody is talking about torturing or harming animals here. The higher second density animals that are moving towards self awareness are the domesticated house pets.

I AM talking about torturing and harming animals. 

And to me, all life is sacred. As Jade and Monica pointed out, there is no demarcation line between animals worthy of our compassion and animals who are not. So the choice has to be made: what life do I take to sustain my physical vehicle. There are many things to consider, which is why threads like this exist.

Anyone who values human life over other life, is in my opinion, displaying speciesism. I do realize that the subject matter is not simple, however.

[Monica]

Nobody is talking about torturing or harming animals here.

Why not? It's impossible to eat meat without harming animals, and it's impossible to eat out at restaurants or buy meat from grocery stores without not only harming animals, but torturing them as well, because that is how meat is produced in the US, as well as other parts of the world.

ALL meat harms animals! And most commercially-produced meat and dairy torture them as well.

That inconvenient fact cannot be separated from the discussion.

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[Minyatur]

I don't consider this to be a speciesist view, as i do take into the understanding the values and rights to animals. Nobody is talking about torturing or harming animals here. The higher second density animals that are moving towards self awareness are the domesticated house pets.

I AM talking about torturing and harming animals. 

And to me, all life is sacred. As Jade and Monica pointed out, there is no demarcation line between animals worthy of our compassion and animals who are not. So the choice has to be made: what life do I take to sustain my physical vehicle. There are many things to consider, which is why threads like this exist.

Anyone who values human life over other life, is in my opinion, displaying speciesism. I do realize that the subject matter is not simple, however.

From what I observed people are usually more disturbed at violence toward dogs and cats than humans, so it's all very relative.

Personally I wouldn't hunt for myself, but whether I eat meat or not while varying the sources and eating as little as I do eat currently, I have very huge serious doubts that me going vegan would save the life of a single animal. The market isn't made to be affected by my personal consumption.

With that said, my point is that going vegan or not won't matter unless your goal is to be on a crusade to convert others, which would definitely not be my case even as a vegan. 

So there's trauma and negative energies within the meat? Fine i'll take it upon myself and transmute it along with the rest of my inner darkness and take what has already been sacrified with grattitude and compassion for the path that was taken by the said animal.

Honnestly if this planet would turn vegan overnight, I wouldn't mind it. I just think it's not the only aspect that needs focus to be worked on.

[Monica]

I replied to your original post and missed your edits. So I just now read all this.

Okay, it doesn't make more sense from my perspective. I don't think either have any form of contract or agreement to be consumed per se however they are involved in the conditions of the vibration of their density. There are conditions that are involved with incarnation that have been agreed to.

We did agree to the conditions. But the conditions exist for a reason: to provide a stage upon which 3D entities can experience catalyst and polarize, which is the purpose of 3D.

The fact that we agreed to interact with STS entities doesn't mean that we should behave like them. That is, if we wish to polarize STO.

However, I would make the point that as I understand it the entity does not choose consciously the elements of its incarnation but rather lives are organized by guardians whom attempt to situate them so they can make the progression from second to third density.

As I recall, this is true even for many 3D humans, so I don't see that as telling us much.

So, it then seems a little strange to me that such guardians would allow and create so many second density lives under conditions of suffering, plant and animal alike.

I agree, and I don't have an answer for that. I intend to ask them why they did that. My speculation is that those of us who are hearing the calls of the suffering entities have taken on the task of bringing it to the attention of those who aren't hearing it (or who are ignoring the calls), as well as reporting back to our elders once we leave this place. I speculate that it's part of the experiment of a veiled planet, and it has gone dreadfully awry.

If my speculation is correct, then continuing to knowingly support this system isn't acceptable.

I see plants and animals as equal, I see both as having potential and capability for higher being

A 10-year-old child and a newborn baby both have the potential and capability for learning to read. But, the 10-year-old child has made more progress in that direction.

I do not view my fellow selves as food, the food is the energy. This has been an increasing issue for me lately and it is worrying my girlfriend because I am having a hard time eating. I have no appetites. However when I do crave it is almost always for meats, salts, proteins (I don't feel at all satisfied by just nuts) and a huge wave of guilt because I had somehow built it in to my philosophy that that was fundamentally evil. I am realizing it is functional.

I have a lot of issues with vital energy for the last bit of time as I have seemingly attempted to 'dehumanise' myself to be more accepted in the eyes of apparent compassion. I'm beginning to see however that I've been having an enormous repression within myself because of these rules and expectations I have had for myself that I, and this is absolutely key to my point, do NOT actually believe in in my heart.

I realized that I have been so heavily swayed by others' justifications that I have constantly been trying to suppress what I actually feel is true and natural.

First of all, I just felt a great big wave of compassion for you as I read that!      

Are you saying that you are feeling guilt when you eat anything at all? Even plants? Or only meat?

If you feel guilt when you eat anything at all, then may I suggest that it might be stemming from the belief that plants and animals are exactly the same. Perhaps, if you might entertain the notion that this is erroneous, it could free you from this unnecessary guilt.

We must eat something while we're here. There are stories about people becoming breatharians and they even provide a system for doing so: Sungazing. There is some controversy about that so I don't know if the stories are all true or not, but there at least a few documented cases of people who have successfully ceased eating. They get all their nourishment from pure Light, from the Sun.

Plants just condense that Light into nutrients, so eating plants is eating Light vicariously. Notice how the chakra colors are found in plants! Plants are high-vibration food, but not as high as just consuming Light directly!

I find the idea of being a Breatharian intriguing, and I have dabbled a bit with Sungazing. But I have never stuck with it long enough to feel its reported benefits. It is something I will likely try again sometime, but I admit I'm not quite ready for that yet.

In the meantime, since the human body must eat something, then eating plants is closer to consuming light than eating dead animals. The Light from the Sun has long since departed the dead, grey carcass called meat that is bought wrapped in plastic from the grocery store.

There's a difference between healthy remorse and unhealthy guilt. Healthy remorse prods us to examine our choices, learn from them, make amends if appropriate, and hopefully make better choices in the future. Whereas, unhealthy guilt comes from staying stuck in remorse without ever learning from the situation. Healthy remorse responds to catalyst; unhealthy guilt stays stuck without ever utilizing the catalyst.

Are you feeling healthy remorse because you know how to improve your choices but aren't, or is it unhealthy guilt because you don't really know how to make dietary choices without harming any entities at all, and, since you believe that plants and animals are equally harmed, yet you must eat something, this is keeping you stuck?

Unless you feel ready to become a Breatharian, then you simply must eat something. I invite you to consider re-examining your beliefs that eating plants is the same as eating animals. Should you modify that belief, it could free you from this unnecessary guilt.

Or maybe your mission in this life is to become a Breatharian, and then teach all of us!  

In any case, staying stuck doesn't seem to be working well, from what you say. The design of this planet is difficult to work with. The only reference to diet from Ra, in regards to diet for humans in general, is this one:

40.14 Questioner: In dietary matters, what would be the foods that one would include and what would be the foods that one would exclude in a general way for the most or the greatest care of one’s bodily complex?
Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit. Thus it is the care and respect for the self that is the true thing of importance. In this light we may iterate the basic information given for this instrument’s diet. The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products. These are those substances showing respect for the self. In addition, though this has not been mentioned, for this instrument is not in need of purification, those entities in need of purging the self of a poison thought-form or emotion complex do well to take care in following a program of careful fasting until the destructive thought-form has been purged analogously with the by-products of ridding the physical vehicle of excess material. Again you see the value not to the body complex but used as a link for the mind and spirit. Thus self reveals self to self.

Ra clearly did say that plants foods are acceptable. This supports my case that there is indeed a difference between plants and animals. Else, why didn't Ra give any cautions about eating plants?

Ra did give a caution about eating animal products: to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism

Only you can decide if your consumption of animal products is truly necessary for your individual metabolism. We know that, biologically, the human body doesn't need animal products. The science is quite clear on that. It does, however, require nutrients found in plants. There are many nutrients Not found in animal products, but are found in plants, that are necessary for health. This is a clue!

At the same time, it's clear that humans are in various stages of transitioning away from eating animals and towards the consumption of plants only, with the ultimate goal in the higher densities of consuming only nectar, or only Light. A handful of humans are even doing that now, while in the 3D vehicle.

Ra gave us a little bit of wiggle-room with their statement to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism. Most of the people arguing in favor of eating meat say it's totally ok, so are they eating it out of true necessity while transitioning, or are they eating it because they like the taste of bacon?

In your case, from what you say, it sounds like you aren't eating enough foods in general, and if that's the case, then you probably aren't getting enough calories and nutrients. When the body gets depleted, it will reach for the easiest thing to quickly restore vital energy. Meat is concentrated; hence your body tells you to eat meat. That makes perfect sense to me.

My suggestion would be to consider the possibility that allowing yourself to indulge in more plant foods might be preferable to denying your body's needs, which then results in craving meat. Cravings are usually indications of deficiency, and they often mask the real deficiency. (For example, a craving for soda pop does Not indicate a deficiency in sugar and artificial flavorings!)

So your body might actually be trying to tell you that you're missing some nutrients, and the solution isn't necessarily to give in to the craving, while ignoring the underlying cause of the craving.

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[Monica]

I have very huge serious doubts that me going vegan would save the life of a single animal.

It wouldn't. But, collectively, the more people who go vegan, the more the market IS affected. It's already happening. 

Meat Consumption Plummeting

But that’s changing, and considering the fairly steady climb in meat consumption over the last half-century, you might say the numbers are plummeting. The department of agriculture projects that our meat and poultry consumption will fall again this year, to about 12.2 percent less in 2012 than it was in 2007. Beef consumption has been in decline for about 20 years; the drop in chicken is even more dramatic, over the last five years or so; pork also has been steadily slipping for about five years.

Simple supply-and-demand dictates that the more the market declines, the fewer animals will be killed to meet the demand. Of course, the population is also increasing, so the net result is that more animals are still being killed. But per capita, meat consumption is way less.

With that said, my point is that going vegan or not won't matter unless your goal is to be on a crusade to convert others, which would definitely not be my case even as a vegan. 

The goal isn't to convert anyone to anything. The goal is to answer the call of the 2D entities.

So there's trauma and negative energies within the meat? Fine i'll take it upon myself and transmute it along with the rest of my inner darkness

That will serve you, but it won't serve the animal.

and take what has already been sacrified with grattitude and compassion for the path that was taken by the said animal.

The animals didn't sacrifice themselves. They are being killed against their will. That isn't a sacrifice because it wasn't done willingly.

Honnestly if this planet would turn vegan overnight, I wouldn't mind it. I just think it's not the only aspect that needs focus to be worked on.

Of course it's Not the only issue that needs to be worked on. But it is a very big issue, one of the biggest issues that affects us all.

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